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2017/10/29 19:17:53
Subject: New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)
Lance845 wrote: If Jormungder data is true I think thats going to be my fleet depending on the actual wording for some of the rules.
Giving an army wide +1 save, a stratgem to deepsrike things that could not normally deepstrike or get other units to accompany Ravenors like it's a trygon tunnel (gotta wait for what exactly this is) could bea mssive first turn threat overload, along with the changes to some of the other units...
Mother of god.
It won't be a blanket +1 save, it'll be like the lictor save where you get an additional +1 while in cover.
2017/10/29 19:21:07
Subject: New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)
Lance845 wrote: If Jormungder data is true I think thats going to be my fleet depending on the actual wording for some of the rules.
Giving an army wide +1 save, a stratgem to deepsrike things that could not normally deepstrike or get other units to accompany Ravenors like it's a trygon tunnel (gotta wait for what exactly this is) could bea mssive first turn threat overload, along with the changes to some of the other units...
Mother of god.
It won't be a blanket +1 save, it'll be like the lictor save where you get an additional +1 while in cover.
I don't think so
2017/10/29 19:23:14
Subject: New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)
Lance845 wrote: If Jormungder data is true I think thats going to be my fleet depending on the actual wording for some of the rules.
Giving an army wide +1 save, a stratgem to deepsrike things that could not normally deepstrike or get other units to accompany Ravenors like it's a trygon tunnel (gotta wait for what exactly this is) could bea mssive first turn threat overload, along with the changes to some of the other units...
Mother of god.
It won't be a blanket +1 save, it'll be like the lictor save where you get an additional +1 while in cover.
We have no factual information either way.
We have a single rumor source that seems to be pretty on point with other people confirming his stuff (which is more or less meaningless admittedly) but he did know the name of Kronus which is quite a coincidence otherwise.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2017/10/29 19:23:32
Subject: New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)
Don't forget that with pre-orders in a week and release in two weeks chances are that distributors are already getting access to stock and stores will soon be getting theirs as well (assuming GW doesn't bank on shipping everything in a week).
So rumours are going to start appearing everywhere as people get a sneak glance into the contents (esp any stores that keep "store copies" and so will break open one edition for the store/display copy
Warhammer Community says they will be reporting later on this week - but Hydra is re-roll hits in close combat against units they outnumber as leaked. So I reckon the rumours are probably correct.
2017/10/29 19:46:03
Subject: New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)
Tyel wrote: Warhammer Community says they will be reporting later on this week - but Hydra is re-roll hits in close combat against units they outnumber as leaked. So I reckon the rumours are probably correct.
Seems like with the Eldar rumors and the main gist of the tactic was done but the exact wording is inaccurate.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/10/29 20:39:04
Subject: New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/10/29 22:39:23
Subject: New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)
PhillyT wrote: Is the rumor a +1 to AS or a +1 to cover save?
I can totally buy the idea of a +1 cover save. A flat increase to AS is a totally different animal.
There are no cover saves any more. The wording is unknown but the rumor was army wide being in terrain. Which is a +1 to save. So whats the actual difference besides not being able to be in terrain twice (something we never got with the models that need it most because fitting 30 models in terrain is impossible).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/29 22:46:07
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2017/10/29 22:49:46
Subject: New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)
The idea is that all models from that hive fleet would always count as being in cover, thus an army-wide +1 to armor in simple terms. Obviously this isn't as good as an actual army wide +1 to armor, since you can't get cover twice so a unit that would already have a cover save (like a unit of infantry in ruins) wouldn't have any benefit. Additionally, cover doesn't apply in melee and there are relatively common means which ignore cover (such as flamer weapons or Fists/Warriors). That all said, it would still be a very strong benefit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/29 22:50:03
NinthMusketeer wrote: The idea is that all models from that hive fleet would always count as being in cover, thus an army-wide +1 to armor in simple terms. Obviously this isn't as good as an actual army wide +1 to armor, since you can't get cover twice so a unit that would already have a cover save (like a unit of infantry in ruins) wouldn't have any benefit. Additionally, cover doesn't apply in melee and there are relatively common means which ignore cover (such as flamer weapons or Fists/Warriors). That all said, it would still be a very strong benefit.
Not all flamer weapons ignore cover.
