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Think we have a final edition here. I'm not terribly happy with it, but don't have time to build rokkit-buggies and stick them in.

Current Iteration:

1,850

HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka
HQ: Big Mek with Kustom Force Field

Troop1: 17 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole (in battlewagon)
Troop2: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank/Big Shoota
Troop3: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank/Big Shoota
Troop4: 10 Gretchin + Runtherder

Elite1: 15 Burna Boyz (In Wagon with Ghazghkull)
Elite2: 15 Lootas
Elite3: 15 Lootas

Fast Attack1: Deffkopta with twin-linked rokkits and buzzsaw
Fast Attack2: Deffkopta with twin-linked rokkits and buzzsaw

Heavy1: Battlewagon/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Planks/Grabbin' Klaw/Big Shoota/Armor Plates
Heavy2: Battlewagon/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Planks/Grabbin' Klaw/Big Shoota/Armor Plates

Looking better, but I don't see the 5 man loota squads doing much unless they get 15 shots.

Plus there really easy to kill, with lootas, deployment is everything. I'd either combine them into one 10 man squad or get more of them.


As with before, just try them out and see how it goes.

Of all your options given, i'd get more lootas. 20 at least should suffice if can get them in. They are the best unit to take care of your weaknesses(DE,IG,Mechdar,etc.)

I would say two units of five might be a good thing, just because if one gets killed off there's still another. However, it would be best to have more. I do agree that they would help you against armies that have alot of Mechy goodness... and it's always best to have the most dakka you can get.

I dont know man, I am shelving my orks till the new codex. I mean look at the nids, they are insane now. I think orks need an update. I say this becuase every time i have played orks, I roll mech list and roll them on turn 3. Sure the Mech list means you wont get tabled, but if you cant get into melee combat with those boyz its over man. I mean done.

I have played a close version of the list you have posted and still have the major problem with mechanized I G and Mech marines. Mostly IG cuase of all the high str and blast templates. It is possible to win, but when its up to whether you get the initiative roll at the beginning of the game as to whether you will win or not I say its time for a change.

I still roll people all day long with the mech tau list so...

Ghazghkull Thraka
Big Mek w/ KFF

15 Burna Boyz
15 Lootas
15 Lootas

17 Ork Boyz w/ nob, klaw, pole
20 Ork Boyz w/ nob, klaw, pole
12 Ork Boyz w/ nob, klaw, pole
(1 Trukk w/ reinforced ram, boarding plank)

Burna Battlewagon w/ shoota, ram, rpj, and klaw
Thraka's Battlewagon w/ shoota, ram, plank, and klaw
Troop Battlewagon w/ shoota, ram, plank, and klaw

Total Army Cost 1774

By my counts, that's given you 46 boyz, the equivalent of 5 klaws hitting the opponent (Thraka is more or less two klaws instead of 1 with all those attacks), and maxed out elite choices, still leaving you enough room to take one of those wretched kopta if you wanted to by shaving the cost of one of the ladz to make room for it.

I've gone wagon heavy instead of trukk heavy, as the 14 pretty effectively stops the missile spam, and even over half-range meltas, which anti-mech armies are loaded with. Yes, you can still blow be taken out by strength 8, but with rokkits, it's 1/72 chance per successful hit, and meltas its 1/36 per successful hit as long as you aren't at close range. You've frowned on the wagon over trukk suggestions I've made before, but it is the most likely method to get all of your boyz there in one piece.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And to illustrate my point, the long fangs the SW army laid on you would on average destroy a truck and a half per turn. Given that everything is wrapped up in rhinos preventing T2 assault, that means you are down 3 trukks by the time you get to assault, and have likely taken considerable casualties on those groups or lost them entirely. Those same rokkits would need to fire for 5 consecutive turns to take out 1 wagon, statistically.

I'm assuming he drop podded the combi-meltas for your burna wagon, and there's not much you can do about that except hope he scatters. Or kill him as revenge for the outrage and steal another wagon...

The key to winning with orks in the current meta is ranged tank kill. I believe I've said it before. I'm repeating it again.

If you do not have this you will lose against good lists. Period. Assaulting vehicles with PK on foot is fail because right after you blow up that rhino/chimera/whatever you will get crushed. This is assuming you even get to where you need to go.

