Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

mrtomski wrote:
What's the best load out for a contemptor? I'm thinking they could actually get into position for a cheap shoot twice with the hellbrute strat.

Can't do that per a FAQ, I believe. Only codex helbrutes, AFAIK.

necrotekkie wrote:

mrtomski wrote:
What's the best load out for a contemptor? I'm thinking they could actually get into position for a cheap shoot twice with the hellbrute strat.

Can't do that per a FAQ, I believe. Only codex helbrutes, AFAIK.

Correct. It is the Helbrute Unit that can use the strat, not the Helbrute keyword.

mrtomski wrote:
What's the best load out for a contemptor? I'm thinking they could actually get into position for a cheap shoot twice with the hellbrute strat.

Q: Can a Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought, Hellforged Deredeo Dreadnought or a Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought use the Fire Frenzy Stratagem from e.g. Codex: Chaos Space Marines?A: No
pag4 FW forces of chaos FAQ

 blackmage wrote:

mrtomski wrote:
What's the best load out for a contemptor? I'm thinking they could actually get into position for a cheap shoot twice with the hellbrute strat.

Q: Can a Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought, Hellforged Deredeo Dreadnought or a Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought use the Fire Frenzy Stratagem from e.g. Codex: Chaos Space Marines?A: No
pag4 FW forces of chaos FAQ

I guess that's fair enough, too bad though!

mrtomski wrote:
What's the best load out for a contemptor? I'm thinking they could actually get into position for a cheap shoot twice with the hellbrute strat.

Dont know about the best but I am now testing out twin C-beamer and greater havoc, it is quite good at clearing out the chaff from what ive seen so far, can also bring the hurt to vehicles and high toughness stuff if its far enough away.

So for a normal hellbrute then, whats the best loadout? I'm thinking the twin heavy bolter might be pretty good for the sheer number of shots it can put out with thbe strat

BrianDavion wrote:
So for a normal hellbrute then, whats the best loadout? I'm thinking the twin heavy bolter might be pretty good for the sheer number of shots it can put out with thbe strat

For cheap, yeah its good, but my las missile dread has yet to fail me with how cheap it is

 Formosa wrote:

mrtomski wrote:
What's the best load out for a contemptor? I'm thinking they could actually get into position for a cheap shoot twice with the hellbrute strat.

Dont know about the best but I am now testing out twin C-beamer and greater havoc, it is quite good at clearing out the chaff from what ive seen so far, can also bring the hurt to vehicles and high toughness stuff if its far enough away.

Can contemptors take a Greater Havoc launcher? I thought that was only Deredeos.

BrianDavion wrote:
So for a normal hellbrute then, whats the best loadout? I'm thinking the twin heavy bolter might be pretty good for the sheer number of shots it can put out with thbe strat

I really like the las missle hellbrute. 120 so cheap and with strat it can do some real damage

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

mrtomski wrote:
What's the best load out for a contemptor? I'm thinking they could actually get into position for a cheap shoot twice with the hellbrute strat.

Dont know about the best but I am now testing out twin C-beamer and greater havoc, it is quite good at clearing out the chaff from what ive seen so far, can also bring the hurt to vehicles and high toughness stuff if its far enough away.

Can contemptors take a Greater Havoc launcher? I thought that was only Deredeos.

This week’s FAQ updated them to allow it

 lindsay40k wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

mrtomski wrote:
What's the best load out for a contemptor? I'm thinking they could actually get into position for a cheap shoot twice with the hellbrute strat.

Dont know about the best but I am now testing out twin C-beamer and greater havoc, it is quite good at clearing out the chaff from what ive seen so far, can also bring the hurt to vehicles and high toughness stuff if its far enough away.

Can contemptors take a Greater Havoc launcher? I thought that was only Deredeos.

This week’s FAQ updated them to allow it

Pretty sure the FAQ only added Havoc Launcher, not Greater Havoc Launcher?

I'm thinking about running a single indomitable warlord Lord Discordant alongside 3x butcher decimators and a butcher leviathan.

Anyone come up with any fun strategies for running a discolord?

 slave.entity wrote:
I'm thinking about running a single indomitable warlord Lord Discordant alongside 3x butcher decimators and a butcher leviathan.

