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What kind of effective counters do the Orks have against LRCs?

Klaw units can't get close, rokkitz needs 6+ for a glancing, zzap guns and SAGs are extremely unreliable.

What's left? What kind of Ork would do well against a LRC?

Deffrollaz-- just make sure to roll good, or else you are dead dead dead once the meltas start firing! Nice and Orky!

Deff Rollas lots of them

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/280793.page

Well, aside from the new clarification that Deffrollas affect vehicles? Not a lot of options and this is speaking from experience; one of my regular opponents fields Deathwing with LRCs. Generally speaking, I try to prioritize everything else first; there aren't great odds at cracking LRCs with orks, so my best bet is trying to remove the stuff I can kill first. When I do get around it, it's either with warboss PK attacks, dreadnoughts, and/or tankbustas. It's mostly a short-range, assault vehicle, so it's going to come to you. Saturate it with S8-9-10 hits and glance it to death or at least keep it from firing, while eliminating other units and keeping a KFF nearby to help protect your stuff while you try to take down the LRC.

Now that the Deffrolla hurts vehicles, that will probably be your best bet.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Klaw units can't get close

Klaws can't get close?
Use a truck. Or Looted wagon. Or a Battle wagon.

Thrown in a couple nobs w/ power klaws and a boss with power klaws.
Between wargh and vehicles I'm sure there's a way to get Close.

Well, a Deffrolla has about a 30% chance to kill a LRC when you hit. If it lives, pile out the Nobz inside and assault it. That gives you better than even odds of killing the sucker before it can blast you.

Of course, then you have to deal with the Deathwing charging you. Good luck!

orks v tanks... <tanks>

BeRzErKeR wrote:Well, a Deffrolla has about a 30% chance to kill a LRC when you hit.

Hahaha, you just made that up.

Yes...powerklaws *can* get close.

With Ghazghkull in your army, you have a 30" assault radius.

Even staying inside your battlewagon/trukks, boarding planks let you assault them anyway, and grabbin' klaws will hold them steady so that you get auto-hits.

kadun wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:Well, a Deffrolla has about a 30% chance to kill a LRC when you hit.

Hahaha, you just made that up.

No, actually, I didn't. Check the thread in News and Rumors, I ran all the math there on page . . . 10 I believe. Don't really feel like doing it again.

In essence, a Deffrolla's chance of killing an AV14 vehicle with a single hit is 11%. Factor in the random roll for number of hits, and the overall chance to kill with a Deffrolla ram rises to the region of ~30%.

Actually, that doesn't factor in the Ram hit itself, which may raise the chance slightly depending on far the Battlewagon moved.

kadun wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:Well, a Deffrolla has about a 30% chance to kill a LRC when you hit.

Hahaha, you just made that up.

Or... he just did a page of math in the rolla thread showing it. Whatever.
Damn, ninja'd.

Otherwise, besides rollas, you're stuck with PKs (hopefully S10 on a boss, though S9 can work) and DCCWs on Kans or Dreads for the most part. A moving LR will ruin your fun pretty fast though.
At range... rokkits and kannons can glance, but it's extremely rare, as are lucky rolls on SAG or zzap shots.

Tank bustas could work too, just take as many tank hammers as you can.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

kadun wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:Well, a Deffrolla has about a 30% chance to kill a LRC when you hit.

Hahaha, you just made that up.

No, actually, I didn't. Check the thread in News and Rumors, I ran all the math there on page . . . 10 I believe. Don't really feel like doing it again.

In essence, a Deffrolla's chance of killing an AV14 vehicle with a single hit is 11%. Factor in the random roll for number of hits, and the overall chance to kill with a Deffrolla ram rises to the region of ~30%.

Actually, that doesn't factor in the Ram hit itself, which may raise the chance slightly depending on far the Battlewagon moved.

Except for the fact that your math is off....
-all of the attacks out of the deff rolla auto-hit at s10
-one third of those penetrate, giving you anywhere between .33 and 2 penetrating rolls.
-One third of those will wreck or explode the vehicle, giving you between .111 and .667 destroyed results

The average on this is about 45%, not including any immobilized, weapon destroyed, shaken or stunned results, or the resolution of the ram.

Dronze wrote:
Except for the fact that your math is off....
-all of the attacks out of the deff rolla auto-hit at s10
-one third of those penetrate, giving you anywhere between .33 and 2 penetrating rolls.
-One third of those will wreck or explode the vehicle, giving you between .111 and .667 destroyed results

The average on this is about 45%, not including any immobilized, weapon destroyed, shaken or stunned results, or the resolution of the ram.

