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Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Such as? Other than situations involving the obvious parody/review/abstract quotation etc fair dealing exceptions it doesn't mention.


"Okay, but other than the fair use exceptions which apply to literally everything they produce and which they make zero mention of in their statement of what is allowed under copyright, what are they saying you cannot make?"

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
 Plant wrote:
For everyone who is joining the boycott, can you please keep it up until I get a copy of the new kill team?


Problem is gamer boycotts usually come down to "company x has done something shifty, im only buying half of what I planned to"


I saw a discussion on another board that basically boils down to everyone planning to boycott GW over this was probably already boycotting GW, which is certainly true for me. However, public shaming of companies, as well as hitting critical mass on YouTube creators revolting, might have a more pronounced effect, maybe. I doubt GW will lose more than a few percentage points of profit n the next year, however if they make some boneheaded decisions in terms of price hikes or TOW’s release, something that affects current customers, then the underlying community discontent from this and other recent events could have a multiplier effect for them as we saw in the Kirby years. Maybe.


oh aye, but are any of the other wargamer propertys anywhere near GWs level of income ? As another dry slap such as the one X-Wing dished out around 2013 knocking them off the top spot might do something

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

oh aye, but are any of the other wargamer propertys anywhere near GWs level of income ? As another dry slap such as the one X-Wing dished out around 2013 knocking them off the top spot might do something


A good question. IIRC Wizkids and FFG are nipping at their heels again, though AoS and 40k have maintained their lead. Wizkids might, actually, overtake them, since it's supposed to be a big year for both Pathfinder and D&D, and between them and GW, they hold four of the top five sales slots for minis.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/31 21:52:53



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





yukishiro1 wrote:
I already gave you three specific examples. Your response was "yeah ok but they wouldn't actually sue over that," which is precisely my point: they would never sue, because their guidelines aren't legally enforceable.

The guidelines wildly overstate GW's IP rights.


You gave examples for a few exceptions to what's stated. There potentially being exceptions to what's said, depending on the situation, is not the same thing as your claim of "none of it is enforceable". It's enforceable, but there are exceptions.

And no, my response was that the guidelines are guidelines. Their own words are asking you to follow them as a "balancing act" between "fans enjoying all things Warhammer" and their "duty to preserve and protect our intellectual property rights" - not a clear-cut "you posted a single line, now we'll sue you" sort of thing like you make it out to be.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Such as? Other than situations involving the obvious parody/review/abstract quotation etc fair dealing exceptions it doesn't mention.


"Okay, but other than the fair use exceptions which apply to literally everything they produce and which they make zero mention of in their statement of what is allowed under copyright, what are they saying you cannot make?"


...Your point is? No one has said there aren't exceptions for fair dealing that should be allowed. His claim is that pretty much none of their guidelines are enforceable, however. There's a difference between a claim of "some of this wouldn't hold up in some situations" (which is the case) and saying "very little of this holds up, it's not legally enforcable regardless of the situation" in general.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/31 22:01:16


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:

oh aye, but are any of the other wargamer propertys anywhere near GWs level of income ? As another dry slap such as the one X-Wing dished out around 2013 knocking them off the top spot might do something


A good question. IIRC Wizkids and FFG are nipping at their heels again, though AoS and 40k have maintained their lead. Wizkids might, actually, overtake them, since it's supposed to be a big year for both Pathfinder and D&D.

Didn't Wizkids overtake AoS already? There was a ICv2 chart that had AoS at 5th place and Wizkids at 2nd.

What I have
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Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





It wouldn't surprize me of D&D minis outsell GW stuff as D&D is a much bigger market. I'm not even sure that's a fair comparison.

That being said ICv2 Charts are not the most accurate as they don't really track online sales and it's just a poll of like 100 game stores to see what they sell.