If you do not weaken your opponent's fire support immediately then he will demolish all of your closing vehicles before they even reach their destinations. So you too must have fire support to cover your closing horde / speed freaks / whatever

Here are successful units for me:

Lootas (5 or 15)
Big Gunz Kannons (3 with ammo runts)
Battlewagons with 3-4 Rockitts and a Kannon
Deffkoptas with TL Rockitts and Buzzsaws
Buggies with TL Rockitts (3)
Killa Kans with Rockitts (3)

I have used all of the above units in successful lists to back up my Boyz or Nobz units. If I can take rockitts on something I do so. Lootas are the best unit in the codex because they torch light vehicles which are a major problem for Orks. Use them. I bring at least 20, sometimes 30 or even 35 or 45.

The start is simple: Pop all your opponents vehicles with fire support. Kill the most threatening thing first. Shoot the units that fall out if there are remaining infantry. If they destroy your vehicle or you're on foot already assault them. Win the game.

Deffkoptas are sometimes fail and sometimes crucial. Your opponent can't bubble wrap everything. If he does I take the easiest target. At worst I pop a dedicated transport and trade the unit and kill point. At best I do that and draw fire and maybe get a second one.

Carnuss wrote:Ghazghkull Thraka
Big Mek w/ KFF

15 Burna Boyz
15 Lootas
15 Lootas

17 Ork Boyz w/ nob, klaw, pole
20 Ork Boyz w/ nob, klaw, pole
12 Ork Boyz w/ nob, klaw, pole
(1 Trukk w/ reinforced ram, boarding plank)

Burna Battlewagon w/ shoota, ram, rpj, and klaw
Thraka's Battlewagon w/ shoota, ram, plank, and klaw
Troop Battlewagon w/ shoota, ram, plank, and klaw

Total Army Cost 1774

By my counts, that's given you 46 boyz, the equivalent of 5 klaws hitting the opponent (Thraka is more or less two klaws instead of 1 with all those attacks), and maxed out elite choices, still leaving you enough room to take one of those wretched kopta if you wanted to by shaving the cost of one of the ladz to make room for it.

I've gone wagon heavy instead of trukk heavy, as the 14 pretty effectively stops the missile spam, and even over half-range meltas, which anti-mech armies are loaded with. Yes, you can still blow be taken out by strength 8, but with rokkits, it's 1/72 chance per successful hit, and meltas its 1/36 per successful hit as long as you aren't at close range. You've frowned on the wagon over trukk suggestions I've made before, but it is the most likely method to get all of your boyz there in one piece.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And to illustrate my point, the long fangs the SW army laid on you would on average destroy a truck and a half per turn. Given that everything is wrapped up in rhinos preventing T2 assault, that means you are down 3 trukks by the time you get to assault, and have likely taken considerable casualties on those groups or lost them entirely. Those same rokkits would need to fire for 5 consecutive turns to take out 1 wagon, statistically.

I'm assuming he drop podded the combi-meltas for your burna wagon, and there's not much you can do about that except hope he scatters. Or kill him as revenge for the outrage and steal another wagon...

That looks about right to me.

Lootas AND Burnas, my two favorite Ork units in one list. Its about time!

30 Lootas will deal serious damage to anyone.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gold tooth Jerry wrote:I dont know man, I am shelving my orks till the new codex. I mean look at the nids, they are insane now. I think orks need an update. I say this becuase every time i have played orks, I roll mech list and roll them on turn 3. Sure the Mech list means you wont get tabled, but if you cant get into melee combat with those boyz its over man. I mean done.

I have played a close version of the list you have posted and still have the major problem with mechanized I G and Mech marines. Mostly IG cuase of all the high str and blast templates. It is possible to win, but when its up to whether you get the initiative roll at the beginning of the game as to whether you will win or not I say its time for a change.

I still roll people all day long with the mech tau list so...

Umm, yeah... Orks aren't getting an update anytime soon, and they don't need it that much, despite what a few people may believe, I think there fine, its just a matter of when the Ork players start using the codex properly. Most of the Ork lists I see have a random mix of units and still do ok. Imagine if they started taking all the stuff we've been dicussing here.

Kevin Nash wrote:
Lootas (5 or 15)
Big Gunz Kannons (3 with ammo runts)
Battlewagons with 3-4 Rockitts and a Kannon
Deffkoptas with TL Rockitts and Buzzsaws
Buggies with TL Rockitts (3)
Killa Kans with Rockitts (3)

Lootas you've sold me on.

