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Yeah I'm interested, but I'm not buying an army based off of two renders that even the authors say aren't accurate.

It appears the general consensus is that the pre-order is interesting, but lacking in needed detail. I'd have to agree. To put it terms perhaps a bit to harsh it seems we don't know exactly what we are pre-ordering, when we can pre-order it, or the cost to pre-order vs buying normal retail. I think the more SW can do to address these gaps in our knowledge the more motivated I might feel to place a pre-order. I hope this bit of feedback helps.

p.s. I think a careful rewrite of the Laura package is in order. Without careful reading it's not clear that package includes three vehicles (two tanks + pillar of faith), and Laura seems less worthwhile without this information.

Hello everyone,

we have had a bit of an initial overflow of work so only today we started re-connecting with the forums. I will try my best answering your questions, I apologize in prioris if I miss anything just point it out, I certainly won't avoid anything on puspose and will try to be as clear and helpful as possible. :-)

 Azazelx wrote:
Did anyone notice what the timeframe for the pre-orders is? i.e: When they close?

We haven't decided yet due to our main priority is making sure everything is on track to deliver on time and we are focusing our energy there. It will be open minimum by April 5th.

 Azazelx wrote:
Also, any chance of sprue shots? Since this is a pre-order of retail product with all of the pretense of KS (KS is not a store, etc) pushed aside, I very much want to see what I'm buying before I'm willing to lay my cash down.

Fair argument but the tooling is going to take a few months I'm afraid, if the sprues were readythen we'd have gone straight to retail and there wouldn't be a discounted pre-order like the one running now.

 Azazelx wrote:
The shieldmaidens were/are good, but not entirely what was shown during the KS campaign, ans given my qualms about aspects of the last Sisters design during the KS, and those freaky shoulderpads, I absolutely do want to see the sprues and more detailed renders first.

And that's exactly the reason we are very cautious in not showing absolutely anything that might for whatever reason NOT make it to the final sprues. People having seen what we make can relatively safely presume there will be bodies, tabards, arms, weaponry (more than the Shieldmaiden kit), heads, a few ornaments etc on the sprues of the final product. As for the quality, we have no reason to doubt is going to be anything less than what was delivered by now.

djh2121 wrote:
It appears the general consensus is that the pre-order is interesting, but lacking in needed detail. I'd have to agree. To put it terms perhaps a bit to harsh it seems we don't know exactly what we are pre-ordering, when we can pre-order it, or the cost to pre-order vs buying normal retail. I think the more SW can do to address these gaps in our knowledge the more motivated I might feel to place a pre-order. I hope this bit of feedback helps.

Your opinion is very rational and appreciated. It's true we haven't provided too many details but (in our way of thinking at least) that's also why we are ultra-discounting the deals though, to reward those who still believe we'll pull this through nicely without them having seen the final product. To give an idea, each Matriarch is going to retail around 20-25 euros, so that alone is like more than half of what the Elisa and Isabella levels cost.

djh2121 wrote:
p.s. I think a careful rewrite of the Laura package is in order. Without careful reading it's not clear that package includes three vehicles (two tanks + pillar of faith), and Laura seems less worthwhile without this information.

The Laura level doesn't include three tanks thought, it includes two. The Pillar of Faith is an additional kit that can be placed atop one of the two versions to make it a larger version, it's still two tanks in the kit however. You can safely calculate each tank will not go below 45 euros retail.

friareriner wrote:
Is the bonus sprue mentioned more Sisters or more options?

More Sisters. Also, with the occassion, allow us to clarify that the bonus sprue is only at Tier-1 and not every box of the offers.

 Smokestack wrote:
So the 2 box level with 2 resin characters is around $75 us. During the kickstarter 2 boxes and 1 character was $50 us. And there are no stretch goals here... And delivery is estimated at October. So we don't get updates or the ability to give feed back while its being developed.
It does come with free shipping though. I think I am probably out.

A rational posistion which I respect but I'd like to clarify that during the KS the boxes included 10 minis and not 20. On top of that we are not having parts cast in resin, the sprues will allow everything to be full plastic. Granted, there were stretch goals. But we as you too noted offer free shipping to counterbalance that plus shortened the delivery period by 4 months.


