Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Behold my Crap Legion Mark One.

HQ-Lord, MoK, Bloodfeeder.
HQ-Daemon Prince, wingless, powerless.
E-8 Possessed, IoCG, Rhino.
E-Dread w/ Multi-melta.
T-7 Thousand Sons, Sorcerer, Bolt of Change, Personal Icon, Rhino.
T-8 Zerkers, 2 Plasma Pistols, Champ w/ Plasma Pistol, Personal Icon, Rhino.
T-8 Lesser Daemons.
FA-3 Spawn
FA-5 Raptors, 2 Plasma Guns.
Roughly 1500.

Basically there are all the choice and combinations I feel are not great in the CSM codex.
I've had 7 games with them so far.
3 Wins, 1 Draw, 3 Losses, though it's not alot of games, it has been pretty average. Some crazy stuff happens, but it all balances out in my experience with them.

If I had to pick a MVP in each of my games it would be a toss up between the Spawn or the Possessed, prob. the possessed. The dread gets an honorable mention.

Oh, and yea, you do not have a pair until you play something like this.

Kudos on getting off the reservation!

And I agree with your (overall, maybe implied) sentiment. Good Generalship means making what you have do the most, not tweaking to crush or exploit. List-crafting is a good skill to have, but real challenge comes from stepping out of your comfort zone and trying something that others have dismissed.

I have played a variation of this minus the raptors and had wings on the DP and lost 3 and won twice. It doesnt do too bad and definitely kudos on playing it. Must mention kinda stole the idea from you on one of your army list posts.

Not only did it take thought, it was a whole different level of fun.
____________

Some more observations:
Target Priority Wut?: My opponent's didn't know what to go for...they knew they needed the rhino's stopped, but after that everything was so equally crap/meh/unknown, they didn't know which to shoot

Dread frenzy:
Blood frenzy was not bad through turns 1-3.
One game had the dread charge 15" into a Monolith (old story).
Hits once, Pens once, Explode Result.
Next chaos turn, walks into the wreck and immobilizes itself.
A turn after that: fire frezies at a building (enemy troops inside and they were the closest thing), explodes the building, killing some Necron warriors, but more importantly (sadly), killing the remaining models of the lesser daemon squad on an objective....

Luckly the possessed had furious assault and got into enough combats with warriors to get phase out.
Else I would have lost that game.

Fire frenzy (bad ones) occued as well. Exploding the TS rhino once. Shooting Spawn in the back once...though they did make most of their cover saves.

__________

Other random things... Possessed scout moving into IG deployment zone turn 1.
Possessed and spawn walking through a mini council on 2 different occasions.
Zerkers outshot Thousand sons.

Blood feeder only hit himself once/killed himself that game, but only once in the handful of combats he ever got into.

Daemon Prince was a decent 'second wave', but even with run, just so slow, almost upsetting, but he did draw some fire, but not alot.

Raptors were funny.
They felt more like Fire Dragons in a serpent.
Always hiding behind rhino's until the pounced and either shot something or charged in, but couldn't do both.

They didn't kill themselve with plasma too much.

__________

Spawn, very random performance as one would think.
Highlights:
Deploying them across from a 5 man combat squad holding a faraway objective from anything.
Anyway, after cover saves all of them make it into combat and after... 4-5 turns of combat the space marines are down and the spawn makes his his way to more enemies and kills itself in dangerous terrain.

Low points:
Charging Tau pathfinders and slowly losing combat over 3 turns and finally dies to no retreats...

I have 2 More VErsions of Crap Legion with different themes, I'll put them up when I can.

I had a list I used that won a couple of local tournaments. Not as bad as yours, but bad:

HQ
Chaos Lord - bike, MoN, Plaguebringer, personal icon
Greater daemon

7 lesser daemons
7 pm - 2 x melta, champ, rhino
7 pm - 2 x melta, champ, rhino
7 pm - 2 x plasma, rhino

6 bikers - MoN, 2 x melta, champ

2 obliterators

It is not "unoptimized", but it uses a lord with a daemon weapon, bikers, greater daemon, and lesser daemons. Careful deployment and diligent play saw te list go 9-0-1 between two tournaments. For 1500 points it could have been a much harder list, but I won a ton with it as it sits. Put the lord with the bikers and all of the units are a nice fluffy 7.

mmm mine is a lil more chaotic, dont have the exact point costs but it is around the 1500

HQ
Lord MoK, bloodfeeder
Fabius

Elite
10 possesed MoK
Dread with plasma

Troops
2 squads of 10 marines with PF and rhinos (enhanced)

Heavy
2 Defilers

Ever have any explosive CSMs?
___________

Crap Legion Mark Three:

This is an easy one, but I have forgotten if I've put it up yet:

Sorc, MoS, Lash, Mount
5 CSM, flamer.
5 CSM, flamer.
42 Spawns.

Sadly I've only had one game with it...and I lost.
But it was down to one wound that I lost the whole KP game by.
It was vs. Gunline Tau and we murdered each other, it ended up only 1 of the 2 squads of spawn charging the last remaining crisis suits at the bottom of turn 7... charging... whiffing and then murdered by return attacks...they lost combat JUST enough to kill the last spawn and his KP...

Crap Legion Mark Two:
Lesser Daemon Spam:

Chaos Lord, 3 Claws, Personal Icon, Bike.
10 CSM, IoCG, 2 Meltas, Rhino.
10 CSM, IoCG, 2 Meltas, Rhino.
20 Lesser Daemons.
20 Lesser Daemons.
10 Lesser Daemons.
10 Lesser Daemons.

