Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey everybody. I've got a game at the end of my graveyard shift, and I'm going to give possessed another whirl. This time I'm going to put them in a Landraider (i might possess it too for the hilarity ) instead of a rhino so they might make it across the field/can charge once doing so. I'll be playing against IG fyi, I'm just thinking of how I'm going to tool them up.

I was thinking under the lines of-

Khorne lord w/ powerfist
125

Landraider w/ extra armour (just in case )
235

9 Possessed w/ khorne/tzeentch/Nurgle icon
264/274/284

So I'm thinking, with a Khorne icon I'll get 4 str5 attacks on charge for each of them, 36 vs 27- 9 extra attacks, and against GEQ's hitting on 3's, roughly 6 extra hits, wounding on 2's so 5 extra wounds. I'm a bit meh on it, but it meshes well with the lord (who's there for AT/Anti-dread/He needs a punchy bodyguard)
A Tzeentch Icon will help for the battlecannon/Medusa/plasma/melta/utter pain that is fairly certain to happen after they lay the hurt on something/s. 4++ makes it tempting since i won't have to hug cover so much. Also will help with powerweapons which can put some hurt on possessed.
The Nurgle icon, since the majority of the unit will be possessed, makes the unit much tougher to small arms fire, and protects the lord from shooty fire too. Expensive, but will help against almost anything that isn't a big off cannon.

I know possessed are rated quite badly, but I'm fielding them because 1) i have the models sitting gathering dust which sucks, 2) the models look so good 3) I want to see how they perform in a LR and 4) my poor poor bezerkers need a break, as at the moment they seem to be sticking with the "Khorne does not care whence the blood flows from, only that it does" philosophy/have horribly offended the dice gods

So dakka, What icon would you get for this crew of "should be terminators in that landraider"? and would you have the lord in there? what would you equip him with?

cheers in advance

-edit- Also i run mainly a Khorne/Nurgle list. Do not assume i will have a lash, or would like to do a pole dance (also known as playing Slaaneshi units )

And yes, I'm working graveyard then going to play a big game of 40k. Don't you?

Ok 9 possessed and a Khorne lord in a Landraider...

Lets start with Daemonkin

Roll of 1, scout .... zero use unless you swap the land raider for a rhino and don't take the lord. Moving on ...
Roll of 2, Furious Charge .... again fairly useless Str6 I5 on the charge isn't bad but nothing amazing ...
Roll of 3, Fleet of foot ... With the lord this is useless. Without him first turn assault range of 19" to 26" if this is rolled and your in range might be worth leaving the lord in the Landraider.
Roll of 4, Rending ... Finally a chance to ignore armour saves this is a good roll.
Roll of 5, Feel no Pain ... makes these guys about as durable as terminators.
Roll of 6 Power weapons... that's right you have been give a power weapon but that's not all you also get +1A's for two CCWs probably the best thing you can ever roll.

So ignoring that for now as you can't count on any of those results ... They're 26pts each with only the guaranteed bonus of +1str, 5++ and fearless. They have no option of taking any real upgrades... Basically you can't guarantee they'll work well enough to be worth 26 points.

So to recap, these guys are just too random to do anything but be a laugh ... but if you want to have a laugh fell free to use them

Tri wrote:Ok 9 possessed and a Khorne lord in a Landraider...

Lets start with Daemonkin

Roll of 1, scout .... zero use unless you swap the land raider for a rhino and don't take the lord. Moving on ...
Roll of 2, Furious Charge .... again fairly useless Str6 I5 on the charge isn't bad but nothing amazing ...
Roll of 3, Fleet of foot ... With the lord this is useless. Without him first turn assault range of 19" to 24" if this is rolled and your in range might be worth leaving the lord in the Landraider.
Roll of 4, Rending ... Finally a chance to ignore armour saves this is a good roll.
Roll of 5, Feel no Pain ... makes these guys about as durable as terminators.
Roll of 6 Power weapons... that's right you have been give a power weapon but that's not all you also get +1A's for two CCWs probably the best thing you can ever roll.

So ignoring that for now as you can't count on any of those results ... They're 26pts each with only the guaranteed bonus of +1str, 5++ and fearless. They have no option of taking any real upgrades... Basically you can't guarantee they'll work well enough to be worth 26 points.

