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 Mmmpi wrote:
Also, keep in mind, there's a hard limit to orders. Nine.

That's more of a soft limit really. You can get another of +1cp. Then you have Creed, Straken, warlord trait, Scion orders etc.

While I did forget about the first three characters, Scion orders don't apply to normal guardsmen.

 Mmmpi wrote:
While I did forget about the first three characters, Scion orders don't apply to normal guardsmen.

if you wnt to get super duper technical there is no hard limit on orders, because you could 4+s on the laurels of command forever.

 Mmmpi wrote:
While I did forget about the first three characters, Scion orders don't apply to normal guardsmen.

Yeah, I was including Scions for the sake of completeness. Whilst they can't order Guardsmen, Scions do allow you to add more squads receiving orders to your force. They can also get the Tactical Auto-Reliquary, which gives +1 order.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
While I did forget about the first three characters, Scion orders don't apply to normal guardsmen.

if you wnt to get super duper technical there is no hard limit on orders, because you could 4+s on the laurels of command forever.

Or you could never roll the 4+ and get nothing for it.

 Mmmpi wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
While I did forget about the first three characters, Scion orders don't apply to normal guardsmen.

if you wnt to get super duper technical there is no hard limit on orders, because you could 4+s on the laurels of command forever.

Or you could never roll the 4+ and get nothing for it.

That's not usually how "hard limits" work.

I tell a lie though - since you can only order one unit once, and some of the orders are conflicting, you can only issue 4 max on each unit you've laurels'd.

So, the actual hardmax orders would be:

Comcom with master of command and laurels with Kell: 16
Other two comcoms: 4
Platcoms: 3
Creed: 3
tank commanders: 3
Pask: 2
temp primes: 3

So, 26 infantry orders, 5 tank orders and 3 tempestus orders, theoretical maximum. Worth considering if you're playing a 9000 or so point game and you have the rule of 3 active.

Mmmpi 768621 10283987 75809f10970bbb4dc24a2252a89f9a8a wrote:

I didn't see any mono-factions when I looked up lists. They were all soup. Pretty much my deffinition of an IG list is one where the major components of the list are IG. I've already said that those had a brigade, and all but one of those had six squads of IG IS's. No more than that. Which is the minimum requirement for a brigade. None of those lists took a 2nd guard battalion. Every list where another imperial army was the major faction, they took at best a battalion, usually the L32, sometimes a few mortar squads.

Most of the lists where they're taken it's either to make the requirements for a brigade, and even then, they only got upgrades a fraction of the time. At least a third of the lists left half their IS's with just las guns. The only thing else was the L32, usually just with a mortar team.
So, no. No one is spamming imperial guard infantry squads. (IGIS). They either take a battery, or the bare minimum for a brigade.

You didn't see any mono lists at all? Then your data is incomplete.

I'm not sure of the point in telling me that 'lists that didn't take primary IG didn't have a brigade of IG'. That would be obvious and expected. Where lists are primary IG are where we see the double battalions and Brigades. And both are taken regularly. As I mentioned there have been multiple lists that took 8 units of Guardsmen which is obviously more than the minimum for a brigade.

Personally I would say that if an unit is an autotake in a soup list then it is spammed. Whether 32 or 80 are taken the fact of the matter is that they feature in 90 odd percent of Imperium lists.

They can also perform feats that don't make any sense in game, like move faster than a super human or even a supersonic jet. They can fire twice as fast as other units. Or magically increase their armour to ludicrous levels. It makes no sense and breaks all immersion. Even for Guard players in my experience.

the_scotsman wrote:
temp primes: 3

*Cough Command Rods and Auto-Reliquary = 7 Cough*

Also stratagem for +1.

 Trickstick wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
temp primes: 3

*Cough Command Rods and Auto-Reliquary = 7 Cough*

Also stratagem for +1.

Mea culpa on the reliquary and command rods, but remember that +1 is actually +4 because you put it on your guy with the laurels who always rolls 3 4+s every time he issues an order.

that puts us at 34.

Never talk about hard limits on a forum full of rules lawyering pedants

the_scotsman wrote:
Never talk about hard limits on a forum full of rules lawyering pedants

I'm not sure I understand your 4 order limit. Why can't I order a unit to Take Aim, roll 4+ then order frfsrf, roll 4+ then order bring it down, and do this for the 6 normal orders +1 regimental order (for example, the catachan one). You could even do 7+1 if you are within 1" of an enemy, as fix bayonets is the only order with any restriction.

