Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Its pretty simple:
Can Boneripper be my general?
More pointedly, Must he be my general due to higher leadership.

As I can't find anything that says he isn't a Character, or a Lord. or anything for that matter that would lead me to believe he isn't the general.


Just throwing the question around getting thoughts.

Unless it says he IS a character, I don't think so.

However, I don't have the newest Skaven book, so I'm slightly unsure.

What makes a "character" a "character"? Fantasy doesn't have that kind of rule terminology. normally I assume that a model bought at Lord/Hero level is a character, and he can join and leave as per his own rules.

Whats presented here are two such models. Felix and Gotrex comes to mind as far as being similiar and they're both characters.

Yeah sure he can totally be your general, I see giants leading O&G armies all the time...wait, they can't

If Boneripper would take up a hero slot and be able to be taken on his own - sure. But no - Thanquol is the character and Boneripper is a rat-ogre with a name. No LD 10 all around for Skaven.
As far as terminology in Fantasy - if they are in the Hero/Lord section in the end of the book, they are a character. If they are a named character that can be upgraded in a unit (hence it will say you can only take 1 in the army), then they are a character. Boneripper would normally fit this mold (as you can only take 1), but he isn't an upgrade to a unit and has the "Bodyguard of Thanquol" rule.

Can Boneripper even join a unit? Could the old one? I've only ever seen / heard of him wandering around on his own ...

- Salvage

He can't be your general, but he will be your best friend, maybe more then that if you play your cards right....

Mattbranb wrote:If Boneripper would take up a hero slot and be able to be taken on his own - sure. But no - Thanquol is the character and Boneripper is a rat-ogre with a name. No LD 10 all around for Skaven.
As far as terminology in Fantasy - if they are in the Hero/Lord section in the end of the book, they are a character. If they are a named character that can be upgraded in a unit (hence it will say you can only take 1 in the army), then they are a character. Boneripper would normally fit this mold (as you can only take 1), but he isn't an upgrade to a unit and has the "Bodyguard of Thanquol" rule.

Boneripper Takes up a Lord Slot in the same way that Thanquol takes up a Lord Slot.
What makes Thaquol more of a character than Boneripper? There's nothing in the rules that specifies this other than some sort of unspoken player understanding.

The "bodyguard" rule only specifies that if he's outside of 12" of Thanquol he shuts down, otherwise he's got all the normal rules any other Special Character has.
And as you said , he's not an upgrade. Oh and he can join a unit, Rat Swarms. They're both unbreakable. I double checked to make sure non swarms could join, and they can. Hilarity ensues.

See, all I'm looking for is somewhere there to be a rule that says "boneripper is not character" but everything points to that he is.

Yeah sure he can totally be your general, I see giants leading O&G armies all the time...wait, they can't

Uh, well if you could take a Giant as a Lord, then Yes. Sure.

strange_eric wrote:
Whats presented here are two such models. Felix and Gotrex comes to mind as far as being similiar and they're both characters.

What exactly makes 2 models bought as a RARE choice characters?

Platuan4th wrote:

strange_eric wrote:
Whats presented here are two such models. Felix and Gotrex comes to mind as far as being similiar and they're both characters.

What exactly makes 2 models bought as a RARE choice characters?

Their wacky sense of humor

PLAY THE GAME, NOT THE RULES!

Platuan4th wrote:

strange_eric wrote:
Whats presented here are two such models. Felix and Gotrex comes to mind as far as being similiar and they're both characters.

What exactly makes 2 models bought as a RARE choice characters?

I was going off memory. If they aren't characters then that leaves Thanquol in even more of a mess. As then there's no precedent to back it up.

PLAY THE GAME, NOT THE RULES!

Curious, how do I play a "game" without rules? I know this conversation is very RAW but that's the point of it.
I personally would just take Queek and call it a day w/ LD8. but I'm curious if _as_written_ Boneripper can be my General.

No one has yet to offer a convincing argument to show me anywhere in the rules that says Boneripper taken as a Lord Choice can't be my general.

I'm just trying to shed light on this issue so GW can hopefully notice it and say "oh here's an errata" It's really simple to fix. requires one sentence.

You know what makes it even simpler to fix? A little bit of common sense that a rat ogre automaton isn't qualified to be the general.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:PLAY THE GAME, NOT THE RULES!
You know what makes it even simpler to fix? A little bit of common sense that a rat ogre automaton isn't qualified to be the general.

Words of the Wise.

Sure it works in this instance, but more often than not, in a Fantasy/Sci-Fi setting, common sense decisions like that aren't as easy...

Alpharius wrote:Sure it works in this instance, but more often than not, in a Fantasy/Sci-Fi setting, common sense decisions like that aren't as easy...

Words of the wiser.

You could make a pretty fierce argument for or against many characters/units being the army general. For example, I, as a Bretonnian footslogger, would be rather inspired if I saw the Green Knight take the field for my side's benefit and I think it could be argued that I could use his leadership if he were nearby when I watch him invincibly hack enemies to pieces.