Bug Gunz Kannons....I haven't any, so out of the question for the GT; I don't think I'd like using them much.
Battlewagons with 3-4 rokkits and a kannon....while this seems like the most obvious choice...my problem is that if I move the wagons, I'm not shooting the rokkits. And if I'm not going to be shooting the rokkits, I might as well stand still. And if I do that...I'm not mechanized assault anymore, and I can't afford to sit at range and trade long-ranged firefights.

You didn't mention tank-bustas?

Deffkoptas with TL Rokkits and buzzsaws; I agree.

Buggies with TL Rokkits - I have none. I think having them would be an attractive addition to the KFF; more vehicles to get cover saves. As is, I don't plan on converting any before the GT.

Killa Kans with Rokkits: It seems like the Grotzooka is just such an awesome weapon though. Giving it up for rokkits?

Just out of curiosity, what specifically went wrong in the IG and Space Wolves games? On the flip side, what went right? What types of armour were giving you problems, AV10-12 or AV13+?

Lootas are a fairly obvious answer that people have suggested, how about 2 squads of 12 inside Trukks? That gives you a fair amount of flexibility in your targeting and keeps up your armour saturation. Depending on the terrain, you could even deploy the Lootas on a hill/in ruins and run the Trukk separately as mobile cover for the rest of your force.
The downside of 12 models of course is that with poor rolling one Explosion could Pin them or send them running, but Trukks come with a measure of protection from destroyed results (Kerrunch, S3 explosions) so that shouldn't happen too often. Food for thought.

IMO, Tank Bustas have that one little problem that their hand is forced sometimes in potentially inconvenient situations. I am trying to fit them into a list myself, but just the thought of not having that critical choice hurts.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Kevin Nash wrote:
Lootas (5 or 15)
Big Gunz Kannons (3 with ammo runts)
Battlewagons with 3-4 Rockitts and a Kannon
Deffkoptas with TL Rockitts and Buzzsaws
Buggies with TL Rockitts (3)
Killa Kans with Rockitts (3)

Lootas you've sold me on.

Bug Gunz Kannons....I haven't any, so out of the question for the GT; I don't think I'd like using them much.

Battlewagons with 3-4 rokkits and a kannon

....while this seems like the most obvious choice...my problem is that if I move the wagons, I'm not shooting the rokkits. And if I'm not going to be shooting the rokkits, I might as well stand still. And if I do that...I'm not mechanized assault anymore, and I can't afford to sit at range and trade long-ranged firefights.

You can though. Orks can shoot with almost every army out there or at the very least trade fire long enough to soften them up prior to an assault.

You don't want to mechanized assault into short range melta fire you're going to get wrecked. The correct move is to get to 24" and blow up all the nearby vehicles. If they have the audacity to come to you to get into melta range you blow up their vehicle and dump 40 shoota shots into their infantry. If appropriate you can start assaulting people for mop up duty. But usually not before.

People seem to think that playing orks implies recklessly charging forward and getting into assault as quickly as possible. Against good lists you're charging cavalry into pikemen. It doesn't work. You have to shoot into your opponents first before getting in their face and neutralize their fire support so you have enough time to do that.

You didn't mention tank-bustas?

I don't hate the idea but they share FO with lootas. I prefer Lootas because they aren't vehicle dependent.

Deffkoptas with TL Rokkits and buzzsaws; I agree.

Buggies with TL Rokkits - I have none. I think having them would be an attractive addition to the KFF; more vehicles to get cover saves. As is, I don't plan on converting any before the GT.

Killa Kans with Rokkits: It seems like the Grotzooka is just such an awesome weapon though. Giving it up for rokkits?

I think either can work. I prefer the strength 8 shot into chimera chassis.

As a quick fix to your current list I'd recommend upping the loota count significantly. Maybe cut the burna boyz to 5 and bump a loota unit to 15. I'd also run shoota boyz in the wagon over slugga boyz. They are actually more effective shooting out of the wagon than assaulting out of it since assaulting is usually a one and done before dying the following round where you can continue to shoot over and over again until they are forced to respect the wagon. Once they've destroyed it. Then you assault.

Batrep?

But yeah... two 5-man Loota Squads don't scare me. Two dead Orks and that's a leadership check... buh bye. Mind you, with your trucks/BWs of doom, they might not get too much attention, but I wouldn't count on it.

That's an interesting point about just shooting out of the wagon. Generally in Mech on Mech, the first one out of their transport loses, so it's something to keep in mind.

