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Made in us
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





Everett, WA

mxwllmdr wrote:

Why is my truck hood the best spot in my house to take photos?

'Cuz it's got a Mountain Dew on it? Dunno, but the hood has some scratches on it...watch that.

I like the base, but it really doean't say Chaos Lord to me. maybe a regular Terminator or something, but....Yeah, I'm not sure.

How is the scale of the finecast Abbadon? Is it the same size as the old one?

   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Las Vegas, Nevada

Yeah, the truck is truly an Ork Truck. The mountain dew is ever-present. And, yes, I think it is plain, too. The scale is perfect and, yet, different. They did a fantastic job on it. Also, this particular model was very good for the bubbles that are plagueing the Fine-Cast line. I found one very small one on the side of a power fist finger and a fairly bad on on the bottom of the right foot. it doens't effect the stance or stability of the model at all, though, so it's ok. All in all, a very well done model.

You are waaaaay beyond crazy my friend -DSteingass
Yes, everything that changes the entire fething world is overrated..... - DSteingass
...yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose..Viktor Von Domm
...they put Space Marines in tin cans and drop them from orbit, I don't think fuel consumption or aerodynamics is a concern - DSteingass
I think once again my motormouth has brought me into deep... - Viktor Von Domm
he knows no pain...nor fear, he is a riveteer - Viktor Von Domm
We don't do generic, mainstream, normal, or anything of the sort! ^^ - Shrike
You build fething Titans Henry Ford style Max!! - DSteingass

 
   
Made in gb
Nasty Nob






london (all of it)

think maybe a full corpse of a marine or something really bold and in your face like that, that said i never really do that much on 40mm bases so if i was you i would'nt worry about it too miuch

Matt.Kingsley wrote:'Bigfish, Dakka's official Plastic-Fu master'

My ORK project Blog: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/361076.page#2675998
Nova Marines project blog: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/411472.page
tyranid project blog: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/360228.page#7461387 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






Heh. I was wondering how you were going to mount arms on that sucker

Coming together very nicely.
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Las Vegas, Nevada

Yes, a full corpse, that may do it. And thank you Horst. Tomorrow the work begins in earnest on my Thunderhawk Projects. So be sure to tune into those. Also, got my creativity back after a day or two of not working due to injury. Somebody, anybody, take a guess at what this is going to be when complete:








Give ya a hint:



I am sure it won't be hard to figure out but over the next two or three days I will finish it bit at a time. I am at a point in this build where most of the fine detail is done so I am slowing on it and starting other things. Once this, and the Thunderhawk with lights, are done I will be back in this thread full time working on the Nurgly Goodness that the twin Reaver will become. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHA BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!


You are waaaaay beyond crazy my friend -DSteingass
Yes, everything that changes the entire fething world is overrated..... - DSteingass
...yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose..Viktor Von Domm
...they put Space Marines in tin cans and drop them from orbit, I don't think fuel consumption or aerodynamics is a concern - DSteingass
I think once again my motormouth has brought me into deep... - Viktor Von Domm
he knows no pain...nor fear, he is a riveteer - Viktor Von Domm
We don't do generic, mainstream, normal, or anything of the sort! ^^ - Shrike
You build fething Titans Henry Ford style Max!! - DSteingass

 
   
Made in se
Storm Trooper with Maglight






DUDE!! that cut is nasty! :/ hope it heals well.

And I guess that is a laser blaster wepon!
The back end of it.

   
Made in de
Shroomin Brain Boy





Berlin Germany

for me the base also is not right... firstly i think he should stand more in the middle... he looks as if he might fall over backwards...also the base is not special enough...a halfcorpse of a marine...maybe with some fierce clawmarks...that could do the trick...


er...is it a plasma weapon in the making? dunno much of the titan i have to sa<y so even your spoiler didn“t help there^^

after to days you can again wield a knife with that much precision??? you must have some pretty healthy air where you live^^>

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

Seeing your work in detail like that just points out to me how TOTALLY INSANE you really are.



Well done man.

Anvildude: "Honestly, it's kinda refreshing to see an Ork vehicle that doesn't look like a rainbow threw up on it."

Gitsplitta's Unified Painting Theory
 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Las Vegas, Nevada

I'm sorry, I thought you knew. Seven doctors now want to have me committed. I am fighting them but eventually the men in white coats will come to take me away.

Yes, it is the Turbo Laser cooling fins. I am starting another project today but this will be finished this weekend, in duplicate, this weekend. Then I will tackle the carapace mount and weapon which will be a Deathstrike Missile launcher.

