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They completely revamped the image of Stormtroopers, so I don't see why they couldn't do the same for Roughriders. Replacing the horses with something bigger and more dangerous might be a good start. Then organize them into platoons and replace their hunting lances with power lances. Let them take lasguns too.

I'll be honest though; I can take or leave Rough Riders.

Ratlings however have real potential in my opinion. They just need more equipment (vox casters, camo gear, snare mines etc.). If Ratlings were Troops (part of an infantry platoon?), they could hold your home objectives whilst the other units go on the offensive.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I never have understood the appeal of them.

Much as I'm agreeing with your changes here, scrapping a unit because you don't like it is why we have favouritism and imbalances in many codexes.

Cruddace was an Imperial Guard player, and he got landed with writing the Tyranid Codex. It's no surprise that he disliked Tyranids, and they were rather bad that edition.

Check the author named on both of the most recent Guard books. Cruddace.
I don't think he's a Guard player. The only times I've seen him photographed with a Guard army is the Studio stuff. Kelly and the others like Haines? They all got shown at least once or twice with their personal stuff.

Hell, the only time I think I've seen personal stuff from Cruddace is for WHFB with Tomb Kings.

At the same time, Kelly was an Eldar player, and wrote the Eldar codex. I wonder how good Eldar were when he wrote it.

Kelly has basically written/headed every Eldar book in recent memory.

Rough Riders are unique. They are cavalry. That is their appeal. No other unit in the Imperial Guard is cavalry. Scrapping Rough Riders is fine. Just replace them with a cavalry unit, but at that point, they're Rough Riders in all but name. So why not just improve Rough Riders?

There is no improving them. They're a dead end.

Who cares that they're cavalry? If you want riding beasts, play Space Wolves or Daemons. Or invest in a Death Korps army. Because that's the biggest reason I keep hearing from people to "make Rough Riders better, like the Death Korps version".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
They completely revamped the image of Stormtroopers, so I don't see why they couldn't do the same for Roughriders. Replacing the horses with something bigger and more dangerous might be a good start. Then organize them into platoons and replace their hunting lances with power lances. Let them take lasguns too.

Let's be brutally frank here.

They didn't "revamp" the image of Stormtroopers. They rebranded them. It's still the same background, it's still the same equipment, etc. There's no real way to do that with Rough Riders IMO. It's a dead end, no matter how much time I've spent trying to make them work. There is just no way, shape, or form where I can get them to a point where:
a) They still feel like they "fit" into the army.
b) They don't feel like they belong more in a Cultist heavy Traitor Guard army.

Ratlings however have real potential in my opinion. They just need more equipment (vox casters, camo gear, snare mines etc.). If Ratlings were Troops (part of an infantry platoon?), they could hold your home objectives whilst the other units go on the offensive.

What are we really defining as "go on the offensive"?

The whole spiel/schtick of the Guard is holding ground, then slowly pushing the enemy back.

 Ignatius wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I never have understood the appeal of them.

Much as I'm agreeing with your changes here, scrapping a unit because you don't like it is why we have favouritism and imbalances in many codexes.

Cruddace was an Imperial Guard player, and he got landed with writing the Tyranid Codex. It's no surprise that he disliked Tyranids, and they were rather bad that edition.
At the same time, Kelly was an Eldar player, and wrote the Eldar codex. I wonder how good Eldar were when he wrote it.

Rough Riders are unique. They are cavalry. That is their appeal. No other unit in the Imperial Guard is cavalry. Scrapping Rough Riders is fine. Just replace them with a cavalry unit, but at that point, they're Rough Riders in all but name. So why not just improve Rough Riders?

@Kan This is essentially the feeling I get from your posts. You don't like the concept of certain units so want them gone. Commissars as you've noted you don't like. Rough Riders are the other big one I can remember you not liking. You are advocating for their removal on the grounds that you don't like them and have developed the thought that you don't feel they support the image you have of the guard in your head as evidence. Both of those things are highly subjective, which is why you are getting push back.

I don't like Ratlings or Ogryns personally. But I don't want them to be removed.

