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The problem with Orks, is that they take a lot more skill to play than people think, and then they fail with them.

Recklessly charging the foe and hoping for the best isn't really what Orks are supposed to do, despite what people think. They take more finesse(kinda) but are very good when used properly.


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BeRzErKeR wrote:OTG, I can't let that go unanswered. I'll only say this once; if you have difficulty understanding and using the Ork Codex, it is NOT because the Codex is bad. The Codex works great, and is full of units that synchronize well, that do what they're supposed to, and are fairly costed. There are some weaknesses built into the codex, yes, but any COMPETENT Ork player quickly learns to work around them. They are just something you have to accept when playing Orks. I leave it up to the reader to determine what the problem, for OTG, may be.

@Dash; So to make sure I understand;

1. You want a mechanized list, at the end of the day.

2. You want Ghazghkull.

3.Your problems are; being blown apart before you can reach charge range, and not being able to hurt vehicles once you do reach charge range.

Ok, so you want, in general, two things. Things that can take apart vehicles at range, and things that can open up vehicles up close, and have the staying power to absorb the attack of whatever falls out.

For the first; Lootas have been mentioned, kannons have been mentioned, Kans with rokkits have been mentioned. I second all of these, except that instead of rokkits, I would take KMBs on the kans. Gets Hot doesn't affect Kans, and since they're AP2 you can go Terminator-hunting if there are no transports to pop. I will add that kannons are better than you think against AV 12 or lower, and can also double as fairly effective anti-infantry.

For the second; I think what you want is a Nob squad of some kind. You know all about them, of course, but if you're worried about getting slaughtered in CC after opening a transport, a small Nobz or MANZ unit can hold their own quite effectively, even when charged. MANZ are the cheaper option, and also get you a lovely 2+ save; 4 or 5 of them with kombi-rokkits can easily drop out of a speeding Trukk, blow a Rhino and crush whatever was inside into paste, or hit a transport with 20 S9 PK attacks and weather the ensuing charge if their shooting goes awry. A diversified Nobz squad, on the other hand, gets you WS5 and the option for S7 I4 attacks on the charge, which are quite nice and will still wound MEQs on a 2+. The third option, Nob Bikers, can also make for a very good can-opening unit, especially since they can turbo-boost around a flank and get lots of S5 hits on rear armor, then clean up the infantry.

I second this.

Aren't you kind of trolling OTG? The point of this thread is to help Dash make his list better, not point out whats been said a thousand times.

Personally I think that the Orks strengths make up for their obvious weaknesses to the point of balancing out. Its like how in 4th editon, when the Orks actually were bad, the Ork players didn't care, and kept on playing them to the best of there abilities. It's not just the army, it's the player.

IMO...

Think volume of fire!

Lootas are NOT overated. I think you know this now, hopefully.

BS 2 Rockits may seem like a bad choice, but as mentioned above its all about volume of fire.

Orks are great at assault, but shooting is vital to ork competitiveness.

Ghazgull is great, but it all depends on how what point range you play at... 1750+ for sure, and even at 1750 he is a large point commitment.

Their are options for running non-mechanized... see dual KFF Kan Wall supported lists as an example. Mechanized is good, but realize that trucks are not reliable, so you need a back up plan if running trucks

I am not an ork expert by any means, but I play against Orks a lot... I am one of Kevin Nashs regular opponents

I am experiementing wiht bike based lists now, basically a fusion of nob bikers/ warbiker fusion list and see if anything viable can come of that... I have my doubts but I am going to investigate. I have a dual non biker list already and it can wreck shop but has severe IG weaknesses so I am looking at other options.

I just got back from Florida - I drove 7 hours down and 7 hours back Friday and Sunday to get in a full day of gaming on Saturday with my new list. I played against the new tyranids twice and against chaos marines twice. A few things I noted.

1. Never doubted that Lootas were useful, I just chose not to use them in a mechanized list. They did a good job opening up the rhinos (or at least stun/shaking them) - my unit of five Lootas got 3 shots apiece one game, and 5 penetrating hits out of 15 shots. Against the Tyranids, I used them to pump wounds into zoanthropes, hive guard, and tervigons.

