Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 lindsay40k wrote:
When KAC hits, it hits hard. But it’s such a massive crapshoot, most of the time it’ll whiff.

Raptorial Host feels like a solid part of a WE army. Rendezvous the Warp Talons with like Karanak or a Skullreaver Prince and they make a mess in their own right and also get to run around tagging key units & preventing OW.

True, but it's the charge roll that's inconsistent, not the attacks. The KAC made a 9 inch charge, the melta cutters hit on a 2+ with a single attack at S16 with 2d6 D.

It dropped 4 units of Berzerkers into charge range, 2 of them made it in. This was followed by 2 20-man Bloodletter Bombs, both of which were buffed by a Skullmaster.

Maybe the KAC would have been destroyed if it hadn't made the charge. But the only thing it did was 8 wounds on the Knight. The Berzerkers and Bloodletters may have been enough, I had units on most of the objectives by the time everything was on the table.

Again, offering these thoughts from the perspective of how to make Khorne work. Not competitive but certainly enjoyable.

Oh, yes, if you manage to get a KAC into the enemy, it’s a wrecking ball! I’m quite fond of deploying it, shrouding it, and warptiming it into the densest concentration of victims I can

Can you take council of traitors and a field commander? Wondering if I can add an indomitable Disco Lord to my Abby council list.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
When KAC hits, it hits hard. But it’s such a massive crapshoot, most of the time it’ll whiff.

Raptorial Host feels like a solid part of a WE army. Rendezvous the Warp Talons with like Karanak or a Skullreaver Prince and they make a mess in their own right and also get to run around tagging key units & preventing OW.

True, but it's the charge roll that's inconsistent, not the attacks. The KAC made a 9 inch charge, the melta cutters hit on a 2+ with a single attack at S16 with 2d6 D.

It dropped 4 units of Berzerkers into charge range, 2 of them made it in. This was followed by 2 20-man Bloodletter Bombs, both of which were buffed by a Skullmaster.

Maybe the KAC would have been destroyed if it hadn't made the charge. But the only thing it did was 8 wounds on the Knight. The Berzerkers and Bloodletters may have been enough, I had units on most of the objectives by the time everything was on the table.

Again, offering these thoughts from the perspective of how to make Khorne work. Not competitive but certainly enjoyable.

That's interesting. But I think the harder question to ask was ... was your opponent inexperienced and never faced such a melee khorne army before? Was the whole battle won and lost in the deployment phase already.

He was playing AM. By right he should have had an abundance of chaff with which to do screening. If he had deployed correctly, he shouldn't have presented you any opening at all in which to charge into anything important other than chaff. This should have been true in turn 1, as well as in turn 2, when you deep struck in.

If he had any idea how deadly a blood letter bomb was, the screening should have been the priority during his deployment, and first, second turn movement. So, the question is, if you face an opponent who knew to screen his army in such a way that nothing can be charged except chaff, would this army still be able to win despite that?

And the other question is, what happens if your opponent goes first? So he gets a whole round of shooting in before you even get to move. Don't get me wrong, I love your lists, and I want to find out more what you are trying. But there must be a reason why Khorne Berserker lists aren't that popular. So, either they are really hard to play well, or they suffer a significant disadvantage once the opponent gets to go first or screens effectively or something.

xenoterracide wrote:
Can you take council of traitors and a field commander? Wondering if I can add an indomitable Disco Lord to my Abby council list.

Don’t see why not

Eldenfirefly wrote:

Spoiler:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
When KAC hits, it hits hard. But it’s such a massive crapshoot, most of the time it’ll whiff.

Raptorial Host feels like a solid part of a WE army. Rendezvous the Warp Talons with like Karanak or a Skullreaver Prince and they make a mess in their own right and also get to run around tagging key units & preventing OW.

True, but it's the charge roll that's inconsistent, not the attacks. The KAC made a 9 inch charge, the melta cutters hit on a 2+ with a single attack at S16 with 2d6 D.

It dropped 4 units of Berzerkers into charge range, 2 of them made it in. This was followed by 2 20-man Bloodletter Bombs, both of which were buffed by a Skullmaster.

Maybe the KAC would have been destroyed if it hadn't made the charge. But the only thing it did was 8 wounds on the Knight. The Berzerkers and Bloodletters may have been enough, I had units on most of the objectives by the time everything was on the table.

