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Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




USA

 Trickstick wrote:
 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Aside from the mortar teams, I think Manticors are the next best Heavy for buck


Was comparing the basilisk and manticore, I just don't see the need to take a basilisk. For 25pts you get double the shots and +1str, with the downside of not firing on turn 5. Most games are decided by turn 5 anyway, or at least doing 8d6 shots over 4 turns is better than 5d6 over 5.

If you take two or three manticores, it could be worth it to take a MoO. You get to reroll 1s for number of shots, and get a single use basilisk too.



With how 8th ed is looking, game could be decided by bottom of turn 3 or 4 at the most. Turn 5, just use the depleted manticores to sit on objectives
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Manchester, UK

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
Manticore also has T7, while Basilisk has T6.


I guess that represents open-topped. I with that armoured sentinels were +1T...

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman






Math-hammering a bit, Basilisks average 2 wounds per turn on vehicles (T8 3+), while Manticores average about 3.1 wounds. So a Basilisk has to have 6 rounds of shooting to match a Manticore's damage output in 4 rounds.
   
Made in us
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USA

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
Math-hammering a bit, Basilisks average 2 wounds per turn on vehicles (T8 3+), while Manticores average about 3.1 wounds. So a Basilisk has to have 6 rounds of shooting to match a Manticore's damage output in 4 rounds.


In your math, did you factor in Ap-2?
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman






 SonsofVulkan wrote:
 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
Math-hammering a bit, Basilisks average 2 wounds per turn on vehicles (T8 3+), while Manticores average about 3.1 wounds. So a Basilisk has to have 6 rounds of shooting to match a Manticore's damage output in 4 rounds.


In your math, did you factor in Ap-2?


Yes. I should be clear, however, that I'm listing wounds removed, not successful to-wound rolls (as each successful to-wound does an average of 2 damage). Manticores roll about 1.55 successful to-wounds while Basilisks manage only 1.
   
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another perspective
[Thumb - Screenshot_20170602-002138.png]


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Made in us
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I agree, I've been staring at all the autohitting weapons in various armies. Like the immolator for SoB, those do 2d6 by themselves.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





 axisofentropy wrote:
another perspective


So what he is saying is blobs are nerfed? I thought they were buffed? Context?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NenkotaMoon wrote:
 axisofentropy wrote:
another perspective


So what he is saying is blobs are nerfed? I was told they were buffed? Context?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 06:14:55


Feed the poor war gamer with money.  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
 Trickstick wrote:
 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Aside from the mortar teams, I think Manticors are the next best Heavy for buck


Was comparing the basilisk and manticore, I just don't see the need to take a basilisk. For 25pts you get double the shots and +1str, with the downside of not firing on turn 5. Most games are decided by turn 5 anyway, or at least doing 8d6 shots over 4 turns is better than 5d6 over 5.

If you take two or three manticores, it could be worth it to take a MoO. You get to reroll 1s for number of shots, and get a single use basilisk too.


Manticore also has T7, while Basilisk has T6.


Another one of the horrible pricing problems. I like the basis of 8th VERY much and it was in dire need, but I really hope we are not waiting too long to get some points and rules readjusted. I hope as they introduce codexes, it both happens fairly quickly so armies don't languish and also that creep is no where near what it has been in the past.

   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





No, what, im just gonna wait till the 17th. Someone tells me something is nerfed, someone tells me something is buffed. I really don't care anymore as it just is going crazy in my mind. Time for a break.

Feed the poor war gamer with money.  
   
Made in de
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper




DE

Did anyone mathhammer the LR Guns yet? Even though everybody says that it should have double the shots, the exterminator autocannon looks quite tasty in my eyes!
   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






Astra Militarum are looking good. Especially as if there's ever a problem regarding something, like, if you really, really, really need a counter-assault unit of some kind, you can fill that role with any <Imperial> unit.

I'm not sure I agree with that guy about Leman Russes and mech units though. The infantry units seem very points efficient. It's pretty easy to compare a Leman Russ to infantry, since both have toughness and wound values. One is vulnerable to multiwound weapons, while the other isn't, while both can still be taken down with hot-shot lasguns or whatever.