Edit: Was looking at FAQ in case I missed something, then saw that I had forgot about Superior Tactical Training. That would be even more orders.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not. Commissars are NEVER going to be viable again. Period. End of story.

It's hardly beyond the realms of possibility. A single rule change and any unit can shoot up in viability.

It would require a reversion that they're too invested at this point to do. They've "reworked" the rule multiple times and it's still garbage.

Commissars are never going to be viable again. Anyone thinking they will be is deluding themselves. Commissars are trash and good fething riddance to those wastes of product space. Let the Renegades and Heretics have them, I'd rather get something useful in space of the two wasted slots(HQ and Elites) that they take up in my book and the product range.

Why do you consider them a waste? Obviously they suck NOW, but the idea is sound.

Because we could have had a more characterful unit instead. Commissars should have been restricted to a unit upgrade for Conscripts and that's it.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Because we could have had a more characterful unit instead. Commissars should have been restricted to a unit upgrade for Conscripts and that's it.

Commissars are not characterful? One of the most iconic Guard units?

 Trickstick wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
temp primes: 3

*Cough Command Rods and Auto-Reliquary = 7 Cough*

Also stratagem for +1.

And why does everyone forget about the Master of Command WT?

+1=8
Though, Scions list is still going to need more orders than that if evey unit is on table.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Mmmpi 768621 10283987 75809f10970bbb4dc24a2252a89f9a8a wrote:

I didn't see any mono-factions when I looked up lists. They were all soup. Pretty much my deffinition of an IG list is one where the major components of the list are IG. I've already said that those had a brigade, and all but one of those had six squads of IG IS's. No more than that. Which is the minimum requirement for a brigade. None of those lists took a 2nd guard battalion. Every list where another imperial army was the major faction, they took at best a battalion, usually the L32, sometimes a few mortar squads.

Most of the lists where they're taken it's either to make the requirements for a brigade, and even then, they only got upgrades a fraction of the time. At least a third of the lists left half their IS's with just las guns. The only thing else was the L32, usually just with a mortar team.
So, no. No one is spamming imperial guard infantry squads. (IGIS). They either take a battery, or the bare minimum for a brigade.

You didn't see any mono lists at all? Then your data is incomplete.

I'm not sure of the point in telling me that 'lists that didn't take primary IG didn't have a brigade of IG'. That would be obvious and expected. Where lists are primary IG are where we see the double battalions and Brigades. And both are taken regularly. As I mentioned there have been multiple lists that took 8 units of Guardsmen which is obviously more than the minimum for a brigade.

Personally I would say that if an unit is an autotake in a soup list then it is spammed. Whether 32 or 80 are taken the fact of the matter is that they feature in 90 odd percent of Imperium lists.

They can also perform feats that don't make any sense in game, like move faster than a super human or even a supersonic jet. They can fire twice as fast as other units. Or magically increase their armour to ludicrous levels. It makes no sense and breaks all immersion. Even for Guard players in my experience.

And both used a bare minimum of Guard infantry. Not the 10+ squads they could have taken. I saw one list that took more than 6, and at least half were naked.

And I say I disagree with your definition of spammed, as I use a more conventional usage.

As for feats of 'orders', well that's the game. The problem is more that Supersonic Jets are moving under 50 MPH, not that guard are running faster than them. They can fire twice as fast...with las guns. And I'm not sure what order you're looking at that increases their armor.

Your experience is different than mine. I find the orders mostly flaverful. God forbid a non-super soldier gets a special rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:


Never talk about hard limits on a forum full of rules lawyering pedants

Yeah, that's what I get for an off the cuff post. Should have done my research a bit more.

 Mmmpi wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Mmmpi 768621 10283987 75809f10970bbb4dc24a2252a89f9a8a wrote:

I didn't see any mono-factions when I looked up lists. They were all soup. Pretty much my deffinition of an IG list is one where the major components of the list are IG. I've already said that those had a brigade, and all but one of those had six squads of IG IS's. No more than that. Which is the minimum requirement for a brigade. None of those lists took a 2nd guard battalion. Every list where another imperial army was the major faction, they took at best a battalion, usually the L32, sometimes a few mortar squads.

