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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Their guidelines are massively inaccurate with regard to any major country's IP laws. Which is fully by design. They know full well that a lot of what they write on that page is laughable from a legal point of view, but they also know that people on the internet don't know that and are prone to believe all sorts of silly corporate-friendly things about what IP law supposed protects. How often do we see someone repeat that completely inaccurate statement about how "well GW has to enforce their IP rights or they'll lose them! they have no choice!" despite it being completely inaccurate and debunked over and over and over?
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

this is standard corporate behavior
every company out there puts trademarks, copyright, patents on everything they make

not matter if this is legal, covered by the law or make any sense at all
and no one cares as long as another company (or customer) wants to act against that

their guidelines being inaccurate against IP law the same way as 90% of any other trademarks, copyright claims and patents out there

but how current laws work is being and the first the main point, not if your claims are legal
because as soon as the claims are there, the others need to invest the money to remove them and this will always cost a lot no matter how clear the case might be

GW claiming everything does not defend them against illegal copies/pirates but against other companies
the creative part of the community are just collateral damage that is replaced soon by new people anyway (the business model is build upon a fast exchange of the community anyway, and not growing them, they don't want people to stay forever but leave after they spend their maximum and make room for new people)

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Sorry it's a long video so I didn't watch it all, but from what I gathered, he hasn't actually been given a C&D or any takedown orders?

So if he wanted, he could just keep going, maybe include a label "this is a parody not intended to infringe on GW's trademarks" and wait for them to order a C&D if that's what they want to do.

It's very unlikely that they'd issue anything that would result in him having to pay damages prior to issuing a C&D letter.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

yes, he shut down in advance because he don't want to take the risk and get a C&D

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

What's interesting is that GW hasn't gone after any of these in financial terms. Ergo they get approached to either work for GW or demonetize, but GW isn't looking to recover any money that they've earned thus far.


A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Sorry it's a long video so I didn't watch it all, but from what I gathered, he hasn't actually been given a C&D or any takedown orders?

So if he wanted, he could just keep going, maybe include a label "this is a parody not intended to infringe on GW's trademarks" and wait for them to order a C&D if that's what they want to do.

It's very unlikely that they'd issue anything that would result in him having to pay damages prior to issuing a C&D letter.


What is odd is that he’s left all his videos up. Not creating any more doesn’t give you a free pass on all your old content, if he was genuinely worried that he’s about to be taken to court he’d take down all old content too. As it is, he’s not reduced his exposure at all. Which makes the entire thing pointless.
   
Made in be
Regular Dakkanaut





MaxT wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Sorry it's a long video so I didn't watch it all, but from what I gathered, he hasn't actually been given a C&D or any takedown orders?

So if he wanted, he could just keep going, maybe include a label "this is a parody not intended to infringe on GW's trademarks" and wait for them to order a C&D if that's what they want to do.

It's very unlikely that they'd issue anything that would result in him having to pay damages prior to issuing a C&D letter.


What is odd is that he’s left all his videos up. Not creating any more doesn’t give you a free pass on all your old content, if he was genuinely worried that he’s about to be taken to court he’d take down all old content too. As it is, he’s not reduced his exposure at all. Which makes the entire thing pointless.


That is not what a C&D is about and it is also not what they are afraid of. If the old videos are demanded to be taken down, then that's just it. They are taken down. They won't get fined and there won't be a lawsuit.

It becomes dangerous if they decide to continue the project. They could risk their entire account to be demonetized, and the chance of a lawsuit is higher. Them branching out to new projects is thereby the best option.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I herby promote that they change to "If Everblight had a Text to Speech Device".


Though it would probably end up "If a Warjack had a Text to Speech Device"


A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Segersgia wrote:
MaxT wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Sorry it's a long video so I didn't watch it all, but from what I gathered, he hasn't actually been given a C&D or any takedown orders?

So if he wanted, he could just keep going, maybe include a label "this is a parody not intended to infringe on GW's trademarks" and wait for them to order a C&D if that's what they want to do.

It's very unlikely that they'd issue anything that would result in him having to pay damages prior to issuing a C&D letter.


What is odd is that he’s left all his videos up. Not creating any more doesn’t give you a free pass on all your old content, if he was genuinely worried that he’s about to be taken to court he’d take down all old content too. As it is, he’s not reduced his exposure at all. Which makes the entire thing pointless.


That is not what a C&D is about and it is also not what they are afraid of. If the old videos are demanded to be taken down, then that's just it. They are taken down. They won't get fined and there won't be a lawsuit.

It becomes dangerous if they decide to continue the project. They could risk their entire account to be demonetized, and the chance of a lawsuit is higher. Them branching out to new projects is thereby the best option.


