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It’s certainly possible for people to surround a model and spoil your day. You mustn’t let them do it. The best defence is to seriously increase the surface area that they’ve got to surround, meaning they need to use more models and travel further to do it.
So for example a solid line of fire warriors, anchored at either end with a big suit or flying tank, is near-impossible to surround. Even if they do, the big suit can fly off, creating a space.
This happened to me the weekend before last. An ork player used da jump to teleport 30 orks 9” away from my lines. He just charged my scouts, but when he piled in he contacted my aggressors, which he then surrounded with his consolation move. So now 30 orks has made contact, suffering almost no overwatch, and I couldn’t shoot them. No problem for my primaris marines - I shot at other stuff and then charged those orks with everything nearby, wiping them out. That’s not really an option for Tau!
The orks couldn’t fight the aggressors, and the aggressors did get to attack, but that doesn’t matter. The point is to gum everything up.
Mandragola wrote: It’s certainly possible for people to surround a model and spoil your day. You mustn’t let them do it. The best defence is to seriously increase the surface area that they’ve got to surround, meaning they need to use more models and travel further to do it.
So for example a solid line of fire warriors, anchored at either end with a big suit or flying tank, is near-impossible to surround. Even if they do, the big suit can fly off, creating a space.
This happened to me the weekend before last. An ork player used da jump to teleport 30 orks 9” away from my lines. He just charged my scouts, but when he piled in he contacted my aggressors, which he then surrounded with his consolation move. So now 30 orks has made contact, suffering almost no overwatch, and I couldn’t shoot them. No problem for my primaris marines - I shot at other stuff and then charged those orks with everything nearby, wiping them out. That’s not really an option for Tau!
The orks couldn’t fight the aggressors, and the aggressors did get to attack, but that doesn’t matter. The point is to gum everything up.
Yeah, it's certainly a great tactic to surround units. I'm just not sure how reliably a Tyranid player is going to be surrounding a unit in my deployment on turn 1. I think it requires a pretty good charge roll or a Swarmlord move but it's certainly a possibility. I need to play some more games against Tyranids players using this tactic to see how worrisome it really is.
Swarmlord is just icing on the cake, an hormagaunt has a maximum theoretical move of 69" per turn on his own. A realistic value is a third of that, but that's enough usually.
If the swarmlord’s around, especially in a kraken list, you can expect a first turn charge. On the other hand if you go first the swarmlord can expect to evaporate into a fine mist on turn 1.
The point is to set your guys up to prevent them being surrounded, because that’s what the baddies will be trying to do - whether on turn one or not.
Mandragola wrote: It’s certainly possible for people to surround a model and spoil your day. You mustn’t let them do it. The best defence is to seriously increase the surface area that they’ve got to surround, meaning they need to use more models and travel further to do it.
So for example a solid line of fire warriors, anchored at either end with a big suit or flying tank, is near-impossible to surround. Even if they do, the big suit can fly off, creating a space.
This happened to me the weekend before last. An ork player used da jump to teleport 30 orks 9” away from my lines. He just charged my scouts, but when he piled in he contacted my aggressors, which he then surrounded with his consolation move. So now 30 orks has made contact, suffering almost no overwatch, and I couldn’t shoot them. No problem for my primaris marines - I shot at other stuff and then charged those orks with everything nearby, wiping them out. That’s not really an option for Tau!
The orks couldn’t fight the aggressors, and the aggressors did get to attack, but that doesn’t matter. The point is to gum everything up.
Yeah, it's certainly a great tactic to surround units. I'm just not sure how reliably a Tyranid player is going to be surrounding a unit in my deployment on turn 1. I think it requires a pretty good charge roll or a Swarmlord move but it's certainly a possibility. I need to play some more games against Tyranids players using this tactic to see how worrisome it really is.
This may be a dumb question, but they don't really need to surround a unit - just a model, right? Since you can't move if there's no gap to move, say surrounded by 3 other models, then you have to move in a way that maintains unit cohesion. That means this dude doesn't move, and the enemy unit stays unshootable, right?