2. Currently, I have 4 rokkits and a kannon on each wagon, and 3 more rokkits between my trukks. Against the chaos player, I sat in my deployment zone unmoving and dropped rokkits, kannons, and Lootas into his rhinos. I feel dumb moving up the table because I paid all those points for those weapons. Against the tyranid player, I felt even more helpless. Dumping boys out of trukks to assault ANYTHING seemed suicidal - gants have better initiative, 11 boys and a Nob probably can't drop a 6 wound MC in one round of combat, which leaves only Ghazghkull on the Waaaugh! as a good combat option. I ended up sitting in my deployment zone dropping rokkits and kannons into his MCs, discovering that rokkits instagib warriors hilariously, and basically playing a gunline with 4 units (2x Lootas, 2x wagons) while the rest of my army sat there and watched. Turn4+, my trukks zoomed across the field to grab objectives.

3. Deffkoptas: I have two of them now, with rokkits and buzzsaws. I see their utility in opening up a transport, but at best...each is cracking open a 35-50 point transport to kill its contents before getting melta in the face - but there's a value to taking away enemy mobility and spilling them out to make them assaultable as well.

Ultimately, I won each game, but felt like I was playing a gunline...and the units I have present only half a gunline, if even that; and Ghazghkull is beginning to feel more wasted.

I think that the rokkits need to come off the trukks. I can't expect much for single shot BS2...and I don't get much. I think I need to fiddle around with the idea of tank-bustas - perhaps tank-bustas in the second wagon instead of a boy squad, and cutting down one more troop choice. ><

I guess I'm feeling even more uncomfortable with my list because I've shifted from mechanized assault to 3/4 mechanized...shooting. I'm feeling more lost than ever. ><

Dashofpepper wrote:I just got back from Florida - I drove 7 hours down and 7 hours back Friday and Sunday to get in a full day of gaming on Saturday with my new list. I played against the new tyranids twice and against chaos marines twice. A few things I noted.

1. Never doubted that Lootas were useful, I just chose not to use them in a mechanized list. They did a good job opening up the rhinos (or at least stun/shaking them) - my unit of five Lootas got 3 shots apiece one game, and 5 penetrating hits out of 15 shots. Against the Tyranids, I used them to pump wounds into zoanthropes, hive guard, and tervigons.

2. Currently, I have 4 rokkits and a kannon on each wagon, and 3 more rokkits between my trukks. Against the chaos player, I sat in my deployment zone unmoving and dropped rokkits, kannons, and Lootas into his rhinos. I feel dumb moving up the table because I paid all those points for those weapons. Against the tyranid player, I felt even more helpless. Dumping boys out of trukks to assault ANYTHING seemed suicidal - gants have better initiative, 11 boys and a Nob probably can't drop a 6 wound MC in one round of combat, which leaves only Ghazghkull on the Waaaugh! as a good combat option. I ended up sitting in my deployment zone dropping rokkits and kannons into his MCs, discovering that rokkits instagib warriors hilariously, and basically playing a gunline with 4 units (2x Lootas, 2x wagons) while the rest of my army sat there and watched. Turn4+, my trukks zoomed across the field to grab objectives.

Yeah sounds like you're coming to the conclusion I did a while ago that a) sometimes orks need to be the shooty army instead of the one who wants to assault and b) they are pretty damn good at it if you build your list correctly.

3. Deffkoptas: I have two of them now, with rokkits and buzzsaws. I see their utility in opening up a transport, but at best...each is cracking open a 35-50 point transport to kill its contents before getting melta in the face - but there's a value to taking away enemy mobility and spilling them out to make them assaultable as well.

Cracking a dedicated transport is better than nothing. They really shine when they blow up 150+ point Leman Russes or Basilisk variants.

Ultimately, I won each game, but felt like I was playing a gunline...and the units I have present only half a gunline, if even that; and Ghazghkull is beginning to feel more wasted.