Anyone come up with any fun strategies for running a discolord?

I thought about an count as Darkmech Army:

Heavy support detachment
2Discolords: (320 pts)

3 Dakka defiler (reaper +havoc) (408)

Batallion
2 x Warpsmith (110 pts)

3x10 Cultists (150 pts)

Battalion
1 lord (74 pts)
1 DA -1 to hit prayer. (100pts)

3x 10 Cultists (105 pts)


Which nets me sofar at 1312 pts.

For the lord discordants i thought about unholy fortitude for +1 W and 6+++ i belive. Would pick spitefull altough unsure of it if it applies to the hellstalker aswell or not.

 Formosa wrote:

mrtomski wrote:
What's the best load out for a contemptor? I'm thinking they could actually get into position for a cheap shoot twice with the hellbrute strat.

Dont know about the best but I am now testing out twin C-beamer and greater havoc, it is quite good at clearing out the chaff from what ive seen so far, can also bring the hurt to vehicles and high toughness stuff if its far enough away.

contemptor cant have the greater havoc launcher only the normal one

 slave.entity wrote:
I'm thinking about running a single indomitable warlord Lord Discordant alongside 3x butcher decimators and a butcher leviathan.

Anyone come up with any fun strategies for running a discolord?

Four of those are DAEMON units, so a detachment of Daemons could bring some tasty perks:
- Khorne rerolling charges isn’t much use, but Crimson Crown can give more dakka;
- Changeling could give them all a 6+++, and a Daemonspark casting Flickering Flames isn’t bad;
- Nurgle provides extra damage on a 6 to wound, and access to a healing spell;
- Slaanesh’s fast stabbiness isn’t really relevant at all

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

mrtomski wrote:
What's the best load out for a contemptor? I'm thinking they could actually get into position for a cheap shoot twice with the hellbrute strat.

Dont know about the best but I am now testing out twin C-beamer and greater havoc, it is quite good at clearing out the chaff from what ive seen so far, can also bring the hurt to vehicles and high toughness stuff if its far enough away.

Can contemptors take a Greater Havoc launcher? I thought that was only Deredeos.

This week’s FAQ updated them to allow it

Pretty sure the FAQ only added Havoc Launcher, not Greater Havoc Launcher?

yeah it did, was talking to a mate about the doredeo and got the names mixed up.

Hmm. A unit of unmarked BL Oblits could potentially stack VotLW with Flickering Flames and Crimson Crown and Locus of Virulence for a spectacular Endless Cacophony. It’d take a BL detachment (any kind), a Nurgle Daemons detachment (probably a Battalion), and a mixed Daemons detachment (probably Supreme Command with Skullreaver, or perhaps a Battalion with Horrors and a Bletterbomb (and possibly a Skullreaver)).

 lindsay40k wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:
I'm thinking about running a single indomitable warlord Lord Discordant alongside 3x butcher decimators and a butcher leviathan.

Anyone come up with any fun strategies for running a discolord?

Four of those are DAEMON units, so a detachment of Daemons could bring some tasty perks:
- Khorne rerolling charges isn’t much use, but Crimson Crown can give more dakka;
- Changeling could give them all a 6+++, and a Daemonspark casting Flickering Flames isn’t bad;
- Nurgle provides extra damage on a 6 to wound, and access to a healing spell;
- Slaanesh’s fast stabbiness isn’t really relevant at all

I totally didn't realize the Crimson Crown worked with shooting. That sounds like a worthwhile skullreaver alternative. More value out of butcher shots is always a good thing.

Here's what I've been messing with:

1999pts 9CP

Black Legion Battalion
Abaddon
Lord Discordant, Indomitable, Khorne
3x30 Cultists
Butcher Leviathan

Black Legion Vanguard
Master of Possessions, Cursed Earth, Infernal Power
3x Butcher Decimators, Khorne

Khorne Patrol
DP, Crimson Crown
20x Bloodletters, Banner of Blood

Might try swapping the Khorne patrol with other flavors of support units. Ahriman or Nurgle seem like good picks.

I really think with the prevalence of strong characters and the new slaanesh release, we should be looking towards running our armies like how Ynnari used to run. Use the epitome with cultist or daemon blobs and fiends to lock people in combat, and thunderlords and daemon princes to follow behind and do the heavy lifting. We won't even have to tri tip people anymore to lock them in combat. Is bonkers.