Do they have there patreon still up from those videos ? I am not familiar enough with them. But there patreon was doing very well I thought.
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





 Overread wrote:
I herby promote that they change to "If Everblight had a Text to Speech Device".


Though it would probably end up "If a Warjack had a Text to Speech Device"



I would rather he waits till PP fold and the rights to Warmahordes is bought by someone else. PP doesn't deserve the renewed interest in their product.


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I'd rather see PP recover than fold.

Having seen it take several years for Warcradle to start recovering Dystopian Wars from Spartan Games folding

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Overread wrote:
I'd rather see PP recover than fold.
Completely agree.

I own maybe less than 20 WarMachine minis (all bought for Dark Mechanicus purposes!), so it's not something that interests me, but there need to be bigger games in the market to compete.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 09:54:35


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





yeah healthy compeition is good for everyone. GW has some serious inertia behind them, given the long history of their game setting, none of their contempories are around to the degree anymore.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 10:08:56


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Overread wrote:
I'd rather see PP recover than fold.

Having seen it take several years for Warcradle to start recovering Dystopian Wars from Spartan Games folding


As a long term PP customer I DESPERATLY want them to get their act together. Sadly, without a huge injection of talent and/or money, probably with some form of buy our or support from a major umbrella company.

That said, in the last 6 months due to pandemic sort of winding down and good marketing of mystery boxes has seen a but uplift in the level of interest and new people just buying mystery boxes and checking WM/H out. So PP has everything lined up to take advantage of the sudden wave of bad feeling towards GW. However I don't see them being able to do so with their now tiny staff team and lack of forward vision. Now would be a great time to launch a Mk4. But Mk3 was launched too quickly and in a half baked format and its take several years to get it "right". A botched Mk4 at this stage would effectively kill the company.
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Overread wrote:
I'd rather see PP recover than fold.
Completely agree.

I own maybe less than 20 WarMachine minis (all bought for Dark Mechanicus purposes!), so it's not something that interests me, but there need to be bigger games in the market to compete.



Most don’t care though. During the period when GW was declining, early 2010s, and other systems started taking out chunks of the market, I do remember seeing more than a few threads on here at least where the OP was disgruntled about the fragmentation in gaming systems. Their lament boiled down to why don’t people stick to 40k as everyone knows that and it’s easier to get a game that way. I don’t want to learn a new game because x,y,z.

At the end of the day, the best course is to not buy from GW if you don’t like things. Not a boycot, just an active decision to say, this isn’t for me and I’ll spend my money and time elsewhere.

I’ve done this with 40k. I don’t like the direction it’s taking, the modern narrative over setting push and the rules, so I don’t play or collect. I do still like Titanicus, heresy and the chaotic morass that is Necromunda. I’ve completely given up on GW fantasy elements such as AoS and the old world reboot because other systems and companies are more appealing to my tastes.
   
Made in us
Guardsman with Flashlight




Morecambe, UK

Things I think everyone should take away from this thread:


  • IP law hasn't changed overnight

  • GW hasn't actually 'done' anything at all

  • Most of the comments in in this thread are a lot of fuss over nothing

  • A little change of wording to policy guidance is not in anyway a sign of a new dystopian future. It is certainly not 'chilling', or a 'threat'.


  • I should add that I agree 100% with Kel's comment about the fanbase. Some of the posts in this thread are really quite disturbing. Unfortunately, they are part of a much bigger problem, not just for GW, but for society as a whole. Of course, the internet is to blame for much of this. Hopefully GW will ride this out, and some of the more extreme posters on here will go and find another 'passion'. It would certainly be better for the hobby.

       
    Made in fi
    Dakka Veteran





    I don't expect anyone to care about my thoughts on the recent events but I am going to give them anyway.

    -I think GW is stupid trying to scare off potential marketing channels. I understand why they are doing it but I don't necessarily agree with it.

    -I think those that use GW IP for personal benefit without permission are stupid if they expect there would no consequences at some point. Legal or not, fair use or not, doesn't really make a difference.

    -I think vocal minority of community is overreacting as usual. If their hobby is constant GW hating, they should consider finding a hobby that gives them enjoyment instead of flooding the social media with negativity to make others feel bad for enjoying the hobby.

    -Majority of community is unaffected by recent events or doesn't care for other reasons.

    -Unrelated to this topic, I think GW should pay more for its workers instead of acting generous by handing out bonuses. Once again understand why they don't, but I do not agree with it.

    That place is the harsh dark future far left with only war left. 
       
    Made in us
    Lord of the Fleet





    Seneca Nation of Indians

     MJRyder wrote:
    Things I think everyone should take away from this thread:


  • IP law hasn't changed overnight

  • GW hasn't actually 'done' anything at all

  • Most of the comments in in this thread are a lot of fuss over nothing

  • A little change of wording to policy guidance is not in anyway a sign of a new dystopian future. It is certainly not 'chilling', or a 'threat'.