Short batrep:

HQ

Rune Priest-105
Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane, Melta Bomb

Rune Priest-100
Living Lightning, JotWW

Elite

Lone Wolf-85
Termi-Armor, Chainfist, Storm Shield

Lone Wolf-85
Termi-Armor, Chainfist, Storm Shield

Wolf Guard-235
1xWG in PA w/Fist, Combi-Melta
1xWG in PA w/Fist, Combi-Flamer
3xWG w/Combi-Meltas
Drop Pod

Troop

8 Grey Hunters-175
MotW, Melta, Rhino


8 Grey Hunters-175
MotW, Melta, Rhino

5 Grey Hunters-120
Melta, Razorback


5 Grey Hunters-115
Flamer, Razorback

Heavy Support

6 Long Fangs-215
5xMissile Launchers, Razorback w/ Assault Cannon

6 Long Fangs-215
5xMissile Launchers, Razorback w/Assault Cannon

6 Long Fangs-215
5xMissile Launchers, Razorback w/Assault Cannon

1xWG Terminator w/Combi Melta and Chainfist (in with other wolfguard)
-----------------------------------------------

Spearhead, killpoints. I got first turn.

Turn1: I jumped 12" ahead, and dropped both wagons behind impassible terrain in the middle, trukks on both sides. Deffkoptas turbo-boosted up the field and dropped into assault with both longfang squads. Opponent turn1 he deep-strikes the drop pod, a terminator/chainfist guy and 3 meltas behind my KFF wagon, opens up on it, and explodes it. In the ensuing explosion, he loses a single melta guy, and then fails leadership and runs away. He opens two of my trukks, and uses the missile launchers in the third longfang squad to drop 5 templates on one of the disembarked boy squads. They roll amazingly well and don't wipe, also passing leadership. He adds a Lone Wolf to each deffkopta combat, which quickly ends them both.

Turn2: I realize the folly of having a full Ghazghkull wagon, as the KFF can't jump in to protect his wagon and the two remaining trukks. Ghazghkull's wagon and the two remaining trukks skip 12" forward (now 15-18") or so away from the enemy - he didn't deploy along his spearhead line, but stayed back) while the disembarked boys run into trees and try closing on the mech line. The KFF and burna boys flame the fleeing drop pod melta delivery marines a bit, but fail to get into assault. Meanwhile none of my trukks and their rokkits have succeeded in hitting anything. Turn2 wolves: He pops the two remaining trukks, leaves Ghazghkull's wagon alone, pours fire into disembarked boys....

At this point, even if I could get up to his lines with a turn3 Waaaugh! with my surviving units, I'd be trying to open rhinos and razorbacks before getting murdered by flamers, assault cannons, razorback heavy bolters....the list I've been using needs to be able to swing mechanized against mechanized to use boarding planks and grabbin' klaws. I conceded at the end of turn2 because it was already a mop-up operation.

-----------------------------------

As for the IG batrep: Manticores, medusas, collosus...and the ever popular mech-vet where the chimera has a multi-melta/heavy flamer, can shoot 5 guys out of the port, most of which have melta guns....and they outflank....that's what I ran into. =p Leman Russ exterminators with rear armor 11, special tank character vileness, it was brutal. It was objective based and there were four objectives - it ended in a tie mostly because Snikrot killed a leman russ, a chimera, and the explosion killed most of the command squad inside (after which Snikrot assaulted them the next turn) while Snikrot survived unbelievable amounts of fire, the command squad failed 2d6 to get into assault with him through their exploded crater (1,1)...

Boys assaulting took down his leman russes, and Ghazghkull/burnas/boys dealt with two outflanking chimeras and a squad of rough-riders, but I barely squeaked out a tie at turn5.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kevin Nash wrote:



You can though. Orks can shoot with almost every army out there or at the very least trade fire long enough to soften them up prior to an assault.

You don't want to mechanized assault into short range melta fire you're going to get wrecked. The correct move is to get to 24" and blow up all the nearby vehicles. If they have the audacity to come to you to get into melta range you blow up their vehicle and dump 40 shoota shots into their infantry. If appropriate you can start assaulting people for mop up duty. But usually not before.

*ponders*

I've done some revision....I'm at 1,818 now. I dropped a boy squad and pared down Ghazghkull's boy squad to flesh out Lootas, and add rokkits everywhere, as well as a killa-kan. I dropped two deffkoptas. I put rokkits back on the trukks too. I can't put shoota boys into the battlewagon; I don't have any painted, and will need the next couple weeks to assemble/paint the Lootas. Part of dropping a boy squad was that adding a killa-kan (and its footprint) into a list already clumped up to benefit from the KFF makes the footprint a bit too big.