I think I answered everything, we'll be back next week when work rythms will hopefully allow us to interact with more time in our hands. Thanks all, comments and questions are as always very welcome! :-)

Thanks for the reply SW. Perhaps the fact that I still misunderstood the contents of the Laura package, despite reading it several times, is evidence enough of its lack of sufficient clarity to warrant a bit of editing?

Also, I'm glad to see that you've given some hard numbers as to the discount on offer. I certainly respect that you want to reward the customers who have the most confidence in your business. That is quite commendable. I'm very much looking forward to seeing the size comparison of the matriarchs to the standard troops as was mentioned in the comments to update 15 on KS. Since this would be my first time purchasing from SW and the details are, as you agree scant, I'm looking over all of the available information very carefully before making my decision.

@djh2121
We rely mainly on Angelos' editing to be honest, he holds a cambridge university certificate of proficiency in english so mostly we count on him. If you spot any mistakes, it's on him! :-p
Seriously now, if you have an alternative way you feel would help users comprehend the Laura option best, by all means we would appreciate very much if you send it to us, english is not our native language after all! :-D

As for the size comparison pictures with a Matriarch to show their size, I think we are very close to posting an advanced WiP next to another mini we are also sculpting, most probably early next week.

I've never purchased from Shieldwolf before - it sounds like all these items, specifically the tanks, will be available for individual purchase at a later date? I'd love to buy several Pillars of Faith once they're available

Thank you @Sentopnaut.
Yes, the items will be later made available via our webstore individually (the fantasy Griffantropii will go in packs of three), but the pre-orders we are currently taking will have to ship first before normal retail is available.

Happy to help:

The paladin spirit lives within you! This is the ultimate army you can field in space battles! Laura contains of 80 (eighty) hard plastic multipart Sister of Faith. The sheer fire power of this massive force will overwhelm even the most hardened of enemies.

To help oversee your victory, your Sisters of Faith infantry will be led by 2 (two) polyurethane resin Heroines of Faith as well as a Sister of Faith Army Banner Bearer. The bearer casually holsters her gun while hoisting the army’s banner high and lecturing her foes, certain that her faith will protect her.

In case this avalanche of bodies doesn't suffice, this army also fields two tanks! The tanks are supplied with additional parts with which to customize them. For example, you can build one to carry a flaming gun, the "Katharsis" variant, or even a rocket launcher, "The Preacher" variant.

As a last sweet touch, an extra kit is supplied with which you can convert one of the tanks into a multi-level "Pillar of Faith" variant. The "Pillar of Faith" is a towering tank with a crew member popping out from the open hatch to overlook the destruction and dismay delivered to all those who stand against the Sisters of Faith.

Only two tanks with no options to add more and you have to go basically all in to get them? I have no problem spending the $200 but two tanks is just really weak.

I may have to stay out of this one, doesn't fill the bill for the type of army I would want to field and having to double down would be really expensive just to get what I need with way too many extra sisters if I went for double to get the four tanks I need.

So, some of this looks really cool, but the website, and some of these responses, have an air of evasion about them that isn't much salved by the 'canceled funding' thing. I love the concept, and what I can see of some of the minis looks good - though the heavy machine gun sister barely looks like part of the same line as those heroine models - would just like more to judge by.

@djh2121
That has been highly appreciated :-D
Thank you very much, the text has already been updated!

@angel of death
Two tanks with 3 different options, 80 multi-part plastic minis and 3 resin characters. For 160 euros and free shipping worldwide. I fully agree with you it might not fit your needs (as you naturally know best what you'd like included in your army, no debate there!) but we find it anything but 'really weak as an offer'.
Funny fact: Actually there were initially 5 tiers planned, there was the 260 euros one. I take it that would be the "all in" level. We decided to drop the Level-5 for both fantasy and sci-fi, trying to keep things simple. :-)

@Hanksingle
I won't argue with anyone requesting "more info, pictures etc". We will be showing more things as we go ahead, we simply can't risk showing anything that won't make it into the sprues, make a mistake once, it can happen, make it twice, nope. Good intentions on preorders don't count when taking in people's money and trust.