Again, offering these thoughts from the perspective of how to make Khorne work. Not competitive but certainly enjoyable.

That's interesting. But I think the harder question to ask was ... was your opponent inexperienced and never faced such a melee khorne army before? Was the whole battle won and lost in the deployment phase already.

He was playing AM. By right he should have had an abundance of chaff with which to do screening. If he had deployed correctly, he shouldn't have presented you any opening at all in which to charge into anything important other than chaff. This should have been true in turn 1, as well as in turn 2, when you deep struck in.

If he had any idea how deadly a blood letter bomb was, the screening should have been the priority during his deployment, and first, second turn movement. So, the question is, if you face an opponent who knew to screen his army in such a way that nothing can be charged except chaff, would this army still be able to win despite that?

And the other question is, what happens if your opponent goes first? So he gets a whole round of shooting in before you even get to move. Don't get me wrong, I love your lists, and I want to find out more what you are trying. But there must be a reason why Khorne Berserker lists aren't that popular. So, either they are really hard to play well, or they suffer a significant disadvantage once the opponent gets to go first or screens effectively or something.

This is a list I've faced several times before with my Black Legion army, played by someone I consider competent.

While I don't have his list in front of me, what I recall is there was a Castellan, 2 Armigers, 2 Basilisks, 2 Hellhounds, a Leman Russ, 3 Mortars, various HQs and something like 8 Infantry squads.

His problem wasn't with screens so much as board control. I had the characters on Juggernauts moving up behind the Cultists so they could buff Bloodletters, he was spreading his troops out to take away good spots to arrive like you're supposed to.

But I think he was too focused on the center of the table, where my HQs were, expecting me to have everything deep strike there. He moved his Castellan up along with most of his Infantry, which created an opportunity for the KAC.

This created some other disadvantages for him. His turn 3, he shot up the Deredeo, the Flesh Hounds, and one of my Skulltakers before charging my remaining HQs with 20 Infantry. This gave me a better spot to drop the Bloodletters, who could the multicharge Infantry / HWTs .

But the units on the left were tied up with Berzerkers, so he had Infantry charging from the right that were previously screening against Bloodletters. So in my turn 3, I brought in both squads of Bloodletters and they were able to multicharge infantry and HWTs. And it went on from there...

To answer your question, Berzerker lists are not that popular because they often only get one charge off and do little damage. It's not that hard to just move away from Berzerkers while the rest of your army shoots them. My opponent did not have that option, he had so many models on the table they were getting in each other's way.

How many cultists did you have? Sounds like you had so many bodies he just couldn't cope. Although, if he had 8 squads of infantry, that's 80 bodies already... lol Must have been one really congested board....

 lindsay40k wrote:

xenoterracide wrote:
Can you take council of traitors and a field commander? Wondering if I can add an indomitable Disco Lord to my Abby council list.

Don’t see why not

Field Commander only lets you add the SPECIALIST Warlord Trait-not any one you want.

So if Abbadon is your Warlord, there's no way to get Indomitable on your Lord Discordant.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
How many cultists did you have? Sounds like you had so many bodies he just couldn't cope. Although, if he had 8 squads of infantry, that's 80 bodies already... lol Must have been one really congested board....

We both brought a lot of models but the board wasn't too congested. At least it didn't stay that way long.

I only had 28 Cultists. Their job was to shield the HQs marching up the board, afterwards they died quickly. Even when the 20 Berzerkers and 40 Bloodletters came on, they were destroying equal numbers of models so it never got too crazy.

The premise of his list is board control, his infantry is supposed to spread out and grab objectives while opponents tangle with his big guns. The drawbacks to having that many Infantry units are that they can't spread out fast enough to avoid multi-charges and bigger models (like tanks) can't move around them. So, yeah, for a turn, his army was just this huge blob covering about a quarter of the table.

If you can picture this in your head, I had Berzerkers on the left, Bloodletters in the middle and on the right, a Juggerlord and Skullmaster in between the Bloodletters, and a KAC moving across his table edge. Turn 3, they destroyed about 50 Guardsmen. By the end of turn 4, he was down to an Infantry squad, a Mortar, an Armiger, a Hellhound, a LR, and the Basilisks, many of which were locked in combat. At the end of turn 5, he was down to a LR and the Basilisks and conceded. I still had about half my Bloodletters, 15 Berzerkers, the Juggerlord, and another 10-man squad of Bloodletters sitting on an objective.