2017/10/30 00:16:33
Subject: New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)
Forcing people to close into melee to negate the bonus from cover, and making them want to be within 12" to not be penalized with shooting means they will want melee deterrent units to keep from losing shoot elements.
Everyone talks about how this edition is shootier than most, then complain about the army bonuses that make shooting less effective.
Add something to punch things in the face or at least shoot point blank. Variety in army composition will give you a better chance at victory, as the codexes come out.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The idea is that all models from that hive fleet would always count as being in cover, thus an army-wide +1 to armor in simple terms. Obviously this isn't as good as an actual army wide +1 to armor, since you can't get cover twice so a unit that would already have a cover save (like a unit of infantry in ruins) wouldn't have any benefit. Additionally, cover doesn't apply in melee and there are relatively common means which ignore cover (such as flamer weapons or Fists/Warriors). That all said, it would still be a very strong benefit.
Not all flamer weapons ignore cover.
Acxtually, weapons that flat out ignore cover benefits (as opposed to a -1 AP modifier) are very few and far between, the Nids Impaler Cannon being the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
This trait would be basically permenant Shroud Psalm for Nids.
2017/10/30 02:41:44
Subject: New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)
NinthMusketeer wrote: The idea is that all models from that hive fleet would always count as being in cover, thus an army-wide +1 to armor in simple terms. Obviously this isn't as good as an actual army wide +1 to armor, since you can't get cover twice so a unit that would already have a cover save (like a unit of infantry in ruins) wouldn't have any benefit. Additionally, cover doesn't apply in melee and there are relatively common means which ignore cover (such as flamer weapons or Fists/Warriors). That all said, it would still be a very strong benefit.
Not all flamer weapons ignore cover.
You're right, I should've said 'certain flamer weapons', I did not mean to suggest that flamer type weapons universally ignore cover.
Not stepping on the news and rumors thread, just getting the tactics discussion started. Wanted to let people know that this will be updated at lest daily over the next week as the GW articles come out. I got some stuff on there from the Tyranid Hive that I didn't see here yet.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2017/10/30 03:32:11
Subject: New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)
luke1705 wrote: It’s been confirmed by people with the codex that it just acts to give all Tyranid models the benefit of cover. Doesn’t stack with actual cover
Suddenly an influx of Imperial Fist and Iron Warriors players shout from the roof tops "My trait is now slightly viable compared to others!"
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |
2017/10/30 04:50:57
Subject: New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)
luke1705 wrote: It’s been confirmed by people with the codex that it just acts to give all Tyranid models the benefit of cover. Doesn’t stack with actual cover
Suddenly an influx of Imperial Fist and Iron Warriors players shout from the roof tops "My trait is now slightly viable compared to others!"
Good on them, they need some relevance. Maybe if Nids are nasty enough they'll be more common in the circuit?
Hah.
But from all the tidbits over on the Hive, I can see playing nids to be once again quite fulfilling. Time to start talking to my crew about some narrative campaigns.
PourSpelur wrote: It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
luke1705 wrote: It’s been confirmed by people with the codex that it just acts to give all Tyranid models the benefit of cover. Doesn’t stack with actual cover
Suddenly an influx of Imperial Fist and Iron Warriors players shout from the roof tops "My trait is now slightly viable compared to others!"
Hard to beat Ultramarines trait of "Roboute Guiliman" Ignoring cover doesn't do much compared to rerolling everything. Cover doesn't really matter except on the bugs with good nature armor, which lascannons will still handle decently.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/30 06:08:42
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2017/10/30 06:47:39
Subject: New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)
luke1705 wrote: It’s been confirmed by people with the codex that it just acts to give all Tyranid models the benefit of cover. Doesn’t stack with actual cover
Suddenly an influx of Imperial Fist and Iron Warriors players shout from the roof tops "My trait is now slightly viable compared to others!"
Hard to beat Ultramarines trait of "Roboute Guiliman" Ignoring cover doesn't do much compared to rerolling everything. Cover doesn't really matter except on the bugs with good nature armor, which lascannons will still handle decently.
It turns the 6+ saves into 5+ saves. Since most anti horde guns are either ap-0 or ap -1 it either gives our little horde units a 1/3rd chance to save or lets us keep our save, bad as it is. But it also takes a carnifexes 3+ and makes it a 2+. Warriors go from 3+ to 2+.