So to recap, these guys are just too random to do anything but be a laugh ... but if you want to have a laugh fell free to use them

I'm going to establish right now I am using them for a bit of a laugh its just such a shame having them sit there, and more variety is always good. I'm not playing WAAC here

ok so scout/FF is a downside with a lord, as he will not benefit. This is definately tempting me to put my lord elsewhere in my army. 3/6 results being good (4/5/6), 1 ok (FC [roll of 2]), and the other 2 mediocre with the lord. But how are you getting +1 attack for 2 CCW's? My codex doesn't say that anywhere...

as far as upgrades i was mainly refering to the lord/icon/the landraider

Daemon kin: at the beginning of each game, after deployment, rolla dice on the table below. The possessed unit will have the special rule or extra equipment indicated for the rest of the game.

If they roll a 6 they get a power weapon ... they are already armed with a close combat weapon. 2 CCWs yay!

Tri wrote:

Daemon kin: at the beginning of each game, after deployment, rolla dice on the table below. The possessed unit will have the special rule or extra equipment indicated for the rest of the game.

If they roll a 6 they get a power weapon ... they are already armed with a close combat weapon. 2 CCWs yay!

Touche. I kept looking at the post and my 'dex, took me a minute to see the bolded bit That is rather nice...if you roll a 6

Well, I"m in the +1A for rolling a 6.
But note, not everyong agrees with that. I'm not sure how they interpret it, but it could be an uphill climb for that +1A.

In addition, I say keep them in a rhino, it's the best thing for them.

The LR is much better for zerkers.

Possessed have no 'nades, don't have a fist so is not as 'all-comers' as it should be, and 5/6 of the powers fulfil a counter attack role.

Everything about them points them into a counter attack-role, and that's what's gotten me amazing results with them.

I think giving them a LR is a waste in so many different ways.
If we could get crusades......that would be great, crosses off the lack of 'nades as a problem for Possessed at the very least.

Otherwise, if you want the MOST, if you want the possessed maximized, it would be 8 -10 with a cheap offensive icon or IoCG for the homer in a rhino.

Anything else will have an oppurtunity cost way to high for something already overpriced.

Now, if it's just for laughs, then go with it, but I think it's a waste of time to post here about it (instead you should focus on getting a fight and posting a bat rep about it) as there isn't much tactical discussion if one is just gonna say...." LOL COOLZ, you guys right, but Iz gonna go do this anyway".

Well, maybe not like that, but possessed have been discussed before. Some hate them, others find the functional.../shrug.

I say: if you hate them and have them, use them as aspiring champions... or use the parts for other stuff/kitbashing...

Sanctjud wrote:Well, I"m in the +1A for rolling a 6.
But note, not everyong agrees with that. I'm not sure how they interpret it, but it could be an uphill climb for that +1A.

Sorry but why don't you (or rather they) think that its not +1A? Power weapon is definitely equipment so that gets added; Possessed count as being armed with a single close combat weapon (here maybe?); power weapon + Close combat weapon = +1A.

So they only contention is that they count as being armed with a single close combat weapon rather then just being armed with one?

I say go for it...

Give the lord wings and run him into something else if they want to fleet off by themselves. Use the wings from the possessed kit.

If you are going to use them in a Landraider, you've thrown using the Daemonkin rule out the window. At that point, I'd say give them an Icon of Tzeentch and use them as bodyguards. 4++ is nothing to scoff at, especially on an already sturdy combat unit.

I've messed with them for fun with not near as horrible results as I would have expected, and rolled a 6 vs. Khorne Daemons. They swung the game horribly in my favor MoS is cheap and will always help.

Sanctjud wrote:Well, I"m in the +1A for rolling a 6.
But note, not everyong agrees with that. I'm not sure how they interpret it, but it could be an uphill climb for that +1A.

In addition, I say keep them in a rhino, it's the best thing for them.

The LR is much better for zerkers.

Possessed have no 'nades, don't have a fist so is not as 'all-comers' as it should be, and 5/6 of the powers fulfil a counter attack role.

Everything about them points them into a counter attack-role, and that's what's gotten me amazing results with them.

I think giving them a LR is a waste in so many different ways.
If we could get crusades......that would be great, crosses off the lack of 'nades as a problem for Possessed at the very least.

Otherwise, if you want the MOST, if you want the possessed maximized, it would be 8 -10 with a cheap offensive icon or IoCG for the homer in a rhino.

Anything else will have an oppurtunity cost way to high for something already overpriced.

Now, if it's just for laughs, then go with it, but I think it's a waste of time to post here about it (instead you should focus on getting a fight and posting a bat rep about it) as there isn't much tactical discussion if one is just gonna say...." LOL COOLZ, you guys right, but Iz gonna go do this anyway".

Well, maybe not like that, but possessed have been discussed before. Some hate them, others find the functional.../shrug.

I say: if you hate them and have them, use them as aspiring champions... or use the parts for other stuff/kitbashing...

