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He comes, he goes!

I've always thought it was rather limiting that The Death Company was so dependent on the number of troops choices (or infantry choices for that matter) one took in the army. I do not recall the exact rules in the former codex; but as I remember the rules were an attempt at reconciling the fluff with the rules: each member of the death company was picked from each infantry squad as the marine "succumbed" to the thirst. I hope in a re-visit to the codex a much better set of rules for the Death company is created... something in the same spirit as the Wolf Guard for the space wolves.

Rikhjard wrote:I've always thought it was rather limiting that The Death Company was so dependent on the number of troops choices (or infantry choices for that matter) one took in the army. I do not recall the exact rules in the former codex; but as I remember the rules were an attempt at reconciling the fluff with the rules: each member of the death company was picked from each infantry squad as the marine "succumbed" to the thirst. I hope in a re-visit to the codex a much better set of rules for the Death company is created... something in the same spirit as the Wolf Guard for the space wolves.

Yeah, in the hard-copy Codex, you rolled a D6 at the start of the battle for each Infantry unit. On a roll of 4+, one member joined the Death Company, and on a 6 you had to add a member and roll again for that squad.

It was a great rule that really emphasised the fluff of BA. Now what do we have?

...but...I don't have time to paint their armor black before the game starts!

Sidstyler wrote:...but...I don't have time to paint their armor black before the game starts!

"If you have insufficent Death Company models, any excess models are lost".

Yes, I still have the old Codex, as it actually shows me how to paint each unit. >_>

So basically it counts on you having a big pool of DC models ready to go.

Bah, I could see that rule coming back then, GW would sell more models.

im eagerly waiting for the new codex, but it does mean that i have to stop building my army now so i dont buy models ill never play since we really have no idea whats coming.

I remember seeing someone play with that rules set. It was the first 40k game I ever saw. I loved that idea and really in a 1500 point game its not like you are really ever going to get over 10 DC models on the board anyways.

Neith wrote:It was a great rule that really emphasized the fluff of BA. Now what do we have?

Emphasized Flesh Tearers fluff, more likely. The current system isn't much better, I admit.

Neith wrote:Yeah, in the hard-copy Codex, you rolled a D6 at the start of the battle for each Infantry unit. On a roll of 4+, one member joined the Death Company, and on a 6 you had to add a member and roll again for that squad.

It was a great rule that really emphasised the fluff of BA. Now what do we have?

1000%, 100 Folds QFT.....IMHO

In an FAQ is said you could field 2 DC Chaplains (D3+3 Each, in addition to Squad rolls) counting as one unit and at a tourney I rolled sickly well and ended up with 18 DC and 2 Chaps all with jumppacks.......Attacks got rolled and pants got pee'ed! But it's all the luck of the roll....and I had 26 painted DC with JP's just in case!

Take rending away... it got nerfed anyway. Give them Preferred Enemy and FNP now that's a unit! I know they will basically have Preferred Enemy with the Chaplain, but maybe give the Chaplain a new ability or make him cheaper.

I'm sorry you all hate the new codex. At the time it was printed, it was balanced and in-line with the DA, Eldar and Chaos codex. Army-wide FC was insane and unbalanced.

Rending isn't what it was, but I still like it.

Then the C:SM came out, with it's 3+ inv saves for th/ss, more capacity for it's transports, game changing special characters, etc, etc. and that threw everything into the bin.

Neith wrote:

Rikhjard wrote:I've always thought it was rather limiting that The Death Company was so dependent on the number of troops choices (or infantry choices for that matter) one took in the army. I do not recall the exact rules in the former codex; but as I remember the rules were an attempt at reconciling the fluff with the rules: each member of the death company was picked from each infantry squad as the marine "succumbed" to the thirst. I hope in a re-visit to the codex a much better set of rules for the Death company is created... something in the same spirit as the Wolf Guard for the space wolves.

Yeah, in the hard-copy Codex, you rolled a D6 at the start of the battle for each Infantry unit. On a roll of 4+, one member joined the Death Company, and on a 6 you had to add a member and roll again for that squad.

It was a great rule that really emphasised the fluff of BA. Now what do we have?

Yeah, but it also wasn't very fair. You were getting a 25-30 point model for 16 points. But that was back then. I personally think that the DC need to just be bought with points. It might be a little less fluffy, but ultimately its more balanced.

Jayden63 wrote:Yeah, but it also wasn't very fair. You were getting a 25-30 point model for 16 points. But that was back then. I personally think that the DC need to just be bought with points. It might be a little less fluffy, but ultimately its more balanced.

I agree. But don't forget taking your "naked" vet sgt out of the squad and getting a DC with a power-fist for free. Cheesy gits.

Just make DC optional and we'll be square.

No making DC optional would take away a HUGE part of what makes blood angels blood angles! If I didn't want to have DC I would play regular marines.

Edit: As it is now you don't have to take DC if you don't want to take them. Granted you pay the points for them so it dosent make much sense not to take them but still there is nothing that says you must take them.

Just because you (as the player of the game) make the decision to have or not have a unit of Death Company Marines in your army, doesn't mean it wasn't a group being crazed at random by visions of the dead primarch.

Rules are not fluff.

Jack

IMHO i liked the old rules for (more numerous) DC.
Wonder if they'll give DC back they're wargear...?

Knowing GW atm you'll get 1000 DC for 10 points (this is overexaggeration).

