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caladancid wrote:I really love the models from Darklands, and want to like the company but what in the world-

"As you may or may not know, we can't survive on Kickstarters from years past, that doesn't pay this month's wages in any way. We can't ignore them even if we wanted to (which we don't, I can assure you)"

Of course you can't ignore the Kickstarters! Many people are probably in the same boat as me where Mierce has HUNDREDS of dollars of my money for YEARS with no models yet. What a ridiculous statement. Really makes me upset and question the business.

JWBS wrote:Yeah that is literally them saying that they've spent the KS funds but have not yet delivered the product. Even if they've spent it on product development or infrastructure or whatever, those funds were explicitly raised for the purposes of delivering specific products so that would not be an acceptable explanation.

Yeah, those statements are a bit troubling, especially for me, considering the size of the backlog of miniatures that I paid for and that Mierce still owes me.

Sure, points for honesty, but...it didn't give me the warm and fuzzies in terms of me getting everything I paid for already...

 Illumini wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 Illumini wrote:
I see he is on a 100mm base, but it is hopefully doable to squeeze onto a 75x75.

I'm thinking it should be fine, especially when you see how much the Mantic chimera overhangs its 75 as it is

Dear GOD Mantic's model are butt ugly. That looks like a toy you'd by at Hobby Lobby.

Yeah, they make great rules, but their models still generally suck.
They have improved somewhat lately, especially for vanguard, but at the cost of no longer really being a cheap option, and they are still miles behind most competitors in design and production. Weird mold lines, weird plastic, bad monopose, terrible terrible weapons etc.

The Mierce manticore blows Mantic´s weird chimera out of the water for sure.

Because for reasons unknown (but of no surprise to anyone that's worked with Mantic), they seem to want their monsters sculpted in a scale that doesn't fit the assigned base sizes, and no one has grasped hold of the issue and either told the sculptors to shrink it down so it looks a natural fit for the base, or eratta'd the base size. The KoW rules allow monsters to go on a base bigger than the assigned size though, so unless you're ultra-competative, you don't need to worry too much about getting other brands in.

The financial comment is a no-brainer, even if day-to-day costs were budgeted into the KS prices (which I assume they were), they've obviously gone beyond the horizon that that would cover. I'm starting to see the light in terms of my KS backlog, it's still ~£900 at KS prices, but a relatively small amount compared to what I've bought in total.

I don't think the financial comment is a no-brainer? In fact, it is the opposite of what we should expect from a Kickstarter. Just because it is where we've ended up doesn't mean thats correct.

Perhaps that is my main problem. It is presented in a "well this is just how it is so deal with it" versus a continued "I am sorry I massively overpromised and took out zero interest loans by saying I could do something that was apparently never possible and am working towards fixing it."

I also don't understand why instead of sculpting models already sold, new models are being made and sold. If the goal is just to sell more stuff- why does the new stuff sell any better to new customers than the items already shown in concept art form?

Yes, going beyond the horizon with the KS money is still indicative of a negative situation. At best it means that they've used earmarked money for general upkeep, showing that their other income is insufficient for this. Covid doesn't cut it as an explanation, they seem to have been this way for years (I dropped out of the perpetual Mierce KS cycle probably over four years ago after being onboard with the first half dozen. Even back then, it seemed like a very unappealing prospect, tbh I'm only surprised that it's taken this long to finally come to the surface).

caladancid wrote:


I also don't understand why instead of sculpting models already sold, new models are being made and sold. If the goal is just to sell more stuff- why does the new stuff sell any better to new customers than the items already shown in concept art form?

Because Rob knows his target audience are the people that buy most everything they release so sculpting new stuff means new things for the same people to buy. For various reasons Darklands hasn't really grown in it's fanbase so completing stuff to try and sell to people that didn't get it in the KSer doesn't bring in as much money. I'm not exaggerating either. There are some hardcore Mierce fans that are keeping everything afloat. There's probably 20 that would by stuff if they were 200 quid a model.

As for the statement. Of course it's concerning but it's expected and pretty much what everyone figured out months ago when these type of sales started as Rob had promised the aforementioned hardcore fans no more KSers (outside of the failed plastic boardgame) until they were caught up. Even if he still has all the money for the sculpts, molds and resin he has to pay wages and I know they have some more employees now when before it was a 2 man operation I believe. So being upfront about how they're paying those wages and what upcoming sales are is something that's quite welcome.

I moved to mostly only buying things from a KSer right before they shipped to avoid long backlogs, and potential financial issues, couple years ago and much more prefer the current sales for new stuff and occasional KSer stuff.

several kickstarters ran into that problem. They didnt get enough backers to really get that huge influx of cash, so they were able to pay to get models sculpted, but not printed and cast, or half of them sculpted and printed, but not shipped, etc. some combination of that.

So now, just commission smaller projects, which help pay for themselves AND part of the backlog , hence each year like 2 of the kickstarter projects finish. of 2 or 3 kickstarters (all the ones for big monsters), ive gotten everything except for 3. most recently got the 2 tailed scorpion monsters.

