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What would you do if this happened:

You are playing a game in a tournament.
You agree with your opponent that smashed multi story buildings are just ruins before the game.
During the game your opponents places models on the second story of a piece of ruin.
When you try to assault these models with an assault move he claims you are out of range as you have to measure "up" also.
You decide to ask a judge for a ruling.
When you come back with the ruling, your friend passes you a note that says:

"When you stepped away your opponent moved your models out of range."

?

I'd check myself and have check at first. If I knew I'd pick my models up and walk out. There is no need to waste my time with a stupid game like that let the guy have that win.

Tough call.

Part of me says to tell the judge but not in front of the cheating guy and let the judge come over and confront him.

Part of me says to make fun of the cheater as loud as possible (maybe calling him fat too for good measure).

Last part of me says to just keep playing the game and then have a talk afterwards with him and the judges so they can keep an eye on him.


Did this happen to you? What tournament?

Check that your models have actually been moved and if so call him on it.

Speaking as someone who hasn't attended a tournament since the late 90's, is it normal practice these days for one of the players to have to wander off in search of the judge? The events I played in, you usually called them to the table.

Call the judge for ruling to show him note and have freind explain what happened.

Smash his closest model with your first, then drop a $20 spot on the table as you laugh and walk off...

I'm jk of course. I would pack up my stuff, make a loud "cheater" comment and watch my buds play...

I'd be pissed.
I'd probably tell the judge.
Did this happen to you?

Im my last tournament my opponet tryed to show me my model "fit" into base by proceeding to grab one of my models and shove it into base knocking all the models over. Had the model not fit (and it didn't) we would have took first. Instead we ended up third. My approach, not playing in tournaments at that store anymore. Hard to argue when people you play with regularly are friends of said person.

Having encountered similar situations myself in several circumstances, I feel I am able to offer you some good advice.

Try to avoid making any direct eye contact with the other player. This is important.

Say NOTHING about the cheating. Document it if you can, but never confront him in person. Take pictures when he isn't looking or use a video camera if you can. It may be difficult to get a video recording without making him suspicious.

When you get home, post on the internet about it. The more forums and social sites the better. Include any photos or video recordings you took showing him cheating. Be sure to point out how you took the high road and didn't confront him and managed to beat him anyways.

The high road? Being a whiny internet vigilante in regard to toy soldiers is taking the high road?

Wow, times sure change.

@ Burger Rage

And as shown by the latest example of that approach, you also have to insist that the guys is doing "tons of cheating" without ever actually pointing out how he is cheating.

It also help to have a sketchy approach to the rules. It makes it a lot easier to accuse somebody of cheating if you yourself don't actually know the rules. This was also superbly demonstrated by the latest example.

Deciding what is and isn't the "right thing" isn't up to you in a tournament, it's up to the judge. If you measure your models' position and they were not where you remember leaving them and you have an eyewitness who's willing to vouch for you, you should certainly tell the judge. It's then up to him to determine who's right and who's wrong in this situation.

More important question: why didn't the onlooker just stop him?

Jack

Jackmojo wrote:More important question: why didn't the onlooker just stop him?

Jack

No balls.

What the hell...

Are the forums populated by spineless people? ><

If I got a note from my friend, it would be an instant "JUDGE! NEED YOUR HELP!" followed by "While I was looking for you for a judgment call, my opponent moved my models, and I have a witness that he's cheating."

If you pay money to participate in an event, don't let someone drive you out because they're cheating. You're rewarding their behavior. Get them booted out, and publicly shame them on the spot...loudly.

Really. Why didn't your friend just stop him and then when you got bac, tell you about it, loudly and in great detail, so that every table within 30' could hear him? Then call the judges over and do it again! Want to stop a cheater? Publicly embaress him whenever you catch him doing it.

The Question is, why didn't the judge come to you to evaluate the board situation?

As an experienced tourney judge, I'll answer that. He may not have known there was a problem. Don't know how large the tourney was or how many walking judges they had, but it's easy to not know about a problem or question until someone comes and tells you. All it takes is getting involved in a discussion on one side of the romm while the problem is one the other side (assauming one judge).

Steelmage99 wrote:

@ Burger Rage

And as shown by the latest example of that approach, you also have to insist that the guys is doing "tons of cheating" without ever actually pointing out how he is cheating.

It also help to have a sketchy approach to the rules. It makes it a lot easier to accuse somebody of cheating if you yourself don't actually know the rules. This was also superbly demonstrated by the latest example.

Link please

I like the part where the friend won't even SPEAK to you, he hands you a note instead.

You know... in case the other guy overhears him or something.

I think the best thing to have done would be to show the judge the note from your friend. If you wait until after the event or even that game is over it's probably too late other than discredit your opponent.

G

And how do you know the Friend wasn't just trying to create Dramaz?

Obviously, we don't.

Drunkspleen wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:

@ Burger Rage

And as shown by the latest example of that approach, you also have to insist that the guys is doing "tons of cheating" without ever actually pointing out how he is cheating.

It also help to have a sketchy approach to the rules. It makes it a lot easier to accuse somebody of cheating if you yourself don't actually know the rules. This was also superbly demonstrated by the latest example.

Link please

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/275468.page

Brother Ramses wrote:The high road? Being a whiny internet vigilante in regard to toy soldiers is taking the high road?

Wow, times sure change.

trolled.

Smash his closest model with your first, then drop a $20 spot on the table as you laugh and walk off...

Brilliant.

I'd try to have him removed from the tourney, even if it meant getting myself eliminated as well. It's not fair to other players to let him continue to play.

I mean, this isn't even subtle as mis-measuring, changing terrain from ruins to building, etc. It's pretty blatant. Heck, using loaded dice at least has some subtlety. Even moving his own models has a little more subtlety.

I would call him on it. Because before in regards to the assault, I would have called the assault, made the measurements. THEN the opponent would throw the 'climb up the levels' bit, go to a judge for the ruling, coming back if I found my models were moved I'd ask what the hell, as they were checked to be in range before hand. Now if he still persists that they weren't then I'd get the same judge over because he would have the prior knowledge of my asking about the movement in the ruins in regards to being in assault range. Long story short, don't take gak from people.

Dashofpepper wrote:What the hell...

Are the forums populated by spineless people? ><

If I got a note from my friend, it would be an instant "JUDGE! NEED YOUR HELP!" followed by "While I was looking for you for a judgment call, my opponent moved my models, and I have a witness that he's cheating."

If you pay money to participate in an event, don't let someone drive you out because they're cheating. You're rewarding their behavior. Get them booted out, and publicly shame them on the spot...loudly.

It does seem interesting. People here have no problem calling out RAW and RAI on people in the safety of the forums, but would not in a real life instance?

Dashofpepper wrote:What the hell...

Are the forums populated by spineless people? ><

If I got a note from my friend, it would be an instant "JUDGE! NEED YOUR HELP!" followed by "While I was looking for you for a judgment call, my opponent moved my models, and I have a witness that he's cheating."

If you pay money to participate in an event, don't let someone drive you out because they're cheating. You're rewarding their behavior. Get them booted out, and publicly shame them on the spot...loudly.

This.

don_mondo wrote:Really. Why didn't your friend just stop him and then when you got bac, tell you about it, loudly and in great detail, so that every table within 30' could hear him? Then call the judges over and do it again! Want to stop a cheater? Publicly embaress him whenever you catch him doing it.

And that.