It's pretty damn great all around.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
The two people with the Codex over at The Tyranid Hive asked me to clarify Jormungandr. The Warlord trait has a decent amount of caveats:
A unit with this adaptation (other than units that can Fly) always has the benefit of cover for the purpose of shooting attacks. If the unit advances or charges, however, it loses the benefits of this adaptation until the start of your next movement phase.
Sorry people got really excited before it was clarified. Still good, but not as good. Pretty much meant for gunlines so you don't have to find cover.
JesseS wrote: The two people with the Codex over at The Tyranid Hive asked me to clarify Jormungandr. The Warlord trait has a decent amount of caveats:
A unit with this adaptation (other than units that can Fly) always has the benefit of cover for the purpose of shooting attacks. If the unit advances or charges, however, it loses the benefits of this adaptation until the start of your next movement phase.
Sorry people got really excited before it was clarified. Still good, but not as good. Pretty much meant for gunlines so you don't have to find cover.
Ive been watching the thread over there throughout the day. Just saw your guys discussion over there and updated it in my tactica thread. Hope you guys don't mind me copy pasting to keep the guys over here informed of the latest and greatest rumor dump since 8th dropped.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Synapse is now 12" base, 18" for HTs IB indeed has a -1 to hit Malus for shooting. BUT only if you aim at something that isn't the closest unit
Likewise it's -2 charge distance(I think) if you attempt to charge something that isn't the closest unit
Hive Fleet traits (apply to everything)
* complete*
behemoth: reroll failed charges
Kraken: can charge after falling back
Gorgon: reroll 1s to hit for fight phase
jormungandr: always have cover bonus (i'm not sure if i read this right)
hydra: reroll misses against units with less models during fight phase
kronos: reroll 1s to hit for shooting, IF the unit doesnt move
Leviathan: looks to be the same as salamander tactic but i'm not 100% sure
Psychic Powers
* missing at least 3 powers*
Psychic scream, WC5, Targets nearest enemy within 18" does d3 mortal wounds. if the target is a psyker, also roll 2d6. if the value is higher than the enemy psyker's leadership, the enemy psyker loses 1 spell at random
paroxysm WC5, target enemy unit within 12" of the psyker fights last. (there's a whole big ass block of text here talking about exceptions and what not)
*cant remember the name* target unit within 36" of the psyker essentially gains synapse
warp blast is the same except at a unit of 6 it deals d3+3 instead of d3+d3
Warlord Traits
1) First battle turn, before first turn, you can remove your warlord and set them up again.
2) Never suffer any hit roll penalties. Overwatch still on 6s.
3) Add 6" synapse
4) WL kill a character in fight, friendly hive unit in 3" , get to move as per normal again at end of phase.
5) Before battle start, choose opponent unit. WL reroll all failed hit rolls against that all units with the same dataslate. (etc. All obliterator squads)
6) After end of any phase, wlt take a wound, remaining of battle, all dmg to wl -1
Behemoth: WOund roll of 6 in fight phase. that attack +1 dmg Kraken: 1 friendly kraken unit within 6 of wlt, can fight first in fight phase even without charging
Leviathan : 1 per battle round. you can reroll a single hit/wound/dmg /advance charge or saving throw for the wl.
Gorgon: end of fight phase. roll d6 for every enemy within 1" of warlord. on 4+, that unit suffer a MW.
Jormungandr: Enemy unit dont gain bonus to saving throw for being in cover by attacks from wl, or friendly Jormungandr units within 3 of wl.
Hydra: Beginning of each of your turn, roll a dice for each wound WL suffered, on a 6, heal.
Kronos: Enemy psyker fail a psychic test within 18 of your wl, they suffer D3 MW
Stratagems
1cp the enemy below (jormungandr)
use strat when jor inf set up, put it undergorund. whenever you set up raveners mawloc trygon or trygon prime. any no of its unit can be set up within the tunnels, 3 inch from burrowing unit ,9 inch away enemy.
1cp brute force (behemoth)
use when benemoth unit complete charge . roll d6 for each behemoth charging model within 1inch of enemy. each roll of 6, 1 MW on enemy unit. 2+ for a behemoth monster charging
(30 man gant charge in, roll d6 for all, on a 6 chuck a mw)
1cp war on all fronts (leviathan)
fight phase. select enemy within 1inch of 1 flying and 1 nonflying leviathan unit. can reroll hits & wound rolls of 1 for levi attacks against the enemy unit
1cp Against Shadow (Kronos)
enemy psyker attempts to cast a spell within 24 inch of kronos unit. that psyker can only use 1 dice for his psyk test.
