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Hey, that mini is still cool! It is one that I never got for my SWs though. :(
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I was at GWHQ today, picking up Vargard Obyron and a Triach Stalker.
I must say that the staff member there who i dealt with was one of the best i have had contact with. He checked over Obyron after i had asked for it to be opened to see the front of the model. The body was a perfect cast however the staff member picked up on the poor detail on the staff which i had missed by being focused on the body.
He then grabed all the blisters of the peg and found me a perfect model, he then removed the previous ones from sale ( my initial one and 2 others ) No bubbles, great detail and no mold lines.
an interesting tit bit came up as we were talking, turns out any defective models returned to the store are melted down and recast.
Polystyrene can be ground down and re-used. Resins can't... they're completely the wrong sort of plastic.
Unless they grind up the defective resin models and use the powder for filler in future resin castings. FW would be more likely to use the filler for their larger pieces. I have no idea whether this is actually done or not, but it is possible.
Glass beads are used in resin castings to make them lighter and powdered stone is used to make castings look and weigh more like marble.
I have seen a few pics from this newest round of Necron models, and many of casts seem markedly better than previous finecast efforts. There were still a few issues, but overall, at least of the reviews I saw, they seemed to have taken care of the airbubble issue, but hadn't completely licked issues related to mold damage and warping (on one very twisty staff out of 5 or 6).
I am not sold yet, but at the same time I am willing to be hopeful that maybe things are looking up!
I am just getting back into warhammer and 40k after 15 years off. Unfortunately I no longer own any miniatures, and would have to start out purchasing everything.
Should I just wait a while longer and see if the casting issues are taken care of, or are the problems actually few and far between?
We no longer have a Games Workshop store in Connecticut, and would have to travel, the closest one being 120 miles away in New York City, to be able to open and inspect each piece.
No, the problems are not rare. And sorry, but waiting won't really see any change other than the price going up.
You'll be needing to play the mail-out replacement game; so you'll have to take good quality photos of the flawed pieces you get for replacements to be sent out. Avoid Finecast if you can, but if you really need a model that's in it, be prepared to have to work for it a bit (in terms of sending emails / making calls). Do NOT go driving to to store repeatedly for replacements.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/19 08:07:30
winterdyne wrote:No, the problems are not rare. And sorry, but waiting won't really see any change other than the price going up.
You'll be needing to play the mail-out replacement game; so you'll have to take good quality photos of the flawed pieces you get for replacements to be sent out. Avoid Finecast if you can, but if you really need a model that's in it, be prepared to have to work for it a bit (in terms of sending emails / making calls). Do NOT go driving to to store repeatedly for replacements.
I really am not sure I want to have to play games with GWS just to get a quality product. I work hard for my money and I have better things to do with my time than take pictures, e-mail, get another crappy product, repeat process until quality product arrives...
After reading this thread, and doing some research, I think I will just skip out on GWS, besides which, I think I may have found an alternative miniatures company in Massachusets that looks promising.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/19 10:08:10
TheWookalarKing wrote:I am just getting back into warhammer and 40k after 15 years off. Unfortunately I no longer own any miniatures, and would have to start out purchasing everything.
Should I just wait a while longer and see if the casting issues are taken care of, or are the problems actually few and far between?
We no longer have a Games Workshop store in Connecticut, and would have to travel, the closest one being 120 miles away in New York City, to be able to open and inspect each piece.
I would be looking on eBay for metal versions of the figures you need...
TheWookalarKing wrote:I am just getting back into warhammer and 40k after 15 years off. Unfortunately I no longer own any miniatures, and would have to start out purchasing everything.
Should I just wait a while longer and see if the casting issues are taken care of, or are the problems actually few and far between?
We no longer have a Games Workshop store in Connecticut, and would have to travel, the closest one being 120 miles away in New York City, to be able to open and inspect each piece.
bartertown, dakkadakka trading forums, ebay, kijiji, craigs list. These will be your best friends. Don't waste money on the resin stuff. I would send a letter to GW if i were you saying you've done your research, getting back into the hobby, but refuse to pay for a product with such a bad reputation, especially when the company is ignoring that reputation.