Mandragola wrote: It’s certainly possible for people to surround a model and spoil your day. You mustn’t let them do it. The best defence is to seriously increase the surface area that they’ve got to surround, meaning they need to use more models and travel further to do it.
So for example a solid line of fire warriors, anchored at either end with a big suit or flying tank, is near-impossible to surround. Even if they do, the big suit can fly off, creating a space.
This happened to me the weekend before last. An ork player used da jump to teleport 30 orks 9” away from my lines. He just charged my scouts, but when he piled in he contacted my aggressors, which he then surrounded with his consolation move. So now 30 orks has made contact, suffering almost no overwatch, and I couldn’t shoot them. No problem for my primaris marines - I shot at other stuff and then charged those orks with everything nearby, wiping them out. That’s not really an option for Tau!
The orks couldn’t fight the aggressors, and the aggressors did get to attack, but that doesn’t matter. The point is to gum everything up.
Yeah, it's certainly a great tactic to surround units. I'm just not sure how reliably a Tyranid player is going to be surrounding a unit in my deployment on turn 1. I think it requires a pretty good charge roll or a Swarmlord move but it's certainly a possibility. I need to play some more games against Tyranids players using this tactic to see how worrisome it really is.
This may be a dumb question, but they don't really need to surround a unit - just a model, right? Since you can't move if there's no gap to move, say surrounded by 3 other models, then you have to move in a way that maintains unit cohesion. That means this dude doesn't move, and the enemy unit stays unshootable, right?
Yes exactly. That's why it's a good idea to hae a really close formatin, so that no one model can be surrounded. If they can get just one of your guys you're in real trouble.
Mandragola wrote: It’s certainly possible for people to surround a model and spoil your day. You mustn’t let them do it. The best defence is to seriously increase the surface area that they’ve got to surround, meaning they need to use more models and travel further to do it.
So for example a solid line of fire warriors, anchored at either end with a big suit or flying tank, is near-impossible to surround. Even if they do, the big suit can fly off, creating a space.
This happened to me the weekend before last. An ork player used da jump to teleport 30 orks 9” away from my lines. He just charged my scouts, but when he piled in he contacted my aggressors, which he then surrounded with his consolation move. So now 30 orks has made contact, suffering almost no overwatch, and I couldn’t shoot them. No problem for my primaris marines - I shot at other stuff and then charged those orks with everything nearby, wiping them out. That’s not really an option for Tau!
The orks couldn’t fight the aggressors, and the aggressors did get to attack, but that doesn’t matter. The point is to gum everything up.
Yeah, it's certainly a great tactic to surround units. I'm just not sure how reliably a Tyranid player is going to be surrounding a unit in my deployment on turn 1. I think it requires a pretty good charge roll or a Swarmlord move but it's certainly a possibility. I need to play some more games against Tyranids players using this tactic to see how worrisome it really is.
This may be a dumb question, but they don't really need to surround a unit - just a model, right? Since you can't move if there's no gap to move, say surrounded by 3 other models, then you have to move in a way that maintains unit cohesion. That means this dude doesn't move, and the enemy unit stays unshootable, right?
Yes exactly. That's why it's a good idea to hae a really close formatin, so that no one model can be surrounded. If they can get just one of your guys you're in real trouble.
Bases are round.
If your in base to base I can still surround a model by putting my base into the dip between 2 models, which leaves a gap of slightly less then a base.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/19 13:21:21
Mandragola wrote: It’s certainly possible for people to surround a model and spoil your day. You mustn’t let them do it. The best defence is to seriously increase the surface area that they’ve got to surround, meaning they need to use more models and travel further to do it.
So for example a solid line of fire warriors, anchored at either end with a big suit or flying tank, is near-impossible to surround. Even if they do, the big suit can fly off, creating a space.
This happened to me the weekend before last. An ork player used da jump to teleport 30 orks 9” away from my lines. He just charged my scouts, but when he piled in he contacted my aggressors, which he then surrounded with his consolation move. So now 30 orks has made contact, suffering almost no overwatch, and I couldn’t shoot them. No problem for my primaris marines - I shot at other stuff and then charged those orks with everything nearby, wiping them out. That’s not really an option for Tau!