Likewise, a 17 point Heavy Flamer upgrade isn't exactly cheap. The flamer Russ is a 200+ point unit with just 12 wounds, and won't shoot much turn one. On the other hand, you could get a million plasma shots with those points with the Scions, and they'll always alpha strike whatever you want.

Manticore might be value for 133 points if you spend some command points sometimes in re-rolling that crucial 2D6, and get a re-rolls to hit for it. I benchmark vehicles to 100 point Razorbacks and less than 100 point Dakkafexes, but at least the Manticore has the advantage of not needing line of sight to the target.

The Taurox Prime with two hot-shot volley guns and the gatling cannon is a pretty interesting anti-infantry unit for 96 points. 10 wounds on a 3+ save T6, and shoots 28 times with a 3+ to hit at a decent enough range. I'm not sure if it's good enough to beat infantry for the same price, but at least it's not overpaying for wounds and toughness, and there isn't any RNG involved in how much you can shoot, and it's got a good ballistic skill.

Taurox Prime shooting at MEQ: 2.22 wounds from the gatling 1,77 wounds from volley guns for 3.90 total.
Razorback with twin AsC shooting at MEQ: 2,66 wounds. NOTE: S6 only wounds T4 on a 3+.

Taurox Prime beats the twin assault cannon Razorback against MEQ by over 30%, for less points.

Against T7 3+ units like Razorbacks, in this comparison, the Taurox really shines due to the to-wound mechanics. A S4 weapon is the same as a S6 weapon. Taurox would do 2,66 wounds total while the Razorback would do only 1,33 wounds. A Razorback shooting the Taurox back gets some help due to the T6, but it only raises the wounds amount to 2.

Upon short inspection, the Taurox Prime seems to be better than the twin assault cannon Razorback, for 4 less points.

Twin lascannons Razorback variant against T7 3+, 3.11 wounds. Again, the lascannon only wounds T7 on a 3+. It's enough to beat the gatling variant, but only by 0.5 wounds per turn funnily enough, and now it's 115 points vs 96, and there's a huge difference against non multiwound targets. The lascannons pull a bit further ahead against T8 however but the difference is still just one wound per shooting phase, for nearly 20 more points. The battle cannon Taurox Prime does LESS damage against Razorbacks than the gatling cannon variant (2.34 vs 2.66), for more points. That's how good S4 Heavy 20 is against T7.

I don't even need to do the math to know Taurox Primes completely destroy the heavy flamer Leman Russ point by point in firepower, and do it from a better range, while providing almost twice the wounds. And the T8 on the Leman Russ won't help you against many weapons. A S9 lascannon wounds both the Leman Russ and the Taurox on a 3+, and they have the same armour saves.

Now at this point I only need to figure out what Imperial unit does most damage to multiwound models, point by point, and at what kind of range and survivability can they do it from. In short, what beats the twin Lascannon Razorback (115 points) point by point, when shooting T7 3+ or T8 3+ with multiwounds. The heavy weapons squad beats it, naturally, in firepower (you get 4.79 lascannon guys for 115 points), but there's a big discrepancy in survivability.

I guess the rapid firing Plasma Scions will beat it, and if that's the case, there's no need to have lascannons anywhere. You'll just take anti-horde weapons, like the Taurox Prime (which actually does very well against tanks like we just demonstrated), or just men with lasguns if that mathhammers better, and plasmaguns.

Aerial dropping Tempestus Scions with mass plasma, Taurox Primes with gatlings, one Manticore for flavor and indirect fire, and a Culexus Assassin or two. Add HQ and infantry squads for a lot of bodies on the field. Yarrick might be able to do a pretty decent force multiplier bubble for the immobile elements of the army, but I haven't really looked at the HQs that much yet.

This message was edited 30 times. Last update was at 2017/06/02 09:27:26


 
   
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@Therion For impmerial units that dish out serious multiwounds, the best I've found so far it the stormraven. It does come in at ~300pts (which is almost triple the cost) However it comes with a large amount of bonuses.