Now im just waiting for Kretos Beta, Scethaen, and Schros.

To try and mediate risks, i just pay the fee to ship immediately, whenever a new model is done from my kickstarter wave, so incase anything happens, i atleast have as many models as possible.

their sculpts are amazing - -espec stuff by Daniel Cockersell so i can deal with the stress of waiting but for me, its just some monsters - not in it for any of the army sets, etc).

SF

Yeah no argument there- the game itself is brilliant. I just get rubbed the wrong way, obviously, over the lateness and lack of apparent remorse.

Moving right along- is there a good place I can go to look at pics of assembled Darklands models (of various factions)? The Facebook group is decent, but is there anywhere not Facebook related?

You could try the forum http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/forum/

(I've not been for a while myself I got put off by the whole photobucket crisis wrecking my blog there, laboriously rebuilding it with a new photo site which then also folded and Wrecked it again)

anywhere else that had a lot is either not current (the beer waagh) or has pulled most of their stuff down (not just mierce) in a way that makes me suspect they now work for a minis company that doesn't want staff involved with other brands

The send the eighth blog also used to have a fair amount, but that's down and the authors now on Facebook as Daemon Inks Studios but most of the mierce stuff didn't migrate, but I think somebody has saved a lot of the content to Pinterest but I don't use that so can't poke around much but worth a search if you are

There's a facebook fan group, Mierce Militia, that use to post lots of painted and assembled stuff. Not sure if they are still around.

you've got the Mierce/Darklands group https://www.facebook.com/groups/263124117459672/

and the Mierce Militia https://www.facebook.com/Mierce-Militia-Unofficial-470997013001183/

 Monkeysloth wrote:
There's a facebook fan group, Mierce Militia, that use to post lots of painted and assembled stuff. Not sure if they are still around.

Mierce Militia is kinda defunct now because a) the guy who originally ran it had to sell up due to financial issues, and the other two guys who stepped in with me kinda faded away. But it was only really there because Mierce themselves didn't have a FB presence so it's purpose is almost redundant now. I do try and remember to share Mierce posts to get the word out to older fans that may not have followed the official Mierce posts.

As for painted models, James Wappel is a top mini painter and regularly paint Mierce models, so he's worth a follow.

RE: the financial comment being a no-brainer, IMO it's reasonably obvious that any funding for central costs would have run out by now because most of the KSers have crossed significantly beyond their delivery date, I don't see why that's a controversial opinion. And at least they're doing something about it, there was another KS (Dust?) that failed because they had 7 months of funds, moved into a shiny new space, then rewrote the rules several times and didn't get the product to market before they got in trouble. (I think Mierce's issue was in the earlier, bigger KSers they made assumptions about sculptor availability that didn't pan out, and you can see in later KSers the communication talks regularly about "locking sculptors in" being implied to happen as the stretch goal gets achieved.)

RE: why Mierce hasn't taken off. IMO, as someone that's spent their career analysing product performance, the game rules aren't a popular product, and that's what'll really drive product. I'm glad for Rob that he wrote the ruleset he wanted to write and got it published and out in the real world, but at some point he needs to have his "Honda moment" and adjust to what the market is likely to want.

As long as Mierce stick to QUALITY, in terms of model design, sculpting, and molding, they can differentiate themselves from the market, and perhaps survive.
There was -signs- a while ago this was slipping, I mentioned the terrible (IMO) feathers on the new Jabberwocky as an example.
I am very happy with the recent models I have received.
Krekek is a masterpiece! Amazing fit (Except the two body halves for some reason), and fantastic,realistic detailed texturing!

 Baragash wrote:


RE: the financial comment being a no-brainer, IMO it's reasonably obvious that any funding for central costs would have run out by now because most of the KSers have crossed significantly beyond their delivery date, I don't see why that's a controversial opinion. And at least they're doing something about it,

I suppose because your comment implies to some that you think this is expected and ok (and by expected I mean expected from a healthy responsible company, not Mierce, which some people would expect this from).

I mean the projects are years late. Of course they don't have the money so it's 100% expected just from basic math and common sense.

Many of us are OK with it as we want our stuff and the only other way for Mierce to raise funds is another KSer which they agreed not to do last year. So cycling between new releases and KSer funded ones is a pretty reasonable option for long time backers.

We're past the angry stage on this as that happened quite a while ago and Rob is doing what he can to keep things afloat and deliver.

Yes I know it's expected. Zero percent of people following Mierce didn't expect this to be the case. The contention is whether it's ok, and since "Expected" can be defined as "It's fine", that's where the vagueness of "As expected" as a summary is being challenged (as far as I can see).

As I said. At least here we're pretty much past being angry and debating if it's OK. We've had those discussions. People just want their stuff and this seams the best course.

If Rob only did KSer stuff he believes they'd fail to deliver and go under. He has a better understanding of his finances and sales then we do. As long as KSer stuff keeps getting released and progress is made I know I'm fine with it. There's no other real option outside of not getting anything.

