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Obsidorox wrote:
If I had to guess, normal destroyers will stay largely unchanged, and the original heavy destroyer will become a normal destroyer with an optional special weapon. That makes room for the new lokhust destroyer to be the big heavy destroyer without invalidating everyone's existing original small heavy destroyers.

This is what I think will happen.

 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:

Obsidorox wrote:
If I had to guess, normal destroyers will stay largely unchanged, and the original heavy destroyer will become a normal destroyer with an optional special weapon. That makes room for the new lokhust destroyer to be the big heavy destroyer without invalidating everyone's existing original small heavy destroyers.

This is what I think will happen.

I think this would very likely be the case if it wasn't for the fact that the current Heavy Destroyer is a Finecast upgrade kit with a green rod. I see no compelling reason why they would keep it around and not send it to legends.

They seem to still be selling all those kits tho. The things we know are getting replaced have all been pulled already. Based on that, I think a few green rods will hang around a bit longer.

 Latro_ wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
although weirdly the chain fist has a typo says 4 not -4... could mean all of it is unreliable

Given GWs habit of publishing spelling mistakes and typos, this adds to the authenticity as far as I’m concerned

 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
Based on that, I think a few green rods will hang around a bit longer.

Which is maddening.

 xttz wrote:
Looks like Terminators are getting the overhaul treatment too. These assembly instructions have a few tweaks:

Sergeant power sword at +1S

Cyclone missile frag profile changed from 2D3 to 2D6

3 wounds per model!

Spoiler:

So this brings the official list of "weapons that are just 100% better if the trigger is pulled/swung by a loyalist space marine" to

-Chainswords
-Power Swords
-Power Fists
-Storm Shields
-Heavy Bolters
-Multi-Meltas (presumably regular meltas too)
-Heavy Flamers (again, rumor has it flamers too)

Not to bring into the discussion all the 'we added an adjective so we get to make this better' weapons that primaris already have like bolters autocannons heavy stubbers etc.

What are the odds that ANY of this makes it to the rest of the game prior to the long codex slog? My money's on at least another 6 months of space marines feeling like they're playing a completely different edition of the game where you get better weapons, special formation bonuses for going monofaction, customizable subfaction traits where you get to pick the stuff from any chapter you want, and better versions of standard core rules like Gets Hot, Reroll to hit auras, Melta, etc.

the_scotsman wrote:
-Chainswords
-Power Swords
-Power Fists

Why would these not be superior in the hands of someone monumentally stronger than your average human?

the_scotsman wrote:
-Storm Shields
-Heavy Bolters
-Multi-Meltas (presumably regular meltas too)

You could envision these being of a higher quality in the hands of Astartes units (and above).

the_scotsman wrote:
-Heavy Flamers (again, rumor has it flamers too)

What rumours? That they're going to 12"? That appears to be happening to a lot of flamer-type weapons, likely to avoid the stupidity of flamers being unable to fire overwatch at anything over 8" away despite the units they're firing at literally getting closer.

the_scotsman wrote:
My money's on at least another 6 months of space marines feeling like they're playing a completely different edition of the game where you get better weapons, special formation bonuses for going monofaction, customizable subfaction traits where you get to pick the stuff from any chapter you want, and better versions of standard core rules like Gets Hot, Reroll to hit auras, Melta, etc.

You're acting as if other armies won't get changes as well? We know Necrons are up alongside Marines.

Yes other armies get them. Eventually. Maybe sisters have another codex with updated weapons in 2030!