Twin Lascannon just like the Razorback, Stormstrike Missile Launcher that is arguably better then the Twin Las. And to finish, you take the Heavy Plasma Cannon. Doing 2d3 hits of plasma fury. This vehicle can hit whatever it wants with it's speed, have -1 to hit it and the topper, it will always hit on 3+ even if it moves and shoots, something the razorback suffers on, hitting on 4+ if it moves.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
Made in de
Paramount Plague Censer Bearer




Germany - Bodensee/Ravensburg area

 axisofentropy wrote:
another perspective


I can't take that guy serious for his flamer Russ comment. Did he even calculate how many points that tank will be? If you are desperate for multiple flamers on a vehicle then just take a Hellhound, much cheaper, faster and in range much sooner.
Don't really see mech guard being back when a Chimera is 91+ points with the cheapest weapon loadout. Throwing more footslogging bodies at the problem is much more points efficient and last turn objective grabbing won't be a big problem with orders like move!move!move! (the Russ equivalent being even better) and teleporting Stormtroopers.

Yarrik seems good but is going to be sniper bait, but can't argue with the point cost, he is a beat stick in melee as well. Solid choice if you wanted to bring a lord commissar anyway and if you end up playing against Orks his buff becomes insane if you manage to keep your high rate of fire units near him.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 10:07:51


Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer


- The saga of Hrothgar the Beastslayer 
   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






There was a problem in my math, I assumed lascannon to ignore the 3+ save, but it's only -3, meaning the gatling Taurox Prime comes actually BEATS a twin-lascannon Razorback for damage against T7 3+. It still loses against T8 3+, however, but not by much.

I haven't looked at the Stormraven, but it's hard to imagine that at that price it can beat the Plasma Scions or the Taurox, point by point. Model wise, sure, but then again, a Stormlord tank fully kitted out costs 558 points, and puts 13 wounds on T7 3+. But a bunch of Taurox Primes for the same cost would've done 15,5 wounds point by point.

Stormlord is actually pretty decent for a big flavor model. Park Yarrick behind it and it hits a lot more. And if you ever happen to play against Orks, and it re-rolls ALL misses, it's going to be ridiculous. But then again, so would the Taurox Primes, who by the way get 58 wounds for the same price as the Stormlord gets only 26. AND a lascannon wounds both on a 3+, and both have the same armour save. Most tough models got completely screwed in favour of light tanks and light monsters who offer a lot more bang for the buck. Light weapons too with high rates of fire are usually very efficient.

These are the holes in this edition, but hey, I kind of like those truck models, and I REALLY REALLY like stormtroopers, so good for me.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/06/02 10:34:41


 
   
Made in us
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 Therion wrote:
There was a problem in my math, I assumed lascannon to ignore the 3+ save, but it's only -3, meaning the Taurox Prime comes even closer to the twin lascannon Razorback, even against actual tanks (T7 3+ multiwound).

I haven't looked at the Stormraven, but it's hard to imagine that at that price it can beat the Plasma Scions or the Taurox, point by point. Model wise, sure, but then again, a Stormlord tank fully kitted out costs 558 points, and puts 13 wounds on T7 3+. But a bunch of Taurox Primes for the same cost would've done 15,5 wounds point by point.

Stormlord is actually pretty decent for a big flavor model. Park Yarrick behind it and it hits a lot more. And if you ever happen to play against Orks, and it re-rolls ALL misses, it's going to be ridiculous. But then again, so would the Taurox Primes, who by the way get 58 wounds for the same price as the Stormlord gets only 26. AND a lascannon wounds both on a 3+, and both have the same armour save. Most tough models got completely screwed in favour of light tanks and light monsters who offer a lot more bang for the buck. Light weapons too with high rates of fire are usually very efficient.

These are the holes in this edition, but hey, I kind of like those truck models, and I REALLY REALLY like stormtroopers, so good for me.