Most of the lists where they're taken it's either to make the requirements for a brigade, and even then, they only got upgrades a fraction of the time. At least a third of the lists left half their IS's with just las guns. The only thing else was the L32, usually just with a mortar team.
So, no. No one is spamming imperial guard infantry squads. (IGIS). They either take a battery, or the bare minimum for a brigade.

You didn't see any mono lists at all? Then your data is incomplete.

I'm not sure of the point in telling me that 'lists that didn't take primary IG didn't have a brigade of IG'. That would be obvious and expected. Where lists are primary IG are where we see the double battalions and Brigades. And both are taken regularly. As I mentioned there have been multiple lists that took 8 units of Guardsmen which is obviously more than the minimum for a brigade.

Personally I would say that if an unit is an autotake in a soup list then it is spammed. Whether 32 or 80 are taken the fact of the matter is that they feature in 90 odd percent of Imperium lists.

They can also perform feats that don't make any sense in game, like move faster than a super human or even a supersonic jet. They can fire twice as fast as other units. Or magically increase their armour to ludicrous levels. It makes no sense and breaks all immersion. Even for Guard players in my experience.

And both used a bare minimum of Guard infantry. Not the 10+ squads they could have taken. I saw one list that took more than 6, and at least half were naked.

And I say I disagree with your definition of spammed, as I use a more conventional usage.

As for feats of 'orders', well that's the game. The problem is more that Supersonic Jets are moving under 50 MPH, not that guard are running faster than them. They can fire twice as fast...with las guns. And I'm not sure what order you're looking at that increases their armor.

Your experience is different than mine. I find the orders mostly flaverful. God forbid a non-super soldier gets a special rule.

The only things I’m aware of that can increase guardsman armor saves from the IG codex are the psychic power Psychic Barrier and the Stratagem Take Cover!

 Trickstick wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Because we could have had a more characterful unit instead. Commissars should have been restricted to a unit upgrade for Conscripts and that's it.

Commissars are not characterful? One of the most iconic Guard units?

If you want to make that argument, then you should remember that the "iconic" Commissars aren't. The Gaunts and Yarricks and whatever the hell his name is from the crummy joke books?

They're the exception to the rules.

 Apple Peel wrote:
And why does everyone forget about the Master of Command WT?

I would say that you could get more from Superior Tactical Training doubling every order a Commander gives. Creed + Kell would give 4, +1 for stratagem is 5, then with STT you could double it to 10. Although it would probably be better to go with a company commander +kell+strat for 4, then STT and Laurels for 56.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about commissars being a part of the guard army, and a major part of the guard lore in general since the guard were an army. Not the named characters from the novels.

And the Cain books are hilarious.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Because we could have had a more characterful unit instead. Commissars should have been restricted to a unit upgrade for Conscripts and that's it.

Commissars are not characterful? One of the most iconic Guard units?

If you want to make that argument, then you should remember that the "iconic" Commissars aren't. The Gaunts and Yarricks and whatever the hell his name is from the crummy joke books?

They're the exception to the rules.

Most book characters are exceptions to the rule. Otherwise there isn't much interesting to write about them as they're either boring or dead

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Because we could have had a more characterful unit instead. Commissars should have been restricted to a unit upgrade for Conscripts and that's it.

Commissars are not characterful? One of the most iconic Guard units?

If you want to make that argument, then you should remember that the "iconic" Commissars aren't. The Gaunts and Yarricks and whatever the hell his name is from the crummy joke books?

They're the exception to the rules.

I think they are pretty useful and Flavorful. I’m especially appreciative that I can take a lord Commissar, so I can take two Scion battalions. That deserves a backstory for him in my army’s fluff. So, at least for me, I think they are decently iconic. Plus, the memes.

 Mmmpi wrote:
I'm pretty sure he's talking about commissars being a part of the guard army, and a major part of the guard lore in general since the guard were an army. Not the named characters from the novels.

And? So what? Nobody took Commissars for anything other than Conscripts, which is why I suggested leaving them as an upgrade to the unit--which actually fits them better, being bullyboys for the most part and the Officio Prefectus being the ones in charge of RIP Platoons out in the field--which is what Conscripts functionally would fall under.