And of course if you are not loyalist marine you are NPC and thus get appropriate treatment. For example necron leaks so far have been decidedly underwhelming.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
-Chainswords
-Power Swords
-Power Fists

Why would these not be superior in the hands of someone monumentally stronger than your average human?

the_scotsman wrote:
-Storm Shields
-Heavy Bolters
-Multi-Meltas (presumably regular meltas too)

You could envision these being of a higher quality in the hands of Astartes units (and above).

the_scotsman wrote:
-Heavy Flamers (again, rumor has it flamers too)

What rumours? That they're going to 12"? That appears to be happening to a lot of flamer-type weapons, likely to avoid the stupidity of flamers being unable to fire overwatch at anything over 8" away despite the units they're firing at literally getting closer.

the_scotsman wrote:
My money's on at least another 6 months of space marines feeling like they're playing a completely different edition of the game where you get better weapons, special formation bonuses for going monofaction, customizable subfaction traits where you get to pick the stuff from any chapter you want, and better versions of standard core rules like Gets Hot, Reroll to hit auras, Melta, etc.

You're acting as if other armies won't get changes as well? We know Necrons are up alongside Marines.

Hey, when you experience one of your factions getting to play for a year and a half where the only free thing you get for showing up is "your warlord gets a 6+ FNP" and your opponent gets chapter traits, custom warlord trait, free relic and your only strat is "reroll 1 die once per phase" you get to know what kind of "balance" to expect from a codex release schedule.

If you play Admech+Space Marines you didn't have to deal with that gak, but it fething sucked to be across the table from people who just took it for granted that they should get to have all that free gak against you. heck, my second game of 9th I was playing an opponent who got to pick custom chapter traits while still getting all the relics, wl traits, strats and gak from the subfaction he wanted, his chapter trait was vastly superior to mine, and still when I said what my trait was he was like "oh, but that's only on infantry right, your vehicles and patriarch doesn't get a 6++" as if that was a cool and perfectly balanced thing.

So yeah, I'm acting like other factions won't get that stuff. I played through 7th with 5 different armies, and at the close of the edition, 1/5 had the "decurion superformation" thing that was the big 'oh everyone will get this eventually just let me play with mine even though you don't get one I'm sure GW will update everyone soon!' of that edition.

Also, it's almost like you could give space marines MORE EXPENSIVE versions of those weapons if they're going to be better. Or, I dunno, maybe base melee weaponry on your core stats, and give space marines better core stats to represent them being better with that weapon. Like an intercessor could have 4A S8 Ap-3 Dd3 hitting on 4s with a power fist while a guard sergeant could have 2A S6 AP-3 Dd3 hitting on 5s. that could be a good way to represent that.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
-Chainswords
-Power Swords
-Power Fists

Why would these not be superior in the hands of someone monumentally stronger than your average human?

Well yeah, but that's why their strength is based on the model's base profile. Marines are S4 rather than S3 to represent that difference. The weapon getting a Strength bonus generally implies something about the weapon contributing to its greater power.

I'm not super worked up about it personally, but it does seem like an odd new direction for melee weapons.

 catbarf wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
-Chainswords
-Power Swords
-Power Fists

Why would these not be superior in the hands of someone monumentally stronger than your average human?

Well yeah, but that's why their strength is based on the model's base profile. Marines are S4 rather than S3 to represent that difference. The weapon getting a Strength bonus generally implies something about the weapon contributing to its greater power.

I'm not super worked up about it personally, but it does seem like an odd new direction for melee weapons.

It's also really bad practice for the same piece of wargear to have multiple versions of rules. Players can't rely on their own memory during games, slowing things down.

I expect this will be changed for everyone eventually; curious if it's going to happen quickly or very slowly.

I would imagine all power swords will become S+1, they aren’t called Astartes powerswords like the chainswords are.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I would imagine all power swords will become S+1, they aren’t called Astartes powerswords like the chainswords are.

If the marine codex drops and GW puts out some kind of FAQ pass going

"All Melta (and fusion) guns are now D6+2 damage while in melta range"

"All Gets Hot effects now go off on a natural roll of 1"

"All Heavy Bolters are now damage 2"

"All Power Swords and equivalent weapons are now S+1"

"All Power Fists and equivalent weapons are now Damage 2"

"All Chainfists and equivalent weapons are now Damage D3"

"All Storm Shields are now +1 to normal Save rolls and a 4++ Invuln Save"

"All Terminators now get +1 wound"

then...let's see...

