Switch Theme:

Chaos Space Marine codex rumours (pretty much everything leaked, everything was true)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





The wait is painful.

I'm also just concerned that we won't have all that much time to actually play with the chaos marines, if 10th edition is coming next year. There's a little birdy that's talking about 10th ed being a simplification and return to indexes.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne




drbored wrote:
The wait is painful.

I'm also just concerned that we won't have all that much time to actually play with the chaos marines, if 10th edition is coming next year. There's a little birdy that's talking about 10th ed being a simplification and return to indexes.


Interesting, care to share or point me in the right direction?
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

Unless they go full AOS on us, I can't imagine them changing 40K enough to push us back to the Index phase. Not that the game couldn't uses a serious and comprehensive update on comparative weapon effectiveness.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Dudeface wrote:
drbored wrote:
The wait is painful.

I'm also just concerned that we won't have all that much time to actually play with the chaos marines, if 10th edition is coming next year. There's a little birdy that's talking about 10th ed being a simplification and return to indexes.


Interesting, care to share or point me in the right direction?


Was in a 40k discord channel.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 alextroy wrote:
Unless they go full AOS on us, I can't imagine them changing 40K enough to push us back to the Index phase. Not that the game couldn't uses a serious and comprehensive update on comparative weapon effectiveness.


If GW acknowledge to themselves that 40k has become too complicated because of excess stratagems and layered rules, then they have a few ways they could go about it.

A. They could release a huge weapon datasheet that changes every faction's weapon profiles to lower overall AP and damage across the board while also adjusting points values across the board. This would be a massive undertaking and hella confusing for players.

B. They keep 9th edition codexes but find a way to strip out 10th edition codexes of complexity, which would be seen by many as a 'nerfing' of options, especially if they reduce the number of stratagems you get access to, or the over-layered rules are reduced. This also creates a similar situation that we've had all through 8th and 9th, where you have armies that have their codexes being clearly different than armies that don't. This problem still exists if they return to indexes.

C. They reduce all the new codexes, including those they just released at the end of 9th (astra militarum, chaos marines, chaos daemons, leagues of votann, world eaters, all still yet to come out that will likely get under a year of actual playtime) to indexes. The disadvantage is that it strips armies down to some very base levels. The advantage is they can make sweeping changes to the stratagem system, command point system, points, weapon profiles, and all of the other details of all of the armies to a base level without unintentionally breaking a 9th edition codex in 10th edition. In my mind, if they do A, they may as well just do C, since a lot of work would already be done in shifting weapon profiles.

D. They just keep doing what they're doing and continue this crapshoot system, continuing to scare people away from their top selling game.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/15 20:09:28


 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne




B + A is the best answer really, they've shown via the sigmar roll out you can pull factions up with monthly WD updates while the books are done, plus they removed a whole swathe of core army building options in the process without it looking unnatural imo.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Dudeface wrote:
B + A is the best answer really, they've shown via the sigmar roll out you can pull factions up with monthly WD updates while the books are done, plus they removed a whole swathe of core army building options in the process without it looking unnatural imo.


This is true. Plus, finally giving us points updates for free is a big step in the right direction.
   
Made in ca
Nihilistic Necron Lord




The best State-Texas

drbored wrote:
The wait is painful.

I'm also just concerned that we won't have all that much time to actually play with the chaos marines, if 10th edition is coming next year. There's a little birdy that's talking about 10th ed being a simplification and return to indexes.


I highly doubt they are going to do such a radical change. 8th and 9th were such huge successes I feel like taking that kind of risk would be pretty nuts.

4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
:Necron: Necron Discord: https://discord.com/invite/AGtpeD4  
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






drbored wrote:
B. They keep 9th edition codexes but find a way to strip out 10th edition codexes of complexity, which would be seen by many as a 'nerfing' of options, especially if they reduce the number of stratagems you get access to, or the over-layered rules are reduced. This also creates a similar situation that we've had all through 8th and 9th, where you have armies that have their codexes being clearly different than armies that don't. This problem still exists if they return to indexes.


