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GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Neffertech wrote:I'm confused why there is this long list of possible allies for all of the armies except for tyranids (who can't ally with anyone). It feels so arbitrary for to exclude one army for no real reason. Genestealer cults still exist in the fluff don't they? And isn't that just like an imperial guard army with tyranid allies?

Weird that Dark Eldar and Marines can work together but nobody can/will work with the Nids.

Guess they're the big bad villain now, since everybody can team up with an enemy to fight a bigger enemy. Tyranids must be everyone's worst enemy.

Well, how would a human communicate with Nids?

How would Tau communicate with Daemons, their minds barely register in the warp and Andy Hore claimed it was nigh impossible for such things to occur in the 'Dex

You could possibly explain it as Tau mistaking them for an alien race...until the truth comes out. They tried to make peace with the Necrons before they knew what they were.

Absolutionis wrote:
EDIT: Dammit, got ninja'd

Sorry

coyotius wrote:You could possibly explain it as Tau mistaking them for an alien race...until the truth comes out. They tried to make peace with the Necrons before they knew what they were.

When was that?

coyotius wrote:You could possibly explain it as Tau mistaking them for an alien race...until the truth comes out. They tried to make peace with the Necrons before they knew what they were.

What about the Hive Mind controlling the swarm to tell them not to attack a target? therefore leaving Guardsmen unharmed by the swarm, would the Guard still shoot the Nids or attack the enemy harming them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

A Town Called Malus wrote:

coyotius wrote:You could possibly explain it as Tau mistaking them for an alien race...until the truth comes out. They tried to make peace with the Necrons before they knew what they were.

When was that?

In the Dark Eldar book. About Urien

A Town Called Malus wrote:

coyotius wrote:You could possibly explain it as Tau mistaking them for an alien race...until the truth comes out. They tried to make peace with the Necrons before they knew what they were.

When was that?

Wasn't there a story about a Tau welcoming party for an awakening Necron lord that turned horribly wrong?

coyotius wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Neffertech wrote:I'm confused why there is this long list of possible allies for all of the armies except for tyranids (who can't ally with anyone). It feels so arbitrary for to exclude one army for no real reason. Genestealer cults still exist in the fluff don't they? And isn't that just like an imperial guard army with tyranid allies?

Weird that Dark Eldar and Marines can work together but nobody can/will work with the Nids.

Guess they're the big bad villain now, since everybody can team up with an enemy to fight a bigger enemy. Tyranids must be everyone's worst enemy.

Well, how would a human communicate with Nids?

How would Tau communicate with Daemons, their minds barely register in the warp and Andy Hore claimed it was nigh impossible for such things to occur in the 'Dex

You could possibly explain it as Tau mistaking them for an alien race...until the truth comes out. They tried to make peace with the Necrons before they knew what they were.

Daemons don't keep a corporeal presence unless it's part of a summoning or demonic invasion. They can't. A tau/demon combo wouldn't make any sense at all.

ShumaGorath wrote:

coyotius wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Neffertech wrote:I'm confused why there is this long list of possible allies for all of the armies except for tyranids (who can't ally with anyone). It feels so arbitrary for to exclude one army for no real reason. Genestealer cults still exist in the fluff don't they? And isn't that just like an imperial guard army with tyranid allies?

Weird that Dark Eldar and Marines can work together but nobody can/will work with the Nids.

Guess they're the big bad villain now, since everybody can team up with an enemy to fight a bigger enemy. Tyranids must be everyone's worst enemy.

Well, how would a human communicate with Nids?

How would Tau communicate with Daemons, their minds barely register in the warp and Andy Hore claimed it was nigh impossible for such things to occur in the 'Dex

You could possibly explain it as Tau mistaking them for an alien race...until the truth comes out. They tried to make peace with the Necrons before they knew what they were.

Daemons don't keep a corporeal presence unless it's part of a summoning or demonic invasion. They can't. A tau/demon combo wouldn't make any sense at all.