It's an interesting chart but no way indicative of actual sales for any company. Since they're both public companies (wizkids via Topps) looking at what investor reports say would be a much better method.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:

oh aye, but are any of the other wargamer propertys anywhere near GWs level of income ? As another dry slap such as the one X-Wing dished out around 2013 knocking them off the top spot might do something


A good question. IIRC Wizkids and FFG are nipping at their heels again, though AoS and 40k have maintained their lead. Wizkids might, actually, overtake them, since it's supposed to be a big year for both Pathfinder and D&D.

Didn't Wizkids overtake AoS already? There was a ICv2 chart that had AoS at 5th place and Wizkids at 2nd.


By Wizkids do you mean their dungeons and dragons minis? (which isn't exactly a "Table top war game") heroclix, or "a combination of both"

cause if it's anything but "just heroclix" that's a apples to oranges comparison.


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
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People have been leaving dislikes on the Warhammer Com youtube vids. I'm proud to say I'm dislike 666 on the How to Paint Soulraid video.

Not that this will do much, but it's kinda fun to see how long until GW disables likes/dislikes
   
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

I always find that bit funny.

People whine that GW disables comments, likes/dislikes, etc...but why shouldn't they if this is how the "community" behaves?
   
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Florence, KY

GW makes a Facebook announcement for each video that they post. That's where they want the feedback so their social media team doesn't have to keep track of comments on multiple platforms.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

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Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






I'm disappointed that people just immediately ignored Alfa and went straight to harassing GW employees and posting infantile comments on completely unrelated social media posts about TTS getting put on hiatus. I love watching TTS and it's dumb humour but I'm not going to be a prat because it might never start up again.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Actually making your feelings about it known on all GW's social media posts is precisely what you should do if you actually want to register your disappointment. People shouldn't be abusive, but GW is very aware of its image on social media these days, and that is absolutely the best (i.e. most likely to be effective) way to register your disagreement if you want to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
There potentially being exceptions to what's said, depending on the situation, is not the same thing as your claim of "none of it is enforceable".


That wasn't my claim. You can tell because it isn't what I said. I said what I meant, if you are reduced to misquoting me, it's a pretty good sign that you're having trouble refuting the argument.

Again: those guidelines wildly overstate the extent of GW's IP rights. Pretty much every section of their guidelines contains at least one significant misrepresentation of the law. This is not some big coincidence, GW knows this perfectly well. Their guidelines deliberately go far beyond what is legally enforceable, because the point is to scare people into not doing things that are perfectly legal that GW would prefer they not do, not to educate anyone about what their legal rights actually are.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/31 23:18:11


 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

And no, my response was that the guidelines are guidelines. Their own words are asking you to follow them as a "balancing act" between "fans enjoying all things Warhammer" and their "duty to preserve and protect our intellectual property rights" - not a clear-cut "you posted a single line, now we'll sue you" sort of thing like you make it out to be.


Except that Historically, GW have treated them as this exactly.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

His claim is that pretty much none of their guidelines are enforceable, however.


No, it wasn't. It was that it wildly overstates their rights. I enumerated two more exceptions that made them unenforceable, but you seem to have chosen to ignore that post.


BrianDavion wrote:

By Wizkids do you mean their dungeons and dragons minis? (which isn't exactly a "Table top war game") heroclix, or "a combination of both"

cause if it's anything but "just heroclix" that's a apples to oranges comparison.


Not really, since GW maintains it's a 'minis company', not a 'game company'.


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Didn't Wizkids overtake AoS already? There was a ICv2 chart that had AoS at 5th place and Wizkids at 2nd.


The most recent one is out.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/31 23:20:33



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Shadenuat wrote:
As fans, our whole deal must be demanding more of what we like and protecting it from being taken away. Why all the knee bending, counting others money, and fear of the Law, I don't get it at all. Our job is just to Demand.

Cripes. That sounds as toxic as all hell. :(

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/31 23:57:01


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





yukishiro1 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
There potentially being exceptions to what's said, depending on the situation, is not the same thing as your claim of "none of it is enforceable".


That wasn't my claim. You can tell because it isn't what I said. I said what I meant, if you are reduced to misquoting me, it's a pretty good sign that you're having trouble refuting the argument.


