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How far would you go to win?
If drawing the foul is okay what tactics are taboo ?
Do you fudge how many SoB are under the template?
Do you roll so quick your opponent doesnt catch what you roled.
Are your army lists 100% accurate or do you ocasionaly forget or add gear?
What kind of dirty tricks do we do?
Do your troops always make their charge even if they are a few centimeters short?
I'm sure no one wants to admit anything so any one who posts should tell us about "this guy I saw at the game store was....."

I think the the thing I see the alot at game stores is front to back measuring. Its something to watch for with those nasty hand to hand armies.
Its not something that works against an alert player but if they get distracted step away from the table its not very odvious and hard to check for.

I generally fudge an extra guardsman under the template, rather than one less, to be honest (when i'm being shot).

Although, realised afterwards I was 1 point over via a bolt pistol sarge who i thought was a laspistol sarge in a tourney once... didnt matter much, 0-5 ftw.

Anywho. most people cheat accidentally from time to time, lots of intentional cheating (shoving the back boyz of a squad up so that they all get into hth instead of just the front half when they were advancing spread out is a pet hate, ditto the silly 14" cruising speed land raider)

I agree mistakes are just that mistakes and if its a friendly game It should be forgiven even laughed about.
But I think we all come to that place in the game where your own integrity is tested.
Whether its your opponent asking if he already fired a unit or your opponent forgeting a model of yours was shaken last round.
I find it hardest to be honest with people I dont like and or when the other parts of my day have been crappy.


If you catch a person say fibing on a dice roll do you think they are a cheat from then on?
Should you then tell everyone at the game store and effectively ruin their reputation?

I go out of my way to ensure everything, at least on my side of the table, is kosher. My army lists are broken down by unit type (HQ, Troop etc), points value and all upgrades with their points values. I let my opponent judge how many of his guys are under a template, and after determining what I need to hit or wound I 'll roll and pick out the dice that did not score so they can see how many actually landed.

I do this because I don't want there to be any question what so ever about my integrity. A victory where a person cheats isn't a victory at all. I can't stand cheaters, and if I catch somebody cheating I'll point it out, if they continue to do so I will remember not to play them again. To answer the reputation question, yes if I found them to be a cheater rather than just inexperienced and making mistakes I will let the rest of the players know.

I have a very black and white personality in life, it either is, or isn't. I never see the grey and this applies to my gaming too. So in cases of "is it under the blast marker or isn't it?" I choose to say it isn't or allow my opponent to have the final say and trust their honesty

As far as cheating goes I would never knowingly cheat, and if at any time I found out I had played incorrectly I would own up to my mistake and inform my opponent immeadiatly and then take it from there. In some cases that this has happened we've agree on some form of compensation, usually this means something along the lines of ... if I have killed members of a particular squad and then realised that a weapon i had shot could not of fired, then one model is replaced back into that squad for example

When i roll dice I try to make sure they are always visible and i make sure that they can see the results before allocating whats what or moving them into another position. ie putting all the successful dice together and seperate from the misses.

There was one instant where I was almost blue in the face from arguing over a rule. If I had allowed the rule to be played the way my opponent thought is was (he got confused with fantasy warhammer) then I would have won through an unfair advantage. I didn't let it slide because if I win a game I want to win from playing by the rules and by using skill and tactics where applicable, not from abusing a rule or allowing myself to take advantage.

If my opponent wants to make mistakes because he doesn't know his own army, then thats their choice. If it was someone who was completely new to 40K then I would at least offer to give them advice and if they agreed, I'd then let them know the adv and dis-adv of what they were about to do. But as all my opponents happen to be better opponents than me, I'm prepared to let them make a mistake or too

The person who cheats doesn't understand that Warhammer is a game. It is intended to be fun and bring people together. Cheating ruins all of that.

Why anyone would consciously do any of those things is quite beyond my capacity.

If winning is that important to you, why not redirect your effort into a venue that would net you a profit?

My games go from relaxed --> stressful ---> being a dick/rules nazi depending on my opponent. I'm kind of a chameleon. If they're laid back and relaxed, I am too. If they're being a rules nazi, I am too.