So played my Red Corsairs demon engine list against eldar flyer spam today and got roasted. Was teched for horde and midfield control but eldar flyers (yes, we used the new FAQ) are the rock to my scissors so to speak.

Other than a smash lord, any good anti-flyer units? I can draw Anything from chaos (demons, legions, etc.) but I'm running a bit short on effective ideas. Would love thoughts on solving this problem.

 buddha wrote:
So played my Red Corsairs demon engine list against eldar flyer spam today and got roasted. Was teched for horde and midfield control but eldar flyers (yes, we used the new FAQ) are the rock to my scissors so to speak.

Other than a smash lord, any good anti-flyer units? I can draw Anything from chaos (demons, legions, etc.) but I'm running a bit short on effective ideas. Would love thoughts on solving this problem.

What were the two lists?

Either way, I'll never not tell you to take a deredeo with butcher array, twin HB and greater havoc launcher. Them and contemptors will make short work of fliers.

There’s shenanigans to be had with Skarbrand and the new Epitome. Buuut if your opponent knows what they’re doing, it’s unreliable gimmickry. Filling the sky with massed medium-high firepower is the old-fashioned solution and probably the best.

 buddha wrote:
So played my Red Corsairs demon engine list against eldar flyer spam today and got roasted. Was teched for horde and midfield control but eldar flyers (yes, we used the new FAQ) are the rock to my scissors so to speak.

Other than a smash lord, any good anti-flyer units? I can draw Anything from chaos (demons, legions, etc.) but I'm running a bit short on effective ideas. Would love thoughts on solving this problem.

We had a little bit of discussion on this the other day, which lead me to play a test game with double DPoK one with skullreaver and one with the relic 3D sword. They both did massive work and can reliably kill Eldar fliers in 1 round of combat. You need to be smart with your positioning and be careful of leaving your Princes exposed after they've taken out the fliers (because your screens will likely be left behind) but it worked well for me. These DPoK are also just insanely strong in general so they'll do massive work against non-flyer armies too. Together they average about 38 wounds against a Castellan equivalent for 360 points and 2 relics.

I'd say as long as you have 2-3 fast flying combat threats and some decent 2+ BS / anti-flyer shooting (contempor, levi, deredeo) then you have the tools to deal with flyers. I also always bring a ML in one of my CSM squads for the stratagem.

 lindsay40k wrote:
There’s shenanigans to be had with Skarbrand and the new Epitome. Buuut if your opponent knows what they’re doing, it’s unreliable gimmickry. Filling the sky with massed medium-high firepower is the old-fashioned solution and probably the best.

I don't think it is any less reliable than other options we have. Chaos has plenty of ways to get units up the board and you only need one locked unit to protect your characters. If you run a vanguard of fiends and epitomes, something, somewhere won't be able to get out of combat.

Then, we have some absolutely savage characters. Chainlord, skullreaver prince, the new slaanesh prince / herald, thunderlords, etc. The change to fly in the charge phase will prevent a lot of the tarpitting slowing lists down. The epitome isn't bad, either, when ten str 6 attacks.

This is purely from the perspective of someone who almost exclusively plays ITC, tho

 buddha wrote:
So played my Red Corsairs demon engine list against eldar flyer spam today and got roasted. Was teched for horde and midfield control but eldar flyers (yes, we used the new FAQ) are the rock to my scissors so to speak.

Other than a smash lord, any good anti-flyer units? I can draw Anything from chaos (demons, legions, etc.) but I'm running a bit short on effective ideas. Would love thoughts on solving this problem.

deredeos are a good answer - the +1 helical targeting array and if you cruise through this thread somehow they are (i think) the best points per model for dakka for the dreads. You may also want to consider a vigilus detach for the rerolls 1s to vechs for wound rolls and bringign some havocs and/or oblits... Or ahriman and friends for smite control with bubble wrap. Hellblades are also a niche use here - dan used these for his LVO list the past year when flyers were super meta.

This is the problem if you were trying to run daemon engines as competitive, there is almost no answer to this type of list with the tools you have.

orkswubwub wrote:

 buddha wrote:
So played my Red Corsairs demon engine list against eldar flyer spam today and got roasted. Was teched for horde and midfield control but eldar flyers (yes, we used the new FAQ) are the rock to my scissors so to speak.