I'm with Tri on the +1A. It says "...will have the special rule or extra equipment indicated", and only 1 of the results on the chart is a equipment, extra being added to their single CCW...

The problem i got frustrated with, when i used possessed in a rhino, was unable to move>unload>charge, so I'm going to give a LR a whirl . One of their big problems is a lack of powerfist, which is why I've got the lord in there for now.

Yes i know LR's are better for 'zerkers capping/charging transport goodness. I've been using a terminator squad in the LR with combimeltas/flamer/chainfist to spearhead my rush with reasonable success, hence the thread title

this isn't a " LOL COOLZ, you guys right, but Iz gonna go do this anyway", as I really won't know how effective this may be until i try it out. I think I'll give them a Khorne icon for some extra chop, also for guiding 'blits/termicide. They'll be backed up by 5 squads of plagues, and one of my opponents plays chaos (is playing guard today, trying his new army) and detests possessed, So combined with the LR's survivability, i think theres a good chance he will underestimate them and probably let them through.

And hey, they've got to be more entertaining than 9 oblits, plagues and DP's

Dude, what the hell.
I'm not against the +1A, god. I aaid I wasn't, I just noted that (for some reason even I don't understand) there are those that don't 'agree' with this.

________________________-

Charging out a rhino is not that bad: 15" threat range from an unmoved rhino. It just takes a turn to plan.
A LR is paying ALOT to use less brain cells...IMO.

More entertaining that Obliplaguprinces? Hell no! I enjoy the groans and cheese calling. I enjoy side fething non-100% mech lists...but I don't use 9 oblits...

_________________

I think 8 possessed in a rhino would be more suprising/underestimated.

A LR packed with MEQ-ish combat dudes is never a healthy thing for the opponent...

Possessed are fun with Kharne( he doesnt have fleet does he?) as they have the invulnerable save to help them against him.


I actually prefer Khorne Marked Possessed as well.

He does not have fleet...nor Blood Frenzy funny enough.
Though he does seem well with Possessed, I think there is just too much 'kill' to aim for a 2 round assault.

Sanctjud wrote:Dude, what the hell.
I'm not against the +1A, god. I aaid I wasn't, I just noted that (for some reason even I don't understand) there are those that don't 'agree' with this.

________________________-

Charging out a rhino is not that bad: 15" threat range from an unmoved rhino. It just takes a turn to plan.
A LR is paying ALOT to use less brain cells...IMO.

More entertaining that Obliplaguprinces? Hell no! I enjoy the groans and cheese calling. I enjoy side fething non-100% mech lists...but I don't use 9 oblits...

_________________

I think 8 possessed in a rhino would be more suprising/underestimated.

A LR packed with MEQ-ish combat dudes is never a healthy thing for the opponent...

!! sorry about that tired misreading at the end of my shift is a bad thing

Worked fairly well. My rhino's got shat on in the first turn, so i had to footslog- the LR provided a great transport, and the invul saves helped a hell of alot to keep them alive/distracting the opponent long enough. The lord cleaned up 2 tanks, they cleaned up a chimera and a psyker squad, a Platoon HQ, drew a massive amount of heavy fire (Lascannon/cannon fire on possessed vs plague marines on the objectives? yes please!) and eventually after much chipping away died to (of all things) a techpriest and his powerfist wielding servitors which got a laugh as the khorne lord and the Techpriest/servitor all powerfist hugged each other

I did roll scout at the start which sucked, then to see what i might have rolled... 4 "6"'s, 3 "1"'s and a 4 lol. Sucked but thems the breaks. The nurgle icon made them so durable this game- in combination with the LR gave them great survivability.

So at the end of the day, for casual play, yes i will take these chaps again pulling them out every few games is ok, but Bezerkers will probably ride the LR more often for me.

I highly suggest::

8 possessed, rhino, whatever offensive Icon that suits your fancy.

That has amazing results for me, and I don't even like them. They have been MVPs in all my games with Crap Legion...or just that everything else sucked more

Swap Abbadon in for the lord (with 8 possessed to make room in the LR for him) with icon of Tzeentch or Khorne, and chew through everything you can catch.

Who cares about your daemonkin roll? Just kill everything with str5, fearless and invulnerable save.

Flavius Infernus wrote:Swap Abbadon in for the lord (with 8 possessed to make room in the LR for him) with icon of Tzeentch or Khorne, and chew through everything you can catch.

Who cares about your daemonkin roll? Just kill everything with str5, fearless and invulnerable save.

I have mixed feelings about Abaddon. Stats are good, rules are good and Wargear isn't bad. But he cost too much not to become a massive target. I feel if you take him with the 8 spawns in a LR you're asking for everything to shoot at you. After all thats 703pts ...