What I cannot allow to let pass by without commenting is the canceled funding thing (on which we can perhaps debate for hours and hours). We are people who deal and try fixing any issues, we don't look the other way, that's not us. From our point of view, on the "Warmaidens&Dragonbreds" we secured the backers first and secured the company second, everyone safe. It was the right thing to do. Did anyone lose money on this? Yes obviously Shieldwolf did, nobody else. Did everyone involved, including the backers lose time? Yes. We apologise for that and we keep on pushing on creating, not abbandoning our effort and the trust of the backers behind us. Are we blameless? No, there were mistakes in the structure of the project, we guess that's also why there's the cancel option on the platfrom itself. It is beyond our comprehension how we even have to explain ourselves more than we already have, Angelos wrote a very detailed update to why the project ended, I can find it and link it for you if you like. But Kickstarter projects which hit high numbers and cost people money but completly failed to deliver what was promised in any terms (quality, timeframe, minis etc) they are... successful. Sorry, that's not the way we see it, but we won't make the difference in changing kickstarter nor any crowdfunding platform for that matter, so we simply prefer to remain honest with the people who interact with us. Do we have a 100% track record in delivering what we take money for? Yes. We mean to keep it that way.

I appreciate the explanation. I'll certainly keep my eyes open for what gets posted next. Good luck!

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

@angel of death
Two tanks with 3 different options, 80 multi-part plastic minis and 3 resin characters. For 160 euros and free shipping worldwide. I fully agree with you it might not fit your needs (as you naturally know best what you'd like included in your army, no debate there!) but we find it anything but 'really weak as an offer'.
Funny fact: Actually there were initially 5 tiers planned, there was the 260 euros one. I take it that would be the "all in" level. We decided to drop the Level-5 for both fantasy and sci-fi, trying to keep things simple. :-)

Not going to disagree with you. The value is definately there and had this come out prior to Raging Heroes TGG2 kickstarter I would be all over it. Having said that I got my infantry built up including my replacement for seraphim as well. I would like a little more rank and file in the range of 20 ish troops since I already have around 40 regular infantry models. The main need is tanks basically 2x immolators and 2x exodists to fill out my army. The resin models would fit well for heros. So yes the offer is good, really good to be honest in comparison to what I paid for my TGG2 sisters, however, having already made that purchase what you are offering doesn't fit my particular needs.

If there was a 40 infantry, with heros and 4 tank option that would be my niche. Your tanks and models look fantastic but dropping $200 on two tanks and additional infantry with no way to add the additional two tanks is where my issues lie. I think you are missing your mark by only offering one option that only offers two tanks. As even someone wanting to start a Sisters style army is going to be looking at minimum 2 transports and 2 exorcists and although they can use rhinos immolators are too good of an option not to have.

Shieldwolf, Victrix miniatures often post a digital render of a sprue layout months ahead of actual production. Any chance of that here?

I’m not putting money down when I don’t know what I’m buying.

SW, I do believe angel of death's point is worthy of consideration. Perhaps eighty infantry units is a bit much for sci-fi models that are unlikely to see use as a horde army? It's certainly understandable that you would want to keep the fantasy & sci-fi packages as similar as possible, but I can also definitely see the need someone could have for fewer troops and more vehicles in certain sci-fi game systems.

It may be too late to consider changing the options for the SoF pre-order. However, this point could be worth contemplating for future offers. Of course, you'll know best what's working and what's not based on the sales you see coming in, but hopefully you'll find my suggestion useful in some way.

MattW wrote:
Shieldwolf, Victrix miniatures often post a digital render of a sprue layout months ahead of actual production. Any chance of that here?.

There's a slim chance we make it on time to show the layout or part of the layout but I am not making any promises, there's more chances we show more 3d prints of stuff that will actually go on the sprues before closing the pre-order period.

djh2121 wrote:
SW, I do believe angel of death's point is worthy of consideration. Perhaps eighty infantry units is a bit much for sci-fi models that are unlikely to see use as a horde army?