At least for stratagems, they could just release a book similar to nachtmund where every army has 6 stratagems or something and then tell everyone that these are all the stratagems you can use for that season.

Shaving of the 8-10 layers of rules packed on some armies is indeed a bit more tricky, especially since some of those were added to address specific problems. I guess an index-style publication would be the only way to handle that fairly.

I present you, the the most misquoted part of all 40k lore:
Genetor Lukas Anzion in Codex Orks, 3rd edition wrote:[...] To the Ork, the only conceivable explanation for this is that the vehicle travels faster because it is red. However, as disturbing as it sounds, these 'facts' become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colors, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Ork's subconscious somehow ensures that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired.

This is literally all GW ever wrote on this topic - everything else is meme knowledge 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





I think World Eaters will be sooner than 10th, they were on the B&C leak list that is still spot on, and that one was based on seeing models rather than rules from what people have been saying.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Tastyfish wrote:
I think World Eaters will be sooner than 10th, they were on the B&C leak list that is still spot on, and that one was based on seeing models rather than rules from what people have been saying.


Yes very likely. 10th would be summer of 2023. World Eaters were originally rumored to be end of year 2022.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Yeah I don't think people are going to fork out for a full book every 6 months to get the 6 new Strats that they are allowed to use, especially people who only play one or two armies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/15 21:50:20


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

I still expect The Old World as a possible launch next year so they can go 40k-AoS-HH-OW in a cycle so they don't double tap on any crowds.

Then again that might just be what the plan was before Covid happened.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





United States

drbored wrote:
The wait is painful.

I'm also just concerned that we won't have all that much time to actually play with the chaos marines, if 10th edition is coming next year. There's a little birdy that's talking about 10th ed being a simplification and return to indexes.


What's interesting to me is that the new Horus Heresy has me much more excited than the prospect of what no doubt will be yet another mediocre book for Chaos. If by chance there is some abuseable over powered thing in the book like what we have seen with the last few books, that will still be rather sad.

Starting up some Iron Warriors for the 31st Millennium just seem so much more exciting!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Togusa wrote:
drbored wrote:
The wait is painful.

I'm also just concerned that we won't have all that much time to actually play with the chaos marines, if 10th edition is coming next year. There's a little birdy that's talking about 10th ed being a simplification and return to indexes.


What's interesting to me is that the new Horus Heresy has me much more excited than the prospect of what no doubt will be yet another mediocre book for Chaos. If by chance there is some abuseable over powered thing in the book like what we have seen with the last few books, that will still be rather sad.

Starting up some Iron Warriors for the 31st Millennium just seem so much more exciting!


I definitely understand this sentiment. I prefer the 40k Chaos models quite a lot, and I'm always excited about the potential of more Chaos Space Marine models.

But, I am indeed excited for 30k. The chance to play a big army game that isn't updated every 3 years that might actually be relatively balanced and more friendly for narrative players has me pretty thrilled.

But Sisters of Battle and Chaos Space Marines are my 2 favorite 40k factions. So, I hope they just get treated well, if not from a rules standpoint, then at least from a model standpoint, and so far that aspect has been pretty spot on for me. Just a handful of things I want updated.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





United States

drbored wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
drbored wrote:
The wait is painful.

I'm also just concerned that we won't have all that much time to actually play with the chaos marines, if 10th edition is coming next year. There's a little birdy that's talking about 10th ed being a simplification and return to indexes.


What's interesting to me is that the new Horus Heresy has me much more excited than the prospect of what no doubt will be yet another mediocre book for Chaos. If by chance there is some abuseable over powered thing in the book like what we have seen with the last few books, that will still be rather sad.

Starting up some Iron Warriors for the 31st Millennium just seem so much more exciting!


I definitely understand this sentiment. I prefer the 40k Chaos models quite a lot, and I'm always excited about the potential of more Chaos Space Marine models.