Thoughts from the community at large on these changes? I guess against mechanized lists, my turn1 is going to involve sitting at my pitched battle/spearhead deployment line and releasing rokkits and Lootas? Completely different playstyle than my usual sprint for the assault.

1,818

HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka
HQ: Big Mek with Kustom Force Field

Troop1: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw (In battlewagon with Ghazghkull)
Troop2: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank/Rokkit Launcha
Troop3: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank/Rokkit Launcha
Troop4: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank/Rokkit Launcha
Troop5: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank/Rokkit Launcha

Elite1: 15 Burna Boyz (In Wagon with KFF)
Elite2: 15 Lootas
Elite3: 5 Lootas

Fast Attack1: Deffkopta with twin-linked rokkits and buzzsaw

Heavy1: Battlewagon/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Planks/Grabbin' Klaw/4x Rokkit Launchas
Heavy2: Battlewagon/Reforced Ram/Grabbin' Klaw/4x Rokkit Launchas
Heavy3: Killa Kan with Rokkit Launchas


Comments on its current form, the decisions I made, and how I should flesh it out to 1,850 effectively?

I think you should always take a Kannon befor you take the rokkits, because they have 36" range, cost the same and can be fired as a defensive weapon (S4 blast). So 3x Rokkits, 1x Kannon.

Dashofpepper wrote:

For the cost of taking Snikrot out, I can add two squads of 5 Lootas. I've taken all the rokkits off my trukks (as they did nothing in any game I played) and have come to the conclusion that Lootas are probably quite important. I know a lot of folks have said so...and that I've stood defiant because I've done so well locally....but I've been truly humbled lately. =p


HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka + Ammo Runt
HQ: Big Mek with Kustom Force Field

Troop1: 17 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw
Troop2: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank
Troop3: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank
Troop4: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank
Troop5: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank

Elite1: 15 Burna Boyz (In Wagon with KFF)
Elite2: 5 Lootas
Elite3: 5 Lootas

Fast Attack1: Deffkopta with twin-linked rokkits and buzzsaw
Fast Attack2: 2x Deffkoptas with twin-linked rokkits

Heavy1: Battlewagon/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Planks/Grabbin' Klaw/Big Shoota
Heavy2: Battlewagon/Reforced Ram/Grabbin' Klaw/Big Shoota

lol. I've been saying about lootas for the last 6 months and you've turned it down every time. I bet you wish you took the annoying bastards now? I see you've also seen the light about snitrot too....I've read your bat rep and if you took lootas you would have been able to open those transports up, ready for a easy a assault. How your opponent played is how my regular opponent plays, except with guard so mass tanks! Thats why lootas are so invaluable.

List wise, you still need bosspoles man! I cannot stress this enough. You losse 3 orks and your down to ld9 and taking a leadership test as you've lost 25% of your unit. Now, as orks have a crap save it means you'll be loosing probably more than that. Bosspoles are really needed as 7 is the average 2D6 roll which is the leadership a a nob.

I would drop a unit of troops for lootas. You need minimum 10. Just 5 isn't enough to get those 5+ to shoot, especially if you roll unlucky and get a 2 or a 1.

Your deffkopters are easy to prioritse. Kill the one with the buzzsaw first and the others are a mediocre threat because of there ballistic skill. Put the buzzsaw as a unit so you can use wound allocation better and have a just a rokkit one as the single.

I don't think you need grabbin claws. You've got boarding planks so hopefully your power klaw should do the job. Sure your within 2" already to use the claw to stop the enemy vehicle moving, but your still banknig on rolling a 4+ to hold the enemy vehicle in place.

I also wouldn't take a single killa kan. Its a easy target and I think your just filling in points.

Looking better. 15 Lootas are great because the large squad size gives them survivability and even if you roll a 1 or 2, thats 15 shots which can still do some damage.

30-45 will probably destroy it.

And if you do as Nash says, thats 12 rokkits on your vehicles, an average of 4 hits, which has a good chance of destroying a tank.


You can do a massive charge, but you have to fire a ton of rokkits and lootas first, destroying tanks and making your charge all the more devastating,since now you don't have to spend all taht time getting them out of there transports with your planks.

mercer, I've already changed that original army list, although for fairness and ease of reading I just modified my first post to reflect the latest iteration of my list.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
*edit*

Bosspoles...I'm at 1,818 right now without them.

