Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Greetings, all.

Whenever I pop open one of my old bottles of GW paint, it seems that it is well on its way to drying up, or worse, totally dried up. You know what I mean. A bottle full of solid paint with maybe a little circle in the middle where the paint is still wet. That little circle will really ruin the point on your brush, so sometimes I chuck those bottles, too.

The question - are the jars flawed on purpose - made to let air in once the initial seal is broken? You would think that after producing paints for so many years that GW might have settled on a better design.

Or am I just too slow? I suppose some of my paints that have dried out are about 2 years old. That IS a long time, or is it? In the life of a modeler, I'm definitely in it for the long haul. Heck, it has taken me almost 2 years to finish some of my ambitious projects - especially when I get sidetracked onto another project.

Does this happen to you? And for those of you who use other paints, do you have a better shelf life?

Solorg

The jars are certainly not the best and while I'm not cynical to think GW would deliberately design a flaw like that, it may indeed be there. It also depends on how you mix your paints. If you shake your jar, you are introducing air into the mix which speeds drying inside the pot.

Built in obsolescence - it's a model that has served the home computer industry well for years now. The cynic in me thinks the same applies to GW paints too - if they dry out quicker, you have to buy more of them. To be fair to GW, the best paint pots in the world are never going to be completely airtight and I think their new design is light years better than the old designs were.

Hi -

I am of the opinion that GW knows EXACTLY what they are doing and the bottle design is calculated for FAILURE.

I once bought a NEW (recently rec'd from GW) Mega Paint Set from an independant retailer and most of the paints were SOLID !! The case, nor the paints, had ever been opened prior to that.

The thing is, I've been in the hobby for quite a while, and I still have old (original) GW paints when they came in a soft plastic bottle (like Vallejo) with a soft plastic flip-top lid. These bottles are still good and I haven't even had to resurrect them by adding water yet. I'm talking 15 - 17 year old bottles !!!

So, YES, GW has a "built-in failure-factor" with their paints in order to generate more sales. I can understand that, to an extent, but that failure occurs MUCH too soon. I only get to paint once every few months now and, when I finally find the time, I HATE it when I have to spend it to go get new paints EVERY TIME. That's why I don't use GW's paints any more.

Then you'd be wrong, Myrthe. With a small amount of water and acrylic thinner, I've been able to rehydrate two year old paint jars from GW's recent range.

Being a cynic i'd say that something fishy is going on with the new pot design.
I've too have got 20yr old pots of paint that are still in good order while newer paints have dried within a few months.
I also don't like the way that you can't open the foundation paints and washes all of the way without paint running down the back of the pot.

For a company that has been making paint for decades you would have hoped that they could do a better job of the pot design.

I have heard that storing the new paints upsidedown can help prolong shelflife and that is how I store my megaset just incase there is any truth in it.
Seems to make sense to me and it can't do any harm.

Pretend your paints are like pets. They are breathing objets made mostly of water; therefore, they need to be periodically fed and exercised. So it's your responsibility to go through your paints from time-to-time (depending on where you live) and re-hydrate them and mix them (shaken or stirred) so they do not fully separate. No paint containment device is 100% guaranteed to keep your paints wet. However, some manufacturer's pots are better at keeping your paints hydrated longer; and if that's what you want, then you should look to the old school paint pots "flip-tops" which are still used by Wargames Foundry, Coat'd Arms, and Privateer Press P3.

Irregardless of what paint you use; feed and exercise your paints.

Well i dont think GW do paint that dry upp extra fast just too feth with people
its just the way paint is and i think its the way you store your paints , for example if you let it stay in the sun (indors to) and in a warm home it will dry faster

the pots GW have now are nice , they are waaay better then vallejho pots

Well I'll just say this. A friend of mine recently re-discovered some of his first GW paint pots that sat closed in an attic or some such for the better part of two decades. He opened them up and found that the paint was not only wet, but still completely usable as is! Mean while, I went a month without using a few of my colors and I have to remix them.

There is a better way to look at it.

1) The paint is now being produced in China. That in and of itself is a downgrade. Even if the specifications on the paint are as stringent as they used to be, there is no reasonable expectation that those specs are being met. If if costs money to formulate a longer lasting paing, then the forumlation will change to make it cheaper to produce. This also applies to the paint jars themselves. There is also the increased length of the distribution chain that can subject the paint to higher temperatures over a longer period of time.

2) Instead of a planned obsolescence, it is more likely approached from the point of view of "how long does it take a customer who buys our product at our target rate to go through a tub of paint?" So instead of saying "Make it fail in 1 year", they would say "We don't give a tinker's cuss if it doesn't last more than a year because it should have been sold and used by then."

If you wanted the paint to last, it would be sold in a glass bottle with standard sized metal cap and a standard sized replaceable o-ring seal with a UV resistant label reducing the exposure to harmful rays.

Definitely I never shake the paint pots. I think what's sobering is that you probably only get to use paints for one project or two before they dry out. And if you leave your project half-finished... ha ha ha... when you come back to it, all your paint may well be dry!