1cp Hypertoxicity (Gorgon)
fight phase. choose gorgon wiht toxin sac, the biomorph do 1 additional dmg on wounds roll of 5+ instead of 6
2cp Endless Swarm
Select a destroyed unit of gants, horms, garg or any hydra inf unit that has been completely destroyted. Add an identical unit to your army and set it up as reinforcement wholly 6inch of any board edge , more than 9 inch from enemy
1cp Opportunistic Advance
Use in move phase for advancing Kraken unit (noFly units), can double number you roll for advance and add to the move characteristic
3cp Call the Brood
end of move. add a new unit of up to 5 genestealers, wholly within 6 of a brood or infestation node but more than 9 from enemy
3Cp adrenaline surge
end of fight phase. select a nid unit from army, can immediately fight again
2cp Digestive Denial
After deployment but before turn start. choose a piece of terrain othre than fortifciation.
Units fullywithin or on this piece of terrain do not gain any bonus to their saving throws for being in cover.....
lol if anyone piles their whole army onto one big terrain in their deployment.
2cp single minded annihilation
end of shoot phase, choose inf unit, shoot again lol (devil gants/hiveguard lol)
1cp grisly feast
morale phase. select ripper or haru. enenemy within 6 inch must add 1 to morale test
2cp pathogenic slime
shooting phase. select nid mon. increase dmg of its attack by for this phase. lol 2dmg dakka flyrant/exo/tyrannofex
3cp sporefield
after both armies deploy, add up 2 unit of spore mines as reinf, more than 12 inch from enemy
1cp invisible hunter
move phase. lictor within 1 inhc of enemy. that model can fall back shoot and charge.
1cp power of the hive mind
end of psyk phase, choose a nid spyker that casted earlier, can cast 1 additional power
1cp pheromone trail
choose when nid inf set up as reinf/reserve. if got lictor on battlefield, you can set up wholly within 6 inch of lictor and more than 9 from enemy
2cp death frenzy
use when nid char die, it can shoot again as if it were shooting phase, or fight again as if fight phase before its removal
1cp overrun
use when nid unit destroys an unit in fight, and not within 3 inch of enemy. that you unit can forgo consolidation, but move and advance as if movement phase but cannot move within 1inch of enemy model
1cp voracious appetite
fight phase, nid mon or character is chosen to fight.can reroll all failed wounds for that model til end of phase
psk barrage
need 3x3 zoans to shoot a point, all unit within 3 inch of that point rolls. 4+ unit suffer 3d3 mortal
1cp caustic blood
start of fight phase.select nid unit, roll d6 when a model dies, on 6 enemy suffer mw
2cp rapid regen
end of mov, heal d3
1cp scorch bugs
shoot phase
seelect nid, +1 to wound for all feshborer or fleshborer hive attacks
1cp feeder tendrils
when gene lictor toxi venom kills a chara in fight phase, gain d3 cp 1cp implant attack
use aft nid unit fight in fight phase. roll d6 for each wounded enemy model and not slain. 2+ suffer , model suffers a mw
1/3cp bounty of hive fleet
artefact thing
1cp metabolic movement
use in move , after a nid unit as movemed. you can move that unit again includ advance. however roll a d6 for every model, on a 1 , unit gets a MW. cannot shoot or charge that turn.
Relics
*missing most relics*
there is a relic for any character that gives either +1S, +1A or +1T during fight phase. roll dice to see which buff
its a relic venom cannon. same stats as a venom cannon except d6 shots. but if the target is within 12" it auto hits and always wounds on 2+
most of the artefacts are soso. but there is a 30 inch norm crown that negates the effect of IB, but doesn't give you anything else.
Kraken relic: -1 to hit from enemy shooting
Gorgon relic: after being wounded the first time gain 1T for the rest of the game
Reaper of obliterax(bonesword/whip or monstrous bonesword & whip) on 6 to wound do double damage
Units / Wargear
<General>
A lot of weapons cost are slightly cheaper and inbuilt into the base cost of units that only can have them.
i dont have the numbers but there are many reductions in costs for big bug melee and ranged weapons. eg. massive scything are now 10pts. massive scything talons in a pair are cheaper too (cant remember exact number). monstrous scything talons are much cheaper too. carnifex comes stock with tresher scythe which is now zero points and is the same wording as the hive tyrant. which is, it makes its profile attacks, which in the codex is 4, and then also makes the tail attack, which is now 1d3 attacks.
tyrant guard still suck. scything talons are still 0. rending claws are still 2. boneswords are still 4. crushing claws are 12 (stats unchanged)
<points> warriors are still the same. zoanthropes are the same. haruspex has a big one. biovores are the same. the spore mine rules are the same too. hiveguard are either the same or has an inconsequential decrease in points.