What you said was that you think very little of the guidelines are something that would hold up. Not just suggesting that they're what copyright law already covers but there are exemptions to whats said in certain situations that it doesn't mention, but that they're more than not something that isn't legally enforceable.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/01 00:00:50


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




And that claim is absolutely accurate. The guidelines are riddled with absurd claims that go miles beyond what is legally protected. For example, the bits telling you that you aren't allowed to post stats, and that you aren't allowed to post anything that could harm GW's reputation, are downright laughable. To the point where even calling them an exaggeration of IP protections wouldn't be fair - they're just completely made up out of whole cloth. Nothing in IP law remotely supports them, as GW well knows.

Your position that the guidelines reasonably represent the extent of copyright protection "but just don't mention some exceptions" is not objectively supportable. The guidelines are nowhere near an accurate summary of GW's IP rights, they go far beyond what is actually legally protected. No IP lawyer reviewing those would tell you "yeah, seems like a fair summary of IP law to me" - well, unless they were on GW's payroll.

Moreover, your claim that they are only guidelines and are not supposed to be an actual list of what you really can or can't do is directly contradicted by the guidelines themselves, which state that you should follow them "at all times."

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/01 00:51:55


 
   
Made in jp
Bounding Assault Marine





Stuck in the snow.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Jack Flask wrote:

No the problem is that both a large swath of the community, and even Alfabusa to an extent, are being dishonest. I have yet to see anybody show a incident after this "change" to GW's IP policy (this has always been legally within GW's power and their statement has 0 impact on that) where someone has been forced to take their work down either due to threat or DMCA by GW.


And you won't, not because GW won't do it, but because they'll use Youtube and Patreon as cut outs so they don't have to take the heat.

As far as things being legal, there are plenty of things that it's legal to do that are generally frowned on. Just because something is legal does not mean there should not be repercussions from having done it.


You are pointing to an apple and trying to claim that it's an orange.

Nothing have not removed anything by force. Unless you have an actual related incident you can point to then to claim otherwise is an objective lie.
Them removing the monetization from unlicensed content is not the same thing as removing, restricting, or threatening legal action against individuals creating allowable content under fair use.

Even the GW text that people keep quoting as "scary" is specifically under the section on infringement. If something meets the benchmark of fair use, parody, protected speech, etc then it is already by definition not infringement.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Jack Flask wrote:

Alfabusa is currently collecting 18k a month via his Patreon. That's not fan work at that point, it's a job. He has also outright refused to even try contacting GW about an agreement. The "purity of the content" seemingly has much less to do with this than the money involved.


That's his legal right. Under the law, as stands in the US and UK, his parody is legally protected. He could make a billion dollars a month on it and it would still be protected. The issue is, and you seem to be in utter denial of it, that GW has a long history of not particularly giving a gak what the law actually says, and a long track record of indulging in what might be called 'vexatious litigation'.


Unless you are an IP lawyer who is also knowledgeable about this specific subset of IP law then no, you actually don't know if it's legally protected. Neither do I.
But I at least have the good sense to do a cursory investigation of the matter.

Here's an excerpt from the FAQ of an IP law firm in California about what constitutes parody:

Spoiler:
Fair use of a copyrighted work is the reproduction of a work for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research.
The doctrine of fair use, which limits exclusive rights, was developed through a number of court decisions over the years and has been codified in 17 USC §107 of the copyright law.

When determining whether use of the copyrighted work is indeed fair use, the following factors are to be considered:
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;(2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
[...]
A parody is fair use of a copyrighted work when it is a humorous form of social commentary and literary criticism in which one work imitates another. Although a parody falls under “use of a copyrighted work for the purpose of criticism or comment” as provided under 17 USC §107, the determination of whether the work qualifies as a parody depends on the current case law. There is no steadfast set of factors to be considered. As with all gray areas of law, it is important to consult your Copyright Attorney before you publish a work you believe to be a parody. Famous works are often the subject of parodies because of their mass appeal. Famous is synonymous with wealth, or at least financial backing, so it would not be wise to infringe the rights of someone who has the means to defend their rights through litigation.