But, I am indeed excited for 30k. The chance to play a big army game that isn't updated every 3 years that might actually be relatively balanced and more friendly for narrative players has me pretty thrilled.

But Sisters of Battle and Chaos Space Marines are my 2 favorite 40k factions. So, I hope they just get treated well, if not from a rules standpoint, then at least from a model standpoint, and so far that aspect has been pretty spot on for me. Just a handful of things I want updated.


I've been playing Chaos for three editions now and they just never seem to ever be right. I would love for them to be treated well, but from what I've been told they haven't been treated well since their fourth edition book, which is widely considered to be perfect.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Togusa wrote:
drbored wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
drbored wrote:
The wait is painful.

I'm also just concerned that we won't have all that much time to actually play with the chaos marines, if 10th edition is coming next year. There's a little birdy that's talking about 10th ed being a simplification and return to indexes.


What's interesting to me is that the new Horus Heresy has me much more excited than the prospect of what no doubt will be yet another mediocre book for Chaos. If by chance there is some abuseable over powered thing in the book like what we have seen with the last few books, that will still be rather sad.

Starting up some Iron Warriors for the 31st Millennium just seem so much more exciting!


I definitely understand this sentiment. I prefer the 40k Chaos models quite a lot, and I'm always excited about the potential of more Chaos Space Marine models.

But, I am indeed excited for 30k. The chance to play a big army game that isn't updated every 3 years that might actually be relatively balanced and more friendly for narrative players has me pretty thrilled.

But Sisters of Battle and Chaos Space Marines are my 2 favorite 40k factions. So, I hope they just get treated well, if not from a rules standpoint, then at least from a model standpoint, and so far that aspect has been pretty spot on for me. Just a handful of things I want updated.


I've been playing Chaos for three editions now and they just never seem to ever be right. I would love for them to be treated well, but from what I've been told they haven't been treated well since their fourth edition book, which is widely considered to be perfect.


I'll admit that some of it is nostalgia-goggles. 3.5 had so many options, but it was also a very broken Codex. Ever since then, we've been punished for it.

But, a big part of that is that Chaos Space Marines is something different to every fan.

To one fan, Chaos Marines is a faction where you can take a handful of marines and swarms of cultists to throw at enemy lines like fodder.
To another, Chaos Marines is spikey marines with relics from the Horus Heresy now dedicated to the dark gods.
And another, Chaos Marines is a warpsmith daemonprince that leads an army of siege engines.

If you compare that to factions like Tau, Necron, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, or Imperial/Chaos Knights, you can see that many of these factions have a very straightforward theme. Yes, there are different army builds in each of these factions, but if you asked a fan what they expect out of the Necron, they'll say 'robots with green lightning weapons', and every kit that they've gotten has fit perfectly that theme.

When you look at Chaos Marines, one fan will want more daemon engines, another will want cultists, another will want more options for traitor guard, and still another will want nothing more than new rules for the Vindicator for their Iron Warriors. Any one kit that GW puts out is likely to disappoint more Chaos players than it pleases.

Combine that with the fact that many chaos units have lost more options than they've gained, and you end up with plenty of grumpy people, even if they've only been with the faction since 7th edition.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

3.5 was far from perfect, but it is something Chaos players have been paying for for 15+ years now.

And as drbored said, Chaos is a vast concept that covers so many different things, and for everything GW adds, we lose two more things (this time around it's tons of HQ options and all our fething Cult Troops ).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 00:12:08


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I still expect The Old World as a possible launch next year so they can go 40k-AoS-HH-OW in a cycle so they don't double tap on any crowds.

Then again that might just be what the plan was before Covid happened.


With 40k 10th (unofficially) slated for next year, I don't see how it *could* be TOW. A big launch like I would expect for TOW is a once per year release slot, I don't see how TOW and 10th can happen in the same year, so either TOW is delayed or 10th is delayed or next year works out to be expensive.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

chaos0xomega wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
I still expect The Old World as a possible launch next year so they can go 40k-AoS-HH-OW in a cycle so they don't double tap on any crowds.