The orks couldn’t fight the aggressors, and the aggressors did get to attack, but that doesn’t matter. The point is to gum everything up.
Yeah, it's certainly a great tactic to surround units. I'm just not sure how reliably a Tyranid player is going to be surrounding a unit in my deployment on turn 1. I think it requires a pretty good charge roll or a Swarmlord move but it's certainly a possibility. I need to play some more games against Tyranids players using this tactic to see how worrisome it really is.
This may be a dumb question, but they don't really need to surround a unit - just a model, right? Since you can't move if there's no gap to move, say surrounded by 3 other models, then you have to move in a way that maintains unit cohesion. That means this dude doesn't move, and the enemy unit stays unshootable, right?
Yes exactly. That's why it's a good idea to hae a really close formatin, so that no one model can be surrounded. If they can get just one of your guys you're in real trouble.
Bases are round.
If your in base to base I can still surround a model by putting my base into the dip between 2 models, which leaves a gap of slightly less then a base.
I'm not sure I understand as it is hard to visualize what you mean. I think you'd need to be able to move between the gap of a unit screening - sometimes they'll leave the max gap for cohesion to cover more area, and in that case you still need 3 models to surround 1 and lock it down. Other times they'll close that down to block chargers from being able to move through and around, in which case you'll need more than 3 models to trap that unit, right?
The left most black model is trapped.
If you go 2 lines deep the same thing still applies tho red needs 1 more model.
Being in base to base does not save you from being trapped.
Getting around the back isn't to hard with 3" pile in and consolidate or having Fly.
The left most black model is trapped.
If you go 2 lines deep the same thing still applies tho red needs 1 more model.
Being in base to base does not save you from being trapped.
Getting around the back isn't to hard with 3" pile in and consolidate or having Fly.
You're right. That's why I said to anchor the end with something big, which the enemy can't consolidate around.
It's much harder to do if a unit's in two ranks. Imagine if the bottom red dot in your example was a fire warrior, and there were more of them to the right. Now you can't surround that guy on the end of the line. Once the other FWs leave the trapped one in your example is free.
This is actually a situation where small bases help. 25mm base guys can't be trapped if they deploy in two ranks, but they can trap models on 32mm bases or bigger. Even then there's a defence though. A square rather than triangular formation for the defender means that I think the little guys can't get in.
two ranks doesn't save you. If the Bottom red is the start of a second row of blacks instead then you can still put a red in the dip between 2 and since you can't move through your own models your still trapped.
Mandragola wrote: It’s certainly possible for people to surround a model and spoil your day. You mustn’t let them do it. The best defence is to seriously increase the surface area that they’ve got to surround, meaning they need to use more models and travel further to do it.
So for example a solid line of fire warriors, anchored at either end with a big suit or flying tank, is near-impossible to surround. Even if they do, the big suit can fly off, creating a space.
This happened to me the weekend before last. An ork player used da jump to teleport 30 orks 9” away from my lines. He just charged my scouts, but when he piled in he contacted my aggressors, which he then surrounded with his consolation move. So now 30 orks has made contact, suffering almost no overwatch, and I couldn’t shoot them. No problem for my primaris marines - I shot at other stuff and then charged those orks with everything nearby, wiping them out. That’s not really an option for Tau!
The orks couldn’t fight the aggressors, and the aggressors did get to attack, but that doesn’t matter. The point is to gum everything up.
Yeah, it's certainly a great tactic to surround units. I'm just not sure how reliably a Tyranid player is going to be surrounding a unit in my deployment on turn 1. I think it requires a pretty good charge roll or a Swarmlord move but it's certainly a possibility. I need to play some more games against Tyranids players using this tactic to see how worrisome it really is.
This may be a dumb question, but they don't really need to surround a unit - just a model, right? Since you can't move if there's no gap to move, say surrounded by 3 other models, then you have to move in a way that maintains unit cohesion. That means this dude doesn't move, and the enemy unit stays unshootable, right?
That's true. I was tired yesterday and missed that.
