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An awful lot of electrons have been used up arguing about the new and previous CSM Codexes on Dakka and on Gavin Thorpe's blog.

I've never read any of the Chaos codexes so I have absolutely no opinion on the matter. I need you guys to decide for me.

Go to it!

I voted Good.

However, whether it was as good as the previous one, thats a different question altogether. I say not quite a good, but still a competent Codex in it's own right.

I believe it is a good Dex, but the old one had so much many more options, but also allowed for a lot of game breaking bs to be pulled out of it.

I have never played Chaos, but the current book looks incredibly boring to me. I consider it the least-interesting current books, which in turn puts Chaos Space Marines as the absolute last army I will ever consider buying.

Good and bad is too narrow a view...

I think it is "adequate", and by "adequate" I mean it is usable, but a far cry from good.

I deliberately made the poll bi-polar to force people to come down on one side or the other.

I am kinda expecting to get a 50/50 result.

Bad is winning by nine votes..

Bad is what it is.

They went overboard in their intent. Basically it is very similar to the original 3rd edition codex. The 4th edition codex is considered by many to have been the best codex ever.

G

If you're coming into the game with no knowledge of Chaos and how it was prior to the anal violation then it is a perfectly serviceable Codex with its only major failings being it's boring power-list (Lash/Oblit/PM's) and generic daemons (which are just deep-striking Marine Scouts with no weapons).

If you're a Chaos player for any length of time (RT downwards) and especially if you a large Chaos army (or multiple large Chaos armies), then this Codex is a directed insult, a book written by a committee of idiots. Eldar lost their Craftworlds and Guard lost their Doctrines - but Chaos lost its soul.

The book is worse than bad - it's a travesty.

I agree... Except the blurb about doctrines.

G

As said before,
Both codecies had bs powergaming parts.

This one is just Lame And Boring.

For me,
that's the biggest sin that can be done for Chaos, ironically one of the most diverse and interesting of all of the armies.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and bad is winning buy almost double,
I sense a theme here.

I like the codex, tho I am saddened by the fact demons were taken out :(

Needs more options. Decent codex although there is a huge lack of viable unit types and builds. Compared to the last one though it's definitely worse.

Codex good.

Lack of poll options BAD!

Poll options limited to get a result,
otherwise the shades of grey would consume us all I imagine.

Or would you have preferred.

1) Best Codex GW has made
2) Good Codex and better than last version
3) Good Codex and same as last version
4) Good codex but worse than last version
5) Bad Codex yet still better than the last
6) Bad Codex but the same old swill for Chaos
7) Bad Codex and worse than than the last one
8) An abomination, and all who disagree need to write a thesis on why they are so stupid
9) I can't answer, the pain... it's just too much...

Or something like that.

Makaleth wrote:Poll options limited to get a result,
otherwise the shades of grey would consume us all I imagine.

Or would you have preferred.

1) Best Codex GW has made
2) Good Codex and better than last version
3) Good Codex and same as last version
4) Good codex but worse than last version
5) Bad Codex yet still better than the last
6) Bad Codex but the same old swill for Chaos
7) Bad Codex and worse than than the last one
8) An abomination, and all who disagree need to write a thesis on why they are so stupid
9) I can't answer, the pain... it's just too much...

Or something like that.

I would like to officialy change my vote to option #8

It's not too bad a Codex IF you're new to Chaos. Otherwise, it removes a lot of freedom that CSM players had in the previous 'Dex, and (at least for me) forced a lot of re-equipping/remodeling my existing army just to make it legal again.

As a few people have said, the Codex is alright if you didn't experience Chaos before it, but otherwise it's a huge letdown. The entire army lost a lot of its character, which is a shame when the Horus Heresy is one of the biggest events of the 40k universe.

As a supporter of the flexibility & strength of the new codex - I voted good. Great units, best troops in the game (IMHO) swee all round.

As a sympathiser of those whose armies were nerfd or who were saddened at the fluff change - I respect your opinion.

Im looking forward to the next one - we dont need to go back to the complex mind-boggling exercise of the 3rd ed rules, but the current one is over simplified and tends to very similar builds, and very similar tactics. If only one thing changes, i would like to see veteran abilities back (tank hunters etc). The simple inclusion of these would allow much more flavour to be added, without any consequential overpowering or overpricing.

Oh yeah - I enjoy reading these debates, if only because it shows the love many of us have for Chaos.

Cheers!

I like Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Its flexibility and variety lured me back into the Hobby. It could do with some improvements, but then so can everything.

Hmmm.

If there are only 41 people in the world who care enough to complain about the CSM in this forum. And we extrapolate that to a worldwide total of people who care, mayb 400, is that enough people to direct the business decisons of GW???? What if we made a lobby? What if we signed petitions and recruited other players to our cause?

Could we force their hand in pushing Legions up the design tree??

Orc Town Grot wrote:Hmmm.

If there are only 41 people in the world who care enough to complain about the CSM in this forum. And we extrapolate that to a worldwide total of people who care, mayb 400, is that enough people to direct the business decisons of GW???? What if we made a lobby? What if we signed petitions and recruited other players to our cause?

Could we force their hand in pushing Legions up the design tree??

Doubtful,GWs business decisions seem to be affected by potential model sales much more than what the customer wants,although I guarantee you that if GW had "Legion Battle forces" in the works,you'd see a Legion codex with in a year.

Legion Battle Forces probably wouldn't sell unless discounted (well, no more than a regular chaos battleforce) IMO.

Would be nice though.

I remember getting into Chaos when GW had a sale (GASP!) and got a bloodthirster, 8 Minotaurs, 3 dragon Ogres, Arbaal the undefeated and 20 bloodletters for $50 Australian (Like 80% off!!)

Looking back,
I should have bought all the 4 legions and maybe duplicates!!!

But those days are long gone,
when they think sale now they increase prices. Very disappointing.

Legions Battleforces would also require everything to be plastic, and that ain't happening any time soon.

Plastic Demons,
that would be awesome!!!

Well,
except for the sad daemonettes,
go back to the newer metal models and just make them plastic, everybody wins!!

I'm suddenly reminded of the trailer for AvP:

If Jervis wins...
... we all lose.

Ok, that's not an exact quote...

Granted i have only been playing since last year i think the dex is just as useful as a phillips head screw driver to pull out a flat head screw. I own the 4th ed. dex and have read it several times and cried myself to sleep wondering why they would COMPLETELY ruin a good army.

In the hope for more sales.
Sadly, they were not aiming at Chaos sales it seems

in the realm of good vs. bad, I voted good. I think the codex has some flaws, and I think it did a worse job of serving veteran players than any other new codex in a while, but as a book to build renegade marines, it's actually really good. It's the most complete and distinct of any marine variant codex, that's for sure.

The discussion leads me to suspect that NOONE can write a good chaos codex....

It's a good codex if they release the Legion Codexes.

It's a bad codex if they don't.