I get it, you want people to grab pitchforks and burn down a barn, as this isn't how things should have turned out. There might be some that will join you but I don't see any point in it as everything that was in the post was pieced together in this thread pages back over a year ago and those not upset are well in to the acceptance stage.

I suppose I've long since accepted the fact that there's no way I'm getting all of the miniatures I'm owed.

My backlog is huge, Mierce is clearly not in great shape and since some aren't even sculpted yet, I'm betting that many won't even get that far.

Odds are better that Mierce goes belly up before I get everything.

Odds are slightly better that I can get some portion of what's owed me, while many sculpts (funded, bought and paid for) are canceled and I'll hopefully get some sort of store credit for them which I'll quickly use on something that is actually in stock.

Worst set of odds is clearly what should have happened - I get everything I paid for.

But at no point does anyone think this is "OK" or "normal" or "acceptable".

Well, at least I don't!

I think there's two different "OK"s being talked about as well.

Is it OK that they haven't gotten things out in a reasonable time? No. Is it OK that they appear to not have the money to finish what was funded without extra money? No.

Is it OK that they're making new stuff to sell to help fund that instead of digging their hole deeper with KSer debt? Yes. Is them finally admitting that this is what they're doing expected? Yes

I've still got a fair chunk of stuff to get, but I do think I will get it eventually,

they still make some of the nicest minis around so there is going to be an income stream

and i'd far rather get my KS stuff eventually with regular releases making money to keep things ticking over in between than them try and fail to do all the KS stuff by itself ending up with them going pop

besides I like some of the new releases and want them too, and if my shopping habit helps others get their KS stuff too even better

I suppose - but I find it hard to want to give Mierce *more* money when I'm still owed so much.

 Alpharius wrote:
I suppose - but I find it hard to want to give Mierce *more* money when I'm still owed so much.

Nor should you if you don't want or feel comfortable doing so.

Me, I've spent more this year on them then I probably have in 2 year as it's stuff I want and turns out I do get it just a few weeks after the order instead of 4 years which is way better. Though I also only have the Mallox units and Riever Warriors (from the looks of it) in my queue that haven't been sculpted yet and everything else is just waiting on metals so if they say, only last a few more months, I'm not out very much as half my backlog just shipped.

 Alpharius wrote:


Odds are slightly better that I can get some portion of what's owed me, while many sculpts (funded, bought and paid for) are canceled and I'll hopefully get some sort of store credit for them which I'll quickly use on something that is actually in stock.

Thats what I did. I had some stuff stuck in "yet -to-be-sculpted" limbo, so I emailed them and asked them to change my order to remove all minis that aren't available yet and I bought some stuff that was in stock instead with the credit. Feels good not having to worry about that backlog

It seems as though in house metal casting is happening now, thats a great thing.

I would love to see Mierce get to a place where they can make all the human warriors for various factions. They could easily clean up with people buying models for other skirmish games because who else makes great models like that? GW is way high fantasy.

-also yes Rob needs to make MUCH more accessible rules. As they stand now, I have a hard time thinking the game will ever get a moderate following.

Post Cost Increase - order before the 1st of July!

- https://mailchi.mp/mierce-miniatures/post_cost_increase_02 -

Royal Mail are increasing their posting charges on the 1st of July, so order now before we apply them to our website!

The US jump is quite a lot but expected from other discussions on the same topic elsewhere.

Wonder if I'll need to pay more for some of my shipping that I bought years ago?

They'll eat that as it's already paid for (although the extra postal costs will no doubt slow down KS fulfilment that little bit more as they have to earn extra to cover it)

ya. I don't think Rob would ask people for more. I guess I was speaking out loud as to if I should offer to pay the difference for the very reason you state.

I really like mierce miniatures, and like the premise behind the game, but every time I think about jumping in, I hear more stories about Rob being a little fast and loose with customers money, and it just stops me dead. Having bought one large model recently, I was tempted by the new manticore. That temptation dried up quickly reading the last couple of pages of this thread.

Just stick to the Mierce mantra "if it's in stock, worry not, if they ask for money before, caveat emptor."

 JamesY wrote:
I hear more stories about Rob being a little fast and loose with customers money

I don't think this is a very accurate phrase. It's more he kept on building up a bigger backlog of models and over the years cost of everything (labor, material and shipping) have all gone up so the money for 4-5 years ago is worth less and there's always unexpected expenses that chip away at that reserve of money the longer things are pushed out. I think even the more critical people here don't think he's out buying cars with the KSer money.

That being said. Don't preorder something not sculpted and even things that are don't unless you don't mind waiting a long time (though the new items deals so far have all shipped in 4-5 weeks as promised) and if it's in stock you'll get it pretty quickly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also got in a box yesterday of a bunch of metal reivers and my second predorder of a giant Scorpion and Hyenas.

With the metals I got yesterday I'm down to the Reiver support (axe/shield) and Reiver Tains (which should be cast in metal this summer as they had a pre-order in like April and said metal's would be in the summer) and then just a few odds and ends that are in the metal queue and the forever not getting sculpted Mallox.