Who says the demons haven't already infested some gue'vesa?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No saying I like it...just trying to help the thought process.

coyotius wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

coyotius wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Neffertech wrote:I'm confused why there is this long list of possible allies for all of the armies except for tyranids (who can't ally with anyone). It feels so arbitrary for to exclude one army for no real reason. Genestealer cults still exist in the fluff don't they? And isn't that just like an imperial guard army with tyranid allies?

Weird that Dark Eldar and Marines can work together but nobody can/will work with the Nids.

Guess they're the big bad villain now, since everybody can team up with an enemy to fight a bigger enemy. Tyranids must be everyone's worst enemy.

Well, how would a human communicate with Nids?

How would Tau communicate with Daemons, their minds barely register in the warp and Andy Hore claimed it was nigh impossible for such things to occur in the 'Dex

You could possibly explain it as Tau mistaking them for an alien race...until the truth comes out. They tried to make peace with the Necrons before they knew what they were.

Daemons don't keep a corporeal presence unless it's part of a summoning or demonic invasion. They can't. A tau/demon combo wouldn't make any sense at all.

Who says the demons haven't already infested some gue'vesa?

Of Course, because we all know Farsight is a Daemon...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

coyotius wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

coyotius wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Neffertech wrote:I'm confused why there is this long list of possible allies for all of the armies except for tyranids (who can't ally with anyone). It feels so arbitrary for to exclude one army for no real reason. Genestealer cults still exist in the fluff don't they? And isn't that just like an imperial guard army with tyranid allies?

Weird that Dark Eldar and Marines can work together but nobody can/will work with the Nids.

Guess they're the big bad villain now, since everybody can team up with an enemy to fight a bigger enemy. Tyranids must be everyone's worst enemy.

Well, how would a human communicate with Nids?

How would Tau communicate with Daemons, their minds barely register in the warp and Andy Hore claimed it was nigh impossible for such things to occur in the 'Dex

You could possibly explain it as Tau mistaking them for an alien race...until the truth comes out. They tried to make peace with the Necrons before they knew what they were.

Daemons don't keep a corporeal presence unless it's part of a summoning or demonic invasion. They can't. A tau/demon combo wouldn't make any sense at all.

Who says the demons haven't already infested some gue'vesa?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No saying I like it...just trying to help the thought process.

But the same process could be held to come to a conclusion for Nids allying, the Hive mind could gain control on some guys, or what i said earlier could happen.

I really wish the double FoC was at 2001 and not 2000. Would make competitive events much easier to set up. (Less *notes and all)

In the Grim Darkness of the 41st Millennium, There is Only War. And friends. Friends for everyone. Except nids. Nids smell bad.

@GoDz BuZzSaW: Pretty much...genestealer cult => accidentally alliance with 'nids. Which opens up other imperials allying with 'nids too.

coyotius wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:

coyotius wrote:You could possibly explain it as Tau mistaking them for an alien race...until the truth comes out. They tried to make peace with the Necrons before they knew what they were.

When was that?

Wasn't there a story about a Tau welcoming party for an awakening Necron lord that turned horribly wrong?

Hive Fleet Gorgon descended upon a Tau colony named Ka'mais. Fighting erupts between the nids and Necrons when they suddenly emerge from the Dead moon above the colony. The Tau celebrated their heroes saving them from the nids. Little did they know the Harvest of Ka'mais was beginning.

-Tyranid 5th Ed. Pg.21

matphat wrote:Is anyone bothered by the fact that Allies are made available to an army based purely on the fluff, and that using the fluff as a basis for who can ally with who completely ignores the idea of game balance?
There is no way that the allies rules are balanced, and I dare say no way to balance the ally rules based on the fluff.
Example?
Look how many "brothers" various Sm chapters get, and then look at how say, Orks have none, and of course Tyranids actually have NO allies.
No one is bothered by this?

Proving it's not in fact made available based purely on fluff.

Else Tyranids would have IG, Eldar, Tau and Orks as possible allies for Genestealer Cults.

Heck, it wouldn't be far fetched to have Dark Eldar (taking advantage of a Tyranid invasion to pillage/plunder etc) or even Inquisition armies (pretty sure there's been been cases of Inquisitors having questionable pets).