I think that the rokkits need to come off the trukks. I can't expect much for single shot BS2...and I don't get much. I think I need to fiddle around with the idea of tank-bustas - perhaps tank-bustas in the second wagon instead of a boy squad, and cutting down one more troop choice. ><

I guess I'm feeling even more uncomfortable with my list because I've shifted from mechanized assault to 3/4 mechanized...shooting. I'm feeling more lost than ever. ><

Yeah I'd dump the rockitts on the trukks as well. BS2 rockitts aren't bad when you are shooting 4-5 of them. Kinda lame if you only have 1, especially on a vehicle that really is only useful as a delivery mechanism. I wouldn't bother.

I think you're on the right track here. I haven't really found tankbustas to be any more necessary than lootas. Although a tankhammer off a boarding plank does sound pretty effective. I'd stick with what is good in the codex and go from there: Lootas, Wagons with Rockitts, Deffkoptas with Rockitts and Buzzsaws, Ghazghull, KFF, Boyz. Once you're confident with that core start building from there.

Dashofpepper wrote:1. Never doubted that Lootas were useful, I just chose not to use them in a mechanized list. They did a good job opening up the rhinos (or at least stun/shaking them) - my unit of five Lootas got 3 shots apiece one game, and 5 penetrating hits out of 15 shots. Against the Tyranids, I used them to pump wounds into zoanthropes, hive guard, and tervigons.

2. Currently, I have 4 rokkits and a kannon on each wagon, and 3 more rokkits between my trukks. Against the chaos player, I sat in my deployment zone unmoving and dropped rokkits, kannons, and Lootas into his rhinos. I feel dumb moving up the table because I paid all those points for those weapons. Against the tyranid player, I felt even more helpless. Dumping boys out of trukks to assault ANYTHING seemed suicidal - gants have better initiative, 11 boys and a Nob probably can't drop a 6 wound MC in one round of combat, which leaves only Ghazghkull on the Waaaugh! as a good combat option. I ended up sitting in my deployment zone dropping rokkits and kannons into his MCs, discovering that rokkits instagib warriors hilariously, and basically playing a gunline with 4 units (2x Lootas, 2x wagons) while the rest of my army sat there and watched. Turn4+, my trukks zoomed across the field to grab objectives.

3. Deffkoptas: I have two of them now, with rokkits and buzzsaws. I see their utility in opening up a transport, but at best...each is cracking open a 35-50 point transport to kill its contents before getting melta in the face - but there's a value to taking away enemy mobility and spilling them out to make them assaultable as well.

Ultimately, I won each game, but felt like I was playing a gunline...and the units I have present only half a gunline, if even that; and Ghazghkull is beginning to feel more wasted.

I think that the rokkits need to come off the trukks. I can't expect much for single shot BS2...and I don't get much. I think I need to fiddle around with the idea of tank-bustas - perhaps tank-bustas in the second wagon instead of a boy squad, and cutting down one more troop choice. ><

I guess I'm feeling even more uncomfortable with my list because I've shifted from mechanized assault to 3/4 mechanized...shooting. I'm feeling more lost than ever. ><

At last! And I shall shout down Hallelujah from the Heavens now that Dash is finally taking note and sense!!!

Reasons are; you found lootas useful for cracking tanks and anti infantry. As I previously mentioned, I have being saying this over and over the last 6 months...

Deffkopters I'm glad you finally see a use for them, especially in multiples.

Rokkits on wagons I tried and failed. I could have told you that if I had internet access over the weekend....I probably wouldn't take a kannon either, unless lootas were inside. Though I personaly use my wagons for pure transports so just a big shoota, boarding plank and probably a reinforced ram if I can.

Sometimes you just have to see "the light" and try something new, and in this case it works . You'll find your feet in time. Its just your using different tactics instead of charging forward like a hooligan. Now your playing it at range, something which some people would not expect with orks. See my tactics are simple; crack the transports with the lootas (or tackle monstrous creatures) blow stuff up with rokkits and assault assault assault. Though, I have dropped rokkits and gone for boarding planks as getting out the transport is a big risk.