15 successful trades as a buyer;
16 successful trades as a seller;
To glimpse the future, you must look to the past and understand it. Names may change, but human behavior repeats itself. Prophetic insight is nothing more than profound hindsight.
It doesn't matter how bloody far the apple falls from the tree. If the apple fell off of a Granny Smith, that apple is going to grow into a Granny bloody Smith. The only difference is whether that apple grows in the shade of the tree it fell from.
General question not aimed at any one manufacturer, ok? Has resin been elevated to saviour of the gaming world and mankind? Sometimes the way people talk about it makes it seem like all other materials should just give up and go home! After working with it for 14 years I've got to say that its nothing special. It really isn't. If used correctly it gives good results but many manufacturers seem to see it as a way to print money. Its no use producing great looking models if you cost them at a way too high level. I'm sure if you asked manufacturers would they;
1) Sell one or two models per order regularly or;
2) Sell quite a few models per order regularly
Unless they recieved a major blow to the back of the head they'd opt for the 2nd choice.
An example. Scibor models are good well designed/detailed models. Now some people say 'Oh they are meant as characters/leaders for your armies'. Fine. But I'm sure Scibor would prefer people to buy whole armies rather than a sole figure. Sadly their prices are more prohibitive than the GW (sorry guys, I do like your stuff but can't afford it).
When it comes to resin, we seem to be too forgiving when it comes to quality and to be honest I'm baffled by this. Figures are now purely due to cost no longer 'just' a figure but are now luxury items; if they are offered at high cost, the quality must match this price tag also; no excuses should be made in support of defective product regardless of who is producing them.
Slipstream wrote: I'm sure if you asked manufacturers would they;
1) Sell one or two models per order regularly or;
2) Sell quite a few models per order regularly
Unless they recieved a major blow to the back of the head they'd opt for the 2nd choice.
That actually depends entirely on their business model. Selling a dozen models for $10 is great... but selling one model for $10 is less work and less expense.
Lower price may mean more sales, but that doesn't automatically equate to more profit.
I Second that! They imp are easyer to wok with and cause there heavy they kinda stand out meanig that thy have something specail about them if that makes sence?
The fact this thread still exists makes me really sad. I wanted to buy the Vargard and Nemesor, but held off until I actually go to a Gee-Dubs, which is by Chicago. It's about 2 hours away and as a result this will only be my second trip there ever. I wish I could just order them mailorder when they went on pre-order; but I just don't want to deal with the whole hassle that appears likely with this product if you buy it sight-unseen.
I'm sure this thread will pick up steam as the May price increases roll in. I mean, have you seen the price increases on some of the Fantasy Finecast models coming in? 67% increase on some.
WH40K Death Guard 5100 pts.
Daemons 3000 pts.
DT:70+S++G+M-B-I--Pw40K90-D++A++/eWD?R++T(D)DM+
28 successful trades in the Dakka Swap Shop! Check out my latest auction here!
The fact this thread still exists makes me really sad. I wanted to buy the Vargard and Nemesor, but held off until I actually go to a Gee-Dubs, which is by Chicago. It's about 2 hours away and as a result this will only be my second trip there ever. I wish I could just order them mailorder when they went on pre-order; but I just don't want to deal with the whole hassle that appears likely with this product if you buy it sight-unseen.
I'm sure this thread will pick up steam as the May price increases roll in. I mean, have you seen the price increases on some of the Fantasy Finecast models coming in? 67% increase on some.
It's because they have more overhead with the -Edited by insaniak. Do not try to circumvent the language filter. It's there for a reason. - models. They have to pay the multiple customer reps that will continue to help you until you receive an acceptable product. They'll have to cover shipping to each time. They'll have to cover shipping back to them if they want it back. There's the packaging and handling for each model. The list is actually quite long, and to cover the expenses of their epic failure of a product, you the customer will pay the price.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/22 23:21:59
I'm sure this thread will pick up steam as the May price increases roll in. I mean, have you seen the price increases on some of the Fantasy Finecast models coming in? 67% increase on some.