Cavalry was a very important part of the Victorian/Napoleonic Era, which is how I've modeled my Guard, which is why I like it and would like to keep it. I also a Cavalrymen in the US Army so I have a bias towards them. But by the same token I think it would be cool for there to be a scout (supporting role instead of direct damage) unit either on horseback or in light vehicles like a modern cavalry unit because the concept of scouts is mostly missing from the Guard, which is pretty dumb. I think the difference between us is that I would want this new scout unit to not replace Rough Riders, but be offered along side them.

I look forward to your overhaul as well.

This is what I keep saying, but he refuses to compromise. I don't see him budging on this topic.

 Kanluwen wrote:
What are we really defining as "go on the offensive"?

The whole spiel/schtick of the Guard is holding ground, then slowly pushing the enemy back.

Pushing the enemy back is going on the offensive, whatever speed it's performed at.

 Ignatius wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I never have understood the appeal of them.

Much as I'm agreeing with your changes here, scrapping a unit because you don't like it is why we have favouritism and imbalances in many codexes.

Cruddace was an Imperial Guard player, and he got landed with writing the Tyranid Codex. It's no surprise that he disliked Tyranids, and they were rather bad that edition.
At the same time, Kelly was an Eldar player, and wrote the Eldar codex. I wonder how good Eldar were when he wrote it.

Rough Riders are unique. They are cavalry. That is their appeal. No other unit in the Imperial Guard is cavalry. Scrapping Rough Riders is fine. Just replace them with a cavalry unit, but at that point, they're Rough Riders in all but name. So why not just improve Rough Riders?

@Kan This is essentially the feeling I get from your posts. You don't like the concept of certain units so want them gone. Commissars as you've noted you don't like.

It's worth mentioning that when I've discussed Commissars, I've advocated for them to be taken as part of the Platoon/Squad structure, not an actual bit associated with the Command Structure.

I've also advocated for "Summary Execution" to be an army-wide thing for Sergeants and Officers, seeing as how they're empowered same as the Commissariat.

I also find it pants on head ridiculous that Commissars are forced down your throat if you want to run the Tempestus formations. Why are the super elite, die-hard zealots (per the fluff) needing a babysitter for their morale?

It just smacks of laziness and a lack of understanding the factions we have.

Rough Riders are the other big one I can remember you not liking. You are advocating for their removal on the grounds that you don't like them and have developed the thought that you don't feel they support the image you have of the guard in your head as evidence. Both of those things are highly subjective, which is why you are getting push back.

But there's the rub. Some of the "subjectivity" is going away as they've been making the Guard more and more similar to the "image I have in my head".

Rough Riders still get mentioned here and there in the fluff, but it kinda feels like it's just a case of "We went through the codex and copy/pasted unit names in".

I don't like Ratlings or Ogryns personally. But I don't want them to be removed.

Like I said, Ratlings I can kinda/sorta find a place for them. It's in the Platoon structure, doled out amongst the squads as a kind of "move through cover"/"morale" booster.

Think Jokaero, but less furry.

Cavalry was a very important part of the Victorian/Napoleonic Era, which is how I've modeled my Guard, which is why I like it and would like to keep it.

That's great.

I modeled my Guard after the Cadian Shock Troops, who aren't Victorian/Napoleonic. They're Guardsmen.

I also a Cavalrymen in the US Army so I have a bias towards them. But by the same token I think it would be cool for there to be a scout (supporting role instead of direct damage) unit either on horseback or in light vehicles like a modern cavalry unit because the concept of scouts is mostly missing from the Guard, which is pretty dumb. I think the difference between us is that I would want this new scout unit to not replace Rough Riders, but be offered along side them.

No mounts, period. FAVs, LAVs, or Bikes. That's the way to go.

I know I'm a broken record on this, but seriously. They're trying to move AWAY from the whole "fantasy in space" thing. Cavalry as a thing for Daemons? Totally works.
Space Wolves? Okay, that's a stretch.

Guard? It's just silly.

I look forward to your overhaul as well.

Way to put the pressure on...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

CplPunishment wrote:


This is what I keep saying, but he refuses to compromise. I don't see him budging on this topic.