I didn't take this list too seriously, but the games I had with them were serious business.

Game 1: vs. Dark Eldar wych spam.
Popped my rides, charged dudes... LD's come in, counter charge side hump.

THey commit, and then the larger LD squads come in........lets just say it was a cluster F*ck.

Game 2: VS. Ork Boyz Spam.
Let me just say.... 20 LD's getting the drop on a max squad of orcs has HORRENDOUS results...almost scary.

And on a consistant basis, it was a terrible game for my opponent.

Game 3: VS. DAEMONS!! (Slaanesh/Khorne)
Who ever gets the charge wins...simple as that. Things died all around, but with T4 and getting the drop on 2 or more multi-charges...was icing on the cake.

I was so impressed with 20 man lesser daemon squads, I include them in my 2000 point lists in my Competitive....DP/PM/OBlit spam list.

Where's the Greater Demon to make things interesting?

Sadly, not enough points.
At 1750, it's supposed to be GD with Chosen with random weapons...and by random... I mean random.

khorne/tzeentch list? will put up proper points/list later

Khorne lord. (yeah just vanilla flavour)

Tzeentch sorc w/ gift, wings
Raptors w/ plasma guns and a tzeentch icon to guard him

Chosen with mark of khorne, 3 pwrweapons, 2 pwrfist
Tzeentch possessed

Bezerkers w/ plasma pistols
1K sons w/ gift sorcerer

Laspred (Predator w/ lascannon sponsons/turret)






...and as many spawn i can fit in there dammit
Hey making this kinda lists are fun!

See, I view a Gift Sorc as a fun choice rather than a crap choice.

Tzeentch Possessed can be pretty durable, but expensive.

Though everything else looks down to the Standards of playing with a pair

lol interesting lists.

I know, and they can drop kick opponents which now makes them interesting, lethal, and full of lolcakes.

Sanctjud wrote:See, I view a Gift Sorc as a fun choice rather than a crap choice.

Tzeentch Possessed can be pretty durable, but expensive.

Though everything else looks down to the Standards of playing with a pair

I was more going for a mix of playing with a pair/for fun i could have gone a vanilla lord with no equipment but thats too easy a Tzeentch khorne run at them list

After trying to make competitive builds for a long time, I think you have the right idea. Building a zany army and using it the best you can seems like a lot more fun.

i love how it's roughly 1500 points in total

GeneralRetreat wrote:And I agree with your (overall, maybe implied) sentiment. Good Generalship means making what you have do the most, not tweaking to crush or exploit. List-crafting is a good skill to have, but real challenge comes from stepping out of your comfort zone and trying something that others have dismissed.

Yet again, we agree completely.

Well, I added it up and it's 1493...so yea...roughly 1500.
Any problem with that?

See, it's even ballsier... not only is it full of crap, it's not even using all of its points allowed

To flesh out my approval of GeneralRetreat's comments, most lists are "full of crap" in that there is no magic unit/list that will reliably win if you don't know how to play it. I think this list proves that "crap" is extremely subjective and usually defined as whatever the *spit* tournament gamers are currently not able to flatten out into a "beat you no matter what happens" snooze fest. Yes, you've got a hodgepodge here but it's not so hard to imagine winning with it as you have. And a "competitive" list could easily produce a 3-3-1 record, too, even with good generalship.

I've had 7 games with them so far.
3 Wins, 1 Draw, 3 Losses, though it's not alot of games, it has been pretty average. Some crazy stuff happens, but it all balances out in my experience with them.

Its an average list, semi-competitive.
What would you expect?

Yeah,
Cool thread...
I think when I get back to playing with my CSM I'll try some spawn spam!

Panic.

Generally, the awesome meter is all over the place with a list like this. It's better if you expect absolutely nothing from anything in your army.

Anyway, the only thing that does perform are the Dust Buckets.......maybe it's because I hate them so much... but they never do anything useful besides be a scoring unit.

IMO make 3 dreads with plasma cannons (dunno if ours can take em, don't have my codex handy). Thats ballsy!

No no.

Taking 3 Dreads with Plasma Cannon AND hvy flamer, with 30 CSM in front of them in bunched up position.
You also have Fabius in the list and enhance those 30 CSM most likely in 6 squads of 5...

THAT is ballsy!

yeah,
I've run a trio of plasma Dreads Loads of times, they don't cause as much problems as you'd expect. and when they work out they work out!

I normally Run them as a 'squad' if one goes nuts and shoots a team mate, it'as not all bad since str7 vs av12 doesn't always end in tears!
(you can turn the target CSM Dread around in the movement phase... so no worries about being shot in the back)

Hell, I almost concider Two Plamsa Dreads proving a cover save for one CloseCombat dread... competitive!

Panic...

Dude.. model the 2 dreads in the back holding up the dread in the front as a shield...obviously with the legs wrecked by a well placed plasma cannon shot...

I'm getting itchy to start drawing out plans for a conversion

yeah
I like the conversion idea, it's taking meat sheild to the next level -> Dread Shield!

But I was running it like this :

..............Enemies Stuff


...Plasma - Plasma
.......2xDCCW

Mostly I found the enemy targets the plasma dreads because they are the current threat, with all that plasma killing his stuffs.
But if they shoot the combat dread he gets a save.
It's only major draw back is while the plasma dreads are shooting, the Combat dread can't use run or he'll move past the plasma dreads.
So he reaches combat later...

Panic...

Yea.... so the Combat dread has a DCCW up the arse of both plasma dreads instead...then dual wields them

This thread is heart-warming.

About as heart warming as watching 8 Zerkers with 3 plasma pistols out shoot Thousand Sons...