His problem was he couldn't get out of the way fast enough after turn 3, most of his army was in charge range of something. He tried to move back to form a gunline behind the Hellhounds and Infantry squads, but this screwed him because now everything was blobbed up and taking penalties for moving and shooting. I remember thinking he should have been playing Tallarn, he wasted a lot of shots finishing off the KAC.

Hey does anyone have a spare lord of skulls head? The one with the masked face and khorne symbol crown?

Not really much point building quad heavy bolter rapiers, now, eh?

 lindsay40k wrote:
Not really much point building quad heavy bolter rapiers, now, eh?

It's fw artillery.

No, that answers anything.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Not really much point building quad heavy bolter rapiers, now, eh?

Because of the reaper? I dunno, i guess they still have their place due to the range. This was always on my to do list to kitbash some of these but never got round to it. Not sure i'll bother now.

Hey guys I have read alot about daemon engine builds and how its never going to be top tier- and Im fine with that. I really like the look of the models so I am just trying to build something that can be semi competitive and I want to put on the board. So thus far I have I have this-

Disco Lord
Daemon Prince with wings
Master of Possession
WarpSmith

20 CSM
2 Greater Possessed
2 Venom Crawlers
1 Maulerfiend
3-5 Oblits
4 Havocs with lascannons

So I was starting with the old Red Corsairs minimum sized squads for the extra command points. However, I dont think I want to go in that direction, I think I want this to be more a mixture of daemons and daemon engines.

So my question is what are my options for daemons that dont take alot of points that would help the daemon engines, give me the command points I need and allow me to use the models I want to use.

So for Khorne I could use Karanak and 3 min sized squads of hounds? I dont have the daemons book so I dont know what I would need to take and what would help my engines.

I could do a heavy detachment with
Maulerfiend
2xVenomCrawlers
Daemon Prince

But then I am unsure how to get in a few oblits. I was also thinking of adding either another daemon prince or another disco lord. Thoughts?
Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Are blood thirsters any good?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also could someone explain the loci thing and who has what?
Thanks.

Locis are given by chaos deamon hq's from the deamon codex but the entire detachment has to be dedicated to a single god.

5 obliterators is way too much. They are expensive enough as it is at 115, 5 of them.... thats too much. Max 3 will do a ton of work.

I disagree that deamonforge armies cant be competitive, they have a lot going on for them. They do require some serious thought on the list building end to work well though. Venomcrawlers work really well with heralds / greater possessed backing them up.

Example : a slaanesh deamon herald, a greater possessed slaanesh, and 2 venom crawlers of slaanesh will give the venom crawlers +2 to their strength. The herald also lets them advance and shoot. Finally because they use assault weapons they are still able to put out firepower at bs4.

Switch it to khorne and give the herald the crimson crown and your kill team is slower, not able to advance and charge, but wound rolls of 6 generate additonal shots.

Thats the kind of mixing that makes deamon engine forces work.

Finally lord discordants have 2 successful ways of running them. If you run 1 you make it black legion and make it the warlord. Give it the Indomitable warlord trait and the mark of nurgle. This gives it healing options on top of survivability. Alternatively go 3 of them so when one dies the rest of the deamon engine hoard isnt taking a massive loss.

As for cp, red corsairs is the way to go still. 3 squads of 5 marines, put a rotor chain cannon in each squad, and take 2 sorcerers as your hqs. I suggest them because they are the only support charecter whos abilities (spells) do not care about legion friendly targets, just chaos god and heretic astraties. This lets your main force be whatever you wish with the knowledge that buffs that your units get / give effect everything and everyone except the 3 chain gunning marine squads which you put in cover and let them do their anti infantry thing.