Ah well.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

coyotius wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Daemons don't keep a corporeal presence unless it's part of a summoning or demonic invasion. They can't. A tau/demon combo wouldn't make any sense at all.

Who says the demons haven't already infested some gue'vesa?

Ofcourse, because we all know Farsight is a Daemon...

Farsight isn't gue'vesa

Glorioski wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

coyotius wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Daemons don't keep a corporeal presence unless it's part of a summoning or demonic invasion. They can't. A tau/demon combo wouldn't make any sense at all.

Who says the demons haven't already infested some gue'vesa?

Ofcourse, because we all know Farsight is a Daemon...

Farsight isn't gue'vesa

My Sarcasm level must be too high if you didn't notice it...

The number of useless posts about allies I have to skip over when reading this thread (in order to find actual information) is absurd.

Joe Mama wrote:The number of useless posts about allies I have to skip over when reading this thread (in order to find actual information) is absurd.

Most of the important stuff is summarized in the first post.

This is a discussion forum. People discuss things here.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Glorioski wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

coyotius wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Daemons don't keep a corporeal presence unless it's part of a summoning or demonic invasion. They can't. A tau/demon combo wouldn't make any sense at all.

Who says the demons haven't already infested some gue'vesa?

Ofcourse, because we all know Farsight is a Daemon...

Farsight isn't gue'vesa

My Sarcasm level must be too high if you didn't notice it...

I noticed it. It's just the sarcasm level you are on is the one where the sarcasm makes no sense.

kronk wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:The number of useless posts about allies I have to skip over when reading this thread (in order to find actual information) is absurd.

Most of the important stuff is summarized in the first post.

This is a discussion forum. People discuss things here.

Thanks for Discussing that with us.

Therion wrote:

Also, the Daemon codex explicitly states that any ALLIED units with 6" get the re-roll

Codex: Chaos Daemons page 49: "Because of the incredible prescience of the Oracle of Tzeentch, Fateweaver and all friendly units within 6" may re-roll all failed Armour, Invulnerable and Cover saves. However, for every unsaved wound suffered by Fateweaver, take a Ld test. If the test is failed, he retreats in shock and is removed as a casualty"

Where does it explicitly say 'ALLIED' again?

If you look at my post again, you'll note that it now says FRIENDLY. I edited that post about three minutes before yours, probably while you were furiously searching your Daemons codex so that you could prove me wrong.

I dunnoo... might give wacky fluff combos :

Salamanders + 'space wolves - mutated dragon blade dues for the blood claws, lizards as fenrisian wolves and marines on giant lizards as TWC!

IG+Iron Warriors - basically MOAR GUNZ. Good theme! IG with leman russes + 2 basilisks + obliterators = GUNS LOTS OF GUNS! Use IW as shock troops

Salamanders + Sisters of battle ... BURNINATION... hestan lets them TL their guns?

I am definitely going to make an IG/ CSM(only thousand sons) army, and it is going to rule, if i cant use characters i will use arhimans model and say he is a sorceror lord. it will be legendary, plus i dont think people will accuse me of being WAAC if i use only thousand sons allies

No allies for nidz? It's because the Tyranid codex is so game breakingly powerful that they do not *need* allies.

Obviously.

/sarc

I find it pretty funny that the main gripe about 5th edition was codex creep. GW did a pretty good job in my opinion of remedying that problem with the inclusion of allies. Now all people wanna do is complain about allies.

Go figure

Neffertech wrote:I'm confused why there is this long list of possible allies for all of the armies except for tyranids (who can't ally with anyone). It feels so arbitrary for to exclude one army for no real reason. Genestealer cults still exist in the fluff don't they? And isn't that just like an imperial guard army with tyranid allies?

Weird that Dark Eldar and Marines can work together but nobody can/will work with the Nids.

Guess they're the big bad villain now, since everybody can team up with an enemy to fight a bigger enemy. Tyranids must be everyone's worst enemy.

Clearly Vanilla Marines should beable to get Tyranids as Allies, since Tigirius can talk/read the mind of the Hive Mind! And we all know Ultramarines would totally ally with the Tyranids.