1d6 averages... what, 3.5?
3.5 / 3 = 1.166 pens
3.5 / 6 = 0.588 glances

1.166 pens / 3 = .3888 destroyed results = ~39%
0.588 glances can't destroy it.

From your own math, .111 to .667
.667 - (.667-.111)/2 = .389
Not sure where you got '45%' from.

Dronze wrote:

Except for the fact that your math is off....
-all of the attacks out of the deff rolla auto-hit at s10
-one third of those penetrate, giving you anywhere between .33 and 2 penetrating rolls.
-One third of those will wreck or explode the vehicle, giving you between .111 and .667 destroyed results

The average on this is about 45%, not including any immobilized, weapon destroyed, shaken or stunned results, or the resolution of the ram.

Each hit from a Deff Rolla has a 1/9 chance to destroy an AV14 vehicle. You're good so far.

If you get one hit, your chance of NOT destroying is 8/9, which is 89%. Your chance of destroying is therefore 11%, since chance to destroy and chance not to destroy must add up to 100%. One or the other always happens.

If you get 6 hits, your chance of not destroying is 8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9, which is 262144/531441. This works out to 0.49327, giving a 49% chance to NOT destroy the vehicle. Your chance of destroying it is therefore 51%, or more accurately 50.7%.

The average roll of a d6 is 3.5. For the median Chance To Kill (CTK), we therefore average the CTK given 3 hits, and the CTK given 4 hits.

8/9*8/9*8/9=512/729=0.702, chance NOT to destroy=70%, CTK=30%.

8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9=4096/6561=0.624, chance NOT to destroy=62.4%, CTK=38%.

Averaging gives you 34% CTK an AV14 vehicle with a Deffrolla, on average.

This does not, as I noted, include the effect of the Ram, which will vary from nothing to a small increase in CTK depending on how far the Battlewagon moved.

tankbustas with tankbusta bobs in trukk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
* bombs

I know this probably won't help much but honestly my advice would be to simply ignore it, even when playing with other armies I would only even try to kill a Land Raider with a melta weapon, I wouldn't even waste the fire on it with anything else.

Tankhammers would be your best bet, but like I said, it can cause some damage, but you would be better off using your powerful weapons elsewhere.

Deffrolla, besides that, Bosses w/ PK's.

Deffrolla is your best bet. Seriously. Tankbustas are nothing compared to the Deffrolla.

Getting a Nob w/ PK in on a Land Cruiser is probably the best way to go, as rokkits and most ork long range are sad versus 14 AV.

Some interesting ways deal with a LC...

Zagstruk led Stormboyz...they deepstrike and gives you a few S9 hits on the charge with Zag.

Kommandos outflanking in with a Nob to try and pop it. But with the knowledge of what your list packs, an opponent would squeeze to the middle to avoid that.

Ignore it. It's 250 points plus of pain in the butt for orks to handle. If you waste half your army to get to a vehikle you might just immobilize, it ain't worth the effort.

What are people TALKING about?
Close combat is a completely STUPID way of trying to take down Land Raiders now that the Deffrolla has been FAQ'd. Your Nob needs to hit on sixes, and only pens on another 6! Then, his pen only does anything on a 5+. That's VANISHINGLY small chances. Whereas Deffrolla hits automatically, pens on a 5+, kills on a 5+. Your boyz don't have to get out to do it, but, if you kill the raider, you can dismount and shoot/assault what's inside. If you blow up a raider full of Black Templars or Assault Termies with a nasty character inside, you're asking to get shot/flamed and charged and wiped.
Can we please stop giving outright poor advice in these threads?

From experience id say try to avoid the LR with the majority of your orks. A warboss with a klaw seems to be the most effective in my opinion.

No. No he isn't. Charging, with a squig, against a moving LRC, he'll hit once. Then he has a 1/9 chance of destroying the land raider. Then what's inside can mug him.
Deffrolla has MINIMUM 1/9 chance, on it's worst roll, and the contents can be mugged by your orks instead of the other way round.I'm going to keep saying this until people listen.

Getting the BW to the LR is going to be a challenge in and of itself. A likely list of SM would pack considerable anti-tank weaponry.

Ignoring the LR might be the best strategy unless you have no way around it.

Then massing a few BWs and protecting them could also work as well (but keeping in mind the points you'd spend to get to an opponent).

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Dronze wrote:

Except for the fact that your math is off....
-all of the attacks out of the deff rolla auto-hit at s10
-one third of those penetrate, giving you anywhere between .33 and 2 penetrating rolls.
-One third of those will wreck or explode the vehicle, giving you between .111 and .667 destroyed results

The average on this is about 45%, not including any immobilized, weapon destroyed, shaken or stunned results, or the resolution of the ram.