See above image.

I've got my spirit animal Creed with me on this. Ratlings are as far back of a step as I'll take!

@Kanluwen. All I keep hearing is "I don't see any purpose for these units, therefore I, Kanluwen, arbiter of everthing that was, is and forever shall be Imperial Guard, decree that henceforth nobody should have access to rules for them."

CplPunishment wrote:
@Kanluwen. All I keep hearing is "I don't see any purpose for these units, therefore I, Kanluwen, arbiter of everthing that was, is and forever shall be Imperial Guard, decree that henceforth nobody should have access to rules for them."

You do know that if Bike Squads got added, ala the ones I've suggested, you could easily proxy your Rough Riders for them?

I mean, people have been trying to feed me that line of crap for years about Rough Riders. "Just pretend they're on motorcycles, it's fine!".

If only we could have IG Bikers

Not sure exactly what use they'd be, but hey, they'd still be cool!

 Kanluwen wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:
@Kanluwen. All I keep hearing is "I don't see any purpose for these units, therefore I, Kanluwen, arbiter of everthing that was, is and forever shall be Imperial Guard, decree that henceforth nobody should have access to rules for them."

You do know that if Bike Squads got added, ala the ones I've suggested, you could easily proxy your Rough Riders for them?

I mean, people have been trying to feed me that line of crap for years about Rough Riders. "Just pretend they're on motorcycles, it's fine!".

Why pretend...? I've still got IG bikers. That I've fielded as Roughriders... Along with my regular RT-era Roughriders...

I could live with bikers taking Roughriders place in the codex. However, not as 'non-combat units' per your earlier suggestions. Sure, give them those non-combat capabilities, but they better have guns and weapon options as well.

 Kanluwen wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:
@Kanluwen. All I keep hearing is "I don't see any purpose for these units, therefore I, Kanluwen, arbiter of everthing that was, is and forever shall be Imperial Guard, decree that henceforth nobody should have access to rules for them."

You do know that if Bike Squads got added, ala the ones I've suggested, you could easily proxy your Rough Riders for them?

I mean, people have been trying to feed me that line of crap for years about Rough Riders. "Just pretend they're on motorcycles, it's fine!".

Now we are getting somewhere with this discussion. I would need to hear more details however. But at least you're saying something in compromise territory.

 don_mondo wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:
@Kanluwen. All I keep hearing is "I don't see any purpose for these units, therefore I, Kanluwen, arbiter of everthing that was, is and forever shall be Imperial Guard, decree that henceforth nobody should have access to rules for them."

You do know that if Bike Squads got added, ala the ones I've suggested, you could easily proxy your Rough Riders for them?

I mean, people have been trying to feed me that line of crap for years about Rough Riders. "Just pretend they're on motorcycles, it's fine!".

Why pretend...? I've still got IG bikers. That I've fielded as Roughriders... Along with my regular RT-era Roughriders...

I could live with bikers taking Roughriders place in the codex. However, not as 'non-combat units' per your earlier suggestions. Sure, give them those non-combat capabilities, but they better have guns and weapon options as well.

They get laspistols and the deployable sensors.
That's all.

The whole point is to move away from the idea of "Every single unit needs to be super killy". Look at Tau Pathfinders, Tetras, and Markerlight Drones.

Arguably, point for point, the most critical things in a Tau army. Pathfinders have crap guns(Pulse Carbines) with virtually no range.
So why are the Markerlight equipped units considered priority targets by enemy players?

Because of their utility boost to the army.

They could possibly upgrade to a bike mounted weapon, like a Grenade Launcher. They'd still be a fast support unit, but you could pay a little extra to give them a little more punch, in the same way you might give a Pathfinder Squad a Rail Rifle or two.

Ratlings are basically nonexistent in the fluff and easily replaced by special weapon squads with sniper rifles or something like catachan snipers Squads that use to be in the catachan codex.

Personally I would love for the return of catachan devils squad to get options for an infiltrating stealth veteran squad and they should make sergeant harked a junior officer so he can issue orders.