Hope that advice helps!

sturguard wrote:
Hey guys I have read alot about daemon engine builds and how its never going to be top tier- and Im fine with that. I really like the look of the models so I am just trying to build something that can be semi competitive and I want to put on the board. So thus far I have I have this-

Disco Lord
Daemon Prince with wings
Master of Possession
WarpSmith

20 CSM
2 Greater Possessed
2 Venom Crawlers
1 Maulerfiend
3-5 Oblits
4 Havocs with lascannons

So I was starting with the old Red Corsairs minimum sized squads for the extra command points. However, I dont think I want to go in that direction, I think I want this to be more a mixture of daemons and daemon engines.

So my question is what are my options for daemons that dont take alot of points that would help the daemon engines, give me the command points I need and allow me to use the models I want to use.

So for Khorne I could use Karanak and 3 min sized squads of hounds? I dont have the daemons book so I dont know what I would need to take and what would help my engines.

I could do a heavy detachment with
Maulerfiend
2xVenomCrawlers
Daemon Prince

But then I am unsure how to get in a few oblits. I was also thinking of adding either another daemon prince or another disco lord. Thoughts?
Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Are blood thirsters any good?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also could someone explain the loci thing and who has what?
Thanks.

If you can, replace the venomcrawlers with defilers, for 6 pts more you get a better daemonengine.


I'd also still would go for a battalions worth of csm.

Maybee modify one venomcrawler into another Lord discordant?

sturguard wrote:
Hey guys I have read alot about daemon engine builds and how its never going to be top tier- and Im fine with that. I really like the look of the models so I am just trying to build something that can be semi competitive and I want to put on the board. So thus far I have I have this-

Disco Lord
Daemon Prince with wings
Master of Possession
WarpSmith

20 CSM
2 Greater Possessed
2 Venom Crawlers
1 Maulerfiend
3-5 Oblits
4 Havocs with lascannons

So I was starting with the old Red Corsairs minimum sized squads for the extra command points. However, I dont think I want to go in that direction, I think I want this to be more a mixture of daemons and daemon engines.

So my question is what are my options for daemons that dont take alot of points that would help the daemon engines, give me the command points I need and allow me to use the models I want to use.

So for Khorne I could use Karanak and 3 min sized squads of hounds? I dont have the daemons book so I dont know what I would need to take and what would help my engines.

I could do a heavy detachment with
Maulerfiend
2xVenomCrawlers
Daemon Prince

But then I am unsure how to get in a few oblits. I was also thinking of adding either another daemon prince or another disco lord. Thoughts?
Thanks!

I collect Word Bearers and mainly field them as a Daemonkin list with a Daemons detachment, a Daemon Engine jamboree with an Oblit or three, and another detachment of either a monotheist Legion or more Word Bearers. My go-to Daemon detachments are:

Poxbringer, Epidemius, Nurglings, Nurglings, Plaguebearers: solid CP battery, gives healing to the Daemons and also enhances their shooting, once you’ve got a few kills they don’t need a DP or CL to provide them rerolls. Epidemius and a PB screen are a solid anchor for the deployment zone that won’t concede an objective without a serious fight. Throw in a Gnarlmaw and there’s a lot of shenanigans to be had with T1 advance-Warptime advance-shoot-charge.

Herald of Slaanesh on Steed, Fiend, Fiend, Fiend, sometimes a DP or KoS: this CP-neutral combo accompanies a Warptimer and a Master of the Soulforges to make multiple T1 charges that the enemy aren’t allowed to fall back from. Hilarious when it works. Replacing the Index stuff with a Contorted Epitome and Infernal Enrapturess is on my to-do list.

Karanak, Bloodmaster with Crimson Crown, DP with Skullreaver, reinforcement points for a Skull Altar: This lot are running on a CP deficit until I get 30-50 Bloodletters bought and built. I use them alongside a Possessed horde and Warp Talons as well as the Daemon engines. The BM runs forward then summons the Altar. Karanak and DP provide charge reroll auras, Knight killing, and DTW coverage.

Changeling, Herald on Disc, 20 Pink Horrors, Blue & Brimstone Horrors: Bit of a wild card, not exactly a perfect fit for a Daemonkin army, but buffed Horrors have some serious firepower and Changeling’s aura can’t be ignored by my usual opponent’s Space Wolf gunline. Sometimes take three brimstone squads and summon the Pinks, to avoid alpha strike.