My latest iteration of 1850:

I dropped a Deffkopta and the troops choice inside the battlewagon, and the unit of 5 Lootas, and replaced them with 15 tank bustas and 3 bomb squigs.

HQ: Ghazghkull
HQ: KFF Mek

Troop1: 12 boyz/trukk/etc
Troop2: Same
Troop3: Same

Elite1: 15 burnas
Elite2: 15 Lootas
Elite3: 15 Tankbustas

Fast1: Deffkopta/Rokkits/buzzsaw

Heavy1: Battlewagon/4 rokkits/kannon/klaw/plank/ram
Heavy2: Same


I'm wary of having one less troop choice (started with five, down to three), but since I'm sitting still anyway, or rolling up 6-12" on turn1 for some turn2 rokkit fire anyway, I'll be hiding those trukks behind my battlewagons until turn3-5. My Waaaugh! will be delayed.

And interestingly....I'm going to have to be *very* careful about where I model rokkits onto the battlewagons. Even in a pitched battle, if I deploy at the 24" line, and my opponent deploys at the 24" line...I'm not in range to shoot the rokkits if they're back on the hull or on the side.

Mount a rack of rokkits on the cab roof

SO you've got 3 x 12 boyz in trukks for troops?

And then 2 wagons with ranged fire for a close ranged unit like burnas?

Just edited my first post to reflect changes:

both wagons are 24" rokkit platforms, one has tankbustas in it, the other has burnas in it.

I think the list has got worse Dash, sorry :(

You've got from a fair number of boyz down to 36. Not a lot. Especially seems they're in trukks. Ok I read your plan and your going to hide them back, great but thats not a lot of troops numbers with a 6+ save. This is more of a counter attack tactic rather than zooming forward and clobbering.

Burnas are ok. Lootas are ok but you need 2 units. See you've got these wagons which won't be moving more than 6" in order to fire. So I can leave the burnas for the time being and the tank bustas and shoot the lootas, or kill the tank bustas wagon so they're out in the open and kill them. I believe in multiple threat and unit redundancy in list building and your elites definately have a lack of redundnancy - once those lootas are gone then thats it, ranged fire power gone and only rokkits left.

One deffkopter won't last long. I would add more or droop it altogether.

Disclaimer: I've never tried rokkitwagons.

Seems like a really bad idea. Wagon can move 6" at most if you want to utilize those 40 points you spent, and even then you can only reliably count on 1 hit. Even with two wagons doing this you've got maybe 3 str 8 hits if they both go at the same vehicle. On AV 12 you've got a pen and a glance for 80 points and severely limited mobility on your end.

I'd drop those rokkits, forget this weird wagon gunline idea and go back to how the Orks are meant to blow up vehicles: Lootas, Planks and PKs, and Tankbustas. I'm not saying this idea won't work for you, it just seems like a very roundabout and expensive way to use rokkits.

I personally don't care for tankbustas, but I've seen them used well in a trukk or BW. Keep them if you want, if it were me I'd make them a squad of lootas.

If you are going to stay with this strategy, drop Ghaz and make him a regular Warboss. Sounds like you're hanging back most of the game anyway so you really only need one turn of waagh! With the extra points you can get more boyz too.

This is certainly a different list, and I can see it working, but I really don't think its that strong. Along with replacing ghazzy with a normal boss and boyz I would trim down the tankbusta and burna squads and turn them into a second squad of lootas. Lootas work best in twos, and usually die when you only have 1 squad.

More power to you for trying to invent a new Ork list, and you have peaked my interest in dusting off my old tankbustas, but I don't think you'll be very happy with your army as it is now.

Dashofpepper wrote:My latest iteration of 1850:

I dropped a Deffkopta and the troops choice inside the battlewagon, and the unit of 5 Lootas, and replaced them with 15 tank bustas and 3 bomb squigs.

HQ: Ghazghkull
HQ: KFF Mek

Troop1: 12 boyz/trukk/etc
Troop2: Same
Troop3: Same

I don't like trukk boyz but I think 3 is way too few troops for a 2000 point game.