Sometimes you have to take the more firepower in one models vs higher number of slightly more efficient models due to multiple reason.

-Battlefield mobility, bringing 8 Taurox Primes and actually being able to bring all that firepower to bear on the targets that need it is a questionable venture more often then not. I can tell you for sure, the stormraven will put it's shots where you want it, 3x razorbacks not so much.

-Detachment slots. You can only bring a taurox for each other slot, so this will slowly hamper your list building.

-Tempestus in reserves is also limited to half you units.


My math might be off, but a Stormraven with the kit I have (not including hurricane bolters) does 7.41 wounds to a T7 3+ per turn.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




USA

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
 Trickstick wrote:
 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Aside from the mortar teams, I think Manticors are the next best Heavy for buck


Was comparing the basilisk and manticore, I just don't see the need to take a basilisk. For 25pts you get double the shots and +1str, with the downside of not firing on turn 5. Most games are decided by turn 5 anyway, or at least doing 8d6 shots over 4 turns is better than 5d6 over 5.

If you take two or three manticores, it could be worth it to take a MoO. You get to reroll 1s for number of shots, and get a single use basilisk too.


Manticore also has T7, while Basilisk has T6.


Reason I wouldnt purchase a Basilisk right now is because I'm still waiting for forge world to release the points for artillery carriage(earth shaker). Why pay 108 for basilisk if the arty carriage is 50-60% of that right?
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

 Coyote81 wrote:

-Detachment slots. You can only bring a taurox for each other slot, so this will slowly hamper your list building.

-Tempestus in reserves is also limited to half you units.


My reading of the rules is that you can take a dedicated transport for every other choice. They are no longer tied to specific units, which means that in a Brigade detachment, you can bring six scion squads, three primes for orders, and then drop nine Tauroxes if you wanted to! You can start the Taurox on the ground, and deepstrike all of the scions.

Toss in three heavy weapon squads, three sentinels as a tax, conscripts for bubble wrap, and commissars to hold the line, and you have an army with an obscene amount of firepower.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






 Polonius wrote:
 Coyote81 wrote:

-Detachment slots. You can only bring a taurox for each other slot, so this will slowly hamper your list building.

-Tempestus in reserves is also limited to half you units.


My reading of the rules is that you can take a dedicated transport for every other choice. They are no longer tied to specific units, which means that in a Brigade detachment, you can bring six scion squads, three primes for orders, and then drop nine Tauroxes if you wanted to! You can start the Taurox on the ground, and deepstrike all of the scions.

Toss in three heavy weapon squads, three sentinels as a tax, conscripts for bubble wrap, and commissars to hold the line, and you have an army with an obscene amount of firepower.


Yes. In fact, you can take a unit of 5 Marines, and for that selection you get any dedicated transport, for example a Taurox Prime. It really doesn't matter. A Culexus Assassin is a choice, so again, for him, we get a Taurox Prime.

To the other guy: I don't agree with the focus fire being a problem, at all. There will be plenty of targets to shoot at, and yes, naturally they can't focus as well as a single model could, but they are better in more than just superior firepower. They have superior survivability. These Gatling Tauroxes only pay 9.6 points per T6 3+ wound, and bring very points efficient firepower to the table. Stack them together and park Yarrick behind them so he can't be targeted or sniped (because he can't even be seen), and we got a nice little firebase.

Scions alpha strike on one flank of the enemy, or if the enemy is coming to us, near our firebase. Culexus alpha strikes too because of the assassin rule.

And if you want something that can fight in close combat, and you're not confident that you can always shoot everything that's coming to you, and fall back with units that are in combat and then shoot with others, take an assault unit. It doesn't need to be Astra Militarum/Tempestus either. Any Imperial unit will do. As long as it's points efficient, I'm game.