It's because they have more overhead with the -deleted- models. They have to pay the multiple customer reps that will continue to help you until you receive an acceptable product. They'll have to cover shipping to each time. They'll have to cover shipping back to them if they want it back. There's the packaging and handling for each model. The list is actually quite long, and to cover the expenses of their epic failure of a product, you the customer will pay the price.
No, I won't! Selling my last army now, and I wash my hands of GW.
Need some Eldar?! Check out my sig.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/22 23:22:36
WH40K Death Guard 5100 pts.
Daemons 3000 pts.
DT:70+S++G+M-B-I--Pw40K90-D++A++/eWD?R++T(D)DM+
28 successful trades in the Dakka Swap Shop! Check out my latest auction here!
HAZZER wrote:I Second that! They imp are easyer to wok with and cause there heavy they kinda stand out meanig that thy have something specail about them if that makes sence?
Have you been drinking by any chance HAZZER? Because that is probably the most spelling mistakes I've seen in one sentence from someone with a union flag by their name
I agree with what I think you're saying, though. I prefer metal to finecast. I like the weight of the model. Sure it's harder to put together some of the time, though I found my metal Hydra easier to put together than the finecast one. On the FC one the numbers on the sprue for the heads were destroyed by excess resin so I ended up comparing heads with my assembled and painted metal one to see which head went where. So much for more detail in finecast
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/22 22:24:54
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
puma713 wrote:
I'm sure this thread will pick up steam as the May price increases roll in. I mean, have you seen the price increases on some of the Fantasy Finecast models coming in? 67% increase on some.
And then probably again in the summer as people who are getting back into the game with the new edition (like I did with 5th after skipping 4th) discover the unexpected surprises of GW switching to resin like gas bubbles and extra flash on details.
Games Workshop 6221 E Holmes Road Memphis, TN USA 38141
Dear sir or madam,
RE: - Return of two boxes of defective Chaos Space Marine Raptors File No.: - unknown --------------------------------- I write to you with regard to the above noted matter, pursuant to conversation with your service agents. To say the least, I am deeply dissatisfied with your product and your companies conduct with regard to this matter. I—and my wallet—have been frustrated by your company’s pricing and market policies, though I have always understood your imperative to remain competitive, yield dividends to investors and protect your intellectual product and continued to support your company. However, the quality of the Finecast line of product has done more damage to my willingness to support your company than any of your company’s changes or policies over the past ten years.
After the change from metal to resin was initiated by your company, I waited for your customers to report on the quality of the product before committing to any further purchases of any product produced by your company. Between the price increase and the scathing review of the quality of the initial Finecast products, I did not make any purchases, expecting that over time such issues would be resolved. The initial reports seemed fairly hopeful given the ease with which a replacement was obtained, and that flaws can be expected with the first batch. After a year on the market, and repeated reports of defective products in addition to repeated requests for replacements, I anticipated that the upcoming Finecast releases would resolve the issues reported in previous releases and that the issues present in previous editions would be resolved as well. I perused multiple forums on the internet and conducted my research as to how the issues around Finecast were proceeding. Having found no definitive answers (given that it’s granted that complaints are made more often and more loudly than praise), I proceeded on a leap of faith—and a steep discount—to purchase the Finecast Raptors in order to replace the metal versions of the same models I already had in my possession.
To say the least, I am deeply disappointed. This was my first ever purchase of your Finecast product and was disappointed by the garage-grade quality of the casts. Referring you your website, the description of Citadel Finecast provides the following:
“Miniatures bearing this logo are part of the Citadel Finecast range. All citadel models are incredibly detailed, high-quality resin kits.”