Elite1: 15 burnas
Elite2: 15 Lootas
Elite3: 15 Tankbustas

I think these are all decent but I think I prefer redundant lootas. One primary benefit is that lootas you can deploy outside a wagon and then use a wagon for a troop choice.

Fast1: Deffkopta/Rokkits/buzzsaw

I'd run at least 2 of these for reasons I've posted earlier in the thread.

Heavy1: Battlewagon/4 rokkits/kannon/klaw/plank/ram
Heavy2: Same




I'm wary of having one less troop choice (started with five, down to three), but since I'm sitting still anyway, or rolling up 6-12" on turn1 for some turn2 rokkit fire anyway, I'll be hiding those trukks behind my battlewagons until turn3-5. My Waaaugh! will be delayed.

And interestingly....I'm going to have to be *very* careful about where I model rokkits onto the battlewagons. Even in a pitched battle, if I deploy at the 24" line, and my opponent deploys at the 24" line...I'm not in range to shoot the rokkits if they're back on the hull or on the side.

I'd drop a trukk boy unit and replace it with 2 20 man boyz units and a gretchin unit. Then add a third wagon. Put the 2 20 man boyz in the 2 wagons and the burnas in the third. Put ghaz with the burnas and the KFF with one of the 20 (19) man boyz units.

Do a 15/5 loota config on the ground. Keep 2 deffkoptas.

I'd also get some test games in against Drop Pod Marines and Chaos Daemons before switching up too much too, I think you have fixed a lot of the "my enemy is on hte other side of the board" issues, but now you need to fight hte in your face shooting/meltas and the in your face assault army to see how you might need to adjust and help detemrined if Ghazgull is worth it.

Dashofpepper wrote:My latest iteration of 1850:

I dropped a Deffkopta and the troops choice inside the battlewagon, and the unit of 5 Lootas, and replaced them with 15 tank bustas and 3 bomb squigs.

HQ: Ghazghkull
HQ: KFF Mek

Troop1: 12 boyz/trukk/etc
Troop2: Same
Troop3: Same

Elite1: 15 burnas
Elite2: 15 Lootas
Elite3: 15 Tankbustas

Fast1: Deffkopta/Rokkits/buzzsaw

Heavy1: Battlewagon/4 rokkits/kannon/klaw/plank/ram
Heavy2: Same


I'm wary of having one less troop choice (started with five, down to three), but since I'm sitting still anyway, or rolling up 6-12" on turn1 for some turn2 rokkit fire anyway, I'll be hiding those trukks behind my battlewagons until turn3-5. My Waaaugh! will be delayed.

And interestingly....I'm going to have to be *very* careful about where I model rokkits onto the battlewagons. Even in a pitched battle, if I deploy at the 24" line, and my opponent deploys at the 24" line...I'm not in range to shoot the rokkits if they're back on the hull or on the side.

Well tankbustas are ok but think lootas are generally better due to there range. Keep in mind that since there assault weapons, you can move 6" and still fire your rokkits. I don't remember if your wagons can shoot all their rokkits or not and still move 6".


My biggest problem is the lack of troops, your anti tank is better, but if it's redundant, get more boys. 4 troops is usually considered the minimum for Orks, unless one of them is Nobs, who never seem to die. I'm sure you know how fragile trukk boys are, in a sense, Mech Orks are a glass hammer, there vehicles are easy to destroy (Battlewagons are tougher though) but if they hit you, you'd better be fully meched up or else they will destroy everything within 2 turns.

I kind of like Nash's 3 Battlewagon plan, have you ever used more than 2? Battlewagons are a great transport, a 3 wagon/2 trukk build would be cool.

@Snikkyd, nope, only 1 rokkit + Kannon fired in S4 mode (defensive) can be used if you move 6".
Anyway, what I'm gonna play-test a bit is 3 wagon w shoota boyz (and the Kannon/Rokkit loadout), 2x3 MANz in trukks, 3x2 Rokkit buggies... then I haven't quite settled on whether to do 2x5 lootas or another MANz trukk or remove something else and go with 15+5 for the lootas. KFF + Ghaz for HQ. Anyway, I haven't had enough time to get many games in with this yet tho, just a couple on vassal.