And I don't know about you, but I usually use between 7 - 10 different colors per unit. That can add up.

Also, this is why I avoid the GW mega-paint set with ALL the paints in it. I mean, 50% of them would probably go dry before I could use them.

Uh oh, is this turning into a rant? Time to stop, then.

Solorg

unless there has been a recent change in the formula and I haven't had the misfortune to get a duffer yet then I cannot say it is a problem.

I really don't think they are worse than other ranges.
As much as I despise the money grabbing aspect of the GW Business Machine, this one is due to the nature of the product. I have some of the small pots that must be 8b yo and are still useable. The red is going hard now but some pigements will dry more quickly than others.

make sure that the lid is closed and airtight
Unscrew the lid to stir the paint before use - don't get it on the flip lid if possible.

Well, I have GW paints that are over five years old. I few drops of water and a stur with an old paint brush and they are good as new. All I do is throw in a paint agaitator and shake up all the bottles every couple of months. Yes, GW paints do dry up quick but with alittle bit of care they can be used for years.

I've not had much of a problem with their current paints, they aren't as good as their much older hexagonal, white topped ones though. But I found that continual use would eventually break the hinge on those, paint was still good.

Anyway, their current black flip top ones are ok though I've seen better. They are much better than the previous black screw top ones which were a disaster, now those really did dry out because the lids simply were not air-tight enough. Also I found that the lids had a tendancy to seize up even though you only did them up pinch tight, and even when they were impossible to open, the contents were drying out. I don't know how they managed to make something so totally useless.

I bought some GW paint back in january and 7 out of 8 of my paints have dried up completly the 8th one is a wash anyway thats why its not gone yet but I used about 3/5ths of each bottle and I only used them really for like 2 days back when I bought them but yesterday I went to paint up a few more of my blood angels and guess what I found? Dried up paints YAY! The really Shi^^y part of all this is all of my paints were closed 100% not half as$ closed they were 100% F-ing Closed those paints are not by any means cheap where I live its 5 dollars a bottle and I didnt include the tax in that so I paid around 50-60 bucks for 7 paints and a wash so im pissed GW needs to do something about this

Kanluwen wrote:Then you'd be wrong, Myrthe. With a small amount of water and acrylic thinner, I've been able to rehydrate two year old paint jars from GW's recent range.

"Wrong" about what ? I didn't say you couldn't rehydrate the current paints if you get to them before they solidify. I said that my old GW paints / pots are so superior that I've never had to resort to that in the 15 -17 years I've had them.

IMO, the hard plastic bottle with a hard plastic lid is a recipe for "planned failure". There is no flexibility to the plastic, there is no "soft" layer inside the lid for a tight seal. There is no gasket or membrane to prevent the penetration of air.

I also have old bottles of Polly S, Testors and Ral Partha paints that have lasted DECADES better than GW paints lasted MONTHS. And I took no extreme measures in the caring and upkeep of those paints.

And, as I said in my original post, I bought a Mega Paint set, expressly asking if it was new and hadn't sat on the retailer's shelf, only to find most of the paints were DRY (not "drying" but DRY). That is completely unacceptable. I spend hours prepping and building my models as part of this hobby ... I don't expect to have to spend crazy amounts of time resurrecting new or barely used paints !!!

The "wrong" was about the planned failure part.

So your whole complaint is about the convenience? That has nothing to do with planned failures.

It seems also to vary depending on the paints themselves.

My old pot of skull white (screw top), bleached bone and snakebite leather (flip top) all dried out very quickly, but I've got a screw-top pot or two that are fine, and the rest of my paints (flip top) are doing perfectly ok, some going back quite a while.

I find that if I shut the lids, giving a good push on the top of it seems to enhance longevity, even if it clicked shut properly when you closed it

I love me a good conspiracy theory, but I really don't think GW is doing this deliberately!

Kanluwen wrote:The "wrong" was about the planned failure part.

So your whole complaint is about the convenience? That has nothing to do with planned failures.

Umm ... OK ... are you being intentionally obtuse?

No, my "whole complaint" is NOT about the convenience. It's about my frustration with the GW paint pots, GWs reluctance to correct the issue, my suspiscion that they choose not to because it nets them more money and my preferring not to waste my time and money on something clearly substandard to earler offerings.

As I said, I've been in this hobby for a long while and I remember the fiasco that ensued when GW changed from the soft plastic bottles with the flip-tops to the hard plastic twist-off tops. It was an epic failure and GW staff, store and corporate alike, admitted as much. The shift to the flip-tops, while an improvement over the twist-tops, has still proven to be substandard. Simple. Is GW keen on fixing the problem? Not at all. It sells more paint for them. So is it an intentional "planned failure" or a "happy accident" that benefits GW? If a problem is discovered after the fact, but is not rectified because it results in more sales, perhaps it's not a "planned failure" but an "acceptable failure".