Then again that might just be what the plan was before Covid happened.


With 40k 10th (unofficially) slated for next year, I don't see how it *could* be TOW. A big launch like I would expect for TOW is a once per year release slot, I don't see how TOW and 10th can happen in the same year, so either TOW is delayed or 10th is delayed or next year works out to be expensive.

I'm saying I expect TOW instead of 10th. I know the community expects 10th because it's the end of the 3 year cycle, but I'm hoping by putting a 4th major game in the mix all the games end up on 4 year cycles instead.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 ClockworkZion wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
I still expect The Old World as a possible launch next year so they can go 40k-AoS-HH-OW in a cycle so they don't double tap on any crowds.

Then again that might just be what the plan was before Covid happened.


With 40k 10th (unofficially) slated for next year, I don't see how it *could* be TOW. A big launch like I would expect for TOW is a once per year release slot, I don't see how TOW and 10th can happen in the same year, so either TOW is delayed or 10th is delayed or next year works out to be expensive.

I'm saying I expect TOW instead of 10th. I know the community expects 10th because it's the end of the 3 year cycle, but I'm hoping by putting a 4th major game in the mix all the games end up on 4 year cycles instead.


I've got mixed feelings on this sort of thing. On the one hand: it gives 9th a longer lifespan, but there are some really key issues with 9th. On the other hand, The Old World is going to be a forgeworld release. I see it sprinkled in among other things the same way the Middle Earth Strategy Game is. There may be an initial big hubbalaboo about it in the first months of its release, but after that? Who knows? I don't see it interrupting the current cycle of AoS, 40k, 30k and keeping things on a 3 year cycle.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
3.5 was far from perfect, but it is something Chaos players have been paying for for 15+ years now.

And as drbored said, Chaos is a vast concept that covers so many different things, and for everything GW adds, we lose two more things (this time around it's tons of HQ options and all our fething Cult Troops ).

It's a shame the Legion supplement for 7th lasted less than a year. It proved my point of how all Legions can theoretically fit in one codex and keep a majority of unit options.

Granted the Legions were absolutely not balanced there either but there ya go.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

chaos0xomega wrote:
With 40k 10th (unofficially) slated for next year...
I hope that's not true.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
It's a shame the Legion supplement for 7th lasted less than a year. It proved my point of how all Legions can theoretically fit in one codex and keep a majority of unit options.
Spoiler:



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/16 03:50:56


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





The one bit of comfort I tend to get from this hobby is that at the very least, after I've built and painted a model, it's done. And 90% of the time I enjoy that process.

I refuse to buy kits that I personally feel are too old or don't match the aesthetic of the army that they're for (in this case, bikers and rhinos and such) and simply wait until they get updated.

Rules will always change. Plastic is eternal.
   
Made in gb
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

drbored wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
I still expect The Old World as a possible launch next year so they can go 40k-AoS-HH-OW in a cycle so they don't double tap on any crowds.

Then again that might just be what the plan was before Covid happened.


With 40k 10th (unofficially) slated for next year, I don't see how it *could* be TOW. A big launch like I would expect for TOW is a once per year release slot, I don't see how TOW and 10th can happen in the same year, so either TOW is delayed or 10th is delayed or next year works out to be expensive.

I'm saying I expect TOW instead of 10th. I know the community expects 10th because it's the end of the 3 year cycle, but I'm hoping by putting a 4th major game in the mix all the games end up on 4 year cycles instead.


I've got mixed feelings on this sort of thing. On the one hand: it gives 9th a longer lifespan, but there are some really key issues with 9th. On the other hand, The Old World is going to be a forgeworld release. I see it sprinkled in among other things the same way the Middle Earth Strategy Game is. There may be an initial big hubbalaboo about it in the first months of its release, but after that? Who knows? I don't see it interrupting the current cycle of AoS, 40k, 30k and keeping things on a 3 year cycle.


This big Horus Heresy push is also a Forge World release. Although I’m not expecting The Old World to have that level of investment unfortunately.
   