Ordana wrote: two ranks doesn't save you. If the Bottom red is the start of a second row of blacks instead then you can still put a red in the dip between 2 and since you can't move through your own models your still trapped.
That is incorrect. You can’t move through friendlies, it’s true, but you don’t have to. The friendly model (in this case the red on the bottom row) moves first, out of the way. Then the guys on the front row can also leave.
Of course if you completely surround a unit then they are stuck. But standing in two ranks does prevent surrounding any single guy. There’s no spot to put 3 attacking models where they are on 3 sides of any defender.
Ordana wrote: two ranks doesn't save you. If the Bottom red is the start of a second row of blacks instead then you can still put a red in the dip between 2 and since you can't move through your own models your still trapped.
That is incorrect. You can’t move through friendlies, it’s true, but you don’t have to. The friendly model (in this case the red on the bottom row) moves first, out of the way. Then the guys on the front row can also leave.
Of course if you completely surround a unit then they are stuck. But standing in two ranks does prevent surrounding any single guy. There’s no spot to put 3 attacking models where they are on 3 sides of any defender.
Yeah, your right. your safe with a double row unless the entire unit gets surrounded.
Can someone direct me as to why "Saviour Protocols" CAN re-direct damage cause from Psychic Powers?
Based on the wording of "Saviour Protocols", it only works against ATTACKS - a word which is used nowhere, and never used to describe, Psychic Powers.
Meanwhile, it's used multiple times during the Shooting and Combat phase rules.
fe40k wrote:
I was going to type some random things, but I re-read the entry of "Saviour Protocols" in Battlescribe;
"If a <SEPT> INFANTRY or <SEPT> BATTLESUIT unit within 3" of a friendly <SEPT> DRONES unit is wounded by an enemy attack,..."
Presuming that's actually the wording - are Psychic Powers even "attacks"?
I don't see the word "attack" used anywhere in the Psychic Phase description, but I DO see it used as a word in both the Shooting Phase, and Combat Phase ("number of attacks", "resolve attacks").
-----
I already posted that. The same can be said about smite. The rules dont give instructions how to handle MW from psychic powers, only from attacks. The game breaks, cant play anymore. Game over.
-----
Psychic Attacks are not attacks - Saviour Protocols do not apply in this instance.
All squads take X Mortal Wounds; while there are concerns about the order the squads take damage in - it ultimately doesn't matter in this instance.
With regards to vehicle explosions/other multiple-unit affecting powers, I'd rule "Sequencing", as you're trying to apply the same rule multiple times (explosion damage across multiple units); but again, it doesn't actually matter - and until it does, there's nothing to be up in arms about. I'm ALL for RAW, and figuring out how to actually play every situation, and figuring out when and where the rules break down; in this case, resolving "one" rule, multiple times (Maw, Explosion, etc).
But as it stands - Drones cannot pass off wounds here. The Commander is not being attacked.
Also, "when X is wounded" in this instance applies to the second part of resolving attacks (Hit, Wound, Armor Save, Damage) - it functions the same as all the other bodyguard rules; you cease continuing the process of attack resolution, instead, you pawn off the potential damage as a guaranteed mortal wound to the bodyguard; you don't roll armor save, you don't roll damage.
The problem is that GW uses the word "wounds"/"wounded" in three cases:
1) The WOUND statistic
2) The second process in the stop of resolving an attack (Hit, WOUND, Armor Save, Damage)
3) The act of suffering damage, "wounding"
Its super easy to do with a 20" move, 7" charge, pile in and cobsolidate, then a second 20" move.
You only need to encircle a single model in such a way that it cannot fall back.
The point of this was not that nids are going to steamroll tau, just that if you are not careful with infiltrators, you can really hand the game to your opponent on a platter. The responses to this really illustrate this.
Traceoftoxin wrote: Its super easy to do with a 20" move, 7" charge, pile in and cobsolidate, then a second 20" move.
You only need to encircle a single model in such a way that it cannot fall back.
The point of this was not that nids are going to steamroll tau, just that if you are not careful with infiltrators, you can really hand the game to your opponent on a platter. The responses to this really illustrate this.