For blast templates: If my opponent is firing at me, and my troops are anywhere within reachable distance of them, I anticipate them checking the blast and telling me what they hit. I only second guess / check if it sounds preposterous, or if the game is getting stressful. When they blast template my own rear edge, I generally measure since I'm right there, and when I fire at their back edge, I get them to look for me. When its a close call for either side, my accepted practice is to 4+ it.

Dice-rolling: I will *never* EVER fudge a dice roll. That goes from the realm of potential mistake to straight cheating. I pick up my misses and leave my hits for my opponent to see UNLESS I'm shooting a *lot* of shots as Orks and have only a couple of hits. Doesn't make sense to roll 12 dice to shoot with, and pick out the 10 misses. I generally don't watch my opponent's dice rolling (too trusting?) because I presume that no one else is going to cheat either. If I happen to see someone keep something that shouldn't have been, then I take notice and start paying attention, and I generally always pay attention to rolls against vehicle penetration.

Moving: I've gotten into the habit of placing my tape measure on the table (static) with it opened to the distance I'm moving, then placing my models X" along the prescribed route so that there can be no mistake. I'm a little more attentive to measuring in my opponents because a lot of people seem to not worry about being precise here. The most common thing I see is for people to hold the tape measure over their model, note where its going, then pick up their model, lean forward, and place the model down where the end of the tape measure is. The problem here being that when you lean forward, your arm extends forward increasing the distance that you get to go.

All it proves is that cheaters have low self esteem as they don't think they can win if they play fair. I think cheaters are pathetic poeple.

(I'm not referring to those who make a geniune mistake about the rules, just those that purposely do it)

Only unintentionally.

@Dashofpepper, yes thats something i do to, place the tape measure down on the table top and slide the model to get a more precise movement

I'll argue what I see, not what I want to see.
If that means ALL my models are under the blast so be it.

And by the way, though the other stuff is bad sportsmenship, the messing with the dice? No, the dice roll is sacred.

I always try and avoid cheating and give my opponent the benefit of the doubt if there's some debate - however mistakes do happen

Movement is the biggest area for me that stretches the rules - it's just too painful to measure every ork in a 30 strong mob, especially if they're going round a corner. Normaly I measure the front one and the back one then sort of move the rest between in approximatly the same formation, this can result in a certain amount of 'shuffling' in the pack though, especially where terrain gets in the way

In all my years of gaming I have only recently had the *joy* of playing against cheaters.

It pisses me off.

oddly enough most of the games I played against these cheaters I end up winning anyways. Maybe they cheated out of desperation, i dunno.

Also, i dont mention it in the game, calling someone out on cheating is a quick way to get into an arguement, and a quick way to ruin everyone elses (the games around you) gaming experience. I just work 10x harder to win when i see my opponent cheating, and I am doubly sure to very precise in my unit movements and making my rolls visible.

when i first started playing the game i would cheat all the time, unknowingly at first, then after the rules had been pointed out, i would just "forget" in game. but that was when i was 10 years old... I soon stopped cheating as it quickly dwindled your group of friends to play against.

It is never worth the consequences to cheat. If you cheat and win, so what, who cares. If you cheat and get caught, your name is blackened forever. You'll always be "that guy".

I really depends on the kind of person Im playing. If the person is an easy going guy who seems to know his rules and doesn't deliberately try to tip the game in his favor, its going to be a smooth ride. We will tend to agree on how many units are under a blast, or do a friendly roll off if we come to a disagreement.

Now if he starts picking up those "hits" dice quickly after each roll, or rolling where I cant see whats going on, or his armor save seems to fluctuate, I may have to pull some crap on my own, if not to balance the game out as it where, but to show that I can be just a big a jerk as him, and hopefully force him out, cause a cheater does not like to be cheated.

Would it be rude to ask your opponent not to make any roles without you seeing them. Would you take offense?
I dont think I would but I was wondering what other people thought.

The question I ask myself and I think a lot of people do is if your opponent is playing/building his army list correctly.
I for one have not memorized every army list and realy have to take the word of my opponent that he can do what he says he can.