Another possibility is that if gw is forward thinking with the rumoured release of necromunda they can make them easily converted penial legion squads.

 General Annoyance wrote:
They could possibly upgrade to a bike mounted weapon, like a Grenade Launcher. They'd still be a fast support unit, but you could pay a little extra to give them a little more punch, in the same way you might give a Pathfinder Squad a Rail Rifle or two.

Nope. Nothing above Laspistols.

And remember that Pathfinder Squads get Rail Rifles/Ion Rifles for a fluff reason. The same fluff reason they get the Grav Inhibitor Drones and Pulse Accelerator Drones.
Pathfinders are used as "testbeds" for tech before it's considered battle ready.

Rail Rifles, in case you were unaware, first got introduced to Pathfinders as part of a Chapter Approved article back when "Fire Warrior" came out. There was a Hard-Wired Target Lock present on them which (fluffwise) was causing a chance at killing the Fire Warrior/Pathfinder using the Rail Rifle. The fluff progression has actually made it so that it's now much safer, but apparently still has a "stigma" for that reason.

Kan: I mean I don't disagree, it's just that... in order for that to work you'd need to overhaul ALL armies, not just Guard. Otherwise you'll just end up with a ton of options players don't use because they'll just get fethed by all the killy armies.

 Melissia wrote:
Kan: I mean I don't disagree, it's just that... in order for that to work you'd need to overhaul ALL armies, not just Guard. Otherwise you'll just end up with a ton of options players don't use because they'll just get fethed by all the killy armies.

I know.

Which is the big argument I keep trying to hammer home, but it gets lost in the mire of "I like Ratlings! You don't! STOP RUINING MY ARMY!" discussion.

You know, a thought occurs...we have Sentinels...big walker things. Shouldn't they be our cavalry? What if they slashed the price of them and put them into platoons? 1 command sentinel (BS4 and can issue orders) and 2-5 squads of 1-5 sentinels. The Emperor's Talon Company made more mainstream.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
You know, a thought occurs...we have Sentinels...big walker things. Shouldn't they be our cavalry? What if they slashed the price of them and put them into platoons? 1 command sentinel (BS4 and can issue orders) and 2-5 squads of 1-5 sentinels. The Emperor's Talon Company made more mainstream.

So... Emperor's Shield Platoons (can take up to nine sentinels in three squadrons, the sents give move through cover to nearby guardsmen), and Emperor's Talon Recon Platoons (two to four full squadrons of sents, one sent is commander and gives Orders to the rest at Ld8), but cheaper?

I'm okay with this.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Nope. Nothing above Laspistols.

Why not though?

And remember that Pathfinder Squads get Rail Rifles/Ion Rifles for a fluff reason. The same fluff reason they get the Grav Inhibitor Drones and Pulse Accelerator Drones.
Pathfinders are used as "testbeds" for tech before it's considered battle ready.

Right. The point I was making there is how a support unit might take some extra weapons so it has some degree of potential damage output at range.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but the Rail Rifle is no longer an experimental system, but something used regularly by Pathfinder squads. It was pretty much designed for their use anyway, since regular Fire Teams can't deploy with specialist/heavy weaponry due to military doctrine.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Which is the big argument I keep trying to hammer home, but it gets lost in the mire of "I like Ratlings! You don't! STOP RUINING MY ARMY!" discussion.

Well we should be considering the fact that some people may enjoy those bits of lore, or have played and collected those units, or both. Removing them entirely should never be something that has to happen in a game that is designed well at its core.

The argument I've been trying to hammer home for quite some time is that 40k needs a complete rules overhaul, from the ground up. That too gets lost in the idea that 40k's ruleset can be recovered... somehow.

Treat it like a Lego construct; there are bits missing to make the thing whole again, and no piece can fill those gaps properly. Break it apart, and build something that fits together properly, and works.

G.A

 General Annoyance wrote:
Treat it like a Lego construct; there are bits missing to make the thing whole again, and no piece can fill those gaps properly. Break it apart, and build something that fits together properly, and works.

G.A

Nicely put! Have an exalt!