The following examples are from real-world cases:

PARODY: Making fun of the famous photograph of a naked pregnant Demi Moore, taken by Annie Leibovitz for Vanity Fair, by placing the superimposed head of Leslie Nielsen on the body of a naked pregnant woman, using the same lighting and body positioning as the famous photograph, was a parody and therefore was ruled as fair use. See Leibovitz v. Paramount Pictures Corp. 137 F.3d 109 (2d Cir. N.Y. 1998).

NOT A PARODY: A book authored in Dr. Seuss style to tell the story of the OJ Murders, “The Cat NOT in The Hat!” by Dr. Juice, was not a parody and therefore ruled as infringement. See Dr. Seuss Enterprises, L.P. v. Penguin books USA, Inc., 109 F.3d 1394 (9th Cir. 1997).


From a layman's perspective TTS swerves all over the lines between what does and doesn't seem to be protected under parody, though I'm not going to pretend to know where it ultimately falls. The sage advice being "consult your attorney" followed by "contact the rights holder", both of which Alfabusa has opted not to do.

And again, the actual point seemingly in contention isn't whether Alfabusa is allowed to create and post his parody, it's whether or not he's allowed to monetize it. Which is not at all what you and a lot of other people are attempting to claim.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Jack Flask wrote:

No, you can watch Tie Fighter right now (as well as a bunch of other Star Wars fan films and animations) because they didn't try to build their fan work into a bootleg 6 figure income salary.


Achem;

https://www.patreon.com/otaking77077


Congratulations! You are the second person to link his Patreon to me, and the second person to look foolish as a result. He made his Patreon almost 2 years after he released that video, and he doesn't even link his Patreon in the description.
Does he probably still get new subs as a result of people seeing that video for the first time? Yeah, I imagine. But it's again an apples to oranges compared to Alfabusa directly funding and marketing himself by selling TTS as basically a product in its own right.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Jack Flask wrote:

[b]I'm not here defending GW out of some misplaced loyalty to an economic entity, but if people want to discuss this honestly then you don't get to cherry pick who gets to be defended and when.


Hold on a sec, I want you all note of this here statement he makes.

 Jack Flask wrote:

This is literally what GW is doing though. The artist who does the graphics for GW's website was scouted from Adepticon. I remember meeting her at the booth she ran and getting a free coloring book. All of the 40k video creators of note have been approached by GW and offered jobs. The only consequence for turning it down being that you lose that source of revenue which under law you shouldn't have anyway.


Unless you legally should. I'm sorry, btw, but don't lecture us about honesty and then proceed to the sort of dishonest argument you just did.


You do realize that the gak you do in the real world matters, right? That things like IP law, copyrights, and trademarks also effect a lot of people that aren't enormous multi-million dollar companies?
I have friends who are active or aspiring artists, authors, and game devs. This stuff actually impacts their livelihoods because it exists specifically to dictate what protections they have under law for their creative works.

The idea that we should push for some sort of cut-throat anarchist tipping economy where all that matters is your popularity because these laws don't personally effect you and you selfishly want to keep watching TTS is just so irritating to have to read.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 00:34:01


 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






well ive been watching their stuff just in case it goes away.

Never really heard of the videos until this blew up.


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
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Seneca Nation of Indians

 Jack Flask wrote:

You are pointing to an apple and trying to claim that it's an orange.

Nothing have not removed anything by force. Unless you have an actual related incident you can point to then to claim otherwise is an objective lie.
Them removing the monetization from unlicensed content is not the same thing as removing, restricting, or threatening legal action against individuals creating allowable content under fair use.


Jack, I've posted the C&D letter that we received before in this very forum. Yes, GW HAVE gone after people practicing 'fair use' in the past. This is 'fact' Jack. Assuming they might have learned from their previous mistakes is, perhaps, a stretch, but one assumes that they'll want to try to minimize the damage the next time in case this backfires.

 Jack Flask wrote:

Even the GW text that people keep quoting as "scary" is specifically under the section on infringement. If something meets the benchmark of fair use, parody, protected speech, etc then it is already by definition not infringement.


