Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

LunaHound wrote:

poda_t wrote:if you keep feeding people feces and tell them its gourmet chocolate, some of them will start to believe it.

Its true. If people didn't use finecost and failcast to counter finecast's failure, GW would still be using that term.
But as we can see on the website, they reverted to using "finely casted resin" instead of finecast.

Whinning helps.

mmm.... whining doesn't help. How long have we been whining about incessant price increases to the point where recreational use of narcotic is less financially ruinous than pursuing the GW hobby?

LunaHound wrote:Its true. If people didn't use finecost and failcast to counter finecast's failure, GW would still be using that term.
But as we can see on the website, they reverted to using "finely casted resin" instead of finecast.

Whinning helps.

The what now? Ignoring the fact that 'Fine'cast is still quite prominently branded as 'Finecast'... How does GW describing 'Fine'cast as 'finely cast resin' help anything?

insaniak wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Its true. If people didn't use finecost and failcast to counter finecast's failure, GW would still be using that term.
But as we can see on the website, they reverted to using "finely casted resin" instead of finecast.

Whinning helps.

The what now? Ignoring the fact that 'Fine'cast is still quite prominently branded as 'Finecast'... How does GW describing 'Fine'cast as 'finely cast resin' help anything?

Because there was a brief period ( obviously gone now ) where GW doesnt use the pop up flash


Automatically Appended Next Post:

poda_t wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

poda_t wrote:if you keep feeding people feces and tell them its gourmet chocolate, some of them will start to believe it.

Its true. If people didn't use finecost and failcast to counter finecast's failure, GW would still be using that term.
But as we can see on the website, they reverted to using "finely casted resin" instead of finecast.

Whinning helps.

mmm.... whining doesn't help. How long have we been whining about incessant price increases to the point where recreational use of narcotic is less financially ruinous than pursuing the GW hobby?

Whining doesn't solve all problems, just some :3

A rose by any other name...

only in this case it's gak by any other name.

Throwing this out there, not making any judgments about it. From what I heard GW is switching to a 100% inspect on the finecast before it is packaged. If any "unacceptable" flaws come through the packaging and model are to be returned so the inspector can be tracked, and disciplined if necessary.

As I said, just repeating what I heard, no judging on my part as to the voracity of the statement.

@Treadhead - That would be great news if it wasn't for the fact that certain defects or amount of defects are deemed acceptable.

I have been doing the Finecast Tango for nearly a year now and they finally admitted to me having seen my website that they would not be able to produce a model of a quality that I would be happy with.

There are certain flaws that they can't and more importantly won't solve.

I played the finecast tango game out of sheer disbelief that it couldn't be THAT bad unfortunately it is and FW's new nonfinecast resin is just as bad.

LunaHound wrote:

insaniak wrote:The what now? Ignoring the fact that 'Fine'cast is still quite prominently branded as 'Finecast'... How does GW describing 'Fine'cast as 'finely cast resin' help anything?

Because there was a brief period ( obviously gone now ) where GW doesnt use the pop up flash

Nope, I'm still not seeing what that's helping, exactly.

Whether they call it Finecast or finely cast resin, it's still being sold as Finecast and it's still gak.


Of course, I could also point out that it's a pretty huge leap of logic to suggest that the 'change' to describing Finecast as finely cast resin is a response to customer complaints rather than simply being due to the fact that Finecast is, you know, resin...

insaniak wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

insaniak wrote:The what now? Ignoring the fact that 'Fine'cast is still quite prominently branded as 'Finecast'... How does GW describing 'Fine'cast as 'finely cast resin' help anything?

Because there was a brief period ( obviously gone now ) where GW doesnt use the pop up flash

Nope, I'm still not seeing what that's helping, exactly.

Whether they call it Finecast or finely cast resin, it's still being sold as Finecast and it's still gak.


Of course, I could also point out that it's a pretty huge leap of logic to suggest that the 'change' to describing Finecast as finely cast resin is a response to customer complaints rather than simply being due to the fact that Finecast is, you know, resin...

By changing the branding and the information behind it, you make it, in theory, more difficult for new customers to follow on all of the talk thats going around a shoddy product. It's like a company that re-brands and re-labels a drug every time something is found wrong with it. The only difference here is that GW's packaging can't be changed in a few days. They already have a large range of products under that label, so instead of changing the labelling and the branding, they are changing the advertising and working within the constraints created by the branding.