Thought we already covered this - don't deploy this way against Nids, since you'll know what you're facing before you set up your infiltrators.
Traceoftoxin wrote: Its super easy to do with a 20" move, 7" charge, pile in and cobsolidate, then a second 20" move.
You only need to encircle a single model in such a way that it cannot fall back.
The point of this was not that nids are going to steamroll tau, just that if you are not careful with infiltrators, you can really hand the game to your opponent on a platter. The responses to this really illustrate this.
Thought we already covered this - don't deploy this way against Nids, since you'll know what you're facing before you set up your infiltrators.
I was replying to last page, was on mobile and didn't see this page.
Can someone direct me as to why "Saviour Protocols" CAN re-direct damage cause from Psychic Powers?
Based on the wording of "Saviour Protocols", it only works against ATTACKS - a word which is used nowhere, and never used to describe, Psychic Powers.
Meanwhile, it's used multiple times during the Shooting and Combat phase rules.
fe40k wrote:
I was going to type some random things, but I re-read the entry of "Saviour Protocols" in Battlescribe;
"If a <SEPT> INFANTRY or <SEPT> BATTLESUIT unit within 3" of a friendly <SEPT> DRONES unit is wounded by an enemy attack,..."
Presuming that's actually the wording - are Psychic Powers even "attacks"?
I don't see the word "attack" used anywhere in the Psychic Phase description, but I DO see it used as a word in both the Shooting Phase, and Combat Phase ("number of attacks", "resolve attacks").
-----
I already posted that. The same can be said about smite. The rules dont give instructions how to handle MW from psychic powers, only from attacks. The game breaks, cant play anymore. Game over.
-----
Psychic Attacks are not attacks - Saviour Protocols do not apply in this instance.
All squads take X Mortal Wounds; while there are concerns about the order the squads take damage in - it ultimately doesn't matter in this instance.
With regards to vehicle explosions/other multiple-unit affecting powers, I'd rule "Sequencing", as you're trying to apply the same rule multiple times (explosion damage across multiple units); but again, it doesn't actually matter - and until it does, there's nothing to be up in arms about. I'm ALL for RAW, and figuring out how to actually play every situation, and figuring out when and where the rules break down; in this case, resolving "one" rule, multiple times (Maw, Explosion, etc).
But as it stands - Drones cannot pass off wounds here. The Commander is not being attacked.
Also, "when X is wounded" in this instance applies to the second part of resolving attacks (Hit, Wound, Armor Save, Damage) - it functions the same as all the other bodyguard rules; you cease continuing the process of attack resolution, instead, you pawn off the potential damage as a guaranteed mortal wound to the bodyguard; you don't roll armor save, you don't roll damage.
The problem is that GW uses the word "wounds"/"wounded" in three cases:
1) The WOUND statistic
2) The second process in the stop of resolving an attack (Hit, WOUND, Armor Save, Damage)
3) The act of suffering damage, "wounding"
If you look on pg.181 on the side of the page under the Mortal Wounds box (since psychic powers deal mortal wounds), it explains that mortal wounds are dealt out just like any other wound would be. And Saviour Protocols protect against wounds, therefor, they also protect against mortal wounds.Has nothing to do with the fact that it's a psychic power or in the psychic phase.
Also in a totally expected turn of events, the Coldstar was errata'd.
I'm comparing the wording in the FAQ to my codex and they appear identical. Am I missing something, or did I just get a late printing or something?
Edit: Nevermind, I see it now: It says "and" rather than "and/or". It never occurred to me that some toolbag might try to interpret that as allowing five weapons, I thought the intent of the wording was pretty clear. I guess a clarification is good.
On the upside, the CIB got a bit of a bit of buff, only a single Mortal Wound per phase per weapon no matter how many 1s you roll.
On the downside, no revision of the stupid Commander limit, no points drop for Crisis suits or their weapons, and while Battalions and Brigades now give more Command Points, the new Matched Play rules severely restrict spamming the same Detachment or Datasheet. Its now impossible to field more than 3 of anything (except Troops and Dedicated Transports), unless you have specific house/tournament rules to the contrary.
Love it!