Made in jp
Boosting Space Marine Biker





Stuck in the snow.

drbored wrote:
Spoiler:
 Togusa wrote:
drbored wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
drbored wrote:
The wait is painful.

I'm also just concerned that we won't have all that much time to actually play with the chaos marines, if 10th edition is coming next year. There's a little birdy that's talking about 10th ed being a simplification and return to indexes.


What's interesting to me is that the new Horus Heresy has me much more excited than the prospect of what no doubt will be yet another mediocre book for Chaos. If by chance there is some abuseable over powered thing in the book like what we have seen with the last few books, that will still be rather sad.

Starting up some Iron Warriors for the 31st Millennium just seem so much more exciting!


I definitely understand this sentiment. I prefer the 40k Chaos models quite a lot, and I'm always excited about the potential of more Chaos Space Marine models.

But, I am indeed excited for 30k. The chance to play a big army game that isn't updated every 3 years that might actually be relatively balanced and more friendly for narrative players has me pretty thrilled.

But Sisters of Battle and Chaos Space Marines are my 2 favorite 40k factions. So, I hope they just get treated well, if not from a rules standpoint, then at least from a model standpoint, and so far that aspect has been pretty spot on for me. Just a handful of things I want updated.


I've been playing Chaos for three editions now and they just never seem to ever be right. I would love for them to be treated well, but from what I've been told they haven't been treated well since their fourth edition book, which is widely considered to be perfect.


I'll admit that some of it is nostalgia-goggles. 3.5 had so many options, but it was also a very broken Codex. Ever since then, we've been punished for it.

But, a big part of that is that Chaos Space Marines is something different to every fan.

Spoiler:
To one fan, Chaos Marines is a faction where you can take a handful of marines and swarms of cultists to throw at enemy lines like fodder.
To another, Chaos Marines is spikey marines with relics from the Horus Heresy now dedicated to the dark gods.
And another, Chaos Marines is a warpsmith daemonprince that leads an army of siege engines.

If you compare that to factions like Tau, Necron, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, or Imperial/Chaos Knights, you can see that many of these factions have a very straightforward theme. Yes, there are different army builds in each of these factions, but if you asked a fan what they expect out of the Necron, they'll say 'robots with green lightning weapons', and every kit that they've gotten has fit perfectly that theme.

When you look at Chaos Marines, one fan will want more daemon engines, another will want cultists, another will want more options for traitor guard, and still another will want nothing more than new rules for the Vindicator for their Iron Warriors. Any one kit that GW puts out is likely to disappoint more Chaos players than it pleases.

Combine that with the fact that many chaos units have lost more options than they've gained, and you end up with plenty of grumpy people, even if they've only been with the faction since 7th edition.


Edit: Oops, I pressed submit, not preview

I was going to say that this has been said before but GW could solve all of this by expanding Chaos beyond just CSM. Spikey marines in CSM, cults/Ren guard in Lost and the Damned, and daemon engines in Dark Mechanicus.

Then you they'd need to revamp the ally rules, but let's be honest, they should have been revamped a long time ago to account for force mixing in a setting accurate way. There's no reason an Imperial player shouldn't be able to field a lore accurate force of Guard with Marine fire support and Inquisitorial command any more than a Chaos player should be restricted from adding renegade guard and true daemons to their Word Bearers warband.

The problem currently is that most of the force construction rules are either way too general (rule of 3 on everything rather than bespoke unit restrictions for example) or way too restrictive ( all models loosing all of their Chapter rules etc if they include anything outside of their specific codex-subfaction combo that isn't otherwise specifically called out as being ok). They should be paring back bloat in things like strategems and instead give a choice between leveraging the strengths of a combined arms approach to Imperium/Chaos or focus on making the most out of a more specialized force without allies.

At that point the only issue is book costs which again, wasn't an issue until they switched from soft to hard cover and doubled the price of all codexes...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/16 05:13:23


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Jack Flask wrote:
drbored wrote:
Spoiler:
 Togusa wrote:
drbored wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
drbored wrote:
The wait is painful.

