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I don't think I ever put my tankbustas in combat anyway, just loosed the bomb squigs then pinged off rockets all game.

What's more competitive, a unit of Burna Boyz in a Battlewagon, or a unit of Nobs with Kombi-Skorchas in a Trukk (or Battlewagon)?

One offers lots of cheap Str4 AP5 templates. Good for killing infantry, but Orks already have lots of options for that. They also have AP3 CCW's.
The other offers 2W models with Str5 AP4 templates (one use), and Shootas. No slouches in CC either.

Neither of these units is considered "good", mostly because they are over-costed. Given the choice which is the better option?

Tankbustas are still just as good and useful... Instead of trying to spend a ton of points on nobs, pks and tank hammers because we lost their meltabomb spam in CC, load 10 up in a trukk, max out the bomb squigs and just drive around plinking rokkits at things. That's how ive always played them and they are a unit no one wants to ignore because they shred light transports and down FMC's like its their job (because it is!). Don't get discouraged over the meltabomb ruling, ive honestly never been successful in getting a trukk full of them into CC with anything big anyway because the person I play against has been in 40k long enough to know not to let anything called a "tank busta" anywhere near a tank. Honestly, the "nerf" hasn't changed anything IMO, keep a unit in your army and keep em cheap they will always earn their points back with something.

Side note, I want to build up a zhardsnarf conversion and try him out. im limited on my bikes right now so im trying to decide if I should run one big squad with zhard and painboy, and two min size units for troops, or two medium sized bike troops and stick zhard with something beefier in CC like a small nob biker squad with the painboy?

I think you could do rokkit spam elsewhere - on trukks, on buggies, on deffkoptas...

But those things cant fire 11 rokkits a turn from one spot. Still the best and cheapest rokkit spam.

Bomb squigs are str 8, non melta, and don't do much to knights/land raiders. And their shooting is not reliable for taking knights down. It is a huge change.

 Cleatus wrote:
What's more competitive, a unit of Burna Boyz in a Battlewagon, or a unit of Nobs with Kombi-Skorchas in a Trukk (or Battlewagon)?

One offers lots of cheap Str4 AP5 templates. Good for killing infantry, but Orks already have lots of options for that. They also have AP3 CCW's.
The other offers 2W models with Str5 AP4 templates (one use), and Shootas. No slouches in CC either.

Neither of these units is considered "good", mostly because they are over-costed. Given the choice which is the better option?

Good question... Honestly I would have to side with the nobs in a trukk for the main sake of survivability. A battle wagon does have a 14/12/10 stat line, but for the burnas to be any good at all, you have to drive up to burning distance, and at that range, taking out the wagon is almost just as easy as blasting a trukk. Also, you can give the nobs upgrades for close combat. If you wanted to stay cheap, give a few big choppas. Never underestimate the power of a couple of big choppas. They hit with the strength of an autocannon on the charge, and just ask a guard player how much they love autocannons.

Burna boys in a battle wagon:

Pros:
More flamers for fewer points.
Can fire multiple times
AP 3 in close combat if they didn't fire that turn
Battle wagon is harder to kill at range

Cons:
Battle wagon costs over 3x more than a trukk, and getting 15 burna boys is super overkill
Only S 4 AP 5 shooting
Can only ever have a 6+ save
No upgrades unless you wanted to make one a mek
Lack of survivability means you can lose a lot if your wagon explodes.
No character (unless you made one a mek), and absolutely no way to get a bosspole for helping morale
Lack of melee strength means unable to take on various targets
Uses a Heavy slot

Nobz in a trukk:

Pros:
Multiple wounds means less model losses if your trukk explodes.
Scorchas are S 5 AP 4
Ability to upgrade to a 4+ save
Ability to upgrade melee combat and get S 7 choppas, or S 9 powerklaws
Variety of upgrades means ability to take on various targets
Always comes with a character that can take a bosspole for helping morale
Speed of the truck helps to zoom to best locations if firing is not possible this turn
Does not use a Heavy slot

Cons:
Can only shoot scorchas once
Fewer models for fewer flamers
No generic AP 3 for not shooting
Trukk is easier to kill at range if left in the open

Whipping up some example units:

5 Nobz: All with Kombi Scorchas, big choppas, and the boss with a bosspole all in a Trukk with a RR costs 20 meltaguns, (22 if you wanted to give them a 4+)

15 Burna Boyz: In a Battle Wagon with a RR costs 35.5 meltaguns. (27.5 if you did just 10 boyz)

So they're both hefty options, points-wise.

If you want to use Burna Boyz (Who can be fantastic morale weapons, making your opponent move his swarms away in fear), I think using fewer of them in trukks might be best. 11.5 meltaguns gets you 5 in a trukk with a RR. You can get three of these for under the price of 15 in a wagon, and you can threaten more space. If you hit a horde with 5 flamers, and lets say you can get 4 guys per template, that's still 20 hits.