Except that we know from previous experience that GW legal does not recognize 'fair use' at all. It's not missing from their policies by mistake or omission.

 Jack Flask wrote:

Unless you are an IP lawyer who is also knowledgeable about this specific subset of IP law then no, you actually don't know if it's legally protected. Neither do I.

But I at least have the good sense to do a cursory investigation of the matter.


I have the good sense to retain the services of one already, not being one myself. This is directly BECAUSE of GW. That's beyond the college courses on it I had to take as part of my degree in computer animation. (one of a pair that are computer related, btw)


 Jack Flask wrote:

You do realize that the gak you do in the real world matters, right? That things like IP law, copyrights, and trademarks also effect a lot of people that aren't enormous multi-million dollar companies?
I have friends who are active or aspiring artists, authors, and game devs. This stuff actually impacts their livelihoods because it exists specifically to dictate what protections they have under law for their creative works.


Having been each of the things you name, at various points, yeah, I am familiar with the idea. But I'm also familiar with the idea of Copyright trolls and companies claiming rights under copyright they don't actually have and simply forcing people to stop exercising their own rights by litigating until they can't fight back anymore. You know, the very thing that copyright law was created to prevent?

I dunno if you realize this, but there are people in this forum who's been on the receiving end of GW Legal's insanity. We've seen this show before, and have a pretty good idea of what happens next.

 Jack Flask wrote:

The idea that we should push for some sort of cut-throat anarchist tipping economy where all that matters is your popularity because these laws don't personally effect you and you selfishly want to keep watching TTS is just so irritating to have to read.


No, what's irritating is that you assume that because people don't agree with what GW is doing, what they want is a decent into anarchy. Copyright laws effect me directly, but I also recognize that if I abuse those rights there will be consequences. Something that seems to be an utterly alien idea to GW, as well as what the limits of those rights are.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/08/01 01:25:30


 
   
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Brighton MA

 Kanluwen wrote:
I always find that bit funny.

People whine that GW disables comments, likes/dislikes, etc...but why shouldn't they if this is how the "community" behaves?


Huh? People like/dislike bomb stuff all the time to make a point. I'm sorry you are easily offended. Don't you find it odd they won't allow comments on their videos?
   
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

Nope. Not with this crowd.
   
Made in us
Armored Iron Breaker





Pointing to the law on IP and saying "it's fine, they followed the law" is no moral argument. The copyright law, at least in the US, was written by Disney, a company that wants to control its IP as much as possible, to the detriment of the community at large. This, then, can be seen as a "might makes right" argument.

It should be dismissed as such.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 01:43:55


Fernys Hjolda!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It's more like pointing to a list of what GW claims is the law but actually isn't, and saying "it's fine, they followed the law." So even less convincing.

P.S. Fair use is a defense to infringement, at least under US law, so that claim that they don't mention fair use because that wouldn't be an infringement at all is not even right on its own technical terms. There's nothing like making a gotcha argument that actually gotchas yourself.
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Kanluwen wrote:
People whine that GW disables comments, likes/dislikes, etc...but why shouldn't they if this is how the "community" behaves?
I knew you'd eventually find a way to blame the players. Tops marks as always, Kan.

But to your point: When they disable comments, likes/dislikes, etc. and thus leave few opportunities to speak back to GW, is it any wonder that they'll find whatever way they can to vent their frustrations.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 02:07:16


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
People whine that GW disables comments, likes/dislikes, etc...but why shouldn't they if this is how the "community" behaves?
I knew you'd eventually find a way to blame the players. Tops marks as always, Kan.

But to your point: When they disable comments, likes/dislikes, etc. and thus leave few opportunities to speak back to GW, is it any wonder that they'll find whatever way they can to vent their frustrations.


except he's got a point, on this thread alone we've had people compare them to rapists, murderers, orginized crime etc.

and this is a forum with less annomity then a youtube comment offers.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

BrianDavion wrote:
except he's got a point...
No he doesn't. At every opportunity Kan will try to state that the root of so many bad things, be it GW's actions or their rules or whatever, are simply the result of fan actions. Their rules aren't bad, it's just the way the players exploit them. GW doesn't ignore feedback, it's just the players are always negative so they have no choice but to block all comments. On and on it goes. Always the same. He thinks that sovereign immunity applies to GW.