....Harlequins get an unneeded buff (fusion pistols). Custodes get a kind of side-grade with the storm shields. Heavy Bolters become 100% better autocannons but that only affects a couple of oddball units that choose between those weapons like HWTs and Sentinels, I don't see that creating a new power option for anyone. Howling Banshees get a needed buff. Crusaders get what is probably an overall nerf. Sisters get a big, big buff, probably putting them in the top competitive tier. Guard get an overall buff but are currently kind of underpowered so Flamers/Melta getting better for them is a good thing. Tank commanders with MM and Demolishers might be a little problematic? Maybe? They're pretty pricy for their defensive profile.

GK and DG terminators I can DEFINITELY see being a balance problem. Terminator-equivalents like MANz and Aberrants feel even shittier. Bladeguard ironically are INSTANTLY obsoleted by new sexy terminators.

It's definitely a huge balance splash that will almost certainly result in the "haves" like GK, DG, SM and BA getting even stronger, while the Have-Nots like Drukhari and GSC suffer even more.

Assuming of course GW don't go the route of just...giving SM better stuff and "maybe eveyone gets the new toys when you buy your 40$ codex, maybe, enjoy continuing to pay the same price as SM for your shittier stuff"

2dmg heavy bolters?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
2dmg heavy bolters?

I missed that one too. Would explain their new higher price though.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
2dmg heavy bolters?

Admittedly the most "theorized" of the bunch, but the weapon that the Invictor Warsuit had that was previously a heavy bolter got changed to 1 shot, S5 AP-1, Damage 2.

People are currently extrapolating off of that to assume that Heavy Bolters are changing to be damage 2, but not changing to be 1 shot, and the Invictor will have some kind of "Light Heavy Bolter" or maybe "Heavy Heavy Bolt Pistol" because primaris marines needed their 19th unique bolt weapon.

Thus explaining their new, higher price point.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I would imagine all power swords will become S+1, they aren’t called Astartes powerswords like the chainswords are.

They aren't called anything on the sheet. They could always change it in the unit entry to be a "Terminator Power Sword" in the actual Codex just to screw everyone else.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I would imagine all power swords will become S+1, they aren’t called Astartes powerswords like the chainswords are.

If that's the case then wouldn't this be a buff for some Xenos like Howling Banshees?

mournwhelk wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I would imagine all power swords will become S+1, they aren’t called Astartes powerswords like the chainswords are.

If that's the case then wouldn't this be a buff for some Xenos like Howling Banshees?

Potentially, which would be very welcome.

mournwhelk wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I would imagine all power swords will become S+1, they aren’t called Astartes powerswords like the chainswords are.

If that's the case then wouldn't this be a buff for some Xenos like Howling Banshees?

It definitely would be.

IF they do it like that.

I find that to be a bigger "if" than some people do, evidently. Given that, for example, GW just put out brand new rules for Storm Shields for the new primaris stuff, and chose not to even change the rules for storm shields in the very same codex.

the_scotsman wrote:

mournwhelk wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I would imagine all power swords will become S+1, they aren’t called Astartes powerswords like the chainswords are.

If that's the case then wouldn't this be a buff for some Xenos like Howling Banshees?

It definitely would be.

IF they do it like that.

I find that to be a bigger "if" than some people do, evidently. Given that, for example, GW just put out brand new rules for Storm Shields for the new primaris stuff, and chose not to even change the rules for storm shields in the very same codex.

The codex that's getting released in October?

 xttz wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

mournwhelk wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I would imagine all power swords will become S+1, they aren’t called Astartes powerswords like the chainswords are.

If that's the case then wouldn't this be a buff for some Xenos like Howling Banshees?

It definitely would be.

IF they do it like that.

I find that to be a bigger "if" than some people do, evidently. Given that, for example, GW just put out brand new rules for Storm Shields for the new primaris stuff, and chose not to even change the rules for storm shields in the very same codex.