Other than a smash lord, any good anti-flyer units? I can draw Anything from chaos (demons, legions, etc.) but I'm running a bit short on effective ideas. Would love thoughts on solving this problem.

deredeos are a good answer - the +1 helical targeting array and if you cruise through this thread somehow they are (i think) the best points per model for dakka for the dreads. You may also want to consider a vigilus detach for the rerolls 1s to vechs for wound rolls and bringign some havocs and/or oblits... Or ahriman and friends for smite control with bubble wrap. Hellblades are also a niche use here - dan used these for his LVO list the past year when flyers were super meta.

This is the problem if you were trying to run daemon engines as competitive, there is almost no answer to this type of list with the tools you have.

Prescience on a bunch of autohavocs? it should do decent enough to bring one thing down atleast.
Alternatively get some hydras in a seperate detachment, they aren't that expensive anymore.

 buddha wrote:
So played my Red Corsairs demon engine list against eldar flyer spam today and got roasted. Was teched for horde and midfield control but eldar flyers (yes, we used the new FAQ) are the rock to my scissors so to speak.

Other than a smash lord, any good anti-flyer units? I can draw Anything from chaos (demons, legions, etc.) but I'm running a bit short on effective ideas. Would love thoughts on solving this problem.

Chaos Xiphon Interceptor with prescience. It will hit other flyers on 2+ with +1 to hit. Havocs/CSM with RL and prescience and flakk missile. The shooting model gets +2 to hit, and does D3 MW, when it hits. Chainlord with ghorisvex teeth, flames of spite, JP, VOTLW, soultearer portent. 6 attacks, hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, +2 to wound, 2MW in addition to normal damage for each 4+ roll to wound. Flawless host DP with dual malefic talons, wings, intoxicating elixir, ultimate confidence, prescience, warpsight plea, 7 attacks, hitting on 2+, rerolling 1s, generating 3 additional attacks for each 4+ to hit.

And of course, move blocking them.

 buddha wrote:
So played my Red Corsairs demon engine list against eldar flyer spam today and got roasted. Was teched for horde and midfield control but eldar flyers (yes, we used the new FAQ) are the rock to my scissors so to speak.

Other than a smash lord, any good anti-flyer units? I can draw Anything from chaos (demons, legions, etc.) but I'm running a bit short on effective ideas. Would love thoughts on solving this problem.

Flying Daemon Princes, and Deredeo Dreadnoughts spring to mind.

The Foul Blightspawn (Death Guard unit) is also a tried-and-true Chaos response to flyers. At Strength 2d6, AP-3, and flat 3 damage with the Plague Weapon rule it can easily swat most flyers out of the sky.

Nature's Minister wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
There’s shenanigans to be had with Skarbrand and the new Epitome. Buuut if your opponent knows what they’re doing, it’s unreliable gimmickry. Filling the sky with massed medium-high firepower is the old-fashioned solution and probably the best.

I don't think it is any less reliable than other options we have. Chaos has plenty of ways to get units up the board and you only need one locked unit to protect your characters. If you run a vanguard of fiends and epitomes, something, somewhere won't be able to get out of combat.

Then, we have some absolutely savage characters. Chainlord, skullreaver prince, the new slaanesh prince / herald, thunderlords, etc. The change to fly in the charge phase will prevent a lot of the tarpitting slowing lists down. The epitome isn't bad, either, when ten str 6 attacks.

This is purely from the perspective of someone who almost exclusively plays ITC, tho

I like this a lot better than forgeworld, so thank you! I dislike that 90% of the answers to any 'what should i take" is always forgeworld. They are significantly undercosted and overpowered, so finding solutions in codex always makes me happy. I'll try the skullreaver prince for anti-flyer and see how it do.

Thinking about building an Iron warrior army with warpsmiths and havocs and such. Wanted a Chaos Bastion for fluff and to try out fortifications for the first time. What do ya'll think, are they decent for sitting near an objective and having the havocs sit inside?

x2 Warpsmiths
x3 MSU squads of chaos space marines with plasma
Havocs
obliterators
ect