Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Bongfu wrote:
Powerfist are - AP2

Wait, this was mentioned earlier but does powerfist no longer double strength/Init 1?

Bongfu wrote:
Grenades can be thrown! Only one guy per squad. Frag are Str3, Krak Str6, Plasma Str6.

Should've said this earlier. It should've been 1 grenade per 5 models

Bongfu wrote:
Can be repaired, a Techmarine can repair d3 hull points a turn.

Is this alongside or a replacement for repairing vehicle damages?
is it a choice?

Bongfu wrote:
Random Game Length is gone!!!

... how long is it then? depends on the mission?

Bongfu wrote:
Snipers - No Rending. On a 6 you pick the target.

I can understand with picking the target, but its a shame that models like Ratlings and Deathmarks are weakened because of this.

Bongfu wrote:
Str can now go above 10.

Seriously? Can someone please confirm this?
The Carnifex has been neglected so much, that if this is true it could possibly instant Toughness 6+/instant penetrate armour 14s with it's new "smash" ability.
Maybe they can be used again...

Seriously? Can someone please confirm this?
The Carnifex has been neglected so much, that if this is true it could possibly instant Toughness 6+/instant penetrate armour 14s with it's new "smash" ability.
Maybe they can be used again...

Their ability to kill vehicles wasn't what was keeping them off the field before.

Blackgaze wrote:

Bongfu wrote:
Snipers - No Rending. On a 6 you pick the target.

I can understand with picking the target, but its a shame that models like Ratlings and Deathmarks are weakened because of this.

Yeah it pretty much makes most snipers worse off than they were before if there isn't anything else to it.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Therion wrote:

undertow wrote:

Therion wrote:

Also, the Daemon codex explicitly states that any ALLIED units with 6" get the re-roll

Codex: Chaos Daemons page 49: "Because of the incredible prescience of the Oracle of Tzeentch, Fateweaver and all friendly units within 6" may re-roll all failed Armour, Invulnerable and Cover saves. However, for every unsaved wound suffered by Fateweaver, take a Ld test. If the test is failed, he retreats in shock and is removed as a casualty"

Where does it explicitly say 'ALLIED' again?

If you look at my post again, you'll note that it now says FRIENDLY. I edited that post about three minutes before yours, probably while you were furiously searching your Daemons codex so that you could prove me wrong.

I apologise that it took me three minutes to write down the exact quote so I wouldn't make any mistakes. However, if you scroll up, you'll notice that 4 minutes before you posted at all I had already said that of course it works because it says friendly units, which makes your entire reply pointless repetition which even was incorrect before you managed to edit it.

Theron ZINGING everybody as he's the Baus.

I'll consider myself zinged.

People are posting way too fast to this thread BTW.

So if I'm reading everything correctly, allies and the second FoC are only available at 2000+ points? My group normally plays 1850, so if that's correct we don't have to worry about allies.

undertow wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Therion wrote:

undertow wrote:

Therion wrote:

Also, the Daemon codex explicitly states that any ALLIED units with 6" get the re-roll

Codex: Chaos Daemons page 49: "Because of the incredible prescience of the Oracle of Tzeentch, Fateweaver and all friendly units within 6" may re-roll all failed Armour, Invulnerable and Cover saves. However, for every unsaved wound suffered by Fateweaver, take a Ld test. If the test is failed, he retreats in shock and is removed as a casualty"

Where does it explicitly say 'ALLIED' again?

If you look at my post again, you'll note that it now says FRIENDLY. I edited that post about three minutes before yours, probably while you were furiously searching your Daemons codex so that you could prove me wrong.

I apologise that it took me three minutes to write down the exact quote so I wouldn't make any mistakes. However, if you scroll up, you'll notice that 4 minutes before you posted at all I had already said that of course it works because it says friendly units, which makes your entire reply pointless repetition which even was incorrect before you managed to edit it.

Theron ZINGING everybody as he's the Baus.

I'll consider myself zinged.

People are posting way too fast to this thread BTW.

IKR, i'll wake up tomorrow morning and i'll be at least 3 pages behind

Crazyterran wrote:

Neffertech wrote:I'm confused why there is this long list of possible allies for all of the armies except for tyranids (who can't ally with anyone). It feels so arbitrary for to exclude one army for no real reason. Genestealer cults still exist in the fluff don't they? And isn't that just like an imperial guard army with tyranid allies?

Weird that Dark Eldar and Marines can work together but nobody can/will work with the Nids.

Guess they're the big bad villain now, since everybody can team up with an enemy to fight a bigger enemy. Tyranids must be everyone's worst enemy.

Clearly Vanilla Marines should beable to get Tyranids as Allies, since Tigirius can talk/read the mind of the Hive Mind! And we all know Ultramarines would totally ally with the Tyranids.

lol.