Theoretically, making that change could throw off pursuit, but GW is the elephant in the great prairies. It can find a stunted tree to hide behind, but it still won't look like a bison. This might have worked for a much smaller company.

TheWookalarKing wrote:I am just getting back into warhammer and 40k after 15 years off. Unfortunately I no longer own any miniatures, and would have to start out purchasing everything.
Should I just wait a while longer and see if the casting issues are taken care of, or are the problems actually few and far between?
We no longer have a Games Workshop store in Connecticut, and would have to travel, the closest one being 120 miles away in New York City, to be able to open and inspect each piece.

Go privateer press, less model hassle and better rules.

poda_t wrote:

insaniak wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

insaniak wrote:The what now? Ignoring the fact that 'Fine'cast is still quite prominently branded as 'Finecast'... How does GW describing 'Fine'cast as 'finely cast resin' help anything?

Because there was a brief period ( obviously gone now ) where GW doesnt use the pop up flash

Nope, I'm still not seeing what that's helping, exactly.

Whether they call it Finecast or finely cast resin, it's still being sold as Finecast and it's still gak.


Of course, I could also point out that it's a pretty huge leap of logic to suggest that the 'change' to describing Finecast as finely cast resin is a response to customer complaints rather than simply being due to the fact that Finecast is, you know, resin...

By changing the branding and the information behind it, you make it, in theory, more difficult for new customers to follow on all of the talk thats going around a shoddy product. It's like a company that re-brands and re-labels a drug every time something is found wrong with it. The only difference here is that GW's packaging can't be changed in a few days. They already have a large range of products under that label, so instead of changing the labelling and the branding, they are changing the advertising and working within the constraints created by the branding.

Theoretically, making that change could throw off pursuit, but GW is the elephant in the great prairies. It can find a stunted tree to hide behind, but it still won't look like a bison. This might have worked for a much smaller company.

You sir, got it absolutely. /high5

treadhead1944 wrote:Throwing this out there, not making any judgments about it. From what I heard GW is switching to a 100% inspect on the finecast before it is packaged. If any "unacceptable" flaws come through the packaging and model are to be returned so the inspector can be tracked, and disciplined if necessary.

As I said, just repeating what I heard, no judging on my part as to the voracity of the statement.

That's great news if true, and I have to say about time.

The crux of course comes down to what is deemed as 'acceptable', as Zinge has pointed out. If the capability to produce a high quality sculpt isn't there because of poor resin and casting technique, it won't matter how closely it is inspected with a magnifying glass.

poda_t wrote:
By changing the branding and the information behind it, you make it, in theory, more difficult for new customers to follow on all of the talk thats going around a shoddy product. It's like a company that re-brands and re-labels a drug every time something is found wrong with it. The only difference here is that GW's packaging can't be changed in a few days. They already have a large range of products under that label, so instead of changing the labelling and the branding, they are changing the advertising and working within the constraints created by the branding.

Theoretically, making that change could throw off pursuit, but GW is the elephant in the great prairies. It can find a stunted tree to hide behind, but it still won't look like a bison. This might have worked for a much smaller company.

Except the items which are marked as "finely cast resin" but not labeled as "Finecast" are the various upgrade packs.

It's not an attempt to hide anything, as far as I can tell. It's simply differentiating the Bitz packs from the actual models.

Pacific wrote:

treadhead1944 wrote:Throwing this out there, not making any judgments about it. From what I heard GW is switching to a 100% inspect on the finecast before it is packaged. If any "unacceptable" flaws come through the packaging and model are to be returned so the inspector can be tracked, and disciplined if necessary.

As I said, just repeating what I heard, no judging on my part as to the voracity of the statement.

That's great news if true, and I have to say about time.

The crux of course comes down to what is deemed as 'acceptable', as Zinge has pointed out. If the capability to produce a high quality sculpt isn't there because of poor resin and casting technique, it won't matter how closely it is inspected with a magnifying glass.

GW Exec: And how do you propose to pay these laborers for this tedious inspection ritual?

GW Rank-and-File: Stormravens for $82.50?