Tri wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:Swap Abbadon in for the lord (with 8 possessed to make room in the LR for him) with icon of Tzeentch or Khorne, and chew through everything you can catch.

Who cares about your daemonkin roll? Just kill everything with str5, fearless and invulnerable save.

I have mixed feelings about Abaddon. Stats are good, rules are good and Wargear isn't bad. But he cost too much not to become a massive target. I feel if you take him with the 8 spawns in a LR you're asking for everything to shoot at you. After all thats 703pts ...

Vulkan in a redeemer with 5 assault termies is about 650, and I see a lot of players rocking that in lists as low as 1500. A high-powered fire magnet works if the rest of the build is right.

@Flavius Infernus:
Why care about the daemonkin roll?
Because that's the whole point to the possessed.

If you wanted str 5: you'd rather go with Zerkers, the 5++ isn't so much as a bonus as compared to more attacks, grenades, pistols, intitiative boost, and scoring.

HELL:
Take Fabius:
Enhance the warriors and get IoT... boom, str 5, 5++, scoring, Uber Grit, special weapons, fearless.. possible str 10 power fist...

You PAY for the daemonkin roll, to not care about what you get is like saying "I'm rolling with 42 spawn this game..." (<---Which I have done. )

Well actually I do take Fabius, which is why I say Str5 + fearless makes a good assault unit. The invulnerable save is just a bonus (except with MoT, when it actually becomes helpful).

But the Bile army has to be built around enhanced CSMs. If you just want an uber fearless HtH unit to ride in your land raider with Abbadon as his bodyguard, possessed are a better choice.

I think people focus way too much on the daemonkin roll when it's not really the key strength of the unit. Saying the unpredictability makes them worthless is like saying a car is undrivable because you can't pick the color.

If you just want an uber fearless HtH unit to ride in your land raider with Abbadon as his bodyguard, possessed are a better choice.

Better than what?
Whatever that may be, even if Possessed are a better choice to XYZ, joining Abby makes them worse…

5++ flat is a nice bonus for possessed…
But you really don’t have any use for:
Furious Charge, Pistols, Scoring, Frag/Krak grenades, more attacks?
And would rather get a daemon kin table that you are suggesting to use in a setup that makes 1/3 of it unusable, 1/2 make the squad too killy and leave them open for mass shooting, and the last 1/6 is the only power worthy of ‘body guard’ duty.

Saying the unpredictability makes them worthless is like saying a car is undrivable because you can't pick the color.

You have forgotten one thing:
REDZ GOZ FASTERZZSSZ!!! Ork Principle 101.

You may be replying to someone else, but I never said the unpredictability makes them worthless.
Just saying you essentially bought the Daemonkin along with the possessed, it is a unique thing for them and one should maximize its usage…

They’ve traded A LOT to get those tweeks to their profile and then the daemonkin table.
That table pretty much defines possessed…it is an important consideration when you use possessed… you’ve payed nearly 10 points for it per person.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Tri wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:Swap Abbadon in for the lord (with 8 possessed to make room in the LR for him) with icon of Tzeentch or Khorne, and chew through everything you can catch.

Who cares about your daemonkin roll? Just kill everything with str5, fearless and invulnerable save.

I have mixed feelings about Abaddon. Stats are good, rules are good and Wargear isn't bad. But he cost too much not to become a massive target. I feel if you take him with the 8 spawns in a LR you're asking for everything to shoot at you. After all thats 703pts ...

Vulkan in a redeemer with 5 assault termies is about 650, and I see a lot of players rocking that in lists as low as 1500. A high-powered fire magnet works if the rest of the build is right.

That is also an idiotic builds but vulkan has somethings going for him. He boosts x, y and z across the army no matter whats happened to him. Assault terminators are much much better then their chaos counter part. 2+/3++ oh and thanks to V those thunder hammers are master crafted. Finally SM Landraiders are better then chaos Landraiders.

In both cases i think that's too many point on a single unit (even though i have been know to run jetlocks). Possessed may be good or bad .... but they don't stand a chance if you build them up to be too big a threat.

Also if you don't give a FF about Daemonkin then take 8 Chose chaos space marines and 4 power weapons and a mark ... bingo you've got just about as good a unit but more reliable.

Tri wrote:
Also if you don't give a FF about Daemonkin then take 8 Chose chaos space marines and 4 power weapons and a mark ... bingo you've got just about as good a unit but more reliable.

Chosen aren't fearless. Putting them with Abbadon (or any other fearless character) thus makes him not fearless.