Oh and Dash, just wanted to say I'm really impressed with how you are handling this new realization. I think a lot of people would have been a lot less open about it OR just denied the need for change to themselves.

Mark of a champ !

how do you plan on using the 4 rokkits/kannon on your BWs? do you sit back on turn 1 and unload on the armor (kannons being heave and all) then charge in on turn 2 or drop off the boyz and then start to unload?

Well, it seems to be either sitting still on turn1 and trying to open transports up (I'm discovering this doesn't really work because of 24" deployment, and all the rokkits aren't at the very tip front of the vehicles...

Or a 6-12" charge forward, weathering turn1 shooting (or maybe turn1+2 shooting) and responding with all the rokkits. While the tank bustas are great....I've been playtesting them and I think Lootas probably are the right fit.

*EDIT* I will say that I'm contemplating taking the rokkits off the wagons. I either sit still (and don't deliver a payload) to shoot rokkits, or I move 12" to get into range to deliver something and shoot nothing. Feels like a lose-lose. I'm going to go play with a third battlewagon concept right now though.


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Kevin Nash....following most of your advice, here's where I sit right now. I can't see eye to eye with you on all the weapons on the wagons, because I stop being mechanized assault and start being mechanized shooty (without moving). When I have shoota boys modeled and painted in the future, I may have to revisit the idea, but for now....help me within the context here.

Having playtested tankbustas for a few games I've realized that they're nice....but I have to finagle other vehicles around to make them shoot at what I want by blocking line of sight. I'm taking them out to put Lootas back in, second Deffkopta is going back in, Battlewagon #3 is going in, weapony on wagons is getting downgraded, and I've got odd points to figure out what to do with.

I want to be mechanized assault that has a target to assault when I get there. =p

1764 points now:

HQ: Ghazghkull
HQ: KFF Mek

Troop1: 12 boys in battlewagon
Troop2: 12 boys in trukk
Troop3: 12 boys in trukk

Elite1: 15 burnas
Elite2: 15 Lootas
Elite3: 5 Lootas

Fast1: Deffkopta / Rokkits / Buzzsaw
Fast2: Deffkopta / Rokkits / Buzzsaw

Heavy1: Battlewagon
Heavy2: Battlewagon
Heavy3: Battlewagon

Trukks have boarding planks, reinforced rams; battlewagons have the same, in addition to a grabbing klaw, rokkit, kannon.

I've got 86 points left to spare. I am *VERY* wary of only having 3 troop choices. I just cut down from five for God's sake. I could lose a Deffkopta to flesh out another boy squad. Or I could stick with three troops and use those 86 points to flesh out the 5 Lootas. Or I could pump up the boys in the battlewagon to a higher count.

How would you switch this around in my shoes?

Can't lose Ghazghkull: He's my world-ender, my reason for not using bosspoles, and all things awesome.
Can't lose the KFF Mek for obvious reasons.
Can't lose the burnas: They're my only answer to tyranids of all forms, and generally make themselves useful against any other list.
Can't lose the Lootas: They're anti-tank.
Not sure if I can lose the deffkoptas - opening up transports early to give me something to assault is important.




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Unless you think I should use those 85 points to add a gretchin unit for a home field objective holder? I could do that...


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I just realized I have an empty battlewagon...


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And I fixed the empty wagon.

I couldn't make points work out to have a 3rd wagon, so I took it back to three trukks, 2 wagons, 10 gretchin added in to hang with the 20 Lootas.

See first post for current (hopefully final iteration). Any other suggestions?

Ok let's try this:

Ghaz
KFF
Deffkopta (Buzzsaw, Rockitt)
Deffkopta (Buzzsaw, Rockitt)
15 Loota
15 Loota
15 Burna
17 Boyz (Nob BP PK)
12 Boyz (Nob BP PK) Trukk w Ram and Plank
12 Boyz (Nob BP PK) Trukk w Ram and Plank
10 Gretchin and Runtherd
Battlewagon (Red Paint, Plank, Big Shoota, Armor Plates, Ram)
Battlewagon (Red Paint, Plank, Big Shoota, Armor Plates, Ram)

1849.