As a BA opponent I'd love to see the Special Characters get a higher potential threat while increased risk at slaughtering themselves/others in their team. They see visions of sugar-demons.

the_ferrett wrote:Knowing GW atm you'll get 1000 DC for 10 points (this is overexaggeration).

I'll take 2000 points worth......

Neith wrote:

Rikhjard wrote:I've always thought it was rather limiting that The Death Company was so dependent on the number of troops choices (or infantry choices for that matter) one took in the army. I do not recall the exact rules in the former codex; but as I remember the rules were an attempt at reconciling the fluff with the rules: each member of the death company was picked from each infantry squad as the marine "succumbed" to the thirst. I hope in a re-visit to the codex a much better set of rules for the Death company is created... something in the same spirit as the Wolf Guard for the space wolves.

Yeah, in the hard-copy Codex, you rolled a D6 at the start of the battle for each Infantry unit. On a roll of 4+, one member joined the Death Company, and on a 6 you had to add a member and roll again for that squad.

It was a great rule that really emphasised the fluff of BA. Now what do we have?

It was a crap rule. Not knowing how many DC you had at the start of the game blew. The current rules are much more balanced. I'd rather pay extra and get a firm count ahead of time. Yes, the rules are currently less powerful (potentially, you could have crap rolling). But more powerful does not equal better for the game.

Emrab wrote:No making DC optional would take away a HUGE part of what makes blood angels blood angles! If I didn't want to have DC I would play regular marines.

Edit: As it is now you don't have to take DC if you don't want to take them. Granted you pay the points for them so it dosent make much sense not to take them but still there is nothing that says you must take them.

So? Blood Claws are a huge part of what makes the Space Wolves the Space Wolves, but you aren't required to field them in every game. I love the Death Company, but damn if I hate having to account for them in every. Damn. List. Oh, and you have to have a plan to control them, either with Corbulo or a Chaplain, or else you'll be at the mercy of a smart player. And telling someone to just not field the Death Company that you already overpaid for is like telling someone to spend $100 on food and then immediately throwing it away.

It'd be like forcing Marine players to take a Thunderfire Cannon in every list. Oh sure it's an awesome unit but it really screws with your game plan. Or forcing Orkz to take Lootas. Or Dark Eldar and Grotesques. Or Daemonhunters and Daemonhosts.

Besides, in no way does being optional = removed from the codex.

wooo cant wait, my white dwarf with the BA codex in it is falling to pieces lol

@bhsman, Ok yeah I see what you are saying but to me it just seems like they are a key part of playing the army. While getting the Baal Predators and Furioso dreads and jump packs as troops are also nice I always viewed DC as whats makes BA stand out. To each his own. I just don't want to see them get made into something thats an option that everyone refuses to take because of how much they suck compared to other options.

steveb93 wrote:wooo cant wait, my white dwarf with the BA codex in it is falling to pieces lol

Its free online :p and also the white dwarf copy is incorrect as it has many errors and changes were made to the online version

Kirasu wrote:

steveb93 wrote:wooo cant wait, my white dwarf with the BA codex in it is falling to pieces lol

Its free online :p and also the white dwarf copy is incorrect as it has many errors and changes were made to the online version

Yeah, like that pesky error of Mephiston having a good power. Good thing they fixed that for us, and not say adding the stats for missing wargear or giving our rhinos doors. Sigh...

Oh, as for the DC, I like how they are stat wise tbh and I do not want to have to model more of them to give them all disparate gear. Basically, as anyone facing a new codex, I don't want my old models to now be invalid or not good enough. Their rules are fine imho though, I could wishlist things and ask for fleet or charging out of DS, but honestly they're pretty good how they are. I don't have a problem with them being optional though. Even fluffwise if that many marines were going crazy and dieing in every damn skirmish we fight, well the BA would have died out long ago. There are certainly plenty of battles that the BA would fight without the aid of DC members too. I do love the crazy bastards though, delusional psychopathic zealots :')

Emrab wrote:@bhsman, Ok yeah I see what you are saying but to me it just seems like they are a key part of playing the army. While getting the Baal Predators and Furioso dreads and jump packs as troops are also nice I always viewed DC as whats makes BA stand out. To each his own. I just don't want to see them get made into something thats an option that everyone refuses to take because of how much they suck compared to other options.

Fair enough, but you're still making the mistake of letting the choices other people make influence you. That said, Death Company are an iconic unit, and I can't see whomever is writing the new codex turning them into a pile of crap, if only keeping them the same rules-wise but giving them gear options.

Or even something like 1 power fist per 5 models and purchase as in current book.

I hope they come out in Jan- while I've stated that I'd rather see other chapters covered, I'd much more happilly take some BA's for my birthday, rather then a bunch of bugs

Nids are being released in January, and then Beasts of Chaos in Feb. With any luck Blood Angels'll arrive in mid-March or so.

Are Blood Angels players tied to the idea of Death Company being a mandatory, random numbered unit like they are now that are present in every army, or would they be angered by the Death Company being treated like any other optional, conventional unit? They may just throw character out the window and do that for conveniences sake, and make the unit something like Death Company, 0-1 Elite selection. Unit numbered 5+ one man for every Tactical, Assault, Devastator and Veteran Blood Angels Space Marine unit choice in the army. May choose from the options below at the listed points cost:blah blah blah.