After having taken the liberty of comparing the new resin product against its metal predecessor, I found no difference in the quality of detail which your advertising campaign was predicated on. Whether the poor quality of the cast of the resin has anything to do with this, I am unsure, but on comparing the deformities, two boxes of resin models sold by your company featured more problems than I have ever experienced in my lifetime’s purchases of metal products from your company. Further comparisons also highlighted frustration surrounding the placement of the gates on the resin models. I had no qualms or problems with removing flash from metal or plastic models, but it is readily apparent that I can expect to expend more time and effort in cleaning and preparing the resin models than any plastic counterparts manufactured by your company.
When a company advertises that the product it produces is high-quality, I fully expect that the item I purchase will be in as-advertised conditions. I have purchased resin products from a number of your competitors on numerous occasions, many of which were garage-based operations, and never observed the scope of defects in the material or the models produced by those companies as can be observed in your product.
My first experience in purchasing resin products from your company has me concerned first that quality control is absent and second that your company has no intention of rectifying or acknowledging any issues with your line of products. I expect that when I purchase your product, I will not be required to expend any effort to restore the product to as-advertised condition. I accept that flash and mould lines need to be removed, but filing gaps, bending an unyielding substance back into shape and sculpting missing details onto the model do not strike me as hallmarks of a high quality product. I do not find it acceptable that at $55 CAD per box, and with the advertising campaign behind the Citadel Finecast line of product that bubbles, warping and miscasting of a model’s components is normal. If your company was based out of a garage, the quality evidenced in the above-noted boxes I purchased would be expected. Given that your company has been on the market for over twenty five years and enjoys a presence on every continent and pre-eminence in the world of miniature war gaming, the fact that I am not able to produce one box that satisfies your advertising standards from the two boxes I purchased, the quality control evidenced by my purchase, and the public relations disaster your company apparently insists on ignoring, on web forums is abysmal. By extension, given that the models and components in both boxes showed problems in the same places, as for instance on the inside rims of the jump-packs, the same suggests much to be desired by your casting process.
As a comparison, the resin products from Privateer Press show a higher degree of quality, made from a sturdier material, with infrequent miscasts. I have even purchased resin products from garage operations that featured fewer miscasts than the above-noted Citadel Finecast products. Further, I feel vindicated in the fact that over the past twelve months, all of the products I have purchased—speaking specifically with regard to those that have received the Finecast treatment—I have only ever purchased the metal variants second hand. With the public history of Citadel Finecast products, the only fact that enticed me to purchase the above-noted product was a steep discount from Miniwargaming, and a leap of faith that your company had had sufficient time to resolve the issues surrounding the casting process.
Pursuant to calls to your customer service agents, I am returning the defective products for replacement as instructed, however, for the reasons outlined above as well as my conversations with your other customers that have experienced the same issues with the Citadel Finecast line of products—who have in some cases exchanged defective models as many as seven times in the case of the limited edition models released for the 25th anniversary of Warhammer 40’000—I will accept a replacement only once. I refuse to invest any more time and effort to receive the product I paid for, given especially that I need to take time out of my work day to deal with this problem. I take this opportunity to advise you that if the replacements do not satisfy an acceptable standard of quality, I will be demanding a full refund of $75.08 CAD. For your benefit and ease of reference with regard to this file, I enclose a copy of the invoice. Lastly, I will also discontinue all future purchases from your company and its subsidiaries until your line of Citadel Finecast products matches, at the very least, the standards established by your plastic kits and the market.
I await your response and replacements, and remain,
Yours truly,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Encl.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/22 23:23:41
15 successful trades as a buyer;
16 successful trades as a seller;
To glimpse the future, you must look to the past and understand it. Names may change, but human behavior repeats itself. Prophetic insight is nothing more than profound hindsight.
It doesn't matter how bloody far the apple falls from the tree. If the apple fell off of a Granny Smith, that apple is going to grow into a Granny bloody Smith. The only difference is whether that apple grows in the shade of the tree it fell from.
Just bought the Watcher in the Water, it's perfect except for two parts, the holes that the tentacles go into are completely closed besides one, and the shell is slightly misfitting.