I enjoy the idea of allies, it does play into the fluff a lot more. Genestealer cults are an issue, but they're more an Inquisitor or Necromunda issue.. not really a 40k deal imo, so Nids not being able to ally with anyone makes sense...although Chaos is the big bad as represent by the fact they have as nearly a large a range of allies as anyone. The impreium have GK's, chaos have daemons. Loyalist's get guard and marines, so does chaos. yadda..yadda... (obviously their list of potential allies is not the foundation for my entire reasoning there, i'm more just trying to illustrate how the allies seem to represent a whole Chaos vs Imperium with the xenos in the middle and the Tyranids coming up from beneath situation).

Maelstrom808 wrote:

Blackgaze wrote:

Bongfu wrote:
Snipers - No Rending. On a 6 you pick the target.

I can understand with picking the target, but its a shame that models like Ratlings and Deathmarks are weakened because of this.

Yeah it pretty much makes most snipers worse off than they were before if there isn't anything else to it.

They're better against any non MEQ squad and likely better against most MEQ as well. I'd rather snipe out the lord or cryptek from a squad then kill one or two extra warriors. I'd much rather kill off an ork nob (~60 points) then kill 3 boyz (~18 points). Hell, depending on results it's actually more cost efficient against many MEQ squads as well. 3 sixes equates to good odds of killing a marine sergeant, and since most are fist+combi and that's generally ~51 points vs ~45-48 for 3 marines it's actually a nice trade. Doubly so when you consider that the sarge is usually doubling the combat output of the squad he's in.

It just means you need to be a bit choosier with the sniper squads. They have the chance to excel well beyond what they had before now, but they aren't there to mow down terminators.

It'd be good to see Nids ally with Guard and vice versa, just to allow for Genestealer Cults.

Ian Sturrock wrote:It'd be good to see Nids ally with Guard and vice versa, just to allow for Genestealer Cults.

Hopefully codexes from now on will have special sections that override the rulebook and state what can be allied where. It makes sense to have guard based genestealer cults, but the moment a carnifex gets in there it stops making sense. Most combos would require some soft restrictions, dark eldar with eldar only makes sense with an eldar corsair army and those don't feature farseers. Khornate daemons shouldn't join slaneshi chaos marines, etc. Sisters and black templars shouldn't be able to ally with any xenos force, let alone ones that feature psykers.

jmurph wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:The number of useless posts I have to skip over when reading this thread (in order to find actual information) is absurd.

Edited for accuracy.

Heh.

Does anyone else think that the Phaeron upgrade is a 100% waste with the new rules?

As far as I got it, it simply allows you to assault after shooting...and who of us exactly planned to assault ANYTHING with Warriors or Immortals?

Also: really? No rending on snipers? Well, there's enough room on the shelf!

I just wish my IG would be battle brothers with CSMs,

Blackgaze wrote:

Bongfu wrote:
Snipers - No Rending. On a 6 you pick the target.

I can understand with picking the target, but its a shame that models like Ratlings and Deathmarks are weakened because of this.

Oh how I hope this is true. Eldar Pathfinders will suddenly become FANTASTIC with the ability to tag any model in a unit with multiple AP1 hits.

StoneRaizer wrote:So if I'm reading everything correctly, allies and the second FoC are only available at 2000+ points? My group normally plays 1850, so if that's correct we don't have to worry about allies.

The rumors point to no. Allies are available in games of all point levels. At 2000 points, the amount of stuff you can take doubles.

StoneRaizer wrote:So if I'm reading everything correctly, allies and the second FoC are only available at 2000+ points? My group normally plays 1850, so if that's correct we don't have to worry about allies.

Allies always available, second FoC at 2000pts:
see this for a lil extra clarification:

Sigvatr wrote:Does anyone else think that the Phaeron upgrade is a 100% waste with the new rules?

As far as I got it, it simply allows you to assault after shooting...and who of us exactly planned to assault ANYTHING with Warriors or Immortals?

Also: really? No rending on snipers? Well, there's enough room on the shelf!

Man your necrons sure got nerfed hard, I'm so sorry that exactly one thing in your codex (which is an upgrade no less) isn't as useful now.

Let me get out my violin for ya

When do you usually get a mail order delivered to your home on these type of releases? I thought I remembered getting my 5th stuff on the Friday or maybe even Thursday of release week. Anyone remember that too or am I just having wishful thinking delusions?

Mohoc wrote:I just wish my IG would be battle brothers with CSMs,

QFT

BladeWalker wrote:When do you usually get a mail order delivered to your home on these type of releases? I thought I remembered getting my 5th stuff on the Friday or maybe even Thursday of release week. Anyone remember that too or am I just having wishful thinking delusions?

Depends on whom you ordered from. If you ordered from a 3rd party company, you have to wait until they get it then process and ship to you. If you order from GW directly, you have to wait for them to ship to you. They will probably start shipping on this Saturday, were I to guess.

Next Wednesday is a government holiday, so you won't get mail that day.

Sigvatr wrote:Does anyone else think that the Phaeron upgrade is a 100% waste with the new rules?

As far as I got it, it simply allows you to assault after shooting...and who of us exactly planned to assault ANYTHING with Warriors or Immortals?