You are waaaaay beyond crazy my friend -DSteingass
Yes, everything that changes the entire fething world is overrated..... - DSteingass
...yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose..Viktor Von Domm
...they put Space Marines in tin cans and drop them from orbit, I don't think fuel consumption or aerodynamics is a concern - DSteingass
I think once again my motormouth has brought me into deep... - Viktor Von Domm
he knows no pain...nor fear, he is a riveteer - Viktor Von Domm
We don't do generic, mainstream, normal, or anything of the sort! ^^ - Shrike
You build fething Titans Henry Ford style Max!! - DSteingass

 
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





USA-Illinois- the Chi

Is it a plasma blastgun?

 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Las Vegas, Nevada

The plasma blastgun is a bit more indepth and difficult. The curvature of the front piece is a nightmare to reproduce. The only saving grace for this model is that A) I don't have to make any and B) if I did have to make any the scale is slightly upped from the one that mounts on the warhound which may make it easier.

You are waaaaay beyond crazy my friend -DSteingass
Yes, everything that changes the entire fething world is overrated..... - DSteingass
...yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose..Viktor Von Domm
...they put Space Marines in tin cans and drop them from orbit, I don't think fuel consumption or aerodynamics is a concern - DSteingass
I think once again my motormouth has brought me into deep... - Viktor Von Domm
he knows no pain...nor fear, he is a riveteer - Viktor Von Domm
We don't do generic, mainstream, normal, or anything of the sort! ^^ - Shrike
You build fething Titans Henry Ford style Max!! - DSteingass

 
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





USA-Illinois- the Chi

are you making a P-Fist for the other arm, or two turbolasers. I thought you could only take one turbo laser

 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Las Vegas, Nevada

You can load out on a titan any way you want. But this one will be two triple turbo lasers with a deathstrike on top. My Nurgle will be a power fist and a turbo laser with a triple turbo laser on top, so bad @$$ walking, basically.

You are waaaaay beyond crazy my friend -DSteingass
Yes, everything that changes the entire fething world is overrated..... - DSteingass
...yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose..Viktor Von Domm
...they put Space Marines in tin cans and drop them from orbit, I don't think fuel consumption or aerodynamics is a concern - DSteingass
I think once again my motormouth has brought me into deep... - Viktor Von Domm
he knows no pain...nor fear, he is a riveteer - Viktor Von Domm
We don't do generic, mainstream, normal, or anything of the sort! ^^ - Shrike
You build fething Titans Henry Ford style Max!! - DSteingass

 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





The Great Satan (East Coast)

mxwllmdr wrote:Very happy and excited to see you back and back to work on this. I am very excited about this build and hope to learn a lot from following it. . I hope all is well where you are and would like to ask you to take a look at my Reaver thread. I have been working on my patience and attention to detail and would very much like your opinion.
Above quote lifted from Blackadder's T'hawk thread:

There appears to be very little you need to learn considering the magnitude of your projects and the speed in which you can accomplish them. I am in awe of the interior detail especially. Where did you obtain that information or did you wing it?

Kudos on a fantastic job.

Blackadder

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/10 17:01:47


"It is easier to deceive people than it is to convince them that they have been deceived."
 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Las Vegas, Nevada

First and foremost, you say "very little you need to learn" which means there is something that you think I need to learn. Please, tell me what that is. And as far as what I feel I need to learn:

A) Gimbal joints and joints in general: You use wooden balls and pressed wooden dowel. How? Why? Is it stronger? Is the weight of these joints not too much for the to overshadow the strength they provide?

B) A lot of Lucie looks resin cast from the pictures at first glance, but as I have attempted to capture your attention to detail and accuracy I havefound that your advise on a good single cut file stands true. The edges can be that tight and crisp and clean but how do you do it so consistantly? what is the methodology for this? Is it absolute patience ran or is some of it the tools you use or how you use them?

C) You have a lot of electric goodies with which to compare images for scale and proportion sake. What are they? Are they expensive? Do you have to have a degree in mechanical engineering to use them?

Finally, and to your questions: I winged it, and looked at a lot of pictures. I also have in my possession a copy of the actual assembly instructions for a Forgeworld Reaver Titan. That definatley came in handy. I tried this and that until it looked right to me but I knew when to say it was good enough apparently because there is still so much of it that just doesn't seem right or accurate or clean enough.

And Thanks, Black, for the kudos, but lets be clear, I wasn't fishing for a compliment. I wanna know what the master knows. I wanna be better. Isn't that why we all gather on the Dakka's?