I just ordered 6 'Start Collecting: Militarum Tempestus' boxes. What a bargain, as everything goes straight into a tournament army, and there's like 40% free stuff in there, and the models are beautiful too. The truck needs some conversion work though

PS: I like your list too, Polonius.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/06/02 13:07:42


 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Therion wrote:
I guess the rapid firing Plasma Scions will beat it, and if that's the case, there's no need to have lascannons anywhere. You'll just take anti-horde weapons, like the Taurox Prime (which actually does very well against tanks like we just demonstrated), or just men with lasguns if that mathhammers better, and plasmaguns.
My mathhammer has been showing the same. Taurox primes are the way to go. Point for point they dish out so much more damage than Chimera's it's not even funny. Scions are also insanely good. The ability to deploy from grav-chute really helps them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Coyote81 wrote:

-Battlefield mobility, bringing 8 Taurox Primes and actually being able to bring all that firepower to bear on the targets that need it is a questionable venture more often then not. I can tell you for sure, the stormraven will put it's shots where you want it, 3x razorbacks not so much.

-Detachment slots. You can only bring a taurox for each other slot, so this will slowly hamper your list building.

-Tempestus in reserves is also limited to half you units..
How many primes you bring depends on your points.
I, personally, would not load up on tons of them. I plan on fielding 4-6 of them.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/02 13:10:57


 
   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






 labmouse42 wrote:
 Therion wrote:
I guess the rapid firing Plasma Scions will beat it, and if that's the case, there's no need to have lascannons anywhere. You'll just take anti-horde weapons, like the Taurox Prime (which actually does very well against tanks like we just demonstrated), or just men with lasguns if that mathhammers better, and plasmaguns.
My mathhammer has been showing the same. Taurox primes are the way to go. Point for point they dish out so much more damage than Chimera's it's not even funny. Scions are also insanely good. The ability to deploy from grav-chute really helps them.


Yup. They'll never get shot before they get to do their damage, and they'll always get to rapid fire, and there's no randomness involved. It's incredible, really.

It's funny how I/we stumbled on this Taurox Prime by simply doing the math and testing. The way they changed the to-wound table affects so many things. T6 is the same as T8 against S9. S4 is the same as S6 against T7. Everything plays into the Taurox's advantage.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Therion wrote:
It's funny how I/we stumbled on this Taurox Prime by simply doing the math and testing. The way they changed the to-wound table affects so many things. T6 is the same as T8 against S9. S4 is the same as S6 against T7. Everything plays into the Taurox's advantage.
It's the 3+ shooting that really helps. Don't forget that SB upgrade is only 2 points, and is a must-have.
Sadly my Chimera's are going to have to go the way of the non-playable shelf. A dual HF chimera runs over 100 points and only delivers 7 hits at an 8" range. It's only advantage over the Taurox is +1 toughness and the ability to transport 2 more models.
In comparison, the Taurox Prime is faster, is cheaper, and has more firepower.

Edit :
On the subject of Hot-shot volley guns. They actually do more damage against Rhinos than a PG on standard charge. When out of rapid fire range, they do dramatically more damage.
The same applies to MEQ targets. The hot shot volley guns do more damage due to the number of shots.
It's food for thought. Some hot-shot volley guns in your Scion squads might be a good addition to just a horde of PGs. They also have a 24" range as well.

Edit 2 :
A funny thought. You can deploy your commisars/company commander in the Taurox Prime and grav-chute your scions. You can then move your Taurox Prime up on turn 1 to be near your squads. On turn 2 deploy out the characters to support your squads. This also puts your primes near your squads in case you need to use them to actually move. The 14" move is really helpful for getting the squads where they need to be.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/02 13:33:10


 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

Any thoughts on running an infantry-only IG army?

- Loads of Infantry with Lascannons, Missiles, Autocannons, Plasma, and maybe Flamers and Meltas.
- Perhaps some HWSs with Lascannons, Missiles or Autocannons.
- SWSs with Meltas or Flamers.
- Company Commanders and Platoon Commanders to hand out orders.
- Yarrick or other Commissars to keep them in line.
- Some Storm Troopers dropping into their backlines with Meltas or Plasma (perhaps accompanied by the Tempestor guy).

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






labmouse42: We're in agreement of all the maximally points efficient stuff, but what do you think about the 'cool' stuff, meaning, Knights and super-heavy tanks, and other tanks? Have you found any of them to be even remotely competitive?