But alas, that is very specifically forbidden.

But Mannfred still has a great rule of thumb for any concerned.

I'm sorry, the fact that he is a Rare choice isn't a valid argument?

Well then, I guess there isn't much else to say. Good luck convincing your opponent that Boneripper is your general.

Cryonicleech wrote:Good luck convincing your opponent that Boneripper is your general.

Or the tournament organizer, for that matter.

heheh, didn't he say he wasn't -trying- to make boneripper his general? I don't see why he'd need to convince anyone.

Cryonicleech wrote:I'm sorry, the fact that he is a Rare choice isn't a valid argument?

Well then, I guess there isn't much else to say. Good luck convincing your opponent that Boneripper is your general.

Boneripper isn't a Rare choice.
What book are you reading?

Seriously, He's under Characters, He's a Lord choice.
The _only_ argument that's remotely valid is that he's listed sort of like a Mount in the back in the summary. However he doesn't operate like a mount.
Doesn't follow any of the rules like a mount or anything of that nature. So, you'd just have to have your TO say "no we're not playing it like that"
and a general house rule to not allow it.

Fluff does not equal rules.

I misread Platuan4th's statement.

Regardless, RAW doesn't matter, because not everyone follows RAW.

My point stands, good luck convincing someone of that.

strange_eric wrote:

Cryonicleech wrote:I'm sorry, the fact that he is a Rare choice isn't a valid argument?

Well then, I guess there isn't much else to say. Good luck convincing your opponent that Boneripper is your general.

Boneripper isn't a Rare choice.
What book are you reading?

Seriously, He's under Characters, He's a Lord choice.
The _only_ argument that's remotely valid is that he's listed sort of like a Mount in the back in the summary. However he doesn't operate like a mount.
Doesn't follow any of the rules like a mount or anything of that nature. So, you'd just have to have your TO say "no we're not playing it like that"
and a general house rule to not allow it.

Fluff does not equal rules.

Really? There has to be a point at which common sense kicks in. This would be that point. If my opponent even THOUGHT of trying to convince me that Boneripper was his general, I'd be picking up my army, wondering what other garbage notions he's got rattling around.

Play the damn game, not the rules.

Hmm, I thought that you couldn't bring Bone Ripper without Thanqual, and that thanqual HAD to be your general.

Arion wrote:Hmm, I thought that you couldn't bring Bone Ripper without Thanqual, and that thanqual HAD to be your general.

Nope. Nothing in Thanquol's rules states that he must be your General. The rules support more that Boneripper _must_ be your general. Since if you have multiple characters
in the same slot (i.e. More than 1 Lord) then you Must choose the character with the highest leadership.

Really? There has to be a point at which common sense kicks in. This would be that point. If my opponent even THOUGHT of trying to convince me that Boneripper was his general, I'd be picking up my army, wondering what other garbage notions he's got rattling around.

Play the damn game, not the rules.

There's never a point where I'm not using common sense. Common sense says I take the Lord Character with the highest leadership to be my General. Guess who's a Lord level Character with the highest leadership? Boneripper. The fact still remains that GW didn't write out the rules even remotely clear. That a playtester could have found this problem within _one_hour_ of staring at this book shows sloppy editing at its finest.

Lastly, If your opponent tries to do something by all merits of the game and rules is perfectly legal and within reason, he has every right to use those rules. Now if you wanna pick up your army and not play him based on the fact that you're scared of a T5 model with 3 wounds and no save who can only join a unit of Rat Swarms then by all means, pick up your army.. Besides I think its totally hilarious that until it gets FAQ'd that a big dumb Automoton keeps the lil rats in line

Regardless, RAW doesn't matter, because not everyone follows RAW.

Very true. Play the game you wanna play. No ones stopping you from saying all skaven are Leadership 10 and have 15 attacks either. But I'm asking a purely RAW question here, not "does this make me sleep better at night?" Kind of thing. I totally wouldn't do this unless it was on a lark to be funny, but by RAW i think it works this way.

I have never seen a body guard be a general lol...

LunaHound wrote:I have never seen a body guard be a general lol...

You can now!

I wish the bodyguard rule had something about "please dont be general kthx" in it :(

Companion monster only have their LD characteristic exist because its needed for monster reaction table.

Its not used for giving free leadership bonus for rest of the army...

I mean does Archaon's Horse turn into general if Archaon is slain? Or any special char's mount?

No.

Your reasoning is only valid if indeed Boneripper was a Mount. Name me all the other Models that are bought alongside another model that operate independently and on their own?

Archaon's horse is a strawman, as it's not the same. The horse is obviously a mount and follows all the rules for a Mount. Tell me, what Rules does Boneripper follow? Mount? Champion? upgrade? nothing in Bonerippers rules suggest that.

Because bone ripper "body guard" is still a companion.
And just like monstrous mounts he reacts to monster reaction table. Like you said there is no specific rule what a body guard does , thus the next logical choice is to look at monstrous mounts rather than "guessing out of the blues"

Actually, he doesn't react with the monster reaction table.