GW Exec: Brilliant.

poda_t wrote:By changing the branding and the information behind it, you make it, in theory, more difficult for new customers to follow on all of the talk thats going around a shoddy product.

Which would be relevant if they were changing the branding. Finecast hasn't gone anywhere.

Kanluwen wrote:

poda_t wrote:
By changing the branding and the information behind it, you make it, in theory, more difficult for new customers to follow on all of the talk thats going around a shoddy product. It's like a company that re-brands and re-labels a drug every time something is found wrong with it. The only difference here is that GW's packaging can't be changed in a few days. They already have a large range of products under that label, so instead of changing the labelling and the branding, they are changing the advertising and working within the constraints created by the branding.

Theoretically, making that change could throw off pursuit, but GW is the elephant in the great prairies. It can find a stunted tree to hide behind, but it still won't look like a bison. This might have worked for a much smaller company.

Except the items which are marked as "finely cast resin" but not labeled as "Finecast" are the various upgrade packs.

It's not an attempt to hide anything, as far as I can tell. It's simply differentiating the Bitz packs from the actual models.

You were saying?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1600028a

This pack contains Marneus Calgar, Lord Macragge - a finely detailed resin cast kit that comes in three components, and is supplied with a 25mm round base. This miniature is supplied unpainted and requires assembly - we recommend using Citadel Super Glue and Citadel Paints.

And yet the wording from the Crimson Fists Assault Squad Upgrades:

This pack contains one Crimson Fists Assault Squad Upgrade Pack - a finely detailed resin cast kit that comes in fourteen components

Aerethan wrote:You were saying?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1600028a

This pack contains Marneus Calgar, Lord Macragge - a finely detailed resin cast kit that comes in three components, and is supplied with a 25mm round base. This miniature is supplied unpainted and requires assembly - we recommend using Citadel Super Glue and Citadel Paints.

And when you look up, you see a picture with 'Citadel Finecast' emblazoned across the bottom of it...



Seriously, trying to blow GW's describing Finecast as resin (which, you know, it is) up into some sort of official move away from promoting Finecast as a brand is just ludicrous. They stlll have 'Citadel Finecast' tacked over every single image. If anything, I would suspect that adding the mention of 'finely cast resin' into product descriptions is just to make it clearer that Finecast is indeed resin for the unititiated to know what the hell they are talking about.

insaniak wrote:

poda_t wrote:By changing the branding and the information behind it, you make it, in theory, more difficult for new customers to follow on all of the talk thats going around a shoddy product.

Which would be relevant if they were changing the branding. Finecast hasn't gone anywhere.

I have the distinct sense you did not read the remainder of my statment.

Aerethan wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

poda_t wrote:
By changing the branding and the information behind it, you make it, in theory, more difficult for new customers to follow on all of the talk thats going around a shoddy product. It's like a company that re-brands and re-labels a drug every time something is found wrong with it. The only difference here is that GW's packaging can't be changed in a few days. They already have a large range of products under that label, so instead of changing the labelling and the branding, they are changing the advertising and working within the constraints created by the branding.

Theoretically, making that change could throw off pursuit, but GW is the elephant in the great prairies. It can find a stunted tree to hide behind, but it still won't look like a bison. This might have worked for a much smaller company.

Except the items which are marked as "finely cast resin" but not labeled as "Finecast" are the various upgrade packs.

It's not an attempt to hide anything, as far as I can tell. It's simply differentiating the Bitz packs from the actual models.

You were saying?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1600028a

This pack contains Marneus Calgar, Lord Macragge - a finely detailed resin cast kit that comes in three components, and is supplied with a 25mm round base. This miniature is supplied unpainted and requires assembly - we recommend using Citadel Super Glue and Citadel Paints.

And yet the wording from the Crimson Fists Assault Squad Upgrades:

This pack contains one Crimson Fists Assault Squad Upgrade Pack - a finely detailed resin cast kit that comes in fourteen components

I don't think you actually read what I wrote, Aerethan.

Marneus Calgar, Lord Macragge is labeled as Finecast.
You can see that in your own link as he has a great big old banner at the bottom of his photograph saying "CITADEL FINECAST".