If I am to get up to the 60,000 point Chaos APOC Army that I want and have people be just as pleased with it's appearance as they are loathing of the @$$ whooping it gives them than, I feel that is where I need to be.

P.S. Can't wait for another update on the Thunderhawk!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
mxwllmdr wrote: but I knew when to say it was good enough apparently because there is still so much of it that just doesn't seem right or accurate or clean enough.



Or else, I think, I would still be redoing and redoing. I think I am CDO (because my obsessive compulsive disorder won't allow me to write the letters if they aren't in alphabetical order)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/10 18:34:04


You are waaaaay beyond crazy my friend -DSteingass
Yes, everything that changes the entire fething world is overrated..... - DSteingass
...yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose..Viktor Von Domm
...they put Space Marines in tin cans and drop them from orbit, I don't think fuel consumption or aerodynamics is a concern - DSteingass
I think once again my motormouth has brought me into deep... - Viktor Von Domm
he knows no pain...nor fear, he is a riveteer - Viktor Von Domm
We don't do generic, mainstream, normal, or anything of the sort! ^^ - Shrike
You build fething Titans Henry Ford style Max!! - DSteingass

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







Have I ever told you that you are a lunatic Max?
..And I mean that in the most Khorne Berzerker kind of way too

"dave you are the definition of old school..." -Viktor Von Domm My P&M Blog :
It's great how just adding a little iconography, and rivets of course, can make something look distinctly 40K-adamsouza
"Ah yes, the sound of riveting.....Swear word after swear word and the clinking of thrown tools" "Nope. It sucks do it again..."- mxwllmdr
"It puts together more terrain, or else it gets the hose again...-dangledorf2.0
"This is the Imperium, there is no peace, there are only rivets" -Vitruvian XVII
"I think rivets are the perfect solution to almost every problem"- Rawson
More buildings for the Building God! -Shasolenzabi
 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Las Vegas, Nevada

Thanks! Dave. I appreciate that. Dude really diggin the green. The US Army painted every building that color in the early eighties and by the time I came into service in 1989 it was this nasty Nurgle Puke filthy green that I hope dearly you can recreate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And you aren't the first to say that either Dave.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/10 19:17:56


You are waaaaay beyond crazy my friend -DSteingass
Yes, everything that changes the entire fething world is overrated..... - DSteingass
...yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose..Viktor Von Domm
...they put Space Marines in tin cans and drop them from orbit, I don't think fuel consumption or aerodynamics is a concern - DSteingass
I think once again my motormouth has brought me into deep... - Viktor Von Domm
he knows no pain...nor fear, he is a riveteer - Viktor Von Domm
We don't do generic, mainstream, normal, or anything of the sort! ^^ - Shrike
You build fething Titans Henry Ford style Max!! - DSteingass

 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





The Great Satan (East Coast)

mxwllmdr wrote:First and foremost, you say "very little you need to learn" which means there is something that you think I need to learn. Please, tell me what that is. And as far as what I feel I need to learn:


I wouldn't presume to critique your interpretation, "very little you need to learn" is just an understated way of expressing admiration.

A) Gimbal joints and joints in general: You use wooden balls and pressed wooden dowel. How? Why? Is it stronger? Is the weight of these joints not too much for the to overshadow the strength they provide?


I used wood for strength and the incompatibility of wood with plastic cements and epoxys. Wood supplies the friction I needed to hold the poses and also the sphere sizes I needed for the various gimbals. I couldn't find solid plastic spheres in the sizes I needed.

B) A lot of Lucie looks resin cast from the pictures at first glance, but as I have attempted to capture your attention to detail and accuracy I have found that your advise on a good single cut file stands true.


Offhand I can't think of any part of Lucie that was cast aside from the gimbal sockets. The lower edge of the carapace is filled with resin because the foam core wasn't strong enough to be filed.


The edges can be that tight and crisp and clean but how do you do it so consistantly? what is the methodology for this? Is it absolute patience ran or is some of it the tools you use or how you use them?


When it comes obsessive compulsive behavior you have nothing on me.

C) You have a lot of electric goodies with which to compare images for scale and proportion sake. What are they? Are they expensive? Do you have to have a degree in mechanical engineering to use them?


Just a photo editing suite call "Photo Impact 10", actually it cost about $50 five years ago.

Finally, and to your questions: I winged it, and looked at a lot of pictures. I also have in my possession a copy of the actual assembly instructions for a Forgeworld Reaver Titan. That definitely came in handy. I tried this and that until it looked right to me but I knew when to say it was good enough apparently because there is still so much of it that just doesn't seem right or accurate or clean enough.