BrianDavion wrote:
... on this thread alone we've had people compare them to rapists, murderers, orginized crime etc.

and this is a forum with less annomity then a youtube comment offers.
And a few people making dumb comparisons or hyperbolic analogies do not represent the player base as a whole.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/01 02:30:55


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




BrianDavion wrote:


except he's got a point, on this thread alone we've had people compare them to rapists, murderers, orginized crime etc.


Analogies are not an assertion that the one thing is the same as the other, they are an assertion that there is a common point that can be illustrated through pointing to a different (i.e., not the same - if it was actually the same situation, that wouldn't be an analogy) situation. If I analogize someone being set up to fail at work to being handed a pistol and told to charge a machine gun nest, that doesn't mean I am saying their boss is actually attempting to get them killed.

I sometimes wish there was a mandatory course everyone has to pass before being allowed to post on the internet that explains things like what an analogy is, what a straw man argument is, how to express disagreement without personally attacking someone, etc.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/01 02:34:18


 
   
Made in us
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Annandale, VA

 Jack Flask wrote:
You do realize that the gak you do in the real world matters, right? That things like IP law, copyrights, and trademarks also effect a lot of people that aren't enormous multi-million dollar companies?
I have friends who are active or aspiring artists, authors, and game devs. This stuff actually impacts their livelihoods because it exists specifically to dictate what protections they have under law for their creative works.


Hi, I am a former game dev. If you want to support friends who are active or aspiring artists, authors, or game devs, stop posting pro-corporate apologia on behalf of the company that sued a children's author for using the term 'space marine'.

Your friends are overwhelmingly more likely to be harmed by a larger player making spurious IP claims than by random joes on the Internet using copyrighted material to make fan videos for Youtube. We're not talking about piracy here, we're talking about derivative fan works that don't threaten the copyright holder's market share. This is the kind of fan support that indie devs actively cultivate- it's free advertising and a mutually beneficial relationship with the community. GW's behavior is pretty transparently a carrot-or-stick approach to populating Warhammer+, rather than either a continuation of long-standing policy or a defensive reaction to a credible threat.

BaronIveagh's comments track with my experience with copyright in the US. Corporations claiming ownership over material that fits fair use exemptions is nothing new; they're counting on the target rolling over rather than face legal fees and the ever-present potential of losing even an ostensibly airtight case. Ask your friends if they're more worried about frivolous lawsuits or having fans.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The little guy typically can't afford to sue anybody for copyright infringement in the first place, it's a bit of a phantom protection.

More than with almost any other area of the law, IP is a big game of chicken, where nobody - typically not even the largest corporation - wants to go to court if they can possibly avoid it.

What shapes IP management is not so much what the law actually says - which is a confusing jumble of often mutually contradictory pronouncements that are hard to apply generally and are so fact-specific that you typically don't know the outcome until you actually go to court, something nobody wants to do because it's too expensive and risky - as relative appetites for risk and ability to spend money.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

a big problem here is a very simple one

US law is very different to EU law which is different to UK law, which is different to China, Japan etc.

just because it does not fit into US law does no mean the guidelines go beyond any law

until GW releases guidelines for each country, they have more of a "covers everything everywhere" approach

for example, "work for hire" does not exist in EU copyright law, some countries have exceptions but nothing like the US, no matter who paid me or for which company I work for, I will always own my creations

there is no registration requirement in EU law (its actually forbidden) and no moral rights in US law and there is no general fair use law in EU

GW acts like they do to keep the control of their IP is in some countries the law is much more creator/user friendly and less corporate friendly, hence they don't want people there o get creative


that they are acting against animations on YT because they have not enough content for WH+ i coming along the usual behaviour to control everything

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
 
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