Stinger salvos are now 24 inches
Heavy venom canon are now d3 S9 Ap2 3damage
Stranglethorn is 25pts
1x Devourer with brainleech is 7pts. Assault 6
1x deathspitter with maggot is 7pt. Assault 3
Monstrous boneswords are 20pts
Monstrous boneswords with whip are 15pts
our hive tyrant is now t7, 12W. wings will have deepstrike. has a base 4++. down one attack [to 4]. didnt manage to see the pointage or the wargear options. no idea if monstrous rending claws are still a thing.
hive tyrants can still take MRC
Swarmlord does still have hive commander. On 6s to wound he does one additional mortal wound
swarmlord is t7, 12w, 4++. his blade parry makes it 3++. no other notable change i think. uses leviathan warlord trait
old one is is now 9 wounds. 200 pts. hits of 6 generate one additional attack. can be equipped with a scything talons relic that +1s ap-3, 3dmg, +1 attack. uses behemoth warlord trait. No degradation
Neurothrope is now HQ, a character and no longer part of a zoanthrope unit. zoanthropes within 6" of a neurothrope reroll 1s for psychic tests. the spirit leech thing now only heals 1 wound for a zoanthrope unit withint 6"
Neurothropes are 70 points all in
maleceptors deal 3 mortal wounds if we roll a 6 on that weird aoe ability. it knows 2 spells and can cast and deny 2 spells. also t7. also 4++
maleceptors total pointage including wargear is 172. T7, 12W
venomthropes and zoans are still fielded as units of 3
venomthropes when in grp of 3 also affect monsters. when in a grp of 6, the aura becomes 6".
genestealers remain the same. but have an option of getting +1 armour but they lose swift and deadly. (wtfGW)
bs4 got flesh hook as option
New ability: infestion can put 4 nodes in ur own deploy area , if enemy near it , it disappears. you can pop up from any of the 4 nodes as per normal ds/reserve.
Gargoyles gain DS no changes to raveners..
Shrikes are gone
Crone lost 1 base attack but tail weapon is free attack. Tentaclids are 4 shots
Red Terror -1 WS/A
Toxicrene - toxic lash are AP-2
tyrannocyte is now 100 pts. 5pts for each deathspitter. Transport rules unchanged
exocrine with all wargear is 210 or something like that. minor points decrease
tyranofex is 185 pts.
rupture cannon is 47 or 49. rupture cannon profile is heavy 3, s10 ap-3 d6 damage. thats all. no more funky "if it hits both..blablabla"
Acid spray 18" 2D6 hits
there are now 3 seperate carnifex entries. 1.) Carnifex 2.) Screamer killer 3.) Thornback
carnifex including 2x monstrous scything talons clock in total at 83 pts.. the 2 pairs of monstrous scything talons for carnifexes are 15 pts, 1 pair is 14 pts. yes.. i know. dont ask me why.
there are individual upgrades for basic carnifexes. +1BS, +1 attack on the charge, -1 to hit from enemy shooting. on the charge carnifexes and screamer killers now get +1 WS on top of the current battering ram rule
screamer killers come stock with "bio plasmic scream" which is 0 points, 12" assault 6(not sure on the number), S7 ap-1, 1damage. screamer killers come stock with 2 monstrous scything talons as well. 90 pts in total
Thornbacks are base 70.
at the end of combat roll d6 for each enemy unit in combat with it. on 6 deal 1 mortal wound
Starts with 2 devourers with brainleech worm
It can swap the devourers with deathspitters with maggots
And a pair of monstrous scything talons
It can swap the claws with a stranglethorn only.
And a chitin biomorph
for the carnifex biomorphs:
-1 to hit from enemy shooting biomorph is 10 pts - does not stack with shrouding spores
+1 attack on the charge is 8 pts
+1 BS is 10 points