And Thanks, Black, for the kudos, but lets be clear, I wasn't fishing for a compliment. I wanna know what the master knows. I wanna be better. Isn't that why we all gather on the Dakka's?


Lucie is more robust than the FW offering, I like the thicker legs and massive hydraulics. Having worked on hydraulic systems I have first hand experience that over-engineering is a detriment to overall performance and longevity of the components especially when cost is not a consideration. Since you have forced my hand, the only thing I feel could be improved on IMHO is your ankle hydraulic cylinders are a tad on the delicate side; but that's only my opinion.

If I am to get up to the 60,000 point Chaos APOC Army that I want and have people be just as pleased with it's appearance as they are loathing of the @$$ whooping it gives them than, I feel that is where I need to be.

P.S. Can't wait for another update on the Thunderhawk!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
mxwllmdr wrote: but I knew when to say it was good enough apparently because there is still so much of it that just doesn't seem right or accurate or clean enough.


That is my problem, I don't!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/10 19:42:17


"It is easier to deceive people than it is to convince them that they have been deceived."
 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Las Vegas, Nevada

I know what you mean about the FW legs not being "robust" enough. I am currently making two Lucians for a buddy of mine who happens to own two FW Lucians. I used his for dimensions and measurements. The were really spindly and thin. he wants them that way though so thats what I'll build. My Mars pattern, however, was oversized by about 5-7% all the way around. the reaver is as dead on as I think I could have gotten it without actually holding one.

You are waaaaay beyond crazy my friend -DSteingass
Yes, everything that changes the entire fething world is overrated..... - DSteingass
...yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose..Viktor Von Domm
...they put Space Marines in tin cans and drop them from orbit, I don't think fuel consumption or aerodynamics is a concern - DSteingass
I think once again my motormouth has brought me into deep... - Viktor Von Domm
he knows no pain...nor fear, he is a riveteer - Viktor Von Domm
We don't do generic, mainstream, normal, or anything of the sort! ^^ - Shrike
You build fething Titans Henry Ford style Max!! - DSteingass

 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





The Great Satan (East Coast)

Your pardon but you asked me for my impression which I stated I had reservations to opine. My contention was that the steering cylinders look a little spindly but that was only my perception based on the cross section of the cylinders compared to the mass of the object in question. I also feel that the steering cylinders on the toe pad of my Lucie are 'way too small for the mass that they are supposed to control especially at the speed Warhounds are supposedly design to achieve where the stress would undo any attempt at changing direction. That is why I laugh at the hypothesis that T' Rex being capable of 40 MPH. Fine if she is going straight possibly but any attempt to wheel would end up with the Rex wrecked. I saw a treatise where the biped Rex was compared to the quadruped elephant. First of all elephants don't run but walk or trot instead with always three feet on the ground. For a biped which moves as we do by throwing the center of balance forward and thrusting the trailing foot forward to prevent a fall to achieve this with only one foot on the ground and attempt to make any turn at all would end in fiasco; broken ankles and mortal injury from the fall. Er what was the question again?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Whoops my mistake it was the Warhound on your facebook gallery that had the thin steering cylinders I apologize for the error.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/01/10 23:31:13


"It is easier to deceive people than it is to convince them that they have been deceived."
 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Las Vegas, Nevada

Drinking and posting again, Black? I was worried I had offended you.

No need for reservations around here, anyway. Always room for C&C. Heck, for that matter, tell me if it just sucks. Whatever the opinion, it will get respect from me. I just wanna learn to be better at this and perhaps , because I know it is already teaching me patience, a better person in the process. Thanks, Black.

As far as your Lucie goes, I find no fault in it whatsoever. I think it is fantastic. The suspension of disbelief plays a part in this for me. The gyroscopic forces necessary to keep a 100 ton behemoth balanced and stable on two legs are technologically beyond our reach but, with suspension of disbelief, I can surmise that they have unlimited, clean, safe and portable power generation in the far, far, far, far future. With unlimited electricity anything is possible. At least I hope it is. Otherwise why am I building this cold fusion generator in my basement?

