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@Salviden, puma713;

The basic concept put forth by carlosthe craven, which seems to make a lot of sense, is that you have four lists that are reasonably well balanced - these are the lists you put forward. You also have four more unbalanced lists, which you send after the lists your opponent puts forth.

If two teams do this, you'll see the alternation such that no team has a truly horrible matchup, but no team will have a really great matchup either. You'll see the balanced lists playing for draws/minor wins/losses, trying to salvage as many points as they can against the other team's heavy hitter lists, while they'll be trying to score massacres with their heavy-hitter lists against their opponent's more balanced lists.

That sounds like a good strategy to me. There is definitely some gaming the matchups.

G

Black Blow Fly wrote:That sounds like a good strategy to me. There is definitely some gaming the matchups.

G

There's a lot of gaming the matchups, almost to the point where it seems like rock-paper-scissors.

Not sure I'd want to spend a couple grand to fly across the pond to do that.

Bunker wrote:

Black Blow Fly wrote:That sounds like a good strategy to me. There is definitely some gaming the matchups.

G

There's a lot of gaming the matchups, almost to the point where it seems like rock-paper-scissors.

Not sure I'd want to spend a couple grand to fly across the pond to do that.

And hence why people on this forum (and others) are criticizing the Team America lists. They see them as all-comers lists and not specialized. That's why people are saying they're playing it like 8 guys playing a solo team-tournament.

I'm not saying that any other countries are doing it better (I've only read a few lists), but I can see where they're coming from.

@Puma

I get that teams are trying to game the system. But why bother gaming the system when you can break it in half? Maybe it's the style they chose to do it in. Personally I'm against copying the way others are doing and setting out to make a name. But I'm an all or nothing kinda guy if I'm paying that much to do anything

Hulksmash wrote:@Puma

I get that teams are trying to game the system. But why bother gaming the system when you can break it in half? Maybe it's the style they chose to do it in. Personally I'm against copying the way others are doing and setting out to make a name. But I'm an all or nothing kinda guy if I'm paying that much to do anything

Oh sure. I got what you were saying and I agree. But for those that don't want to break the system, they should play the system. It's arguable that Team America is gearing up to do that.

There we are in agreement Puma. I think it's a bad idea personally to try and play someone elses style when they've been at it longer than you. Bring your own style and flair and throw them on their back foot.

While I'm not sure about all of the list bravado and dismissal of the tournament structure [this seems especially pointless as all teams will have the same level playing field and will have approched the event eye wide open], I am rather intrigued by this event.

I have looked at the ETC website but can not access it now, can any one tell me when it will be held as I would be interested in following the results.

Hulksmash maybe you can put together a team next year and then you can run it the way you want.

G

Man, that's it ... gotta be BBF vs. Hulksmash on Friday night Fights before the Open.

puma713 wrote:

Bunker wrote:

Black Blow Fly wrote:That sounds like a good strategy to me. There is definitely some gaming the matchups.

G

There's a lot of gaming the matchups, almost to the point where it seems like rock-paper-scissors.

Not sure I'd want to spend a couple grand to fly across the pond to do that.

And hence why people on this forum (and others) are criticizing the Team America lists. They see them as all-comers lists and not specialized. That's why people are saying they're playing it like 8 guys playing a solo team-tournament.

I'm not saying that any other countries are doing it better (I've only read a few lists), but I can see where they're coming from.

I wasn't even taking the format into account. Aside from The IG and Wolves list, the lists aren't very good (and even the wolves list is a drop list). Calling them all comers lists is deceiving as they really don't seem capable of faring well against a mix of opponents, let alone being able to be "gamed" into an advantageous match given the format.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Black Blow Fly wrote:Hulksmash maybe you can put together a team next year and then you can run it the way you want.

G

ohyou.jpg


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MVBrandt wrote:Man, that's it ... gotta be BBF vs. Hulksmash on Friday night Fights before the Open.

That'd be the game I go get dinner during. Many would imagine there being a lot of animosity during the game, I just imagine it being boring watching the two not say a word to each other outside the game when everyone realizes BBF isn't a troll when he doesn't have a monitor between him and everyone.

This gets frustrating. The ETC/Euro view is that a WELL MADE all comers list can't handle mechspam guard, jetseer eldar, fatecrusher demons, etc. all equally well, when that's not true.

There are enough codices available that CAN build just that list that the notional of some team "picking" the perfect list to crush one is just absurd.

If Team America really were building nothing but ACTUAL well-crafted all comers lists, the Euro team would not be able to do a damn thing to beat them through simple list matching. It would come down purely to player skill. That's not necessarily what's happening ... I'll avoid being all critical on TA lists ... but if the ETC has come down to a bunch of people downgrading their 40k competence to thinking of the game as nothing but list-fu and dice rolling ... I'm sad for the state of the global game.

At this point it's really an act of mercy to just end this thread.

Good luck to all those involved,we expect lots and lots of pictures and stories.
And less arrests and convictions this time, with luck.