The Crimson Fists Assault Squad Upgrades is not labeled in the same manner, nor are the rest of the bits packs that I could find.

The 2 sides... arn't on the same page.

You guys are talking about different things -_-.....

LunaHound wrote:The 2 sides... arn't on the same page.

You guys are talking about different things -_-.....

Then feel free to explain just what you were talking about. Because so far, all you have done is apparently claim that GW calling Finecast 'resin' is a sign of... something that we should all be happy about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

poda_t wrote:I have the distinct sense you did not read the remainder of my statment.

No, I read it. I'm just not seeing the relevance, since there is no actual evidence that GW are re-branding anything.

insaniak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

poda_t wrote:I have the distinct sense you did not read the remainder of my statment.

No, I read it. I'm just not seeing the relevance, since there is no actual evidence that GW are re-branding anything.

......exactly..... they aren't re-branding, but they are no longer copy-pasting the original fine-cast dialogue either. They changed the dialogue to something that can be pointed to reduce the standards. Why have they changed the dialogue box content?

poda_t wrote: Why have they changed the dialogue box content?

As I said, I find it more likely that this was simply to make it clear that Finecast is actually resin, rather than through any attempt to change public perception of the product.

insaniak wrote:Then feel free to explain just what you were talking about. Because so far, all you have done is apparently claim that GW calling Finecast 'resin' is a sign of... something that we should all be happy about.

Maybe Kan can explain it

insaniak wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

insaniak wrote:The what now? Ignoring the fact that 'Fine'cast is still quite prominently branded as 'Finecast'... How does GW describing 'Fine'cast as 'finely cast resin' help anything?

Because there was a brief period ( obviously gone now ) where GW doesnt use the pop up flash

Nope, I'm still not seeing what that's helping, exactly.

Whether they call it Finecast or finely cast resin, it's still being sold as Finecast and it's still gak.


Of course, I could also point out that it's a pretty huge leap of logic to suggest that the 'change' to describing Finecast as finely cast resin is a response to customer complaints rather than simply being due to the fact that Finecast is, you know, resin...

By calling it a different name they can hope to avoid the stigma that is associated with that name.
If I have a box of gak and sell it under that name people will know what they're getting understanding what it is, however if I change to calling it a mystery box it will take a while before it eventually catches up. Hence with little effort I have allowed myself to sell the same crappy product a touch longer. Then when I realise no one's buying it I can be lazy and go back to the old name and simply not care anymore as I expect a fanbase, I assume spends most of their time drooling and trying to figure out how to open a door, would buy up anything as long as I put that shiny company logo onto it.

n0t_u wrote:By calling it a different name they can hope to avoid the stigma that is associated with that name.

But they're not calling it a different name...

insaniak wrote:

n0t_u wrote:By calling it a different name they can hope to avoid the stigma that is associated with that name.

But they're not calling it a different name...

As I said, for awhile they took it off......

In the descriptions for a brief time they did instead of calling it Finecast they changed to their generic template but with resin in it. May have been testing waters, more likely someone was lazy seeing as they stopped it.

It's also strange they do not give that name to these conversion kits, they likely use the same process and expanding the range as such helps. Then they just simply call them resin with no sign of Finecast.

insaniak wrote:

poda_t wrote: Why have they changed the dialogue box content?

As I said, I find it more likely that this was simply to make it clear that Finecast is actually resin, rather than through any attempt to change public perception of the product.

...... so you agree with me then. lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

n0t_u wrote:In the descriptions for a brief time they did instead of calling it Finecast they changed to their generic template but with resin in it. May have been testing waters, more likely someone was lazy seeing as they stopped it.

It's also strange they do not give that name to these conversion kits, they likely use the same process and expanding the range as such helps. Then they just simply call them resin with no sign of Finecast.

yes, because by saying that resin comes with problems they avoid indicating that finecast comes with problems. They're trying to blame the material instead of their own methods

insaniak wrote:

n0t_u wrote:By calling it a different name they can hope to avoid the stigma that is associated with that name.

But they're not calling it a different name...

AFAIK they're still using the Finecast trademark and logo on their stuff. We'll know for sure when the next batch of fake-resin models are released.

I actually saw a finecast today with no flaws.
Thinking of doing the lottery tonight, must be my lucky day