Only good stuff for Tau and general game health. A good time to be a 40k player (minus GK and Nids maybe :-P)
Gone is the stupid alphastrike gak.
Gone is stupid spamming of strong units.
Gone are dying crisis to Overcharged CIBs.
Well, my Farsight Enclaves Crisis bomb just got destroyed. Fortunately I was planning to restrict it to only 4 suits + accompanying drones and Farsight but being forced to keep ~600 points in reserves for a extra turn sucks balls, especially if I get second turn and am playing against a DS-less gunline that now has a 600 point advantage for 2 turns. I could put almost 2 HBC Riptides in my army for those points that don't have to wait an extra turn before unleashing bullet-hell.
edit: also, non-FSE Crisis Suits have probably had whatever viability they had stripped away now (I actually always more or less defended Crisis Suits and their current pricing but with their turn 1 deepstrike taken away... ugh. they really need a price cut to be viable in an environment where a turn 1 deepstrike is forbidden).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/20 18:44:10
Adapt, friend. I'm pretty sure beta rules will not stay as is. And Chapter Approved could drop the cost of crisis suits too. Meanwhile I suggest you play something else. Highly mobile forces are my suggestion.
Yeah deep strike for Tau is dead. You can't afford to wait till turn 2 - by that time the enemy is all over you.
You can still drop stuff into your deployment zone, and Tau are one of very few armies that might actually want to. Marker drones with an IA riptide make sense to drop at range, for example.
If GW are going to stick with the deep strike nerf then I think they'll have to adjust the points cost of some units. Crisis suits were already pretty bad - now they are hilariously bad.
It could be worse. Flyrants got the smite nerf, reserves nerf, 0-3 nerf and saw their points go up. Almost seems harsh on them!
Fueli wrote: Adapt, friend. I'm pretty sure beta rules will not stay as is. And Chapter Approved could drop the cost of crisis suits too. Meanwhile I suggest you play something else. Highly mobile forces are my suggestion.
I was actually thinking of adding 2 more Ghostkeels instead of the Crisis unit. Problem is those and infiltrators in general might receive the nerfhammer next as the only remaining units that can deploy up the field turn 1 These rapid changes just make me feel really uncomfortable, why should I spend € 120 on 2 Ghostkeels when they might be next on the chopping block? I just had €200 worth of models harshly nerfed without any of them deserving it (4 Terminator squads of various flavors and the Crisis Suits. Don't have Farsight yet, I ran a 3 man Crisis suit squad in smaller games till now). Problem with these huge balance changes is that this hobby costs a ton of money, and while I do not feel pity for WAAC-top-tournament players who have bought 8 Flyrants I do feel for everyone who just got the expensive models that they simply liked flushed down the toilet. I don't need to be top dog but I at least want my models to be usable in a battle.
But I'm not too proud to admit I'm also just SUPER FETHING SALTY that I only got to use the Drop Zone Clear strat for exactly 1 month (maybe longer if the games I play don't use beta rules) before it received a massive nerf while I was super excited about it
I don't know. I might be overreacting but I just feel kicked in the nuts by this change.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/21 19:12:32
Yeah, you were kicked in the nuts. The beta changes to reserves nerf a load of average-to-bad units (like crisis suits and terminators) for no good reason. I don’t even think it’s needed for flyrants, which are already hit by 0-3, the smite nerf and going up in price.
To be honest though, crisis suits were already pretty bad with any armament other than CIBs. So now they are totally worthless you can safely forget about them until the autumn, when either their points will come down and/or their rules will change... or they’ll continue to be terrible.
I bought the box set with ghostkeel, commander, stealths and crisis suits sort of as a gamble pre-codex. That gamble hasn’t paid off - I now have 4 ghostkeels and too many stealths really. The crisis suits are still on their sprues. The commander might make it into a list at least.
Ultimately though, I’d still prefer for the game to be balanced than not balanced. These changes are good for the game, but bad for our wallets.
Mandragola wrote: Yeah, you were kicked in the nuts. The beta changes to reserves nerf a load of average-to-bad units (like crisis suits and terminators) for no good reason. I don’t even think it’s needed for flyrants, which are already hit by 0-3, the smite nerf and going up in price.