True. And true. Then again there's the people splitting the offer in two (which makes it a killer deal compared to the already very competitive Francesca but I accept that's not the case for everyone).

djh2121 wrote:
It's certainly understandable that you would want to keep the fantasy & sci-fi packages as similar as possible [...]

This. We got the lesson during the last Kickstarter (I think I had also discussed it here with someone who proved me wrong as to "why should you care what the other guy gets if you are already getting a really good deal?"). We are not repeating the mistake; sci-fi and fantasy get the same good deal.

djh2121 wrote:
It may be too late to consider changing the options for the SoF pre-order. However, this point could be worth contemplating for future offers. Of course, you'll know best what's working and what's not based on the sales you see coming in, but hopefully you'll find my suggestion useful in some way.

We aren't changing any levels, we have already received payments and it would be highly unprofessional to alter how things stand; to put it in numbers, zero chance of that happening.
I do think however if this pre-order system works out like we plan (please remember it's our first attempt) we can certainly work a bit differently on future ones. We are very pleased to how this has worked out so far and the people's response, we simply need to do our part now and repay that trust. :-)

I really like those tanks a lot but I don't have use for 80 infantry, so I won't be preordering for laura. To bad there's not a smaller deal that includes tanks like the 100$ pledge of the KS.

Also what can the matriach be used as ? Female ogryns ?

@Samko
Thank you! (we are very happy our first sci-fi vehicles have had a good impression).
We'll be making them available separately after the pre-orders have been delivered.

SW I'm happy to her the pre-sale is going well, and I certainly agree with not changing the pre-order packages. I wasn't seriously suggesting that you should change them.

Rather, I wanted to highlight a potentially important lesson that could be used to build for the future. In this spirit, I'd recommend consideration of already existing "Start Your Collection" type bundles. These typically have the template of one HQ, one troops choice, and one heavy support. This structure has already been successful in the market, so perhaps next year or the year after there'll be an opportunity to contemplate whether it might work for you as well.

Guys! You're always sooo close to getting my order and it feels like you trip over the finish line.
80 infantry and 2 tanks...really? How about 40 infantry and 4 tanks? That gets my order. All day, every day. I want to be your biggest supporter, please give me an opportunity to do so.
Tanks, tanks, tanks...

PourSpelur wrote:How about 40 infantry and 4 tanks?

One wonders if this could be made to work as an alternate Laura package were characters and/or the Pillar of Faith kit removed in addition to half the infantry.

djh2121 wrote:

PourSpelur wrote:How about 40 infantry and 4 tanks?

One wonders if this could be made to work as an alternate Laura package were characters and/or the Pillar of Faith kit removed in addition to half the infantry.

Yes! If I want Sister Superior Machine-Gun Maggie, I'll buy the resin as an add on. By offering what I'm sure a lot of people want (about 50% infantry, 50% vehicles) you open the floodgates to multiple orders.
80 infantry is about the max any army will field, where's the incentive to order multiples? A second, identical character? More unusable infantry?

PourSpelur wrote:

djh2121 wrote:

PourSpelur wrote:How about 40 infantry and 4 tanks?

One wonders if this could be made to work as an alternate Laura package were characters and/or the Pillar of Faith kit removed in addition to half the infantry.

Yes! If I want Sister Superior Machine-Gun Maggie, I'll buy the resin as an add on. By offering what I'm sure a lot of people want (about 50% infantry, 50% vehicles) you open the floodgates to multiple orders.
80 infantry is about the max any army will field, where's the incentive to order multiples? A second, identical character? More unusable infantry?

I have been preaching this for days as this would be the true Sci Fi sisters foundation but it all falls on deaf ears. They have made their stand on this issue.

I'd imagine that (resin) tanks made in house are a lot more work for the Shieldwolf team as well as using more expensive materials compared to plastic sprues made by Renedra that just need sticking a box once they're delivered

so more tanks (even with fewer infantry) would equal a much more expensive package

angel of death 007 wrote:

PourSpelur wrote:

djh2121 wrote:

PourSpelur wrote:How about 40 infantry and 4 tanks?