The wagons work better with choppy boys (armor plates are nice here), don't bother with a kannon just take the minimum shoota so weapon destroyed results don't make you immobilized.

You have 4 troops now (should be enough) and 30 lootas.

Ghaz is in the wagon with Burnas, KFF with Boyz. You're all set.

Sweet is simple, that's what I would have taken or close enough to. Lootas will provide good coving fire to at least 60% of the board reguardless of terrain, burnas will braw the anti-tank fire away from boys, and the dependance on trukks is just not enough to justify shooting them first when they have a 4+ anyway. People will be forced to disembark first thanks to the planks and koptas add some spice.

Just if your only taking ten gretchin take 9 instead could almost get another 9 for the difference lol

You aren't allowed to take less than 10 Gretchin, Chris =]

Since gretchin are pretty much dedicated to getting objectives, I think they're mandatory if your cutting back your troops.

Remember, don't focus too hard on making a list for objectives, 2 or 3 troops that focus on getting them, while the rest of the army fights, is a lot better than 5-6 troops that fight and then get objectives.

I like tankbustas and generally advocate for them, but there is a really annoying scenario where they are useless: the drop pod army. Drop pods are vehicles, so your tankbustas will waste the entire game shooting at 35 pt drop pods instead of anything productive.

I'll say it again, consider rokkit buggies. They can move 12" and fire, keeping up with the convoy and popping stuff along the way. A unit of 3 TL rokkit buggies is only 105 points and with the KFF, they actually have some survivability. If the enemy wastes time shooting at them, the trukks, wagons get a break. For the price of the tankbustas, you could have two units of these, shooting 6 TL rokkits a turn (which is about the same % as shooting 12 from the bustas) without glory hogs and being able to shoot two targets instead of just one.

Snikkyd wrote:Since gretchin are pretty much dedicated to getting objectives, I think they're mandatory if your cutting back your troops.

Remember, don't focus too hard on making a list for objectives, 2 or 3 troops that focus on getting them, while the rest of the army fights, is a lot better than 5-6 troops that fight and then get objectives.

Hrm....I've never thought of that before.

I *do* try placing objectives close together (12"), which a squad of boys can stretch between. Time to start protecting them more.

since you already have a big mek have you thought about replacing the kan's with a troop deff dread with rockets?

I don't have any kans.

And troop dreads can't hold objectives, and the GT I'm going to has no killpoint missions....meaning objective holding is very important.

really? I don't have my brb in front of me at the moment (being on campus) but I thought all troops choices counted as scoring units... anyone got the relevant rules?

Yes, you want the one that says that vehicles may never hold objectives, only contest them.

p.90 of BRB: "There are a few exceptions, however, when a unit of Troops does not count as scoring:
-if it is a vehicle"

etc

Swarms and vehicles cannot hold objectives. Sadly, this means "Dreadbash" armies still need boyz or grots to do the dirty work.

Had another game against Hulksmash...

Even with 30 Lootas, I simply don't have an answer to razorback/rhino spam.

He had what? Like 9-12 Razorbacks? Not sure....

Do Deffrollas affect vehicles there?

Dashofpepper wrote:Had another game against Hulksmash...

Even with 30 Lootas, I simply don't have an answer to razorback/rhino spam.

It's been said before, and I'll say it again; rokkit buggies. 210 points gets you 6 TL rokkit launchas, equaling a little more than three hits a turn on average, which is enough to put down a Razorback or two every turn. 12" deployment + 12" move + 24" range means you'll be shooting turn 1. For a mere 30 points more you can upgrade those 6 buggies to reroll DT tests too, so you don't lose any to bad luck with terrain.

Alternatively;

3-man Warbiker units with a klaw Nob-115 points for quite decent AT capacity, but fragile.

kannons-78 points for a battery of 3 with 3 extra krew and 3 ammo runts, letting you re-roll when you need it. Better than average AT, and they have a 36" range too.