You are waaaaay beyond crazy my friend -DSteingass
Yes, everything that changes the entire fething world is overrated..... - DSteingass
...yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose..Viktor Von Domm
...they put Space Marines in tin cans and drop them from orbit, I don't think fuel consumption or aerodynamics is a concern - DSteingass
I think once again my motormouth has brought me into deep... - Viktor Von Domm
he knows no pain...nor fear, he is a riveteer - Viktor Von Domm
We don't do generic, mainstream, normal, or anything of the sort! ^^ - Shrike
You build fething Titans Henry Ford style Max!! - DSteingass

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







Yeah, you suck man, just give up already and ship me your failure of a titan there

"dave you are the definition of old school..." -Viktor Von Domm My P&M Blog :
It's great how just adding a little iconography, and rivets of course, can make something look distinctly 40K-adamsouza
"Ah yes, the sound of riveting.....Swear word after swear word and the clinking of thrown tools" "Nope. It sucks do it again..."- mxwllmdr
"It puts together more terrain, or else it gets the hose again...-dangledorf2.0
"This is the Imperium, there is no peace, there are only rivets" -Vitruvian XVII
"I think rivets are the perfect solution to almost every problem"- Rawson
More buildings for the Building God! -Shasolenzabi
 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Las Vegas, Nevada

What's your address, Dave?

You are waaaaay beyond crazy my friend -DSteingass
Yes, everything that changes the entire fething world is overrated..... - DSteingass
...yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose..Viktor Von Domm
...they put Space Marines in tin cans and drop them from orbit, I don't think fuel consumption or aerodynamics is a concern - DSteingass
I think once again my motormouth has brought me into deep... - Viktor Von Domm
he knows no pain...nor fear, he is a riveteer - Viktor Von Domm
We don't do generic, mainstream, normal, or anything of the sort! ^^ - Shrike
You build fething Titans Henry Ford style Max!! - DSteingass

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







HAHAHA

"dave you are the definition of old school..." -Viktor Von Domm My P&M Blog :
It's great how just adding a little iconography, and rivets of course, can make something look distinctly 40K-adamsouza
"Ah yes, the sound of riveting.....Swear word after swear word and the clinking of thrown tools" "Nope. It sucks do it again..."- mxwllmdr
"It puts together more terrain, or else it gets the hose again...-dangledorf2.0
"This is the Imperium, there is no peace, there are only rivets" -Vitruvian XVII
"I think rivets are the perfect solution to almost every problem"- Rawson
More buildings for the Building God! -Shasolenzabi
 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






dsteingass wrote:HAHAHA


Oh come on, give him your address.

The odds of him mailing you a sack of dog poop are only marginally greater than 90%! You stand an excellent chance of receiving a titan!
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Las Vegas, Nevada

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHLOLOLOLOLOLOROFLMAOHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Actually the dog poop sack is sitting at about 65%. I don't dislike Dave, after all.

You are waaaaay beyond crazy my friend -DSteingass
Yes, everything that changes the entire fething world is overrated..... - DSteingass
...yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose..Viktor Von Domm
...they put Space Marines in tin cans and drop them from orbit, I don't think fuel consumption or aerodynamics is a concern - DSteingass
I think once again my motormouth has brought me into deep... - Viktor Von Domm
he knows no pain...nor fear, he is a riveteer - Viktor Von Domm
We don't do generic, mainstream, normal, or anything of the sort! ^^ - Shrike
You build fething Titans Henry Ford style Max!! - DSteingass

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







Hahaha! I could never accept your baby anyways man!

"dave you are the definition of old school..." -Viktor Von Domm My P&M Blog :
It's great how just adding a little iconography, and rivets of course, can make something look distinctly 40K-adamsouza
"Ah yes, the sound of riveting.....Swear word after swear word and the clinking of thrown tools" "Nope. It sucks do it again..."- mxwllmdr
"It puts together more terrain, or else it gets the hose again...-dangledorf2.0
"This is the Imperium, there is no peace, there are only rivets" -Vitruvian XVII
"I think rivets are the perfect solution to almost every problem"- Rawson
More buildings for the Building God! -Shasolenzabi
 
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





USA-Illinois- the Chi

mxwllmdr wrote:Otherwise why am I building this cold fusion generator in my basement?

Sshhhhh you weren't supposed to tell anyone!!!

 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Las Vegas, Nevada

Sorry, Cappy.

You are waaaaay beyond crazy my friend -DSteingass
Yes, everything that changes the entire fething world is overrated..... - DSteingass
...yep... some of the dakka chaps here sure made the joints of my jaw quite loose..Viktor Von Domm
...they put Space Marines in tin cans and drop them from orbit, I don't think fuel consumption or aerodynamics is a concern - DSteingass
I think once again my motormouth has brought me into deep... - Viktor Von Domm
he knows no pain...nor fear, he is a riveteer - Viktor Von Domm
We don't do generic, mainstream, normal, or anything of the sort! ^^ - Shrike
You build fething Titans Henry Ford style Max!! - DSteingass

 
   
Made in gb
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






I don't know!

LOL!

   
 
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