I haven't been taking them because I don't need them in close combat (win or lose) because I'm fearless, and I can strategically place a Waaaugh! if I'm going to be taking a bunch of leadership tests. Getting a trukk shot out from under me and ensuing casualties without the benefit of a Waaaugh....that's their only real use, and bosspoles would be undeniably useful in those situations. I'll have to ponder that.

I have to agree with Mr. Nash about the Shoota's/wagons. I have always been a huge advocate of shoota boyz over sluggas, as they are better in virtually every situation, and they are even better in wagons.

Dashofpepper wrote:

*ponders*

I've done some revision....I'm at 1,818 now. I dropped a boy squad and pared down Ghazghkull's boy squad to flesh out Lootas, and add rokkits everywhere, as well as a killa-kan. I dropped two deffkoptas. I put rokkits back on the trukks too. I can't put shoota boys into the battlewagon; I don't have any painted, and will need the next couple weeks to assemble/paint the Lootas. Part of dropping a boy squad was that adding a killa-kan (and its footprint) into a list already clumped up to benefit from the KFF makes the footprint a bit too big.

Thoughts from the community at large on these changes? I guess against mechanized lists, my turn1 is going to involve sitting at my pitched battle/spearhead deployment line and releasing rokkits and Lootas? Completely different playstyle than my usual sprint for the assault.

I would do that with the wagon but not with the trukks. The reason you don't charge forward with wagons is because short range melta fire hurts you but they are pretty resilient otherwise. Trukks are incredibly fragile at any range and also fast vehicles so you may as well get close as possible if you're going to use them.

You want to move the wagon forward far enough to be able to shoot rockitts at enemy vehicles.

The rush forward with trukk strat should be more successful with fire support because you are now charging into lines that will have been weakened and hopefully not fully mechanized by the time you get there.

Because of this I actually wouldn't bother with rockitts on trukks. Statistically 1 rockitt kinda sucks anyway. The chance of you doing anything with it is poor. Put the points elsewhere.

1,818

HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka
HQ: Big Mek with Kustom Force Field

Troop1: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw (In battlewagon with Ghazghkull)
Troop2: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank/Rokkit Launcha
Troop3: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank/Rokkit Launcha
Troop4: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank/Rokkit Launcha
Troop5: 12 Slugga Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw + Trukk/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Plank/Rokkit Launcha

Elite1: 15 Burna Boyz (In Wagon with KFF)
Elite2: 15 Lootas
Elite3: 5 Lootas

Fast Attack1: Deffkopta with twin-linked rokkits and buzzsaw

Heavy1: Battlewagon/Reinforced Ram/Boarding Planks/Grabbin' Klaw/4x Rokkit Launchas
Heavy2: Battlewagon/Reforced Ram/Grabbin' Klaw/4x Rokkit Launchas
Heavy3: Killa Kan with Rokkit Launchas


Comments on its current form, the decisions I made, and how I should flesh it out to 1,850 effectively?

Make sure you run kannons on the wagons. They are strictly better than Rockitts. Always add the kannons first and then the rockitts.

I'd put ghaz with the burnas and KFF with the boyz so you have Powerklaws in each wagon to use with your boarding planks.

I don't see much point in a solitary killa kan. You need to run them as a full squadron or they aren't great. I'd run a second solitary deffkopta to balance out your reserve rolls here.

Based on the models you have I would do this:

Ghaz
KFF
15 Loota
5 Loota
8 Burna
12 Boyz Nob PK BP Trukk Ram
12 Boyz Nob PK BP Trukk Ram
12 Boyz Nob PK BP Trukk Ram
19 Boyz Nob PK BP
10 Grots Runtherd
Wagon Red Paint, Ram, Plank, Kannon, Rockitt x4
Wagon Red Paint, Ram, Plank, Kannon, Rockitt x4
Deffkopta TL Rockitt Buzzsaw
Deffkopta TL Rockitt Buzzsaw


If you don't own grots go buy a single box. They build and paint up in 2 nights. I use them in a lot of my lists as a cheap objective taker. I just hold them in reserve and have them come in on my side of the table to camp one.

I wonder if you really need the koptas.

Lootas are better anti tank, so why not just get more of them?

Snikkyd wrote:I wonder if you really need the koptas.

Lootas are better anti tank, so why not just get more of them?

Lootas are better for AV 11 and AV 12. Koptas are better for AV 13 and AV 14 (with the exception of Land Raiders and Monoliths).