 Melissia wrote:
So... Emperor's Shield Platoons (can take up to nine sentinels in three squadrons, the sents give move through cover to nearby guardsmen), and Emperor's Talon Recon Platoons (two to four full squadrons of sents, one sent is commander and gives Orders to the rest at Ld8), but cheaper?

I'm okay with this.

Yeah that's it!

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Nope. Nothing above Laspistols.

Why not though?

Why should they?

The whole point of the biker unit I've been suggesting is NOT to be a combat unit. Their job is to move ahead and plant the sensor net. End of story. If they get engaged, they are speedy enough to get out.

And remember that Pathfinder Squads get Rail Rifles/Ion Rifles for a fluff reason. The same fluff reason they get the Grav Inhibitor Drones and Pulse Accelerator Drones.
Pathfinders are used as "testbeds" for tech before it's considered battle ready.

Right. The point I was making there is how a support unit might take some extra weapons so it has some degree of potential damage output at range.

And the point I was making is that no, these are not comparable.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but the Rail Rifle is no longer an experimental system, but something used regularly by Pathfinder squads. It was pretty much designed for their use anyway, since regular Fire Teams can't deploy with specialist/heavy weaponry due to military doctrine.

Actually, it was designed for Fire Warrior teams. The Hard-Wired Target Lock however meant it was instead given to the Pathfinders.

Also, that whole "can't deploy with specialist/heavy weaponry" bunk is done. They now have Turrets with SMS/Missile Pods.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Which is the big argument I keep trying to hammer home, but it gets lost in the mire of "I like Ratlings! You don't! STOP RUINING MY ARMY!" discussion.

Well we should be considering the fact that some people may enjoy those bits of lore, or have played and collected those units, or both. Removing them entirely should never be something that has to happen in a game that is designed well at its core.

Actually, yes. Removing them entirely should be something that has to happen in a game, however well designed it is, when said game is older than some posters.

The argument I've been trying to hammer home for quite some time is that 40k needs a complete rules overhaul, from the ground up. That too gets lost in the idea that 40k's ruleset can be recovered... somehow.

Except it really doesn't get lost, because basically everyone has been making this argument.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Why should they?

Mainly this image makes me feel like they should at least be able to take a few.



I know, I know, they're SM Bikes, and IG ones should be a lot smaller. But why Imperial command wouldn't issue them with even a squad weapon, fired by hand, to cover themselves is what confuses me.

The whole point of the biker unit I've been suggesting is NOT to be a combat unit. Their job is to move ahead and plant the sensor net. End of story. If they get engaged, they are speedy enough to get out.

Theoretically that is what should happen, yes. The problems I would bring up with that are: sometimes that may not always be an option, IG roles are not as set in stone as a more doctrine tight army like the Tau Empire, and if that is they are proficient enough to execute their job every time with the IG behind supporting them, why would they even need Laspistols?

And the point I was making is that no, these are not comparable.

I'm not following on what the difference here is, but I'll accept the argument.

Actually, it was designed for Fire Warrior teams. The Hard-Wired Target Lock however meant it was instead given to the Pathfinders.

Also, that whole "can't deploy with specialist/heavy weaponry" bunk is done. They now have Turrets with SMS/Missile Pods.

I haven't read the specific articles for the Rail Rifle. I don't see how the Target Lock would stop Fire Warriors from having them, though.

Those Turrets are technically a support unit for the Fire Team. That, and it's not entirely the same as the actual Fire Warriors carrying in a special or heavy weapon like an IG squad would carry in a Heavy Bolter or a Plasma Gun.

Actually, yes. Removing them entirely should be something that has to happen in a game, however well designed it is, when said game is older than some posters.

What does age have to do with it? If they were something that works, then what's the point for removing them?

Except it really doesn't get lost, because basically everyone has been making this argument.

If that is the case, then there is nothing to be had of this discussion, or any in the future for that matter. Not until we see some new rules, that is.

morgoth wrote:

Well I disagree.

I want to see 660 models, I want to see real fething Imperial Guard.