The switch to flip-top lids after the twist-tops seemed like a vast improvement at the time but it did not rectify the problem of paint drying in the pot. It's even more frustrating when my new paints fail before I even get to use them.

on the other hand - customers get fed up with paints that dry out and switch to alternatives which makes no business sense.

So I don't see that it is intentional
There cxould be a problem if the paints have shifted to Chinese factories.

Humbrol had some real fun and games when they moved production east

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I really don't think they are worse than other ranges.

Oh, they're definitely worse than other ranges. I've had my fair share of the current range drying up on me. By contrast, I have pots of GW's original paint range (the ones now sold under the Coat D'Arms label) that are 15 years old, have cracked lids, and are still fine.

The flip top lids GW are using now are a slight improvement over the slightly older screwtops, but they're still not ideal.

DO NOT BUY GW MODELLING PRODUCTS!

Primer-Krylon black/white/gray
Finish-Krylon Dullcote clear

Paints Vallejo or Liquitex NO GW PAINTS

Buy your brushes, clippers, tweezers, files at an arts and crafts store. Michaels for example

Zap-a-gap is 100 times better of a bottle for glue, good quality as well. Less stoppage of the opening with proper care.

Save money this way...PLEASE! Your models will look just as good and your products you use will be just as good IF NOT BETTER than GW products.

10 dollars for a can of primer is simply friggin ridiculous, go to wal-mart, buy some Krylon, and never spend so much on primer or flat coat again. PM with thanx to me later.

I'm sorry to defend GW, but I don't re-moisturize my paint's and they're doing just fine. I mean, some of my older ones (still the new style pots) have gotten a little gloppy and in all of them there is a ring of dried paint around that part of the lid meant to hold paint, but on the whole, my GWs are still in good condition.

Defending GW is, no offence, simply impossible to do with any logic.

GW's hobby tool/paint product line are straight up average to low average product repackaged with GW logo with a jacked up price....period, end sentance end paragraph.

Broaden your modelling horizons. Save some money, and get more into your hobby. Buy cheaper primers, get more and better paint for your money at local arts and craft stores, better brushes for less.

Save your money and buy MORE MODELS. Not more cans of primer.

If you buy a can of black GW Primer, and a can of dullcoat from GW, you're spending over 20 bucks.

You can get cans of the same Krylon product at wall mart for 3 dollars a can...and its a better product....then go buy a new blister.

Stop defending GW modelling products. They arent worth the money.

Save money, buy other products than GW, buy more GW models for your trouble.

GW paints and modelling products are okay I think. They are available at the store, you don't need to go to a hardware or arts shop to get your modelling/painting stuff, you can get it at the shop. Fair business IMO. If you want, you can go find cheaper stuff that's made for larger user groups elsewhere. It's really matter of of how much time you want to spend on getting this and that. If you know where to get your clippers, primers etc by other manufacturers, then good. IF not, GW provides you with their alternative. There's nothing bad with that. The toilet paper at McDonalds might not be the best, but it's there and it's easier to use than bringing your own.(highly exaggerated example ).

I'm not one to defend GW in most cases, but I think there's nothing wrong with providing speciality products at their own price at their stores, sure you can buy cheaper elsewhere, and higher quality etc. The GW stuff is still good enough to get you there. Most people don't need a 1m roll of Gs, or care about saving 2$ on a clipper, when they can buy one while buying their models, and so on.

If you want to save, then save. I have a mixed collection of GW and non-gw product, I'm quite satisfied with all of them. Well, the spraycans are quite overpriced, I'll agree.

Cheers

While agreeing with some of the sentiments above, I can only go by my own experience with modelling products of many companies.
I now use Citadel paints in scale modelmaking as they are good imho. You have had a bum deal for whatever reason.

Some of the GW wares are ridiculously over priced for sure and I buy other products to save money where the quality isn't compromised.

Am surprised at the mention of Liquitex, but am more familiar with their artists' tube acrylics, which in my hands did not work well on figures - and they are expensive.
Assume that is not what you are referring to, Deadshane?

I still have the old, old space marine paint set from the early 1990's and the remaining 5 paints, which I have used are still in perfect working order.

So I say its a design flaw.

Also Vallejo paints haven't been drying up on me.

Yea, they're not the best design, but to say that they purposefully do it is more than a little bit silly, if you ask me.

I doubt the company is capable of enough foresight to design such a thing, nor able to keep all its employees quiet about such a conspiracy. Ergo it's a mixture of paint formulation and container design.

And I find certain paints dry faster than others. Foundations separate really easily but can be reshaken with only a bit of work if you toss in an agitator. Bleached bone seems neigh on indestructable. Ditto chaos black. Hawk turquoise dries up a bit but that is likely because it is the main colour of my army so exposed to a lot more air. Ice blue does the same and that's my highlight colour.

And for me GW paints are normally better than Valejo, because by the time I pay shipping to get them to aus GW paints are cheaper. And at least I know what proportions to mix to get my colours instead of having to use a new range.