That's my two cents, anyways. Sorry for the lengthy response!

Just had an awesome game today with my Biker/Bully boyz list backed by a Renegade knight. I was playing against my friend who brought the Skyhammer (maxed out assault marines), a White Scars CAD featuring two grav centurion squads with a libby in each in addition to a knight.

It was close all around with centurions and meganobz dying left and right and it all came down to one very important move made soley out of desperation on my part.

Its turn the end of turn 5 on my turn. I have Zhadsnark with 1 wounded biker nob beside him, 2 mega nobz out in the middle of nowhere, a immobilized gun wagon that cant hurt anything with its big shoota and my renegade knight which is out of range to do much.

I am down by four points and all seems lost. Figuring I have lost a great game I decide to send in Zhadsnark for one last charge into oblivion (Cuz he aint no Grot!). He and his buddy (the sole surviving biker besides Zhadsnark) charge in towards the knight. The knight swings 3 times with its strength D sword and..... 1 hit. He rolls a 5 and mulches the poor Nob right off his bike.

Zhadsnark liked that Nob.Zhadsnark was not happy to see his entire WAAAGGHHH broken by this single knight that had wrought so much destruction on his forces. He goes to attack before the stomps go off and perhaps just maybe take this thing out with him. The knight only has 2 HP left

5 attacks on the charge hitting on 3s... 2 hits from his i4 power klaw. He needs 2 3 ups to take the beast down. I roll the dice and am greeted with a 3 and a 5. The great beast dies and there is much rejoicing. Zhadsnark drove in and out of the knight's reach as he sawed his way through its legs causing it to fall.

Surely Zhadsnark would be caught in the explosion and die securing slay the warlord and the win for my friend. We roll the scatter and it goes 11 inches away from where it was right towards two Joakero hiding in a ruin. 1 monkey is destroyed entirely by the blast with a 6, but the other manages to survive.

What an epic achievement for Zhadsnark. Even when I knew I would lose I would go home with a moral victory. At the end of my turn I was down by three points and all seemed lost. We rolled to continue and we rolled a 4.

The next turn consisted of a pissed off monkey firing a lascanon shot and missing Zhadsnark and a sole assualt marine failing a dangerous terrain check and dying. At the end of my turn I manage to score 2 points and get ascendancy for d3. I need a 3 or higher to win and get just that.

After an epic match and incredibly close game it comes down to Zhadsnark clutching it for the team as he takes down the knight, secures an objective and gets linebreaker.

---

In conclusion all praise to bully boyz and bikers. Also the Renegade knight is a great addition to Ork armies I find.

Where can we whine to get more close combat weapon options (other than big chopa and PK)? I just saw the 8 points axe for wulfen and I am super jealous.

 thenewgozoku wrote:
Where can we whine to get more close combat weapon options (other than big chopa and PK)? I just saw the 8 points axe for wulfen and I am super jealous.

Never gonna happen. 'Cos we aint space marines. Or Eldar. Or Tau.

I'd be happy if we get a codex option for painboss and pain boys. Painboys being like the Mek but 25pts and gives the unit fnp. And pain boss having improved doc tools that are a version of the pk but poison 2+ and ap2. Seriously that claw on that model is huge!!!

Another option i would like to see is stikk bomb launcher on all vehicles changed to stick bomb flinga. The bit is in every single ork vehicle sprue and would be a huge benefit to weak ork armor by giving all ork vehicles a single 5++ on the first pen or glance each turn.

Lets not forget, you can only wound models as far as the fkame template can reach. No need for soo many burnas.

Mathmatically, six templates should kill what they hit, if firing at MEQ.

I'm probably going to take seven or eight in a squad when I run them, though I'd probably only do that in a vehicle-heavy list since they're as squishy as boyz and a higher priority target.

I'd not take burnas at all due to ld7. Any glance on a truck or wagon and they're 50/50 to not shoot at all. Combined with all the other disadvantages, i'd probably go for meganobz with an occasional combi-skorcha. Yep, they're ld7 too but at least you're just paying 5 pt for this scorcha.

True. Every time I use Meganobz, I give them kombi-scorchas. Only 5 points for a one time heavy flamer? Yes please. It's great to thin a horde you're facing, and let's not forget that AP 4 is great against Necrons (if they're a big part of your local metta)

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Just had an awesome game today with my Biker/Bully boyz list backed by a Renegade knight. I was playing against my friend who brought the Skyhammer (maxed out assault marines), a White Scars CAD featuring two grav centurion squads with a libby in each in addition to a knight.

It was close all around with centurions and meganobz dying left and right and it all came down to one very important move made soley out of desperation on my part.

Its turn the end of turn 5 on my turn. I have Zhadsnark with 1 wounded biker nob beside him, 2 mega nobz out in the middle of nowhere, a immobilized gun wagon that cant hurt anything with its big shoota and my renegade knight which is out of range to do much.