Oh man, adding a detachment of sacrifice-bunt anti-tank Tau to my orks is going to be histerical.

1 deep strike Helios commander

1 deep strike Helios 'ui

12 firewarriors to support boyz blobs with cover fire

2 broadsides, 1 with lock and 1 with target array and a couple drones with a knife

Who says orks don't have much AP1?

Joe Mama wrote:The number of useless posts I have to skip over when reading this thread (in order to find actual information) is absurd.

Edited for accuracy.

undertow wrote:

Therion wrote:

Also, the Daemon codex explicitly states that any ALLIED units with 6" get the re-roll

Codex: Chaos Daemons page 49: "Because of the incredible prescience of the Oracle of Tzeentch, Fateweaver and all friendly units within 6" may re-roll all failed Armour, Invulnerable and Cover saves. However, for every unsaved wound suffered by Fateweaver, take a Ld test. If the test is failed, he retreats in shock and is removed as a casualty"

Where does it explicitly say 'ALLIED' again?

If you look at my post again, you'll note that it now says FRIENDLY. I edited that post about three minutes before yours, probably while you were furiously searching your Daemons codex so that you could prove me wrong.

I apologise that it took me three minutes to write down the exact quote so I wouldn't make any mistakes. However, if you scroll up, you'll notice that 4 minutes before you posted at all I had already said that of course it works because it says friendly units, which makes your entire reply pointless repetition which even was incorrect before you managed to edit it.

Drunkspleen wrote:
Yeah great, so Wyches can kill tanks now, big freaking deal, what they can't do is the thing they were designed to, which is be durable tarpit units, on account of, whenever you charge them at anything you have to expose them to a round of shooitng, shooting against which they don't have the durability they have in melee, meanwhile they have lost speed in comparison to other units since they can no longer run then assault, and pending the AP value on an Agonizer, potentially will hit softer than a wet noodle against many of the enemies they were meant to slowly be dragging down.

Most of this is a symptom not of Dark Eldar problems but of the wider problem which is why on earth did they see fit to hit melee with a sledgehammer, and render the idea of a close combat specialist all but pointless.

Fragile melee units that relied on a large threat range thanks to their fast vehicles to get them into melee untouched suffer particularly from the new rules.

I'm definitely worried about my melee units, but I'm not sure it's as doom and gloom as some folks think. I don't think it is clear exactly what open topped does yet, and for fleet units re-rolling 2d6 to charge is quite good - more reliable than run + charge, and strictly better than fleeting and attacking into cover. 10 Space Marines firing rapid fire bolters at bs1 into oncoming assault units will get about 2 hits on average (not wound, hit).

Transports are nerfed here, and units that rely on transports with them - but how major a nerf it's remains to be seen. The change to fleet mainly hurts assault units in making it much easier for them to be assaulted first - its harder to control ranges when everyone has the potential to move as fast as you. Snap fire barely factors in as a worry for me, apart from assaulting big ork/guard blobs.

We're still months out from really understanding how all the changes come together - we still haven't even seen the book.

Therion wrote:

undertow wrote:

Therion wrote:

Also, the Daemon codex explicitly states that any ALLIED units with 6" get the re-roll

Codex: Chaos Daemons page 49: "Because of the incredible prescience of the Oracle of Tzeentch, Fateweaver and all friendly units within 6" may re-roll all failed Armour, Invulnerable and Cover saves. However, for every unsaved wound suffered by Fateweaver, take a Ld test. If the test is failed, he retreats in shock and is removed as a casualty"

Where does it explicitly say 'ALLIED' again?

If you look at my post again, you'll note that it now says FRIENDLY. I edited that post about three minutes before yours, probably while you were furiously searching your Daemons codex so that you could prove me wrong.

I apologise that it took me three minutes to write down the exact quote so I wouldn't make any mistakes. However, if you scroll up, you'll notice that 4 minutes before you posted at all I had already said that of course it works because it says friendly units, which makes your entire reply pointless repetition which even was incorrect before you managed to edit it.

Theron ZINGING everybody as he's the Baus.