If I ever get into that army, I'll have legions of noname nobodies who'll just get crushed in masse because that's their whole purpose in life. (by the way, movement strips are a thing you know.. even in 40k).

I'd rather they don't make the IG more powerful per head than it already is.

Also, I would like their tanks to be shrunk in points and maybe even downgraded a little, so that hey may be more numerous, more "we suck but there's a lot of us".

It doesn't scream "Mechanical Division" when you have about 10 tanks on the table.

I just recently got back into 40k with my IG after stopping in early 6th edition. I was really excited about the Cadian formations, particularly the infantry company since I have about 275 infantry models. I've been running a 225 model list from the Cadian supplement and I've found that things have gotten to the point where even a list that large can get completely wiped off the table in shooting by a reasonably competent Eldar, Tau or Marine player without too much trouble. I'm already at the point where my deployment zone is literally full of guys and if there's too much terrain in my deployment zone I have to put some of them in reserves because they will not fit assuming I want to have some kind of spacing. If we lower point costs more it won't do any good, all you'll do is put more guys in reserve so they can accomplish nothing when they come in on turn 3. I don't know what the solution is but I think that Orders and formations probably provide the framework for it.

@Kanluwen. Could you please explain what this proposed sensor net does?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Deployable Scanner:
During a Hornet Biker Team's Movement phase, they can select a position near where they moved. They can then place a Scanner Post at that location.

A Scanner Post is a piece of Battlefield Debris with T6 and 4W with a 3+ Armor Save and the special rule of "Sensor Net".

Sensor Net: Enemy units within a 12" range of a Sensor Net cannot claim the benefits of Stealth and/or Shrouded when in Cover or Jinking.
If an enemy unit is within 12" of multiple Scanner Posts, they also cannot claim a Cover Save from area terrain.

I posted it awhile ago, but there it is brought forward again.

Figured a name could be workshopped later, but here are my proposed rules

Imperial Guard Mounted Scouts: 25pts
Guardsman WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv5+
Sergeant WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld8 Sv5+
Unit composition: 1 mounted Sgt and 4 mounted guardsmen (on bikes, horses or whatever is appropriate for a cavalry base)
Unit type: cavalry
Wargear: Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, Flak Armor
Special Rules: Scout/Outflank, Hit and Run, Relentless

May purchase 1-5 additional mounted Guardsmen for 6pts each
Sergeant may replace laspistol with bolt pistol (1pt) or plasma pistol (10pts)
Sergeant may replace his close combat weapon with a power weapon (5pts)
Up to two may replace laspistol with: Flamer(5pts), Grenade Launcher(5pts), Meltagun (10pts) or Plasmagun(15pts)
Entire Squad may take Frag Grenades (1pt/model)
Entire Squad may take Krak Grenades (1pt/model)
Any model may take a hunting lance (or maybe power lance?) (3pts/model)
Any model may replace its laspistol with a lasgun (Free)
Entire Unit may take Carapace Armor (2pts/model)
Entire Squad may take Melta Bombs (2pts/model)
One model that did not take a hunting lance may take a Demolition Charge (10pts) OR Sensor Net (???pts) [ask Kanluwen what this does]
One model may take a Vox-Caster (5pts) [in my version of the next IG codex, voxes transmit orders beyond an officers command range]

Just a rough draft, but what do y'all think?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Deployable Scanner:
During a Hornet Biker Team's Movement phase, they can select a position near where they moved. They can then place a Scanner Post at that location.

A Scanner Post is a piece of Battlefield Debris with T6 and 4W with a 3+ Armor Save and the special rule of "Sensor Net".

Sensor Net: Enemy units within a 12" range of a Sensor Net cannot claim the benefits of Stealth and/or Shrouded when in Cover or Jinking.
If an enemy unit is within 12" of multiple Scanner Posts, they also cannot claim a Cover Save from area terrain.

I posted it awhile ago, but there it is brought forward again.

That's a cool idea, no doubt, but it feels like it belongs in Codex: Tau Empire

Think about it: Would every Average Joe Guardsman be "linked in" with this sensor net? Would a "sensor-net uplink" be an additional upgrade available to some or all Guard units? Or is it assumed that it would be as standard issue as a lasgun?

