Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
If you are looking for fusions, honestly a ghostkeel or a coldstar commander is better. With a Ghostkeel you can have d3+2 fusion shots, forward deployment and -2 to be hit. With the coldstar commander you have 4 fusion shots and 40" move before you unload.

Stealths on the other side have the awkward rule of one fusion in 3 models, which means that you pay a lot of points for that one fusion shot.

Also, I find that a single piranha is basically the same shootout in the same slots (fast) as the stealth teams, but will actually be better than three stealth suits. It has the same shooting and trades survivability (-1 to hit) for mobility (increased movement). However, its shooting does not degrade (but you will lose burst cannon shots for every stealth suit you lose) and it's a little cheaper to boot. Finally it can split into two units and go capture multiple objectives at will.

Overall I am meh about the stealth suits. Even if they look damn beautiful.

Stealth Suits are an elite choice, not fast attack.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
If you are looking for fusions, honestly a ghostkeel or a coldstar commander is better. With a Ghostkeel you can have d3+2 fusion shots, forward deployment and -2 to be hit. With the coldstar commander you have 4 fusion shots and 40" move before you unload.

Stealths on the other side have the awkward rule of one fusion in 3 models, which means that you pay a lot of points for that one fusion shot.

Also, I find that a single piranha is basically the same shootout in the same slots (fast) as the stealth teams, but will actually be better than three stealth suits. It has the same shooting and trades survivability (-1 to hit) for mobility (increased movement). However, its shooting does not degrade (but you will lose burst cannon shots for every stealth suit you lose) and it's a little cheaper to boot. Finally it can split into two units and go capture multiple objectives at will.

Overall I am meh about the stealth suits. Even if they look damn beautiful.

Stealth Suits are an elite choice, not fast attack.

:O

Well hello there my brigade formation (I hate bringing more than one riptide and I was waiting for a way to not have to bring suits.)

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
If you are looking for fusions, honestly a ghostkeel or a coldstar commander is better. With a Ghostkeel you can have d3+2 fusion shots, forward deployment and -2 to be hit. With the coldstar commander you have 4 fusion shots and 40" move before you unload.

Stealths on the other side have the awkward rule of one fusion in 3 models, which means that you pay a lot of points for that one fusion shot.

Also, I find that a single piranha is basically the same shootout in the same slots (fast) as the stealth teams, but will actually be better than three stealth suits. It has the same shooting and trades survivability (-1 to hit) for mobility (increased movement). However, its shooting does not degrade (but you will lose burst cannon shots for every stealth suit you lose) and it's a little cheaper to boot. Finally it can split into two units and go capture multiple objectives at will.

Overall I am meh about the stealth suits. Even if they look damn beautiful.

Stealth Suits are an elite choice, not fast attack.

:O

Well hello there my brigade formation (I hate bringing more than one riptide and I was waiting for a way to not have to bring suits.)

Guys, should we tell him stealth suits are suits?

topaxygouroun i wrote:
If you are looking for fusions, honestly a ghostkeel or a coldstar commander is better. With a Ghostkeel you can have d3+2 fusion shots, forward deployment and -2 to be hit. With the coldstar commander you have 4 fusion shots and 40" move before you unload.

Stealths on the other side have the awkward rule of one fusion in 3 models, which means that you pay a lot of points for that one fusion shot.

Also, I find that a single piranha is basically the same shootout in the same slots (fast) as the stealth teams, but will actually be better than three stealth suits. It has the same shooting and trades survivability (-1 to hit) for mobility (increased movement). However, its shooting does not degrade (but you will lose burst cannon shots for every stealth suit you lose) and it's a little cheaper to boot. Finally it can split into two units and go capture multiple objectives at will.

Overall I am meh about the stealth suits. Even if they look damn beautiful.

The big problem is keeping the Stealth Drones alive.

Why does everyone say Broadsides are good? In every game I use them they get wiped out turn 1. I always get Lanced or Lascannoned to death, so my cover bonus is pointless. I had 3 broadsides, a literal quarter of my army, wiped out by a Fire Prism and a Hemlock.

Even if I put them out of LOS, the enemy just moves and shoots them.

 Jancoran wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Riptides without branched nova and markerlights aren't half as scary.
Y'varah has a reputation and makes a great distraction but is overcosted.
You have 5CP total, I normally burn through 3-4 per turn.

Overcosted? hehehe. Okay.

Yes they really need about 25 to 50 points removed to mirror the overcosted riptide chassis they where costed to, R'vana is even worse. I'm not talking being 300 points but GW really overcosted everything in the index badly and the FW index shows it was based of such shonky points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Why does everyone say Broadsides are good? In every game I use them they get wiped out turn 1. I always get Lanced or Lascannoned to death, so my cover bonus is pointless. I had 3 broadsides, a literal quarter of my army, wiped out by a Fire Prism and a Hemlock.

Even if I put them out of LOS, the enemy just moves and shoots them.

With sufficient drones and other targets in your list you really shouldn't be loosing them so fast as the drone tanks lascannons and lances even msu with the 5+ it should take an avarage of 5 shoots before your taking wounds on broadsides.

I've only played one game so far with the codex but that was my sentiment with the broadsides as well. I actually took them out of my original list and replaced them with a stormsurge which worked out quite well.

For less points, and even though it was charged and brought down to 5 wounds, it managed to kill 3 blood angel/deathwatch characters and what was left of a squad of sanguinary guard trying to charge it in overwatch with the pulse blastcannon, it was insane. I was even forgetting to use my re-rolls in overwatch from the systems.

The broadsides still seem too expensive for what they do.

Its been a while since I posted but I have a GT coming up and I'd like some criticism from fellow tau players. I posted the lists I am considering in the army list section. I'd appreciate any help to make my list better for the tournament. Thanks.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/757123.page

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Why does everyone say Broadsides are good? In every game I use them they get wiped out turn 1. I always get Lanced or Lascannoned to death, so my cover bonus is pointless. I had 3 broadsides, a literal quarter of my army, wiped out by a Fire Prism and a Hemlock.

Even if I put them out of LOS, the enemy just moves and shoots them.

You need to start playing with better terrain. 40k has been balanced around densely packed line of sight blocking terrain since 6th.

SJ

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Why does everyone say Broadsides are good? In every game I use them they get wiped out turn 1. I always get Lanced or Lascannoned to death, so my cover bonus is pointless. I had 3 broadsides, a literal quarter of my army, wiped out by a Fire Prism and a Hemlock.

Even if I put them out of LOS, the enemy just moves and shoots them.

If they're not good, why are your opponents focus firing them to death?

I'm assuming here that they plinked your drones to death first with small arms fire, but I think if you kept all 3 Broadsides in one unit you were asking for them to get wiped out. If you're fielding Broadsides without drones, well, yeah, easy targets.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Why does everyone say Broadsides are good? In every game I use them they get wiped out turn 1. I always get Lanced or Lascannoned to death, so my cover bonus is pointless. I had 3 broadsides, a literal quarter of my army, wiped out by a Fire Prism and a Hemlock.

Even if I put them out of LOS, the enemy just moves and shoots them.

Drones. Sacrificial drones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ice_can wrote:


Yes they really need about 25 to 50 points removed to mirror the overcosted riptide chassis they where costed to, R'vana is even worse. I'm not talking being 300 points but GW really overcosted everything in the index badly and the FW index shows it was based of such shonky points.
.

Could not agree less. YVarrah is terrifying and always supported with Drones. Its absurd how good it can be.

I have a tournament tomorrow, and I'll be running a list I've tried a couple of times, but replacing my Broadsides with a Stormsurge. I'm hoping it'll prove to be a bit more durable and useful. I feel like it has decent saturation since there are also a couple of Riptides and a Y'vahra for my opponents to shoot at.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I have a tournament tomorrow, and I'll be running a list I've tried a couple of times, but replacing my Broadsides with a Stormsurge. I'm hoping it'll prove to be a bit more durable and useful. I feel like it has decent saturation since there are also a couple of Riptides and a Y'vahra for my opponents to shoot at.

My warning always is to play what you practice. Last minute changes are fine but I always recommend knowing yur tolerances and the feel of your army before going to tournaments. Do your thing, of course but its advice I've come to respect. I am that guy that has no idea what he's playinguntil the day of the tournament and while Ido well, it clearly hampers me. Yet when I go to "old faithful" lists, even when they aren't "necessarily" better, they always perform for me and I always know whento hold em and know when to fold em. Practice games can make something that is slightly less than optimal work better than optimal!

Why does everyone say Broadsides are good? In every game I use them they get wiped out turn 1. I always get Lanced or Lascannoned to death, so my cover bonus is pointless. I had 3 broadsides, a literal quarter of my army, wiped out by a Fire Prism and a Hemlock.

Erm...that definitely shouldn't have happened. Where was the drone support? Broadsides are glass cannons and need drones to live, just like any of our other suits. Even without drones, that sounds like some seriously impressive rolling on your opponent's part - like pretty darn close to perfect. His maximum damage output for those 2 units is 25 and you have 18 wounds.

People say Broadsides are good because they spew damage extremely effectively despite being fragile for the cost. All you really need out of them is a turn or two of buffed firepower, and they'll easily mow down just about anything you want. Pop Kauyon, C&CN, Focused Fire, and 5 markerlights on turn 1, and a unit of 3 ATS Missilesides is good to gun down 2-3 units of your choice. I'd say that's worth investing some points in drones for. If you can also manage to lay down some forward pressure with Commanders and maybe Ghostkeels and/or Stealth Suits, you might even allow your Broadsides to live a few turns. In addition to Focused Fire, Tau sept also makes them virtually unchargeable. Nobody is going to want to weather an extra mini shooting phase from that unit. Even without buffs, you can count on doing ~10 wounds to most things, just with the Broadsides alone. Given that there'll very likely be a bunch of Firebladed Fire Warriors around, not much is going to come knocking.

 Jancoran wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I have a tournament tomorrow, and I'll be running a list I've tried a couple of times, but replacing my Broadsides with a Stormsurge. I'm hoping it'll prove to be a bit more durable and useful. I feel like it has decent saturation since there are also a couple of Riptides and a Y'vahra for my opponents to shoot at.

My warning always is to play what you practice. Last minute changes are fine but I always recommend knowing yur tolerances and the feel of your army before going to tournaments. Do your thing, of course but its advice I've come to respect. I am that guy that has no idea what he's playinguntil the day of the tournament and while Ido well, it clearly hampers me. Yet when I go to "old faithful" lists, even when they aren't "necessarily" better, they always perform for me and I always know whento hold em and know when to fold em. Practice games can make something that is slightly less than optimal work better than optimal!

Oh, I definitely agree, but I hardly got much practice in with this list anyway. As it happens, to me it was a good change as the Stormsurge did perform well (except in the game where it got blown up turn 1 by a 3-Tigershark list, exploding and killing a Coldstar and damaging a bunch of other stuff). I will definitely keep the Surge in the list. Not that Broadsides are terrible, per se, but they require more planning and thought on positioning, etc. whereas the Surge is very much point and click.

I dont leave home without the Surge. I was just exhorting one to caution in making changes too quickly

So, apparently Tiger Sharks are really good now. So many shots!

For ~400-600 points it better be really good.

The biggest downside I see to the flyers is that they fit a weird spot alot of the weapon ranges don't sync up well.
Don't get me wrong 24 BS2+ HBC shots and 2d6 skyspear missiles will give drukari and even harlequins and probably ork vehicals a good going over but against T7+ thats a lot of shots to be fishing for 5&6 with a save after.

If I have a stormsurge or a skyray and get two markerlight hits on a target. Is there a limit to how many seeker/destroyer missiles I can fire at that target that round?

 GeckoDragon wrote:
If I have a stormsurge or a skyray and get two markerlight hits on a target. Is there a limit to how many seeker/destroyer missiles I can fire at that target that round?

Nope. Shoot them all.

SJ

I was looking at best coast pairings and it looks like a Tau player won an 80man gt over the weekend. I can't seem to find his list but it's good to see Tau in the upper ranks of tournaments.

 FirePainter wrote:
I was looking at best coast pairings and it looks like a Tau player won an 80man gt over the weekend. I can't seem to find his list but it's good to see Tau in the upper ranks of tournaments.

It was a standard Tau list, the sort of thing we're always talking about. I don't have it right now, but it was something like:

Coldstars with fusions
Cadre Fireblades
Strikes
3 HBC Riptides
2 Stealth teams

If you guys are talking about Midwest Conquest, then I know the Tau player in question, and he's pretty good. I've faced him before. A few guys from my local gaming club were there also and placed well.

I'm loving Tau right now, they actually feel really good.


Just a question on a unit I'm debating with myself about - how do you guys feel about Ghostkeels?

Ice_can wrote:The biggest downside I see to the flyers is that they fit a weird spot alot of the weapon ranges don't sync up well.
Don't get me wrong 24 BS2+ HBC shots and 2d6 skyspear missiles will give drukari and even harlequins and probably ork vehicals a good going over but against T7+ thats a lot of shots to be fishing for 5&6 with a save after.

I noticed this too, splitting targets might help to make it seem less wonky in practice than it will on paper, but I haven't actually taken the time to test them yet.

I enjoy taking at least 1 ghostkeel in most of lists. The high T, - to hit and infiltrate abilities combined make a versatile unit. Mine usually don't do a lot of damage but they are annoying to my opponent and provide a big anti deepstrike bubble.

I have one in my list for a GT this weekend. I'll post up so battle reports after and let you know how it does.

 FirePainter wrote:
I enjoy taking at least 1 ghostkeel in most of lists. The high T, - to hit and infiltrate abilities combined make a versatile unit. Mine usually don't do a lot of damage but they are annoying to my opponent and provide a big anti deepstrike bubble.

I have one in my list for a GT this weekend. I'll post up so battle reports after and let you know how it does.

thanks man, I'd appreciate it.

I decided to take the plunge and start collecting T'au, picking up a small collection from a friend who doesn't want them anymore. Looking to expand my knowledge of the great good before I invest in any more models or take them out for a serious game.

How do folks feel about the Devilfish/Tidewall? Devilfish seems great for managing your deployment drops with a 12 man capacity what with being able to fit a single big squad, a couple of small squads, or squad + characters. Tidewall on the other hand seems like a really nice fire platform to just unload pulse carbine dakka.

Broadsides. Do we take these individually, or in units? Is HYMP worth it over the rail rifle? Is the advanced targeting system worth it, or should I just go with the shield generator? I've got 6 and I'd like to know how best to use them.

Do people take drones as units unto themselves, or are they best purchased as unit upgrades for suits/fire warriors? Are marker drones worth it, or is it better to use other options for your markerlights?

Love to hear everyone's thoughts!

Devilfish are okay-ish though still overcosted. That said, they're giant models, so you can use them fairly effectively as roadblocks. I think I'd only ever put special weapon Pathfinders or Breachers in them. Maybe Gun Drones if you're wanting to do some Fireblade tricks. Except for Breachers, you're probably better off just taking more guys and/or guns instead of a transport. Tau are pretty mobile these days and suffer quite a lot when they're stuff in a transport. You want those guns blasting away.

Broadsides are great if you can buff them effectively and keep drones around them. the HYMP/SMS with ATS variant is the popular and most effective load-out. A unit of 3 of them lays out some serious pain with Kauyon, 5 marker lights, Command and Control Node, and Focused Fire (if they're Tau sept). The rail rifle gets some occasional love in Sa'cea lists, but it's mostly just a cheap alternative if you're short on points. Commanders usually provide more than enough firepower with that particular stat line by way of fusion blasters.

Drones...just get them where you can. I've resigned myself to more or less auto-losing kill points games during which I don't table my opponent, so I'm perfectly happy to take minimal drone squads to prevent morale losses and get extra drones from suits.

I think marker drones are a poor choice, personally. There are lots of better marker sources, particularly Firesight Marksmen and Pathfinders, and shield drones are much better at protecting your big, mean suits. They're stuck in a jack-of-all-trades role.

Took best general at a 1750 10 man ITC RTT this weekend. Went 2-0-1.