For a "major part of the guard lore in general", they've really only shown up when talking about Conscripts, Valhallans, and Death Korps of Krieg. Arguably for Steel Legion as well but again that falls under the cornercases of "supah speshul commissahs!".

And the Cain books are hilarious.

If you mean "hilariously bad", sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Apple Peel wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Because we could have had a more characterful unit instead. Commissars should have been restricted to a unit upgrade for Conscripts and that's it.

Commissars are not characterful? One of the most iconic Guard units?

If you want to make that argument, then you should remember that the "iconic" Commissars aren't. The Gaunts and Yarricks and whatever the hell his name is from the crummy joke books?

They're the exception to the rules.

I think they are pretty useful and Flavorful. I’m especially appreciative that I can take a lord Commissar, so I can take two Scion battalions. That deserves a backstory for him in my army’s fluff. So, at least for me, I think they are decently iconic. Plus, the memes.

And let's get into this part.
And there it is. "Iconic, plus the memes". Nobody gave a crap about Commissars before the memes really started up.

But seriously you're also trying to now argue that it's a flavorful thing for Scions? The guys who are supposed to be steely killers who don't break are somehow iconically connected to the guys who are supposed to be in charge of babysitting those who will break?

No. This is why we can't have nice things. We could have a second Scion HQ choice but people like you want Commissars. I bet you think it's great that Commissars are in both the Start Collecting sets too.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
I'm pretty sure he's talking about commissars being a part of the guard army, and a major part of the guard lore in general since the guard were an army. Not the named characters from the novels.

And? So what? Nobody took Commissars for anything other than Conscripts, which is why I suggested leaving them as an upgrade to the unit--which actually fits them better, being bullyboys for the most part and the Officio Prefectus being the ones in charge of RIP Platoons out in the field--which is what Conscripts functionally would fall under.


For a "major part of the guard lore in general", they've really only shown up when talking about Conscripts, Valhallans, and Death Korps of Krieg. Arguably for Steel Legion as well but again that falls under the cornercases of "supah speshul commissahs!".

And the Cain books are hilarious.

If you mean "hilariously bad", sure.

Nobody took them for anything but conscripts in 8th. But for at least 3rd -6th people used them with regular guard as well. They still might have used them in 8th after the conscript nerf if commissars weren't nerfed into the ground as well.

Or in random bit of lore for other armies. Such as Cadians. Or the Imperial Navy. Or voystrians. Or Mordians. Or Catachans. Hell Catachans had a special rule to see if they fragged their commissars back in 3rd ed. The only guard army with purpose built models that I've never seen a commissar model with are the old praetorians.

They pop up everywhere in the fluff for guards.

As to the Cain books, to each their own. Just because you have no taste doesn't mean the rest of us don't.

And let's get into this part.
And there it is. "Iconic, plus the memes". Nobody gave a crap about Commissars before the memes really started up.

No, people used them. They just weren't as note worthy.

But seriously you're also trying to now argue that it's a flavorful thing for Scions? The guys who are supposed to be steely killers who don't break are somehow iconically connected to the guys who are supposed to be in charge of babysitting those who will break?

When they rewrote the fluff for stormtroopers they included a part where commissars are assigned to get them to break off, and not follow suicidal stupid orders. Up in the air whether or not it's a'good' part of the fluff. I though it was an ok inclusion, but I hate the rest of the ST fluff to come out recently.

No. This is why we can't have nice things. We could have a second Scion HQ choice but people like you want Commissars. I bet you think it's great that Commissars are in both the Start Collecting sets too.

There is literally no reason we couldn't have both a 2nd ST officer AND commissars. Besides the fact that there isn't a model for a 2nd ST officer, and GW is lazy about models, except for marines.

Lord Commissars are pretty good. Cheap, 2+ to hit, give out ld9. Great little counter charge unit if you give them a relic sword. Sure, they won't go toe-to-toe with close combat monsters but they can clear out normal levels of stuff.

 Kanluwen wrote:

But seriously you're also trying to now argue that it's a flavorful thing for Scions? The guys who are supposed to be steely killers who don't break are somehow iconically connected to the guys who are supposed to be in charge of babysitting those who will break?