I briefly looked at the Baneblade variants, and the Stormlord seemed decent enough due to the sheer amount of shots, but it pales in comparison to the trucks point by point both in offense and defense.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 14:19:59


 
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Manchester, UK

 vipoid wrote:
Any thoughts on running an infantry-only IG army?

- Loads of Infantry with Lascannons, Missiles, Autocannons, Plasma, and maybe Flamers and Meltas.
- Perhaps some HWSs with Lascannons, Missiles or Autocannons.
- SWSs with Meltas or Flamers.
- Company Commanders and Platoon Commanders to hand out orders.
- Yarrick or other Commissars to keep them in line.
- Some Storm Troopers dropping into their backlines with Meltas or Plasma (perhaps accompanied by the Tempestor guy).

Any thoughts or suggestions?


You would have to rely on rough riders to use up fast attack slots if you still wanted to fill a brigade.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

 vipoid wrote:
Any thoughts on running an infantry-only IG army?

- Loads of Infantry with Lascannons, Missiles, Autocannons, Plasma, and maybe Flamers and Meltas.
- Perhaps some HWSs with Lascannons, Missiles or Autocannons.
- SWSs with Meltas or Flamers.
- Company Commanders and Platoon Commanders to hand out orders.
- Yarrick or other Commissars to keep them in line.
- Some Storm Troopers dropping into their backlines with Meltas or Plasma (perhaps accompanied by the Tempestor guy).

Any thoughts or suggestions?


I think it's the obvious starting point. Scions are the most cost effective and reliable source of damage in the list, there's no reason not to maximize those. LRBTs seem underwhelming, and chimeras are very pricy for what they do. Not providing any multi wound models (well, not counting characters or heavy weapon teams) will suck the life out of opposing lascannons and meltas.

I think we'll see conscripts for bubble wrap (first turn charges are real), and SWS or command squads for counter attacks, but all infantry looks like it might be very strong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Trickstick wrote:
You would have to rely on rough riders to use up fast attack slots if you still wanted to fill a brigade.


Riders don't seem bad now. Sentinels are still the cheapest FA if you just want to pay the tax. The problem is that they actually cost more now, while the multilaser is now deeply mediocre (instead of being fair to middling).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 14:25:05


My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in us
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 Therion wrote:


It's funny how I/we stumbled on this Taurox Prime by simply doing the math and testing. The way they changed the to-wound table affects so many things. T6 is the same as T8 against S9. S4 is the same as S6 against T7. Everything plays into the Taurox's advantage.


I hadn't looked at offensive math yet, but I had been thinking from a defensive point of view, light armor is the optimal support vehicle for primarily infantry based armies. It's about as strong against heavy AT as a Russ, and the weapon types that are strong against it are often anti-infantry weapons, so you get an element of target saturation.

It's interesting with the new rules how much better the Prime is over the stock Taurox. The main thing the regular one has is that it can carry any AM infantry, while the Prime is limited to Tempestus and Commissars.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 14:29:16


 
   
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

Four autocannon shots will do some work, but I'm not sure that range is as big a deal as it's been in past editions. Four decent shots is still worse than 20 S4 shots...

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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 vipoid wrote:
Any thoughts on running an infantry-only IG army?

- Loads of Infantry with Lascannons, Missiles, Autocannons, Plasma, and maybe Flamers and Meltas.
- Perhaps some HWSs with Lascannons, Missiles or Autocannons.
- SWSs with Meltas or Flamers.
- Company Commanders and Platoon Commanders to hand out orders.
- Yarrick or other Commissars to keep them in line.
- Some Storm Troopers dropping into their backlines with Meltas or Plasma (perhaps accompanied by the Tempestor guy).

Any thoughts or suggestions?
Yes, quite a bit. Here are two different lists that show examples of this.
   
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Rough riders still only have a 45% ish chance to make a 9" charge, rerolling the lowest die with a CP. Not greatly reliable at outflanking charges.

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