They are what they are, and obviously there's better stuff in the chaos list--although there's no better way to get a str5 fearless 5++ assault unit outside of Bile armies. All I'm saying is that I've noticed people tend to overlook the decent statline in their mad rush to bash the daemonkin table.

Who's bashing it?
Most are trying to maximize it and get the most utility out of it.
You are suggesting the opposite.

Str 5/ 5++: well, what do you give up for it? I find the oppurtunity cost to be too high for 'just those'. You may not feel that way, but is there a rationale for it?

They are a bit stronger which is always good and get an inv vs. the more dangerous stuff, but does that trump hitting more, hitting faster, more attacks at the same strength, not going at I1 when going into cover, getting more models per point, same fearless, have a power weapon or fist to be applied to their role, can score an objective, don't take up an elites slot, etc.

So... I will agree it's a decent statline, but ... does that trump a better packaged deal?


Don't get me wrong, (I may not like them) but they are a functional unit when on their own.
They loose unit combos and abilities when joined, the do not do frontal assault too well unless you roll something good, nor can they deal with walkers too well.

Abby is there to help them out with the stuff possessed are not good at...but don't forget, he's an IC, which means his ability to place attacks is limited, the unit can't sweeping advance, he could hurt himself and contribute nothing to combat.

/shrug...maybe I'm just not 'seeing it'... the oppurtunity costs are just crazy to consider IMHO if one wants to look at possessed seriously and apply it in a competitive situations/environment with THAT particular combo.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Tri wrote:
Also if you don't give a FF about Daemonkin then take 8 Chose chaos space marines and 4 power weapons and a mark ... bingo you've got just about as good a unit but more reliable.

Chosen aren't fearless. Putting them with Abbadon (or any other fearless character) thus makes him not fearless.

They are what they are, and obviously there's better stuff in the chaos list--although there's no better way to get a str5 fearless 5++ assault unit outside of Bile armies. All I'm saying is that I've noticed people tend to overlook the decent statline in their mad rush to bash the daemonkin table.

Daemonkin is what your paying for .... Lets compare them to their nearest sibling Khorne Berzerkers.

(Note only different stats will be included; winning unit in green)
P=26pts KB=21pts
P=WS4 KB= WS5
P=Str5 KB=Str4
P=2A KB= 3A (2 base +1 for two CCWs)
P=3+/5++ KB = 3+
So fairly even but due to cost, wargear and rules the berzerkers win. Oh and they get to shoot.

Now that's not say possessed are unusable, Its just you've got to maximise the effects of daemonkin. They preferably want a D.Transport and 8-10strong. Marks are nice and can boost the unit towards the area you want to use them ... attacking you'll want ether mark of Khorne or Slaanesh. Defensively then mark of Nurgel or Tzeentch.

My thoughts exactly Tri.

Though I don't discourage anyone from trying them out in different way.

But in terms of what goes in the LR or is a body guard to Abby, I think at least Tri and I are gonna be suggesting Zerkers instead for the more serious games.

It's not to say we are both poo pooing them.
Tri and I have echoed each other in regards to possessed builds...

8-10 in a rhino with a icon that suits your fancy...(IMO generally an offensive icon as they are cheaper). This is something that works very well in its own standards.

Tri wrote:
Also if you don't give a FF about Daemonkin then take 8 Chose chaos space marines and 4 power weapons and a mark ... bingo you've got just about as good a unit but more reliable.

Chosen + power weapon = 33 points

Chaos Termi = 30 points.

So not even

Oh not forgot about Fabius Biles chaos space marines ....
18pts each +1 strength, fearless .... and since they have 2 CCWs, they match possessed.

In short the only only thing that possessed have (thats for 8pts more) is daemonkin and a 5++.

The chaos space marines on the other hand are scoring can take special weapons, have bolters, bolt pisols, a close combat weapon and frag&krak grenades. Ok may loose some too bad enhancements but such is life.

Its easy enough to build a list with 18pts scoring CSMs. Make each unit 10 strong with all 2 meltaguns, an Aspiring champion with a fist (Str10 FTW ^_^) and throw them in a rhino (with a havoc launcher is nice)

==========edit=========

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

Tri wrote:
Also if you don't give a FF about Daemonkin then take 8 Chose chaos space marines and 4 power weapons and a mark ... bingo you've got just about as good a unit but more reliable.

Chosen + power weapon = 33 points

Chaos Termi = 30 points.

So not even

?what are you on about? putting Abaddon with terminators in a landraider is a sensible plan but nothing to do with this ... (Also you won't be able to take as many people in a a transport & and to i'd also think about taking a pair of claws for 38pts)