  • I should add that I agree 100% with Kel's comment about the fanbase. Some of the posts in this thread are really quite disturbing. Unfortunately, they are part of a much bigger problem, not just for GW, but for society as a whole. Of course, the internet is to blame for much of this. Hopefully GW will ride this out, and some of the more extreme posters on here will go and find another 'passion'. It would certainly be better for the hobby.


    Other than the 'chilling' effects demonstrated already. But who cares about reality as long as GW deigns to give you a new HH box in a few months.

    BTW: I don't know if you know this, but a few of the posters in this thread who you are telling to 'find a new passion' have added in various ways TO the IP you're defending. These aren't a group of possessive fans bitching about how they changed it, now it sucks (which you seem to be implying), but creators who are bitching that GW policy is using our creations to bludgeon fans.

    Without them, you might not have something to be passionate about.

    I have to ask, which we should find more disturbing, criticizing a corporation for practices that, while legal, are questionable, or decrying that we dare think for ourselves and question our corporate overlords wisdom in certain acts. In an era of Phrama-Bro and Lehman Brothers which do you think is actually more damaging to society?


    Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
     
       
    Made in at
    Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





     MJRyder wrote:
    I should add that I agree 100% with Kel's comment about the fanbase. Some of the posts in this thread are really quite disturbing. Unfortunately, they are part of a much bigger problem, not just for GW, but for society as a whole. Of course, the internet is to blame for much of this. Hopefully GW will ride this out, and some of the more extreme posters on here will go and find another 'passion'. It would certainly be better for the hobby.

    The only thing disturbing in this thread and the ones about staff treatment is the amount of people bootlicking for a multi-million pound profit company and the absolute mental gymnastics they'll go through in order to defend their plastic crack dealer.

    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/01 13:26:25


     
       
    Made in us
    Guardsman with Flashlight




    Morecambe, UK

    I have to ask, which we should find more disturbing, criticizing a corporation for practices that, while legal, are questionable, or decrying that we dare think for ourselves and question our corporate overlords wisdom in certain acts. In an era of Phrama-Bro and Lehman Brothers which do you think is actually more damaging to society?


    The problem is, most of you aren't thinking.

    Honestly, if GW makes you all this unhappy, I think maybe it's some you found yourself something new.

       
    Made in gb
    Decrepit Dakkanaut




    UK

    Why is every post against GW a hostile attack and every post in defence bootlicking/shilling? Can't we at least respect that people on both sides have opinions on the subject without trying to dismiss them (from both sides) as simply anti/pro GW and nothing else.

    A Blog in Miniature

    The Swarm Arises

    Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
       
    Made in us
    Guardsman with Flashlight




    Morecambe, UK


    The only thing disturbing in this thread and the ones about staff treatment is the amount of people bootlicking for a multi-million pound profit company and the absolute mental gymnastics they'll go through in order to defend their plastic crack dealer.


    Great, so now apparently it's *me* doing mental gymnastics because I've said something that disagrees with your world view? Classic.

    Instead of baseless ad hominem attacks and straw man arguments, I'd appreciate someone on the 'evil GW' side of this thread to actually spell out, in clear and precise terms (supported by evidence), exactly how GW updating a few words on an IP policy has really brought about the end of the world as we know it.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Overread wrote:
    Why is every post against GW a hostile attack and every post in defence bootlicking/shilling? Can't we at least respect that people on both sides have opinions on the subject without trying to dismiss them (from both sides) as simply anti/pro GW and nothing else.


    Exactly. The world isn't black and white.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 13:46:12


       
    Made in gb
    Lit By the Flames of Prospero






     MJRyder wrote:
    Great, so now apparently it's *me* doing mental gymnastics because I've said something that disagrees with your world view? Classic.

    Instead of baseless ad hominem attacks and straw man arguments, I'd appreciate someone on the 'evil GW' side of this thread to actually spell out, in clear and precise terms (supported by evidence), exactly how GW updating a few words on an IP policy has really brought about the end of the world as we know it.