Also: really? No rending on snipers? Well, there's enough room on the shelf!

If it makes you feel better, the Ork's army defining "WAAAGH!" rule is now basically crap.

My hope regarding the 2,000 points = 2 FoC rumor personally, is that it requires the investment of 2k points before the next chart is opened, instead of being unlocked at a game set for a 2k cap

i.e. once you have bought 2k points of models for the list, you can then buy more in expanded slots.

haven't seen any confirmation in either direction on how this works

Hollowman wrote:I'm definitely worried about my melee units, but I'm not sure it's as doom and gloom as some folks think. I don't think it is clear exactly what open topped does yet, and for fleet units re-rolling 2d6 to charge is quite good - more reliable than run + charge, and strictly better than fleeting and attacking into cover. 10 Space Marines firing rapid fire bolters at bs1 into oncoming assault units will get about 1 hit on average (not wound, hit).

Open-topped lets you assault after disembarking from a transport. However, you cannot disembark at all if you move over 6". Being able to move 6" after disembarking is supposed to fix this, but conveniently leaves out the 3" deployment you get in fifth. How is 2D6 with reroll more reliable than 6+1D6? Supposedly attacking into cover is 3D6, remove the highest. Even with reroll that is not more reliable. Ten SM firing bolters at BS1 will get about 3-4 hits and these are free out of sequence damage. I'm getting punished for assaulting you in my turn with my assault unit. And those marines can still hit normally in assault after.

Hollowman wrote:Transports are nerfed here, and units that rely on transports with them - but how major a nerf it's remains to be seen. The change to fleet mainly hurts assault units in making it much easier for them to be assaulted first - its harder to control ranges when everyone has the potential to move as fast as you. Snap fire barely factors in as a worry for me, apart from assaulting big ork/guard blobs.

Fleet (and essentially the speed of the Eldar race) is useless when everyone potentially moves as fast as you. This situation has worsened with every edition of 40k since third. Movement is hardly an issue anymore, when any army in the game can be at any point of the table within a turn. However, it directly affects the armies that rely on that very same speed. Snap or defensive fire hardly has any effect on MEQ armies, but they hit Eldar and Dark Eldar just that much harder.

We're still months out from really understanding how all the changes come together - we still haven't even seen the book.

Agreed. However, the information we have received so far doesn't look that promising.

ShumaGorath wrote:Hopefully codexes from now on will have special sections that override the rulebook and state what can be allied where.

I've had the same thought. If it's okay to mix books again, there's no reason why Codexes couldn't expand on it.

kronk wrote:

BladeWalker wrote:When do you usually get a mail order delivered to your home on these type of releases? I thought I remembered getting my 5th stuff on the Friday or maybe even Thursday of release week. Anyone remember that too or am I just having wishful thinking delusions?

Depends on whom you ordered from. If you ordered from a 3rd party company, you have to wait until they get it then process and ship to you. If you order from GW directly, you have to wait for them to ship to you. They will probably start shipping on this Saturday, were I to guess.

Next Wednesday is a government holiday, so you won't get mail that day.

Mail ordered straight from GW, hopefully they ship those when they ship the orders to the stores in time for release day.

streamdragon wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:Does anyone else think that the Phaeron upgrade is a 100% waste with the new rules?

As far as I got it, it simply allows you to assault after shooting...and who of us exactly planned to assault ANYTHING with Warriors or Immortals?

Also: really? No rending on snipers? Well, there's enough room on the shelf!

If it makes you feel better, the Ork's army defining "WAAAGH!" rule is now basically crap.

My Pyrovore is still crap. The more things change, the more they stay the same!

Does anyone know if units inside transports get to snapfire at units assaulting their transport?

@Bladewalker - well with 5th you probably did get it slightly early, as that was the norm back then on pre-orders.

Sadly since they changed to the White Dwarf one week till release method, they send things to get to you for the Monday, while those who preorder last minute, don't even get it sent from the warehouse until the monday.

I suppose there is a slim chance it might turn up on the Saturday, but I have a feeling they send via ups with a specific deliver day.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:@Bladewalker - well with 5th you probably did get it slightly early, as that was the norm back them on pre-orders.

Sadly since they changed to the White Dwarf one week till release method, they send things to get to you for the Monday, while those who preorder last minute, don't even get it sent to the monday after.

I suppose there is a slim chance it might turn up on the Saturday, but I have a feeling they send via ups with a specific deliver day.

That is because they want you to go to your FLGS to buy your copy.

solles wrote:My hope regarding the 2,000 points = 2 FoC rumor personally, is that it requires the investment of 2k points before the next chart is opened, instead of being unlocked at a game set for a 2k cap

i.e. once you have bought 2k points of models for the list, you can then buy more in expanded slots.

haven't seen any confirmation in either direction on how this works

From the chart that was posted a few posts before, it looks like 2k requires 2 HQ and 4 troops. No option or opting out. I dont know if I like this or not. Ill have to see how it plays out.