The codex that's getting released in October?

No sorry, easy mistake to make, the one they came out with like 6 months before quarantine. Not Marines 3.0 upcoming in october. I mean the fully legal space marine codex that had like 6 months of use time that marine players also had to pay twice as much to get as a normal codex because of the supplements.

You can argue the merits of complaining about the treatment space marines are getting but you can't argue it isn't justified. The sheer volume of rules they can stack to inflict damage is insane. I watched a game by tabletop titans it was Ultramarines v necrons.

He had 6 aggressors with fragstorm grenade launchers with an ability allowing them to shoot again if they died. The number of times the necrons killed 1 aggressor but subsequently then lost two or more warriors was insane. On one occasion the necron player lost 6 warriors to kill 2 aggressors. Six warriors, in the necron shooting phase! All because of a combination of the blast rule, re rolling hits and wounds of 1 and the ability to shoot again on a 4+ when they die. Necrons had nothing like it.

 xttz wrote:

 catbarf wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
-Chainswords
-Power Swords
-Power Fists

Why would these not be superior in the hands of someone monumentally stronger than your average human?

Well yeah, but that's why their strength is based on the model's base profile. Marines are S4 rather than S3 to represent that difference. The weapon getting a Strength bonus generally implies something about the weapon contributing to its greater power.

I'm not super worked up about it personally, but it does seem like an odd new direction for melee weapons.

It's also really bad practice for the same piece of wargear to have multiple versions of rules. Players can't rely on their own memory during games, slowing things down.

I expect this will be changed for everyone eventually; curious if it's going to happen quickly or very slowly.

It's been for melta weapons for year so. And usual for gw. As gw said check datasheets. Long live　bespoken rules players demanded rather than universal.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
-Chainswords
-Power Swords
-Power Fists

Why would these not be superior in the hands of someone monumentally stronger than your average human?

Why are they superior in the hand of someone monumentally stronger than your average human but only if this someone is a follower of the Imperium rather than a follower of Chaos???

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
-Chainswords
-Power Swords
-Power Fists

Why would these not be superior in the hands of someone monumentally stronger than your average human?

Why are they superior in the hand of someone monumentally stronger than your average human but only if this someone is a follower of the Imperium rather than a follower of Chaos???

Because Geedubs loves them Space Marines.

Specifically loyal one. If you are loyal space marine you are master faction. If not npc is　your　status

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
-Chainswords
-Power Swords
-Power Fists

Why would these not be superior in the hands of someone monumentally stronger than your average human?

Why are they superior in the hand of someone monumentally stronger than your average human but only if this someone is a follower of the Imperium rather than a follower of Chaos???

Do we even know if Chaos Terminators aren't getting the same changes or are you just trying to meet your whine quota?

 Jack Flask wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
-Chainswords
-Power Swords
-Power Fists

Why would these not be superior in the hands of someone monumentally stronger than your average human?

Why are they superior in the hand of someone monumentally stronger than your average human but only if this someone is a follower of the Imperium rather than a follower of Chaos???

Do we even know if Chaos Terminators aren't getting the same changes or are you just trying to meet your whine quota?

We currently have no evidence that they are getting the same changes. This has some people concerned.

Calling such concern a "whine" isn't helping matters, Jack.

 Jack Flask wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
-Chainswords
-Power Swords
-Power Fists

Why would these not be superior in the hands of someone monumentally stronger than your average human?

Why are they superior in the hand of someone monumentally stronger than your average human but only if this someone is a follower of the Imperium rather than a follower of Chaos???

Do we even know if Chaos Terminators aren't getting the same changes or are you just trying to meet your whine quota?

Do you have any evidence they would get? Same wargear name? How does current chaos meltas work? Meltas got changed in marine codex 2.0. Seen any errataes to change that elsewhere?

Historically GW doesn't alter wargear rules via errata's to match others so even at best case you are looking at changes when new codex comes. So for sisters for example more like 2030.