One wonders if this could be made to work as an alternate Laura package were characters and/or the Pillar of Faith kit removed in addition to half the infantry.

Yes! If I want Sister Superior Machine-Gun Maggie, I'll buy the resin as an add on. By offering what I'm sure a lot of people want (about 50% infantry, 50% vehicles) you open the floodgates to multiple orders.
80 infantry is about the max any army will field, where's the incentive to order multiples? A second, identical character? More unusable infantry?

I have been preaching this for days as this would be the true Sci Fi sisters foundation but it all falls on deaf ears. They have made their stand on this issue.

Perhaps they'll yet come around. After all, I doubt that everyone who would buy such a bundle during the pre-sale would do so at the full retail price. Especially, if they had been a backer of the cancelled KS. In fact, I could imagine a person such as yourself being frustrated enough to simply give up and purchase nothing SoF related at all. One wonders how many "angels of death" there are among the ranks of the original backers.

I believe that a majority of backers when they did their KS were like me. They were interested in Sci Fi sisters.

These were the pledge levels for KS.

https://imgur.com/iE24ufx

Not quite sure how they went from offering decent sci fi options to this.

If it costs more for a 4 vehicle option set i am sure people would still pay it, given the option of having a discount, rather then having to wait for retail, but they truly take that option away from their customers. An option from which they were going to do in Kickstarter.

So from the looks of things there are atleast 3-4 people in this very small group who would like a 4 tank sci-fi option. I bet if we did a poll you would see what your customers want.

So i see history repeating itself with the kickstarter and somewhat rushing in. It takes a strong person to admit when they are wrong, which you have done and I like the reapproach and that fact that you were honorable and knew you couldn't fullfill the KS so didn't screw over your customers. However, since this is still the Pre... order phase. I don't see any reason why you couldn't offer other package options. I understand not wanting to do things piecemeal but in all honesty your package options though good for fantasy are less then optional for sci fi. Most sci fi power armored armies do not run foot soldiers or numbers. SOB was the same. As most people will be using them for a sci fi sisters army they have two great options in the current codex for vehicles being the exorcist and immolator. And typically you will want to take 2-3 of each.

With all that said an option for 40 infantry and 4 tanks... reguardless of what it costs seems to be a desire of your customers. One which even though someone can put down a logical reason why they would want that. The counter arguement is, we already started pre orders so we don't want to change it, for the only real reason given seems to be people would want to adjust their preorders which i am sure is a pain but in the same aspect if people did want to change their preorders that means that there is a niche which you didn't see in your plans. Those of us on the side lines who backed your kickstarter and were looking forward to this and having similiar package options are disappointed. Why should we not be...
so that gives us two options. overpay for things we don't need and still be left in the dark for how to get the rest of what we do need
or... just don't support you at all, even though we would like to.

So you penalize those who want to support you by not giving them any discount and basically say, just wait til retail, when you are still in the PRE order phase. This is kind of rediculous and to be honest with you if you stay stubborn then I will just go for option 2 and just convert my own tanks though i would much rather buy yours.

Guys it really comes down to their ability to make the options convenient for them to produce. If they say these are the options to ensure they can get everything produced and shipped on time, then that’s how they have it set up. All the items I’ll be available later to fill up the army, but for pre orders this is how they want to do business. If that means they get less sales now (3 companies all doing not-sisters SOON), then that’s what they have to worry about.

angel of death 007 wrote:

So i see history repeating itself with the kickstarter and somewhat rushing in.

I concur strongly with angel of death on this point. I'm going to quote Angelos from update 13 of the KS below. SW, I encourage you to please either re-read this fragment here or the update in full.

Angelos, Warmaidens and Dragonbreds Update 13:

"What you could not possibly have known is the number of people who messaged us mainly here on Kickstarter (but also on our FaceBook page) stating they were interested on the Sisters of Faith alone and that's the only reason they had pledged ... the project was set up wrong. I assume full responsability for that. People, well, we all have the tendency to ask for the sky and the stars and the galaxy and if possible literraly everything else our mind can visualize, but what we were seeing here was not irrational. It simply showed that what the project was providing was not meeting most of the backers expectations. I write backers and not referring to people "on the fence" or near the bench or whoever hadn't actively placed a single buck in the project's funding, for obvious reasons. When you get that many messages, you simply can't ignore them all unless funding somehow keeps augmenting (which wasn't happening). We structured based on a result that is no longer valid. That is my fault as I was the one who gave the green light to work this way."