Each hit from a Deff Rolla has a 1/9 chance to destroy an AV14 vehicle. You're good so far.

If you get one hit, your chance of NOT destroying is 8/9, which is 89%. Your chance of destroying is therefore 11%, since chance to destroy and chance not to destroy must add up to 100%. One or the other always happens.

If you get 6 hits, your chance of not destroying is 8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9, which is 262144/531441. This works out to 0.49327, giving a 49% chance to NOT destroy the vehicle. Your chance of destroying it is therefore 51%, or more accurately 50.7%.

The average roll of a d6 is 3.5. For the median Chance To Kill (CTK), we therefore average the CTK given 3 hits, and the CTK given 4 hits.

8/9*8/9*8/9=512/729=0.702, chance NOT to destroy=70%, CTK=30%.

8/9*8/9*8/9*8/9=4096/6561=0.624, chance NOT to destroy=62.4%, CTK=38%.

Averaging gives you 34% CTK an AV14 vehicle with a Deffrolla, on average.

This does not, as I noted, include the effect of the Ram, which will vary from nothing to a small increase in CTK depending on how far the Battlewagon moved.

Immobilizing a Land Raider is "Gud enuf fer guvernment wurk"

34% CTK is a 34% CTK+ and 17% chance to immobilize.

Chance to kill or immobilize is 51%

Add a 5 point grabin claw for another 50% chance to immobilize the land raider (for 1 turn instead of permanently)

Deffrolla + grabbin klaw= 75.5% chance of killing, permanently immobilizing, or temporarily immobilizing a land raider.

Immobilized land raiders die quickly to orks.

I don't see them fielded a lot, but I have had decent results with the Kil-Kannon. Ordnance rolls 2d6 for penetration... Just don't miss... You are going to only have one shot, so take it early in game. If you at least immobilize it, you can steer clear of it for the game and make his termies walk to you. Not like they can claim an objective, usually. If you miss, focus on the rest of his forces.

Warboss with klaw on a bike, fast, strength 10, lots of attacks.

Works like a charm.

Reecius wrote:Warboss with klaw on a bike, fast, strength 10, lots of attacks.

Works like a charm.

1/6th chance to hit, 1/3 chance to pen, 1/3 chance to destroy = 1.8% chance to kill per swing = works like a charm?

If you just take Tank Bustas, the Crusader will shoot them up. If you just take the Battlewagon, the Crusader will shoot it up with a Multimelta and Twin-Linked Assault Cannons, which will kill the Battlewagon on a 3+ and 4+ penetrating hit respectively because your Battlewagon will be open-topped and only moves 13" at max. The Crusader moves within 24" and it'll get two turns of shooting off at your Battlewagon.

Instead, take a Battlewagon, Tankbustas, and a battery of Zzap Guns.

The Zzap Guns have a range of 36", Ammo Runts, and will automatically Shake any vehicle that they glance or penetrate. Use this to interdict the Crusader's shooting. Drive up in the Battlewagon and have a crack at running it over with Deff Rolla then dismount the Tank Bustas if the Battlewagon is alive and douse it with Tankbusta Bombs.

Right. So you field meltas on every unit, throw in a few groups of broadsides or zoanthropes, equip your trukks with dark lances, and use your cover-denying high strength ordinance attacks.

Those are the easy ways to do it. If you aren't using the ork codex that provides you with all those options for your orks, try these:

Str 10
Deffrolla
Warboss w/ klaw
Deff Dread
Killa Kan
Tank Hammers

Str 9
Battlewagon ram
Nob w/ klaw

Str 8
Rokkits!!! You have a bazillion things in the codex that can sport a rokkit, so feel free to take a few.
Bomb Squig

The str 8 stuff takes forever to actually kill an LRC since they are equipped with enough guns to roll around for quite some time, but as said above, an immobilized landraider is almost as good as dead. Or at least good enough to leave it open to an immediate visit to the graveyard care of a few of klaws.

I don't think ignoring it is as good an idea as people bill it to be. When any one of the dozen or so dangerous marine HQs coupled with his 7 terminator buddies comes barreling out of that crusader and wipes the floor with ~500 points of your orks because you never eliminated his 20" effective assault range (26 in Shrike's case!), you will find ignoring them difficult.

It would also be unwise for you to spend the whole game trying to chase one down swinging on 6s to hit it, but there is a balance to be found somewhere between.