But since it's resin not metal the tentacles shouldn't be hard to glue on, and it'll probably only take a tiny amount of greenstuff to fill the holes
Grimstonefire wrote:I am feeling quite confident that by this time next year I will be holding a new CD model in my hand (07/07/10). Someone can sig that if they want.
That's a pretty strong letter poda_t. Unfortunately, for everyone who cares about getting a decent quality cast, you get a comment like this (and I kid you not, this is quoted directly from another thread elsewhere on Dakka)
Anyhow, the fact is, yes, it was miscast and yes I kept it. That was my choice and I stand by it.
The policy makers within GW might argue that you represent an increasingly minor demographic of the GW customer base - the conscientious consumer. For the other 95% of purchasers who take home models missing detail or pitted, who cares? They probably won't even be painted anyway, and the shoddy workmanship will go un-noticed. Or, presumably like the comment above, they are bought by people who are too young to understand the concept of money/value, and so keep it knowingly.
More people if they have a complaint should do as poda-t has done.
A firmly worded letter that gets your point across without resorting to insults or rants. emails are for the most part not effective, to easily lost in sheer bulk of the mails companies get.
Pacific wrote:That's a pretty strong letter poda_t. Unfortunately, for everyone who cares about getting a decent quality cast, you get a comment like this (and I kid you not, this is quoted directly from another thread elsewhere on Dakka)
Anyhow, the fact is, yes, it was miscast and yes I kept it. That was my choice and I stand by it.
The policy makers within GW might argue that you represent an increasingly minor demographic of the GW customer base - the conscientious consumer. For the other 95% of purchasers who take home models missing detail or pitted, who cares? They probably won't even be painted anyway, and the shoddy workmanship will go un-noticed. Or, presumably like the comment above, they are bought by people who are too young to understand the concept of money/value, and so keep it knowingly.
if you keep feeding people feces and tell them its gourmet chocolate, some of them will start to believe it. People say they are into miniature wargaming and start and stop the breadth and depth of their experience only to the warhammer hobby. These people will as a given fact take what GW sells them as fact. If anyone has gone beyond the GW market, they will immediately notice that GW is pulling some sort of interesting antics. I've encountered a few traders online that have bought gak from GW, and instead of bother with it, they're just selling it off at a steep discount to get rid of it and forget the hassle.
I mean what I said in my letter. My purchases have been declining but if they can't do their job, I hear privateer press, wyrd miniatures, defiance games, scibor and chapterhouse all want my money. Besides, some people care, some don't. If someone wants to use my letter as a base, theyre welcome to it. Not everyone is upset one way or the other, and the poster you referenced could have a model in great condition. The blisters are actually by and large in amazing condition if you inspect them in-store. It's the bloody boxed sets that are always a gamble.
In any case, I appreciate and understand the advantage of resin. The problem is that GW took a mono-pose model and cast it in resin, rather than breaking it up to be customisable like the plastic sets which is really what they should have done. If GW had done that, they could have charged $2 extra and people would still be raving for it because its more usable more accessible bits.So in that regard, GW mucked up in the desgin, not just in the execution.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/23 04:58:17
15 successful trades as a buyer;
16 successful trades as a seller;
To glimpse the future, you must look to the past and understand it. Names may change, but human behavior repeats itself. Prophetic insight is nothing more than profound hindsight.
It doesn't matter how bloody far the apple falls from the tree. If the apple fell off of a Granny Smith, that apple is going to grow into a Granny bloody Smith. The only difference is whether that apple grows in the shade of the tree it fell from.
poda_t wrote:if you keep feeding people feces and tell them its gourmet chocolate, some of them will start to believe it.
Its true. If people didn't use finecost and failcast to counter finecast's failure, GW would still be using that term.
But as we can see on the website, they reverted to using "finely casted resin" instead of finecast.
Khador 75p
Menoth 35p
Circle 25p
Legion 25p 
Death Guard 5100 pts.
Daemons 3000 pts.