I have three killa-kans painted and ready to roll - custom made Grotzookas would require a tiny bit of alteration to make them a rokkit-launcha, or I could just say "That's a rokkit launcha" I didn't see how to fit them in.

Dashofpepper wrote:I have three killa-kans painted and ready to roll - custom made Grotzookas would require a tiny bit of alteration to make them a rokkit-launcha, or I could just say "That's a rokkit launcha" I didn't see how to fit them in.

I don't really see how they fit here without dramatically changing your list. I think you need a 2nd deffkopta for balance reasons. If you only run one you're at the mercy of poor reserve rolls.

You could drop the burna's and a wagon and then build out from there. You could also drop another trukk boyz unit but then you're really low on troops so I don't like that either.

I run kanz in my current list but that's because I have boyz on foot and they do a great job of screening them.

Some people run a 3 kan unit as a counter assault unit that they keep next to their lootas which could work for you here but I don't see them as trumping anything else in the current list the way you have it setup.

One thing you might consider to free up a lot of points is dumping Ghaz. He's awesome but you aren't really maximizing his point value since you're nobless.

You could do this from my list:

-1 Ghaz

+3 Kans w Rockitts
+1 Deffkopta buzzsaw and tl rockitt.

Just a thought.

I added a second deffkopta, kept the 5th troop choice out, took out a killa-kan, and cut down 1 burna. The burna + killa kan removal paid for the 70 point deffkopta and adding kannons to the battlewagons.

Kevin, 8 burnas...doesn't feel like enough. This one unit is most important when I face orks or tyranids.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Ghazghkull is the centerpiece of my list *sob* My close combat monster!

8 burnas is still capable of some mighty fine BURNANATION and swings quite a bit of CC power, you should be allright so long as they roll in a wagon.

My problems with the burnas in close combat is this: When they charge, they are I3.

Termagants are I4 or I5.
Genestealers are I4+
Monstrous Creatures are I3-5.
Space Marines are I4.

Those are what I primarily need them for.

With a unit of 8, even assaulting a monstrous creature by itself, I can expect to lose 2-4 boys before I get a chance to swing, and having 4-6 boys swinging back needing 3-4+ to hit and 6+ to wound....I'm lucky to tie combat and even if I do, I'm screwed the next round.

A couple things I've found useful in my mechanized lists have been TL Rokkit warbuggies. Units of 3 are cheap (105 for the unit) and they can move 12" and fire, being fast vehicles. They keep up with the convoy and can be a pest. If they draw enemy fire, cool, they are expendable and it keeps some anti-vehicle fire from the main convoy for a turn. With the KFF and some luck, they can survive for awhile.

I like a battlewagon full of tankbustas, usually 13 in number with a nob with a tankhammer (since he has the extra attack). 12 rokkits per turn on the move (you do have to slow down, but that's ok when you need it) puts the hurt on a lot. Glory Hogs goes away versus non-vehicular armies (Nids, for example) and otherwise, most of the time, I want them plugging vehicles. The only time it has sucked has been when the only vehicle in sight is some wounded rhino and instead of shooting the marine squad, they have to chase the rhino. But I can live with that small occurrence for the mobile firepower.

I usually have just one, full-strength loota squad because I have the burnas, figuring the tankbustas are doing the work of the second loota squad while being available for tankhammer/boarding plank/grabbin' klaw fun.

If I have deffkoptas, it's usually just the one suicide buzzsaw guy who is about 50/50 in payoff.

Also, and perhaps this is sacrilege, but I often don't take Ghaz. Yes, he's awesome, but a warboss half his price is still good and the difference buys more burnas, lootas, the warbuggies, etc. My mech orks are not solely relying on the Ghaz waaagh; I hope that the lootas/burnas/tankbustas/etc. are softening them up before the boyz strike.

Kevin Nash wrote:

Snikkyd wrote:I wonder if you really need the koptas.

Lootas are better anti tank, so why not just get more of them?

Lootas are better for AV 11 and AV 12. Koptas are better for AV 13 and AV 14 (with the exception of Land Raiders and Monoliths).

While that is true, lootas can damage even AV 13. If they put in enough fire, eventually some 6's are going to show up.


Deffkoptas are for charging the back armour.

Dash,

I sympathise with your plight.

The Orc Codex is very mystifying but this whole thread seems to be a case of pursuing a lost cause, there is no "ideal" ork mech list, and if there was, this is't it.

(1) In general ork shooting is so lame that all points spent on rokkits are wasted.

(2) Lootas are overrated.