    Some posters have been quite straightforward with their views.
    For me it goes like this:
    Spoiler:
    1 - GW is copying services like Disney + and HBO Max in an attempt to generate revenue by making their own media content outside of painting/building videos.
    2 - GW has a single piece of media content in their archive, the Ultramarines Movie.
    3 - However, there is lots of unofficial media content that samples GW IP which GW hasn't particularly gone after in the past.
    4 - Astartes gains some fame and the creator, like many before him, starts making some money from a Patreon. Similar creators are doing similar things.
    5 - GW goes to these creators after they announce Warhammer + and does the whole "come work with us or stop using the IP". This is where the first issues begin to arise since GW hasn't done something similar to this in a major way before.
    6 - Some creators agree to work with GW, others do not and that is fine.
    7 - GW updates its IP "guidelines" into a less vague and more forcefully worded document. The idea behind this seems to be an attempt to prevent competition to Warhammer +, although this is speculation.
    8 - Commission Artists begin halting future work related to GW IP. Alfabusa and the TTS team announce that TTS will not be going forward and outline their fears as to why.
    9 - The fears outline by the TTS team are based on how GW is known for its uncontrolled legal hammer, poor communication skills (see SODAZ and Ceri Robson for more), and the fear that despite falling under some countries parody and satire protections that GW would still attempt to tie up the case until the TTS team could no longer afford to defend themselves.

    It could be argued that GW wouldn't act on their new rules but nobody knows for sure, especially considering how corporations tend to be when taking cases to court. IIRC either Apple or Samsung tried to sue other mobile phone companies for using round edges on their designs. GW has in the past made stupid attempts to enforce what the Legal Team views as the companies IP and there is no evidence to suggest this has changed.
    The air of uncertainty is the driving factor behind all of this IMO and I also think that is exactly what GW wants to happen.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 14:04:28


     
       
    Made in us
    Longtime Dakkanaut




     MJRyder wrote:
    I have to ask, which we should find more disturbing, criticizing a corporation for practices that, while legal, are questionable, or decrying that we dare think for ourselves and question our corporate overlords wisdom in certain acts. In an era of Phrama-Bro and Lehman Brothers which do you think is actually more damaging to society?


    The problem is, most of you aren't thinking.

    Honestly, if GW makes you all this unhappy, I think maybe it's some you found yourself something new.


    Posts like this are entirely content-free. They add nothing to the discussion, it's just throwing around personal insults because you're unable or unwilling to actually engage in substantive discussion. They're especially counterproductive when they're made while ignoring pages and pages of actual substantive discussion. All they do is reorient people away from talking about the topic to attacking one another.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 15:02:52


     
       
    Made in us
    Longtime Dakkanaut







    I'm trying to think how the result would have been different if this group had just stated:

    1. GW has put out a policy stating that what we've done is no longer welcome.
    2. We have reason to believe that at least part of GW means it (and could try to enforce it if they wanted to).
    3. As a result, we're going to find something else to do.

    Yeah, there's a whole bunch of inertia and personal investment in the way things used to be, but it's still essentially "GW has said our sort of work isn't welcome, so we're leaving."

    Seems to me that that's a good enough reason.
       
    Made in us
    Nimble Skeleton Charioteer





    I watched the video and it may have already been mentioned here (didn't read the whole thread), but to me it seems as if he is using GW as a scapegoat to take a break.

    I don't blame him, working on the same project for 8 years does lead to creative fatigue and burnout. By placing the blame on GW he avoids pissing of the fanbase and gets to be the good guy / victim and preserves the ability to return in everyone's good graces.

       
    Made in gb
    Lit By the Flames of Prospero






    That would make sense if Alfa hadn't already been taking time off for his family and left the running of social media accounts related to TTS to other members of the team.
    The video was the first thing he has posted on Twitter since April which was very specifically him talking about his new child.
    And just as another point, people who get mad at creators taking breaks for family or mental health are ratbags anyway.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 16:01:28


     
       
    Made in us
    Lord of the Fleet





    Seneca Nation of Indians

     solkan wrote:
    I'm trying to think how the result would have been different if this group had just stated:

    1. GW has put out a policy stating that what we've done is no longer welcome.
    2. We have reason to believe that at least part of GW means it (and could try to enforce it if they wanted to).
    3. As a result, we're going to find something else to do.

    Yeah, there's a whole bunch of inertia and personal investment in the way things used to be, but it's still essentially "GW has said our sort of work isn't welcome, so we're leaving."

    Seems to me that that's a good enough reason.


    I highly doubt the response would have been different at all.
       
    Made in be
    Longtime Dakkanaut





     Jack Flask wrote:


    Alfabusa is currently collecting 18k a month via his Patreon. That's not fan work at that point, it's a job. He has also outright refused to even try contacting GW about an agreement. The "purity of the content" seemingly has much less to do with this than the money involved.


    Yep, that guy will be fine, even without using GW's IP without their permission.

    He can count on his fanbase and the current buzz to still have their support for the time of the hiatus.
       
    Made in gb
    Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





    Cardiff

    Not like GW would have granted a license to a series with homophobic ‘humour’ baked in. Good riddance to it, it was never funny.

     Stormonu wrote:
    For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
     
       
     
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