Azuza and Lindsay,
Thanks for the in depth responses. So I managed to find what the loci do online, it looks like Slaanesh and Khorne are the two that would most benefit what I want to do, not to mention, I think I want to stay away from Nurgle, while they have some very tough units, it seems like they do better the more nurgle units you have.

So it looks like Ill be keeping my 3x5 Red Corsair marines. I was going to do 2x5 man with chaincannon, and then maybe 1x10 with 2 autocannons or even lascannons?

I only listed I had 5 oblits, not that I would use them all. With a price tag of 115 (did that ever get confirmed?) they seem expensive for what they do, however, I really like the models so want to include at least 2 of them.

My plan was to have a two pronged attack, one group of units shooting while the other advanced to assault.

Daemon Prince, Disco Lord, Maulerfiend advance, while the venom crawlers, oblits, master of possession, warpsmith and greater possessed kind of castle in a blob to shoot. The greater possessed will add +1 str to the venom crawlers shots, the MoP casts cursed earth to up their invuls to 4+, and the warpsmith and MoP heal the venom crawlers, up to 7 damage a turn.

However, originally when I was designing a list, I was going to put a KyTan in there or a Lord of Skulls- to me my plan is flawed because if an opponent wants to take out a venomcrawler in a turn, that would be easy enough, by the time it got to my turn there wouldnt be anything to heal. So maybe I dont need the MoP and Warpsmith unless I am using a SuperHeavy. So if I take him out, it seems like I have to protect the venom crawlers by presenting targets that are more dangerous (ie the assault group).

I did go through all the demons, my problem is for this army, I have to like the looks of the models. I have to say, Im not a fan of many base demons. I love the bloodthirster. I like Karanak and the hounds, but thats about it from Khorne line- although the Bloodmaster is fine too. Can I put the crown on a herald thats on a juggernaut and if so, does he have to be the armies warlord?

I really like the new Keeper of Secrets model that is a special character, with the shield and spear.Also like Syll Esske, who I have heard is better than a daemon prince in almost every way. However, Im not really a fan of any of the Slaneesh demon models. I mean I could probably bear having seekers in there or fiends, but they really dont do it for me. If I did seekers, I probably would have to find the old metal ones, I liked them so much better.

Anyways, so any additional thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Can I put the crown on a herald thats on a juggernaut and if so, does he have to be the armies warlord?

Yes, then no. Relics are a bit different to things like Loci, so here’s the rundown:

Your choice of Warlord unlocks a single free Relic, that has to be taken from their Codex*, and can be given to any eligible character. Doesn’t have to be given to your Warlord - indeed, if your Warlord is a unique character (Karanak, Khârn, etc), they’re not allowed to have a Relic at all.

You can spend CP to unlock extra Relics via Stratagems. You need a Detachment** that’s entirely taken from the Codex* you want the Relics from. So far, the standard is pay 1CP to get a single bonus Relic, and pay 3CP to get two.

So, if your Warlord is a Chaos Space Marine, they get a Warlord Trait, and you can give a Chaos Space Marine generic Character of your choice a Relic. If you’ve got a detachment of Daemons, you can spend 1CP to give a generic Daemon character - who can be a Skullmaster (Juggerherald) a Crimson Crown.

*or expansion - Vigilus and that
**not an Auxiliary one, where you get a single unit - a proper full detachment like a Battalion, Spearhead, Patrol, etc

So Im just spit balling here, not sure of points, just looking at the models I like and thinking about a battle plan-

Disco Lord
Daemon Prince
3x5 CSM w/chaincannon
Greater Possessed
Defiler
Venom Crawler x 2

Discolord
Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend
2x Oblits

Karanak
3x5 Hounds?

I think thats what 13 command points? Do the hounds have to be summoned or can they start on the board.

KoS & Syll’eske are doable. Add either three Fiends or another Slaaneshi Daemon HQ and you’ve got a legit detachment. (Expect a single KoS to be a bullet sponge, though - either deep strike it or equip it for defence.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sturguard wrote:
So Im just spit balling here, not sure of points, just looking at the models I like and thinking about a battle plan-

Disco Lord
Daemon Prince
3x5 CSM w/chaincannon
Greater Possessed
Defiler
Venom Crawler x 2

Discolord
Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend
2x Oblits

Karanak
3x5 Hounds?