I would never conciously cheat, yes we all make mistakes but for frak's sake it's a game if it really mean that much to you, you need to look at what your missing in life

I don't often cheat I sometimes forget I didn't add something mid game like hey this model I been using having a powersword I forgot doesn't so instead mid game I just decide I won't use say a Heavy Stubbor anymore just because I am cheatin at that point. Not my fault but whatev.

As for templates as a guard player with them I am often generous in both respects. I have some opponents that try to short the amount mostly cuz there stomach turns when the executioner hits dead on 3 times and get 5 models each time. But I can't blaim them much. I try not to cheat best I can if I do its mostly because I forget things my memory is no good and I am happy to be corrected by the rule book or my list.

I have met some players that do some really stupid stuff like there was this guy at my gamestore that would measure 18 inches when moved his landraider like head just put out 20 inches in front and move 12. Just making sure when he moved it that way he wouldn't be short on the charge out. Most people didn't catch it because at my gamestore we are pretty laid back. Its just small things.

Generally I try to put all my dice rolls in the middle of the field where my opponent and me both see them clearly and I try my best to always trust my opponent and give him the benefit of the doubt unless I dont trust him haha which there are those people who I know who would cheat.

Some people cheat but dont know there cheating, like a friend of my mine, been playing for three years but was taught by a TFG and only recently got the rulebook, anyway i was playing him, it was my turn, i turned around for a minute and he stuck his drop podm down, and claimed its had been there all the time, im not sure if thats cheating, im going to help him learn the rules though, it not realy his fault he was misinformed.

Krimmsonscurge wrote:Would it be rude to ask your opponent not to make any roles without you seeing them. Would you take offense?
I dont think I would but I was wondering what other people thought.

The question I ask myself and I think a lot of people do is if your opponent is playing/building his army list correctly.
I for one have not memorized every army list and realy have to take the word of my opponent that he can do what he says he can.

Yea, the last game i played against a guy who was cheating was manipulating his dice rolls, measuring his movements "front to back" and used the "krak grenades" on his penal legion to pop my predator.

and I still won the game. Would have gotten a massacre if my predator had one more round of shooting too.

I only let some minor things "slip" if I've seen my opponent cheat that game. It's just fun to see douchebags get upset when they're in a possible game-loss situation, and the more you threaten them the more nervous they tend to get. The closest thing I do to consistently cheating is if I really, really don't like someone I'm playing against and they need to use a template, I let them borrow the 4th ed white ones since they're a little bit smaller.

Honestly what is the sense of playing if you are going to cheat?

My IG are designed to kill themselves as much as the enemy. I love it when one of my plasma guns explode. f i could afford in in my lists I would take a commisar everywhere so I can shoot my own guys LOL.

It a game people.

CajunMan550 wrote:I have met some players that do some really stupid stuff like there was this guy at my gamestore that would measure 18 inches when moved his landraider like head just put out 20 inches in front and move 12. Just making sure when he moved it that way he wouldn't be short on the charge out. Most people didn't catch it because at my gamestore we are pretty laid back. Its just small things.
quote]

Wow prety sneaky thats one to watch for.

Xav, what is a TFG?

A TFG is a That F*cking Guy.

I hate it when I roll really well, but my opponent wasn't watching, or the dice lands somewhere he can't see.

I feel like I have to step away from the dice to prove that I haven't gone over and rolled my little 1s into 6s.

Orkeosaurus wrote:I hate it when I roll really well, but my opponent wasn't watching, or the dice lands somewhere he can't see.

I feel like I have to step away from the dice to prove that I haven't gone over and rolled my little 1s into 6s.

Just use different handfuls of dice after a good roll. I have a little case I keep a ton in and just refresh them every few rolls and it always works out.

I don't cheat. At least not intentionally, I have made mistakes before, being human and all...

I play with at least one guy I know cheats, he's a really fun opponent but when he is losing you have to watch him close.... :(

People say cheating too easily. There's a difference between intentional violation of clearcut rules and accidental violation of rules, or rules interpretations.

Having said that I am a real buggaboo about horizontal LOS.

I generally play "tight", but have a tendency to occasionally "nudge" in my favor when rushed or hurried. I guess that just makes me human.