Kinda like how Space Marines are rather routinely accompanied and led by Chaplains

The Commissar isnt just there to babysit, the Commissar is there to judge performance of officers, interface with other regiments and administrative imperial structures, perform battlefield intelligence gathering tasks, act as the eyes and ears of upper command echelons, etc. There's lots of reasons they would accompany a Stormtrooper force beyond just babysitting, though little of that is represented in the rules themselves.

No. This is why we can't have nice things. We could have a second Scion HQ choice but people like you want Commissars.

Or...GW just hasn't cared to make one for a niche subfaction that consists of a single plastic kit.

I mean, they couldn't even be arsed to do proper admech HQ's as a full faction.

Blaming people who think commissars have a role in the fluff for lacking more stormtrooper HQ's is...absurd.

 Trickstick wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Never talk about hard limits on a forum full of rules lawyering pedants

I'm not sure I understand your 4 order limit. Why can't I order a unit to Take Aim, roll 4+ then order frfsrf, roll 4+ then order bring it down, and do this for the 6 normal orders +1 regimental order (for example, the catachan one). You could even do 7+1 if you are within 1" of an enemy, as fix bayonets is the only order with any restriction.

Edit: Was looking at FAQ in case I missed something, then saw that I had forgot about Superior Tactical Training. That would be even more orders.

Well, I guess you could amp up their shooting to ridiculous levels then say "screw it, MOVE MOVE MOVE" and you'd have 4 shots rerolling 1s to wound and 1s to hit that you wouldn't get to use because you advanced so that'd be 5 per on ZE UBERCOMMANDERMANDER.

the others are limited because you can't advance when you fell back (so you can't Get Back In the Fight), you can't fight if you are moving around/shooting (so you can't Fix Bayonets) and I wasn't counting move move move because as I said that'd make you not able to shoot at all.

I was going for FRFSRF, Take Aim, Forwards for the Emperor, and Bring it Down as the 4. Alternatively swapping Forwards for Get Back In.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
I'm pretty sure he's talking about commissars being a part of the guard army, and a major part of the guard lore in general since the guard were an army. Not the named characters from the novels.

And? So what? Nobody took Commissars for anything other than Conscripts, which is why I suggested leaving them as an upgrade to the unit--which actually fits them better, being bullyboys for the most part and the Officio Prefectus being the ones in charge of RIP Platoons out in the field--which is what Conscripts functionally would fall under.


For a "major part of the guard lore in general", they've really only shown up when talking about Conscripts, Valhallans, and Death Korps of Krieg. Arguably for Steel Legion as well but again that falls under the cornercases of "supah speshul commissahs!".

And the Cain books are hilarious.

If you mean "hilariously bad", sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Apple Peel wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Because we could have had a more characterful unit instead. Commissars should have been restricted to a unit upgrade for Conscripts and that's it.

Commissars are not characterful? One of the most iconic Guard units?

If you want to make that argument, then you should remember that the "iconic" Commissars aren't. The Gaunts and Yarricks and whatever the hell his name is from the crummy joke books?

They're the exception to the rules.

I think they are pretty useful and Flavorful. I’m especially appreciative that I can take a lord Commissar, so I can take two Scion battalions. That deserves a backstory for him in my army’s fluff. So, at least for me, I think they are decently iconic. Plus, the memes.

And let's get into this part.
And there it is. "Iconic, plus the memes". Nobody gave a crap about Commissars before the memes really started up.

But seriously you're also trying to now argue that it's a flavorful thing for Scions? The guys who are supposed to be steely killers who don't break are somehow iconically connected to the guys who are supposed to be in charge of babysitting those who will break?

No. This is why we can't have nice things. We could have a second Scion HQ choice but people like you want Commissars. I bet you think it's great that Commissars are in both the Start Collecting sets too.

It’s flavorful because with Scion fluff (what little we have), Commissars/Lord Commissars lead/help lead Scion Regiments, they love working with them because they are so efficient, and they get along well because they went to the same bloody school.

If Commissars are super leaders, and Scions are steely killers, imagine the badassery they could get up to.

I’m more or less indifferent about the Commissars in the start collecting boxes. I found when I bought the 8th AM codex that I love Scions. I looked into their lore, even going so far to get a hold of their old codex, and I found Commissars, so I accepted GW’s reasoning and explanation. I don’t particularly like your sour attitude. A whole lot of things start with “people like you.” I’d reevaluate yourself, bud.