To be honest though, crisis suits were already pretty bad with any armament other than CIBs. So now they are totally worthless you can safely forget about them until the autumn, when either their points will come down and/or their rules will change... or they’ll continue to be terrible.
I bought the box set with ghostkeel, commander, stealths and crisis suits sort of as a gamble pre-codex. That gamble hasn’t paid off - I now have 4 ghostkeels and too many stealths really. The crisis suits are still on their sprues. The commander might make it into a list at least.
Ultimately though, I’d still prefer for the game to be balanced than not balanced. These changes are good for the game, but bad for our wallets.
You can easily play the Crisis as XV8 Commanders, particularly the Iridium suit model.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/21 22:52:05
Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer
So for markerlights, I'm becoming more of a fan of Marker Drones paired with a Drone Controller Commander much like 7th edition's Mark'O design. I put 3 Missile Pods on the Commander along with the Drone Controller so he can stay at long range and still contribute some firepower while boosting the drones. Pathfinders are just way too squishy and they can't move unless they don't mind taking a hit penalty for their lights. I might continue to include one squad of Pathfinders with Ion Rifles as those are pretty nice for their points, at least in some lists.
Speaking of lists, what do you think of this one:
Spoiler:
Detachment 1: Battalion Detachment
HQ:
Commander in Enforcer Suit: Drone Controller, 3x Missile Pod, Puretide Engram Neurochip
Cadre Fireblade
Troops:
6 man Strike Team
5 man Strike Team
5 man Strike Team
Elites:
Riptide Battlesuit: HBC, Twin SMS, ATS, Target Lock
Riptide Battlesuit: HBC, Twin SMS, ATS, Target Lock
Detachment 2: Outrider Detachment
HQ:
Commander in Coldstar Suit: ATS, HOBC, Missile Pod, AFP (usually swapped for Supernova Launcher for 1 CP)
Fast Attack:
6 Marker Drones
6 Shield Drones
6 Shield Drones
Y'vahra Battlesuit
Detachment 3: Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment
KV128 Stormsurge: Pulse Blastcannon, 2 Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator, CDS
Total 1998 pts and 9 CP (8 if Supernova Launcher is taken), all detachments are Bor'kan sept
I feel like it gives me some good mobility with the big suits. I should probably drop something to fit a Target Lock or something on the Y'vahra so its Ion weapon doesn't suffer a hit penalty, but I'm not sure what to drop (let's be honest, the flamer does most of the work anyway). With a lot of turn 1 threats gone the way of the dodo, I don't need quite so much screen, hence the minimum FW squads. Part of my inspiration is wanting to plop 4 big suits on the table at once. It won't make me any friends, but hopefully it will get the job done.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
Mr_Rose wrote: Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
So I have been playing my list with first turn Kau'yon and decided to put in my broadsides in exchange for one of my riptides (I have three missile sides that have been collecting dust) Well the broadsides were actually amazing. Because they are in a big group with Kau'yon and command and control node they pump out 24 s7 ap -2 d3 shots but somehow more impressively they also pump out 24 S5 ap -1 shots that ignore cover and line of sight, all with reroll hit and wound. I am am not sure if the broadsides alone are worth it but with buffs they are very strong and seeing as our buffs are very limited buffing a large unit of broadsides may be more advantageous than buffing a riptide. I am going to be putting seeker missiles on my broadsides and seeing how that works out.
Now I am seriously contemplating shadowsun. Double Kau'yon would be so powerful but not moving for two turns is a great way to get behind on points. Whats more, depending on how you read Kau'yon's rules if Kau'yon is called and you are within 6" you can not move for any reason meaning firewarriors or a riptide that were caught in the first turn kau'yon would be stuck in place for the second round's kau'yon if you called it.
iGuy91 wrote: You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote: You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote: Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
- don't deploy this way against Nids, since you'll know what you're facing before you set up your infiltrators.
~15000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: 
~1900 | Imperial Knights: 
~2000 | Sisters of Battle: 
~3500 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1200 | Tyranids: 
~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: 