I am down by four points and all seems lost. Figuring I have lost a great game I decide to send in Zhadsnark for one last charge into oblivion (Cuz he aint no Grot!). He and his buddy (the sole surviving biker besides Zhadsnark) charge in towards the knight. The knight swings 3 times with its strength D sword and..... 1 hit. He rolls a 5 and mulches the poor Nob right off his bike.

Zhadsnark liked that Nob.Zhadsnark was not happy to see his entire WAAAGGHHH broken by this single knight that had wrought so much destruction on his forces. He goes to attack before the stomps go off and perhaps just maybe take this thing out with him. The knight only has 2 HP left

5 attacks on the charge hitting on 3s... 2 hits from his i4 power klaw. He needs 2 3 ups to take the beast down. I roll the dice and am greeted with a 3 and a 5. The great beast dies and there is much rejoicing. Zhadsnark drove in and out of the knight's reach as he sawed his way through its legs causing it to fall.

Surely Zhadsnark would be caught in the explosion and die securing slay the warlord and the win for my friend. We roll the scatter and it goes 11 inches away from where it was right towards two Joakero hiding in a ruin. 1 monkey is destroyed entirely by the blast with a 6, but the other manages to survive.

What an epic achievement for Zhadsnark. Even when I knew I would lose I would go home with a moral victory. At the end of my turn I was down by three points and all seemed lost. We rolled to continue and we rolled a 4.

The next turn consisted of a pissed off monkey firing a lascanon shot and missing Zhadsnark and a sole assualt marine failing a dangerous terrain check and dying. At the end of my turn I manage to score 2 points and get ascendancy for d3. I need a 3 or higher to win and get just that.

After an epic match and incredibly close game it comes down to Zhadsnark clutching it for the team as he takes down the knight, secures an objective and gets linebreaker.

---

In conclusion all praise to bully boyz and bikers. Also the Renegade knight is a great addition to Ork armies I find.

These games are the best games! And you already won at the beginning because you got to play and/or are playing Orks. Good job!

I was thinking about running bully boyz in a bunch of gunwagons but now, it seems, they can't start a game inside, so will have to stick to either trukks or battlewagons. Thinking about trukks + VSG.

 koooaei wrote:
I was thinking about running bully boyz in a bunch of gunwagons but now, it seems, they can't start a game inside, so will have to stick to either trukks or battlewagons. Thinking about trukks + VSG.

Wait for the faq clarification. Most people believe the same codex is not battle brother with itself. It's just one army with the same faction. As is no organized event has made any changes to thier play rules until it's clarified.

 koooaei wrote:
I was thinking about running bully boyz in a bunch of gunwagons but now, it seems, they can't start a game inside, so will have to stick to either trukks or battlewagons. Thinking about trukks + VSG.

Bully boyz in gun wagons win games. The bull boyz formations fixes their leadership gives them fear (meh) and gives then the huge boost from WS 4 to 5. Just bring other things to draw fire and they should make it to combat.

Alright then. What's good for Orks against Tau? I never got the chance to play them before, since they were still pretty new prior to my hobby hiatus. But now I have a mate who's putting together a Tau army and, tbh, I'm a bit worried about getting shot to bits before I get the chance to batter them up close.

Blitz brigade

I agree with the brigade. The one tau player we have admits freely that high AV is the bane of tau. They just don't have a load of weapons to deal with it at a long range like they want to.

Normally, my opinion on battle wagons is that they're too expensive, and die just as easily up close (which is where they're going), but tau are a different story. One of their main anti-tank weapons are fusion blasters, which require close range. So a wall of AV 14 driving towards his lines at full speed (with scout no less) is a terrifying sight for Tau.

Yeah, I'm building a blitz brigade specifically for Tau. Meganobz with a kff work wonders as well, and I'd definitely recommend heavy armor to help shrug off their S5 AP5 shots, otherwise the boyz will die too quick.

Are tankbusta bombs listed as grenades?

 Swampmist wrote:
Are tankbusta bombs listed as grenades?

Unknown...yet. This was asked multiple times in the FAQ first draft comments.

So, they might not even be nerfed by this change; in fact they may be able to attack multiple times per model with them.... Pfffff, the one time GWs rule mistakes helps a lower-tier faction

 Swampmist wrote:
So, they might not even be nerfed by this change; in fact they may be able to attack multiple times per model with them.... Pfffff, the one time GWs rule mistakes helps a lower-tier faction

Hopefully Mork & Gork are sitting on them right now. That's the best hope we have at the moment...unfortunately.

Battle Wagons are way overcosted and it is very easy to target its side armour because it is a very long vehicle.

There is that formation where the Ghostkeel ignores cover and always hits the rear armour, so I don't think BWs will do any better than trukks.

 Swampmist wrote:
Are tankbusta bombs listed as grenades?

TBB's are treated as melta bombs. So goes melta bombs so goes the nation I guess.

Are melta bombs grenades?