If the IG are to get combat bikes, I feel like they should be reserved for the Scions. It suits their role.

And they don't necessarily have to be "bikes". They could be quads, or little jeep/land rover type things.

It's definitely hard to say what should happen when we don't know what changes 8th Edition will bring. It's also hard to talk about individual rules without explaining the context we're thinking about them in. As in, does this new rule only work with other significant changes, or are we holding all other rules the same and only talking about changing this one thing.

If they end up going with war scrolls/data slates/whatever it would be pretty easy to keep ratlings, rough riders, etc. Who knows if that's what they'll do.

I ended up with some ratlings, Wyrdvanes, sentinels, and a bunch of other random stuff that doesn't fit the fluff of my main guard force. I do have ~30 Catachans, so maybe I'll give them a bunch of camo cloaks and sniper rifles and make them an elite scout force made up of all the things that aren't very effective on the tabletop. It would be a good place to put all those metal power fist commissars I ended up with as well. Maybe I should get some rough riders for good measure.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I know I'm a broken record on this, but seriously. They're trying to move AWAY from the whole "fantasy in space" thing.

So, does that mean they going to get rid of all the swords and sorcery?

CplPunishment wrote:
Figured a name could be workshopped later, but here are my proposed rules

Imperial Guard Mounted Scouts: 25pts
Guardsman WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv5+
Sergeant WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld8 Sv5+
Unit composition: 1 mounted Sgt and 4 mounted guardsmen (on bikes, horses or whatever is appropriate for a cavalry base)
Unit type: cavalry
Wargear: Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, Flak Armor
Special Rules: Scout/Outflank, Hit and Run, Relentless

May purchase 1-5 additional mounted Guardsmen for 6pts each
Sergeant may replace laspistol with bolt pistol (1pt) or plasma pistol (10pts)
Sergeant may replace his close combat weapon with a power weapon (5pts)
Up to two may replace laspistol with: Flamer(5pts), Grenade Launcher(5pts), Meltagun (10pts) or Plasmagun(15pts)
Entire Squad may take Frag Grenades (1pt/model)
Entire Squad may take Krak Grenades (1pt/model)
Any model may take a hunting lance (or maybe power lance?) (3pts/model)
Any model may replace its laspistol with a lasgun (Free)
Entire Unit may take Carapace Armor (2pts/model)
Entire Squad may take Melta Bombs (2pts/model)
One model that did not take a hunting lance may take a Demolition Charge (10pts) OR Sensor Net (???pts) [ask Kanluwen what this does]
One model may take a Vox-Caster (5pts) [in my version of the next IG codex, voxes transmit orders beyond an officers command range]

Just a rough draft, but what do y'all think?

You basically just posted Rough Riders...

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Deployable Scanner:
During a Hornet Biker Team's Movement phase, they can select a position near where they moved. They can then place a Scanner Post at that location.

A Scanner Post is a piece of Battlefield Debris with T6 and 4W with a 3+ Armor Save and the special rule of "Sensor Net".

Sensor Net: Enemy units within a 12" range of a Sensor Net cannot claim the benefits of Stealth and/or Shrouded when in Cover or Jinking.
If an enemy unit is within 12" of multiple Scanner Posts, they also cannot claim a Cover Save from area terrain.

I posted it awhile ago, but there it is brought forward again.

That's a cool idea, no doubt, but it feels like it belongs in Codex: Tau Empire

Think about it: Would every Average Joe Guardsman be "linked in" with this sensor net? Would a "sensor-net uplink" be an additional upgrade available to some or all Guard units? Or is it assumed that it would be as standard issue as a lasgun?

Guard have a lot more stuff in their kit than you think. Look at FW's "Hostile Environment"/"Respirator" Cadians. Or the tank crews from the various plastic kits.

There's a kind of "monocle" piece that gets shown in a lot of places that is said to be tied into the vox network...
And while we're at it? The vox isn't just a radio. It also can upload targeting data, coordinates, etc independent of the operator's voice. There's a mention several times in fluff of a "wristslate" that is tied to the vox letting the vox operators mark stuff on the fly.