I'm also just concerned that we won't have all that much time to actually play with the chaos marines, if 10th edition is coming next year. There's a little birdy that's talking about 10th ed being a simplification and return to indexes.


What's interesting to me is that the new Horus Heresy has me much more excited than the prospect of what no doubt will be yet another mediocre book for Chaos. If by chance there is some abuseable over powered thing in the book like what we have seen with the last few books, that will still be rather sad.

Starting up some Iron Warriors for the 31st Millennium just seem so much more exciting!


I definitely understand this sentiment. I prefer the 40k Chaos models quite a lot, and I'm always excited about the potential of more Chaos Space Marine models.

But, I am indeed excited for 30k. The chance to play a big army game that isn't updated every 3 years that might actually be relatively balanced and more friendly for narrative players has me pretty thrilled.

But Sisters of Battle and Chaos Space Marines are my 2 favorite 40k factions. So, I hope they just get treated well, if not from a rules standpoint, then at least from a model standpoint, and so far that aspect has been pretty spot on for me. Just a handful of things I want updated.


I've been playing Chaos for three editions now and they just never seem to ever be right. I would love for them to be treated well, but from what I've been told they haven't been treated well since their fourth edition book, which is widely considered to be perfect.


I'll admit that some of it is nostalgia-goggles. 3.5 had so many options, but it was also a very broken Codex. Ever since then, we've been punished for it.

But, a big part of that is that Chaos Space Marines is something different to every fan.

Spoiler:
To one fan, Chaos Marines is a faction where you can take a handful of marines and swarms of cultists to throw at enemy lines like fodder.
To another, Chaos Marines is spikey marines with relics from the Horus Heresy now dedicated to the dark gods.
And another, Chaos Marines is a warpsmith daemonprince that leads an army of siege engines.

If you compare that to factions like Tau, Necron, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, or Imperial/Chaos Knights, you can see that many of these factions have a very straightforward theme. Yes, there are different army builds in each of these factions, but if you asked a fan what they expect out of the Necron, they'll say 'robots with green lightning weapons', and every kit that they've gotten has fit perfectly that theme.

When you look at Chaos Marines, one fan will want more daemon engines, another will want cultists, another will want more options for traitor guard, and still another will want nothing more than new rules for the Vindicator for their Iron Warriors. Any one kit that GW puts out is likely to disappoint more Chaos players than it pleases.

Combine that with the fact that many chaos units have lost more options than they've gained, and you end up with plenty of grumpy people, even if they've only been with the faction since 7th edition.


Edit: Oops, I pressed submit, not preview

I was going to say that this has been said before but GW could solve all of this by expanding Chaos beyond just CSM. Spikey marines in CSM, cults/Ren guard in Lost and the Damned, and daemon engines in Dark Mechanicus.

Then you they'd need to revamp the ally rules, but let's be honest, they should have been revamped a long time ago to account for force mixing in a setting accurate way. There's no reason an Imperial player shouldn't be able to field a lore accurate force of Guard with Marine fire support and Inquisitorial command any more than a Chaos player should be restricted from adding renegade guard and true daemons to their Word Bearers warband.

The problem currently is that most of the force construction rules are either way too general (rule of 3 on everything rather than bespoke unit restrictions for example) or way too restrictive ( all models loosing all of their Chapter rules etc if they include anything outside of their specific codex-subfaction combo that isn't otherwise specifically called out as being ok). They should be paring back bloat in things like strategems and instead give a choice between leveraging the strengths of a combined arms approach to Imperium/Chaos or focus on making the most out of a more specialized force without allies.

At that point the only issue is book costs which again, wasn't an issue until they switched from soft to hard cover and doubled the price of all codexes...


Agreed. The restrictions to units is hamfisted and proof that their own books aren't even internally balanced (in the slightest) and their ally rules punish you a bit too much. Raven Guard don't stop being Raven Guard just because a regiment of Guardsmen is also on the field.