 Apple Peel wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Mmmpi 768621 10283987 75809f10970bbb4dc24a2252a89f9a8a wrote:

I didn't see any mono-factions when I looked up lists. They were all soup. Pretty much my deffinition of an IG list is one where the major components of the list are IG. I've already said that those had a brigade, and all but one of those had six squads of IG IS's. No more than that. Which is the minimum requirement for a brigade. None of those lists took a 2nd guard battalion. Every list where another imperial army was the major faction, they took at best a battalion, usually the L32, sometimes a few mortar squads.

Most of the lists where they're taken it's either to make the requirements for a brigade, and even then, they only got upgrades a fraction of the time. At least a third of the lists left half their IS's with just las guns. The only thing else was the L32, usually just with a mortar team.
So, no. No one is spamming imperial guard infantry squads. (IGIS). They either take a battery, or the bare minimum for a brigade.

You didn't see any mono lists at all? Then your data is incomplete.

I'm not sure of the point in telling me that 'lists that didn't take primary IG didn't have a brigade of IG'. That would be obvious and expected. Where lists are primary IG are where we see the double battalions and Brigades. And both are taken regularly. As I mentioned there have been multiple lists that took 8 units of Guardsmen which is obviously more than the minimum for a brigade.

Personally I would say that if an unit is an autotake in a soup list then it is spammed. Whether 32 or 80 are taken the fact of the matter is that they feature in 90 odd percent of Imperium lists.

They can also perform feats that don't make any sense in game, like move faster than a super human or even a supersonic jet. They can fire twice as fast as other units. Or magically increase their armour to ludicrous levels. It makes no sense and breaks all immersion. Even for Guard players in my experience.

And both used a bare minimum of Guard infantry. Not the 10+ squads they could have taken. I saw one list that took more than 6, and at least half were naked.

And I say I disagree with your definition of spammed, as I use a more conventional usage.

As for feats of 'orders', well that's the game. The problem is more that Supersonic Jets are moving under 50 MPH, not that guard are running faster than them. They can fire twice as fast...with las guns. And I'm not sure what order you're looking at that increases their armor.

Your experience is different than mine. I find the orders mostly flaverful. God forbid a non-super soldier gets a special rule.

The only things I’m aware of that can increase guardsman armor saves from the IG codex are the psychic power Psychic Barrier and the Stratagem Take Cover!

Yeah. And honestly, given the limits on those things (both once per turn, both requiring expenditure of CPs/psychic test) they are perfectly fine and not particularly immersion-breaking. The immersion break for me is when 50 guardsmen and their officers up and book it faster than every other "fast" troop in the game and faster than most bikes/mounted units to secure an objective somewhere, or get boosted to crazy levels and double-attack to wipe out 20 ork boyz. Orders and their versatility make guardsmen feel far more "super" than the "super-human" factions like marines or eldar.

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, I guess you could amp up their shooting to ridiculous levels then say "screw it, MOVE MOVE MOVE" and you'd have 4 shots rerolling 1s to wound and 1s to hit that you wouldn't get to use because you advanced so that'd be 5 per on ZE UBERCOMMANDERMANDER.

the others are limited because you can't advance when you fell back (so you can't Get Back In the Fight), you can't fight if you are moving around/shooting (so you can't Fix Bayonets) and I wasn't counting move move move because as I said that'd make you not able to shoot at all.

I was going for FRFSRF, Take Aim, Forwards for the Emperor, and Bring it Down as the 4. Alternatively swapping Forwards for Get Back In.

Technically you don't have to have fallen back to GBITF, or have advanced to FFTE. They would have no effect, but you can still use them. I'm not sure how MMM interacts with things.

Yarrick was literally THE iconic special character and commisars the well known guard hq since at least the early 90s. There's unpopular opinion and then there's not knowing ya history. Noobs...

Dai wrote:
Yarrick was literally THE iconic special character and commisars the well known guard hq since at least the early 90s. There's unpopular opinion and then there's not knowing ya history. Noobs...

...calls people "noobs" while holding up a character that showed up in 2000 as "THE iconic special character since at least the early 90s".