(3) Battlewagons are more expensive than you realise.

(4) Reading the codex will drive you insane.

The last is the key point. Everyhting looks like it might be useful or even perfect....IF..... If only the terrain is right, the opponent brings the army you think he will, etc etc, or you get to go first etc etc.

Rather then get trapped in this maddening conspiracy of possibilities, you have to return to the math.

And base your army on 3 or 4 squads of 30 boys on foot with their power claws. Get those points on the board and then it doesn't matter what impossible combination or grots nobs, war truckks and cannon, killer kans or HQs you choose to torment your brain with.

End of the day its only the fearless squads of power klaw shields that count, because its ONLY the POWERKLAWS you can reply on in that whole damn codex.

I personally favour a pair or warbosses in mega-armour, each with 3 mega-nobs in trukks as your main fist. 90 Footsloggers with only the powerklaws for substance as your principle argument.

2 (seperate) Zzap Guns with maxed rerolls.

2 Handfulls of lootas (5 each)

2 Coptas

2 KillerKans with grootzookas (and powerKlaws)

All of this can actually do something, since all of it is an ignorable nuisance compared to your main horde.

They give up kill points however in some scenarios.

The codex drives me insane.

The Nid codex was so much easier to plan around. With that you can actually take what you like, and build a unique army and play style.

The damned Orc Codex is evil.

The only reliable thing in it is the standard 6 point ork boy.

Good luck with the army.

The better option is to give the army away and choose one that grants builds without giving migraines.

OTG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To clarify: ORKS SUCK!

First thing is they cant shoot (even lootas). Tedious dice rolling and praying for sixes is lame.

Second: They are mediocre in mellee. Of course they can win mellee with sheer numbers, usually striking last. Low morale and low initiative and poor armour.

The viable list (HORDE) is tedious to move across the board. Even when you win its usually ugly, without tactical imput or thought. You won haha but the games are NOT INTERESTING. Funny sometimes because of dice quirks (12 lootas, 36 shots and you still couldn't kill that rhino, hahaha), but not in a cerebral/tactical sense.

If you make an interesting or themed (NON HORDE) army don't bother showing at a serious tournament. There are too many ways to lose.

And if you do go horde good luck painting all the bastards!

How sweet the SpaceWolf Codex!

How sweet Tyrannids!

The game is so much more interesting when you can player it with fewer, but more reliable pieces.

The whole ork idea is ultimately precisely that...AN ORK.

OTG.

OTG, I can't let that go unanswered. I'll only say this once; if you have difficulty understanding and using the Ork Codex, it is NOT because the Codex is bad. The Codex works great, and is full of units that synchronize well, that do what they're supposed to, and are fairly costed. There are some weaknesses built into the codex, yes, but any COMPETENT Ork player quickly learns to work around them. They are just something you have to accept when playing Orks. I leave it up to the reader to determine what the problem, for OTG, may be.

@Dash; So to make sure I understand;

1. You want a mechanized list, at the end of the day.

2. You want Ghazghkull.

3.Your problems are; being blown apart before you can reach charge range, and not being able to hurt vehicles once you do reach charge range.

Ok, so you want, in general, two things. Things that can take apart vehicles at range, and things that can open up vehicles up close, and have the staying power to absorb the attack of whatever falls out.

For the first; Lootas have been mentioned, kannons have been mentioned, Kans with rokkits have been mentioned. I second all of these, except that instead of rokkits, I would take KMBs on the kans. Gets Hot doesn't affect Kans, and since they're AP2 you can go Terminator-hunting if there are no transports to pop. I will add that kannons are better than you think against AV 12 or lower, and can also double as fairly effective anti-infantry.

For the second; I think what you want is a Nob squad of some kind. You know all about them, of course, but if you're worried about getting slaughtered in CC after opening a transport, a small Nobz or MANZ unit can hold their own quite effectively, even when charged. MANZ are the cheaper option, and also get you a lovely 2+ save; 4 or 5 of them with kombi-rokkits can easily drop out of a speeding Trukk, blow a Rhino and crush whatever was inside into paste, or hit a transport with 20 S9 PK attacks and weather the ensuing charge if their shooting goes awry. A diversified Nobz squad, on the other hand, gets you WS5 and the option for S7 I4 attacks on the charge, which are quite nice and will still wound MEQs on a 2+. The third option, Nob Bikers, can also make for a very good can-opening unit, especially since they can turbo-boost around a flank and get lots of S5 hits on rear armor, then clean up the infantry.