List was;

Tau battalion
CIB Commander with Tau relic
Darkstrider
Fireblade with Purtide, through unity WLT

4x10 Strikes

3x3 Stealth teams with velocity trackers

1x4 shield drones
1x5 pathfinders with 3 ion rifles

2x1 HRR/SMS broadsides with target lock

Sacea battalion
CIB commander with iridium armor
Ethereal

3x5 Strikes, ML on sgt

3x1 Marksmen

Farsight Patrol
Coldstar with 2 fusion+ fusion blades

1x10 Kroot

Not really sure how I got best general, I got lucky with match ups and scored well in Rd 2/3, and I think most other players were in tight matches.

Game 2 was Eldar, 3 fire prisms, 3 crimson hunter exarchs, 3 ranger squads, some swooping hawks, baharoth, 2 farseers and an autarch. Hammer and anvil. 6 objectives, bonus pt for holding 5 at once. I got first turn, used stealth suits to grab 2 obj on his side, and move up to create a screen for my Fusion commander to land in. Walked onion of death up the middle of the board. Sacea helped me get 5 marks on a flier, Tau sept trait helped me blow it up. TUD is amazing with +1 to wound on fire warriors. Kroot charged two ranger squads, wiped one and piled into the other. He kept fliers on his table edge to avoid getting blown up again and focused everything into stealth teams trying to get to fusion commander. He killed 6 stealth suits, but my fusion commander got out alright.

Rd 2 I jumped fusion commander up next to a prism/exarch. Moved everything up more, had very limited shots available cause he was on his board edge. Blew up a fire prism with the fusion commander shooting, and did some damage to the exarch. Broadsides put some wounds on the other exarch, but fortune saved him a ton of damage. Only killed a few rangers cause of bad rolls with the rest. Charged the exarch and rolled pretty bad, at the end of the turn it had 3 wounds left. His turn 2 the fusion commander died, lost pathfinders he did a few wounds to a broadside when only 1 drone wanted to do its job. Last stealth time died.

Rd 3 was the last rd. I put down one of the exarchs with a cib commander, finished last ranger squad, failed to finish an exarch. Moved to hold 4 obj. He moved out aggressively to get a recon point and hold an objective. Failed to kill anything.

Game 3 was against Orks with a brigade. 140 boyz, 5 mek guns, ~17 stormboyz, 10 kommandos, ghaz, 2 weirdboyz, painboy. Dawn of war.

Large LOS blocking middle of board was very dangerous for me, didn't want to get charged from out of LOS. Had to deploy in a gakky location to avoid that liability. Basically he refuse flanked me, ate some stuff I had on left flank and was forced to feed me one unit of boyz at a time via Da Jump. I used stealth teams on top of buildings to harass, they killed most of the stormboyz with overwatch. Broadsides and fusion commander killed most of the mek gunz. Fusion commander hilariously failed in an attempt to root some grotz off an objective and died to mass boyz fire after they teleported back to him. I ended up winning a pretty tight game at the bottom of 5 because he was just running out of bodies and I finally had enough breathing room to move my onion into the middle of the board. If there had been less LOS blocking terrain anywhere midfield I could have moved up and it would have been a much worse match for him. Still, was a terrible matchup for him, and his only real hope was to camp objectives and try to deny me points.

Overall thoughts

Onion of death is awesome. Fire warriors are super strong. Fusion coldstar is mostly a trap, for both players. People will dedicate way too much to stopping him, careful use of him with stealth suits can set up some good scoring plays and delay enemy plans. Over aggression with him = die like a bitch. HRR broadsides with target lock are solid. They really need markerlights/tau strat to do work, but even without they are passable. The mobility was useful in every game for getting LOS and staying safe. Stealth teams are god-tier. They are so durable and obnoxious, their deployment options are amazing, and they really enable a lot of the rest of the list. If I could, I would build a list entirely around stealth teams, but rule of 3 has made that impossible. I may add a fourth model with a fusion, but it's just so expensive, and the burst cannons are quite good for their job. CIB commanders do insane damage, but not being able to DS them aggressively turn 1 means I've been playing them more defensively. Sacea battalion is awesome. I can typically get 5 markerlights up on a primary target, and then 1 on a few others, or with a little luck, 5 on a second. Kroot are also amazing, their damage output is very high for their cost, they're mobile and people underestimate them. If their LD wasn't garbage, I'd use a lot more of them.