Assuming this is a Khorne Daemonkin list, I’d recommend moving the DP to Karanak’s Detachment, to give it +1A+S and access to Skullreaver and a Locus of rerolling charges. Also, perhaps try to add a Warpsmith; put them in a Spearhead with all the Daemon Engines, make him a Master of the Soulforges, and you’re getting 4” closer to a T2 mass charge. Do you have a particular Legion in mind?

Lindsay,
See that's where I get all confused, with what effects what.

Making a daemon price khorne doesnt seem good, after all you miss out on the sorcerer side of things for +1 attack and warptime seems too good.

What about the keeper with the shield and spear? How much does he cost? I dont see alot of lists with greater daemons, are they kind of subpar? Bloodthirster any good?

On the other hand, I could just go with 3 hellbrutes with lascannons? So you kind of have 3 tiers, Maulerfiend, Daemon Price, Disco Lords, then venom crawlers, and finally hellbrutes- enough target saturation? Are hellbrutes any good- granted they get off my kick of daemons and daemon engines....

Helbrutes still have a place i some lists with a decent Legion trait and a non degrading statline for a twin Las platform.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Helbrutes still have a place i some lists with a decent Legion trait and a non degrading statline for a twin Las platform.

Personally i like the 90 pts dakka dispenser more.
(Missile + Reaper autocannon)

But that's just me.

So something I just noticed (well I had noticed before, but it had a chance to sink in)-

Lots of folks have been using Red Corsairs because with 3 small units of csm you generate 3 extra command points.

The Black Legion Warlord Trait trusted leader should actually provide me just as many potential command points if I were to use a battalion plus say a vanguard. You start with 9 command points you should get 3 back. Now some games you may get less but other games you might get more. Im not saying Black Legion is better, but they certainly do have access to more stratagems, relics and objectives.

dumb? question... because it seems counter intuitive. The Talon of Horus isn't considered a bolter weapon right? so it doesn't benefit from bolter discipline?

xenoterracide wrote:
dumb? question... because it seems counter intuitive. The Talon of Horus isn't considered a bolter weapon right? so it doesn't benefit from bolter discipline?

it is considered a bolter and does benefit. I think when they announced the rule they specifically named it

sturguard wrote:
Lindsay,
See that's where I get all confused, with what effects what.

Making a daemon price khorne doesnt seem good, after all you miss out on the sorcerer side of things for +1 attack and warptime seems too good.

What about the keeper with the shield and spear? How much does he cost? I dont see alot of lists with greater daemons, are they kind of subpar? Bloodthirster any good?

On the other hand, I could just go with 3 hellbrutes with lascannons? So you kind of have 3 tiers, Maulerfiend, Daemon Price, Disco Lords, then venom crawlers, and finally hellbrutes- enough target saturation? Are hellbrutes any good- granted they get off my kick of daemons and daemon engines....

Yes, if you’re not going pure Khorne, a Daemon Prince with a spell like Warptime is absolutely a solid choice. Khorne DPs are indeed generally subpar - it’s the Skullreaver Relic from Codex Daemons that makes them viable, they can kill nearly anything with it.

The problem with Greater Daemons is they are too big to hide, and they are so damn scary they attract loads of firepower. A single GD, if specced for survival by the KoS Shield, LoC Impossible Robe, or being a GUO, will soak up a lot of shooting if deployed, but will struggle to reach anything worth hitting and will need to teleport into play to be sure of getting close (which in turn can be shut down with screening). If you want to walk a GD up the table and get stuck in, your choices are either to take a KoS and get first turn, or to take two GDs so that one will survive. They do seem a bit overcosted for competitive, but they can work in casual.

Helbrutes are reasonably costed for what they do, these days. If you’re going for armoured target saturation, they’re an ok source of wounds.

Indomitable and abby's half damage, am I right that these are useless to small arms fire where the damage is only 1 per attack? so if abby is surrounded by 20 guys and they get off 8 damage somehow.... I find myself extra confused when it comes to wounds, allocated wounds (local meta has a fair number of DG), damage ( when models are removed? e.g. after the whole unit has finished attacking), etc.

Yes, damage is rounded up, after halving. So 0,5 becomes 1. If abby is surrounded by 20 guns and they get off 8 damage from boltguns, or any other D1 weapon, he is dead.