 Kanluwen wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:
Figured a name could be workshopped later, but here are my proposed rules

Imperial Guard Mounted Scouts: 25pts
Guardsman WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv5+
Sergeant WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld8 Sv5+
Unit composition: 1 mounted Sgt and 4 mounted guardsmen (on bikes, horses or whatever is appropriate for a cavalry base)
Unit type: cavalry
Wargear: Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, Flak Armor
Special Rules: Scout/Outflank, Hit and Run, Relentless

May purchase 1-5 additional mounted Guardsmen for 6pts each
Sergeant may replace laspistol with bolt pistol (1pt) or plasma pistol (10pts)
Sergeant may replace his close combat weapon with a power weapon (5pts)
Up to two may replace laspistol with: Flamer(5pts), Grenade Launcher(5pts), Meltagun (10pts) or Plasmagun(15pts)
Entire Squad may take Frag Grenades (1pt/model)
Entire Squad may take Krak Grenades (1pt/model)
Any model may take a hunting lance (or maybe power lance?) (3pts/model)
Any model may replace its laspistol with a lasgun (Free)
Entire Unit may take Carapace Armor (2pts/model)
Entire Squad may take Melta Bombs (2pts/model)
One model that did not take a hunting lance may take a Demolition Charge (10pts) OR Sensor Net (???pts) [ask Kanluwen what this does]
One model may take a Vox-Caster (5pts) [in my version of the next IG codex, voxes transmit orders beyond an officers command range]

Just a rough draft, but what do y'all think?

You basically just posted Rough Riders...

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Deployable Scanner:
During a Hornet Biker Team's Movement phase, they can select a position near where they moved. They can then place a Scanner Post at that location.

A Scanner Post is a piece of Battlefield Debris with T6 and 4W with a 3+ Armor Save and the special rule of "Sensor Net".

Sensor Net: Enemy units within a 12" range of a Sensor Net cannot claim the benefits of Stealth and/or Shrouded when in Cover or Jinking.
If an enemy unit is within 12" of multiple Scanner Posts, they also cannot claim a Cover Save from area terrain.

I posted it awhile ago, but there it is brought forward again.

That's a cool idea, no doubt, but it feels like it belongs in Codex: Tau Empire

Think about it: Would every Average Joe Guardsman be "linked in" with this sensor net? Would a "sensor-net uplink" be an additional upgrade available to some or all Guard units? Or is it assumed that it would be as standard issue as a lasgun?

Guard have a lot more stuff in their kit than you think. Look at FW's "Hostile Environment"/"Respirator" Cadians. Or the tank crews from the various plastic kits.

There's a kind of "monocle" piece that gets shown in a lot of places that is said to be tied into the vox network...
And while we're at it? The vox isn't just a radio. It also can upload targeting data, coordinates, etc independent of the operator's voice. There's a mention several times in fluff of a "wristslate" that is tied to the vox letting the vox operators mark stuff on the fly.

Yeah, it is a lot like the current Rough Riders (So that people can still use Rough Riders), but it also gives you options to build something entirely different. More options than what I wrote could easily be added. Also, I added some special rules and options that rough riders don't currently have. In any case, we're working with a basic guardsman's statline, which means the only option to make them operate differently would be to make them Unit Type: Bike instead of Cavalry. When you consider that they will likely be on small, bikes that are fragile compared to Space Marine ones, it wouldn't make much sense for them to get the +1T buff. So, please do tell how exactly you would make them that much different from Rough Riders. So far your hornets sound like rough riders on bikes with all of their basic wargear and options taken away. But they get an IG markerlight of sorts. It sounds interesting but it just sounds too Tauish for me.

*some* Guard units have more stuff in their kit. It is a diverse body that hails from hundreds of thousands of different planets. That which is considered "standard" varies from system to system. I'm not saying that your idea shouldn't exist in a Guard Codex (although I'm not entirely convinced it needs to be included), I'm just saying that I don't think it would be standard issue on a bare-bones squad.