I cannot help but see the same core mistake recurring. Namely, as Angelos admits, the KS failed because the SoF were done wrong because they were not placed as the first faction to unlock. As angel points out, now they are once again potentially being done wrong as the bundles on offer fail to deliver on the expectation set by the original KS. To echo angel's point, the KS bundles were compelling because they promised to deliver a playable army, but the pre-order bundles, I strongly suspect, do not.

If former backers were to feel that this were an abdication of the promise made to bring the project back several at a later date, then I would not blame them. After all, they were willing to pledge their trust in SW's talents and stand ready to do so again. Yet now they are being told that their pledge is no longer desired, at least not in any form they intended to make that pledge. I find it admirable that angel is still willing to keep his pledge as best he can. Perhaps others, so rejected, would be unable to convince themselves to do the same.

Now maybe this might seem all just silly talk given that we are seemingly talking about the prices paid for miniature plastic soldiers. However, I think, as you pointed out earlier in response to requests to see a sprue, reputations are built upon promises made and whether or not they are kept, and, further, while a mistake made once is forgivable, the same mistake made twice is not. Please kindly consider what I have said, and if any of these points rings] true hopefully you will find a way to address them.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Theophony wrote:
Guys it really comes down to their ability to make the options convenient for them to produce. If they say these are the options to ensure they can get everything produced and shipped on time, then that’s how they have it set up. All the items I’ll be available later to fill up the army, but for pre orders this is how they want to do business. If that means they get less sales now (3 companies all doing not-sisters SOON), then that’s what they have to worry about.

SW has not stated that they could not offer the hypothetical package we've brainstormed here due to logistical reasons. They've only commented that they could not allow for arbitrary add-ons. It would be best to wait for an official response before making such assumptions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I'd imagine that (resin) tanks made in house are a lot more work for the Shieldwolf team as well as using more expensive materials compared to plastic sprues made by Renedra that just need sticking a box once they're delivered

so more tanks (even with fewer infantry) would equal a much more expensive package

You're forgetting that, in addition to the forty infantry, we've proposed giving up the "Pillar of Faith" kit, which I'm lead to believe is roughly equivalent to a normal vehicle, as well as the three characters. Again I'd say an official reply from SW rather than speculation would be much more valuable.

@djh2121, back on March 9th they stated

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Thank you @Sentopnaut.
Yes, the items will be later made available via our webstore individually (the fantasy Griffantropii will go in packs of three), but the pre-orders we are currently taking will have to ship first before normal retail is available.

Which to me suggests they have already looked at the package totals, costs to assemble boxes of each tier and ship them in X container size, and manpower it would take. To add an a-la-carte option would add considerable amount of time, labor and cost to get all options out the door, not to mention any possible mispicks that would add further costs and I’ll will to a new growing manufacturer. Mantic games still struggles with this and one of the reasons I won’t touch them any more. They continue to run kickstarters with add what you want to your order and that’s where they get into unplanned issues. SW is using a KISS (keep it simple stupid) approach to this with this to ensure fewer problems at delivery. Cutting back on options is a clear showing of that and a great way of saving headaches later.

Brass tacks time.
I want a Not-Sisters army. About 1 tank per 10 infantry, give or take. I was in for the Kickstarter and would love to be in for the pre-order. Shieldwolf isn't offering what I want at this time.
I'm out.
I've literally begged you to let me give you money. I get the opportunity to wait and pay full retail. I was more than happy to pay early and wait for product, both on Kickstarter and on pre-order. Kickstarter had good value and was killed. Pre-order offer now is a joke.
Good luck, you're gonna need it. You had a good idea, a solid lead on the competition and a lot of Goodwill from the community. Looks like you've wasted 2 of the 3 in my case.