Honestly, they're really close. Losing doctrines for Space Marines, Sacred Rites for Sisters of Battle, things like that? I'm ok with losing those rules in order to ally something. Anything further than that is just kind of disheartening.

But, like I said, rules will change often. Every 3 years at least, it seems. At the very least, GW does seem to want you to be able to play with your toys in as many ways as possible (to encourage you to buy more). There's a conversation over on B&C about people starting Emperor's Children and when the EC Codex eventually drops, it's likely that many of their units wont exist (EC Raptors and such). In an ideal situation, we'd have a more flexible ally system, so you can take those EC Chaos Marines from the regular Chaos Marine Codex, give them a 'choose your own warband' trait that matches your theme, and then ally in the new Emperor's Children stuff as you see fit. It'd be ideal if you could do this with Thousand Sons and Death Guard, and yet instead you get punished for it by having rules stripped away.

Still, complaining about rules being stripped away while also complaining about there being too many rules seems a bit odd to me. Bit of hypocrisy on my part, but I don't apologize for it.

And at the heart of all of this is the fact that the rules and them breaking only really matters at top levels of play. So, at the end of the day, I'll add a detachment of Emperor's Children to my Night Lords with a side of Traitor Guard if I want to.
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

drbored wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
I still expect The Old World as a possible launch next year so they can go 40k-AoS-HH-OW in a cycle so they don't double tap on any crowds.

Then again that might just be what the plan was before Covid happened.


With 40k 10th (unofficially) slated for next year, I don't see how it *could* be TOW. A big launch like I would expect for TOW is a once per year release slot, I don't see how TOW and 10th can happen in the same year, so either TOW is delayed or 10th is delayed or next year works out to be expensive.

I'm saying I expect TOW instead of 10th. I know the community expects 10th because it's the end of the 3 year cycle, but I'm hoping by putting a 4th major game in the mix all the games end up on 4 year cycles instead.


I've got mixed feelings on this sort of thing. On the one hand: it gives 9th a longer lifespan, but there are some really key issues with 9th. On the other hand, The Old World is going to be a forgeworld release. I see it sprinkled in among other things the same way the Middle Earth Strategy Game is. There may be an initial big hubbalaboo about it in the first months of its release, but after that? Who knows? I don't see it interrupting the current cycle of AoS, 40k, 30k and keeping things on a 3 year cycle.

Horus Heresy is a FW release as well, so I fail to see an issue.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





It was mentioned earlier that Haarken Worldclaimer might be the only playable jump lord in the new codex. I honestly would not be that upset if it was made into the new official jump Lord model, with the rules to be able to convert on different weapons. I'm not sure if too many fans are that attached to the actual character himself for anyone to be to upset at his loss in the rules.
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





 ArcaneHorror wrote:
It was mentioned earlier that Haarken Worldclaimer might be the only playable jump lord in the new codex. I honestly would not be that upset if it was made into the new official jump Lord model, with the rules to be able to convert on different weapons. I'm not sure if too many fans are that attached to the actual character himself for anyone to be to upset at his loss in the rules.


Convert? Different weapons? That's heresy for gw.

2022 painted/bought: 307/419 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

TOW next year is tricky, we know it takes them ~3-4 years for a new model line (from design to release) with a pandemic between

I doubt that there will be a release without a starter set and going with 2 exiting model lines of old fantasy models won't be received well
not even talking about that it would have been not enough time to get the rules done and tested for all the factions

Another point is that releasing 2 Specialist Games in a row does not really fit their marketing model
there are 3 main games at the moment, HorusHeresy is now kind of the 4th and TOW would be the 5th
I rather expect another big LotR release timed with the new show that goes in between SG releases instead of 10th 40k (if GW gets the rights and want to invest into it)

10th Edition would be much easier and also less risky
One can just hope it is a soft reset and the new CSM book survives the edition change

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
 
Forum Index » News & Rumors
Go to: