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xenoterracide wrote:
Indomitable and abby's half damage, am I right that these are useless to small arms fire where the damage is only 1 per attack? so if abby is surrounded by 20 guys and they get off 8 damage somehow.... I find myself extra confused when it comes to wounds, allocated wounds (local meta has a fair number of DG), damage, etc, etc.

Yes, half of 1 damage is still 1 damage. But Abby usually doesn't need to worry that much about small arms fire. Firstly, Abby is T5. So, usually small arms fire need a 5 to wound him. Secondly, he is wearing terminator armor giving him a 2+ armor save. And small arms fire usually doesn't have any AP. So, you would need a massive number of shots, doing a massive number of wounds to afffect Abby.

I don't know if I've asked this before (probably have lol), but do you think that the rules for the non-legion Chaos warbands found in Vigilus Ablaze will ever be separated and put somewhere else?

Eldenfirefly wrote:

xenoterracide wrote:
Indomitable and abby's half damage, am I right that these are useless to small arms fire where the damage is only 1 per attack? so if abby is surrounded by 20 guys and they get off 8 damage somehow.... I find myself extra confused when it comes to wounds, allocated wounds (local meta has a fair number of DG), damage, etc, etc.

Yes, half of 1 damage is still 1 damage. But Abby usually doesn't need to worry that much about small arms fire. Firstly, Abby is T5. So, usually small arms fire need a 5 to wound him. Secondly, he is wearing terminator armor giving him a 2+ armor save. And small arms fire usually doesn't have any AP. So, you would need a massive number of shots, doing a massive number of wounds to afffect Abby.

and if they doi have AP it's almost never more the -1.

Bought a box of terminators for my iron warriors but want to give them chain axes and the champion will have a lightning claw for extra punch against infantry.

Anyone know if it's possible to convert them easily to hold chain axes and where to actually get some? Forgeworld do some great ones but delivery is so much for such a small product

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Bought a box of terminators for my iron warriors but want to give them chain axes and the champion will have a lightning claw for extra punch against infantry.

Anyone know if it's possible to convert them easily to hold chain axes and where to actually get some? Forgeworld do some great ones but delivery is so much for such a small product

If you dont mind 3rd party stuff, you can get lots of cool stuff at Anvil Industry.
https://anvilindustry.co.uk/The-Armoury/Close-Combat-Weapons

How much are shadowswords - pointswise and do any of you use guard tanks?

sturguard wrote:
How much are shadowswords - pointswise and do any of you use guard tanks?

I don't know, will look it up and add it.

And no because you're forced to field r&h, so ehhh, also no traits or stratagems.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I don't know if I've asked this before (probably have lol), but do you think that the rules for the non-legion Chaos warbands found in Vigilus Ablaze will ever be separated and put somewhere else?

who knows, I just wish they had put all the rules for these things, and from the minicodex into the v2 CSM codex :/

xenoterracide wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I don't know if I've asked this before (probably have lol), but do you think that the rules for the non-legion Chaos warbands found in Vigilus Ablaze will ever be separated and put somewhere else?

who knows, I just wish they had put all the rules for these things, and from the minicodex into the v2 CSM codex :/

Me too. I was combing the updated codex looking for them and was more than a bit peeved when I found out that I had to buy a $50 campaign book to get them.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

xenoterracide wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I don't know if I've asked this before (probably have lol), but do you think that the rules for the non-legion Chaos warbands found in Vigilus Ablaze will ever be separated and put somewhere else?

who knows, I just wish they had put all the rules for these things, and from the minicodex into the v2 CSM codex :/

Me too. I was combing the updated codex looking for them and was more than a bit peeved when I found out that I had to buy a $50 campaign book to get them.

Don’t forget to bring your Daemonkin Codex if your warlord’s a sorcerer

Meh, i still need more books but at this point i probably could've bought a whole other army instead of them...

Facing off against a gunline-ish Space Wolves army of Primaris, would Plasma bikers, Lord of Skulls and Demon Prince with claws be good options? They all deal 2 damage with some high AP.

On the terminator front I'm thinking of having 5 terminators, 1 with reaper Autocannon and the other 4 with combi plasma and chainaxes. With the mark of Slannesh I could either use them to deep strike in and hit a target hard but then probably die or could have them sit in with my havoc's and CSM delivering mid range fire power in the tree reroll bubble.

Only issue is they are about 190 PTS for 5 models but they do pack a punch and have an invulnerable save at least!

Rogerio134134 wrote:
On the terminator front I'm thinking of having 5 terminators, 1 with reaper Autocannon and the other 4 with combi plasma and chainaxes. With the mark of Slannesh I could either use them to deep strike in and hit a target hard but then probably die or could have them sit in with my havoc's and CSM delivering mid range fire power in the tree reroll bubble.

Only issue is they are about 190 PTS for 5 models but they do pack a punch and have an invulnerable save at least!

TBF, the regular Combibolters are good enough for such a 5 man unit.

So I'm rounding out my last, just watched a battle report and saw what votlw can do for bolters and thought to myself I should have a unit which can benefit from it.

(All my csm are red coursairs, and I'm mostly deamon engines)

I'm thinking terminators or bikers. What's the general consensus on which is better? Bikers seem better on paper to me because of the t4, mobility and less points. Can also add some plasma without losing the bolter shots.

Red corsairs cant use votlw, they are a renegade chapter.

 p5freak wrote:
Red corsairs cant use votlw, they are a renegade chapter.

yes but it'd be easy eneugh to deploy a black legion patrol detachment. toss in a chaos lord, a 10 man cultist squad and a 5 man terminator squad.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Facing off against a gunline-ish Space Wolves army of Primaris, would Plasma bikers, Lord of Skulls and Demon Prince with claws be good options? They all deal 2 damage with some high AP.

Yeah, they’re pretty good attack units. Main thing against Primaris Wolves is defence - they can outflank a load of Hellblasters and inflict grievous damage, so be prepared to screen valuable stuff that’s near a table edge. Also, try not to rely too much on hit modifiers - they have a strat that lets a unit ignore it. Or deep strikers - if a Rune Priest (librarian) can see their arrival, he can give a nearby unit a free round of shooting at them.

 p5freak wrote:
Red corsairs cant use votlw, they are a renegade chapter.

Sorry I should have been clear, I know that's the case. I have a black legion bat in my list, but nothing to really benefit from votlw at the moment.

Having seen what bolters with +1 wound can do I'm trying to work some into my list.

Choice is terminators or bikes, with bike I could possibly add in some plasma...

Hello again all, just back after an hiatus to ask whether (what with the CA and Vigilus tweaks since I was last around), there was currently a 'decent' or 'usable' terminator squad setup out there?

I believe last I heard, the only vaguely usable option was either all-cheap combi-bolters, or a squad of combi-plasmas?

Or, of course, using Blights instead.

JP Chaos Lord, JP sorcerer with prescience, 10 slaanesh termis with Combiplasma. Deepstrike em, cast prescience, Unleash 20 overcharged plasma shots, reroll 1s, use votlw, shoot again with endless cacophony.

Since I am getting no responses in the army list section, I'll leave it to you guys to help provide some clarity. I started building a CSM army from the new kits, then kind of decided my 30k Thousands Sons army doesnt see much use and its almost completely painted. I think I would rather finish this army off, rather than build a 3rd army. Although I am ok adding some non 30k units in, like maybe some cultists etc. I would just like your thoughts on this. I have LOTS of terminators (I actually have a 4th unit I didnt include in here)

So- Ill also be spending a CP on Council of Traitors

Vanguard Detachment- (Bringers of Despair Specialist Detachment)
Chaos Lord with jump pack, combiplasma, Ghorisvexs Teeth- Warlord Trait- First Amongst Traitors
5 terminators, 3 combiplasma, 2 combibolters, 1 powerfist, 1 chainfist, 3 chainaxes MoT
5 terminators, 3 combiplasma, 2 combibolters, 1 powerfist, 1 chainfist, 3 chainaxes MoT
5 terminators 5 combimeltas, 3 chainaxes, 1 powerfist, 1 chainfist MoT
(Yeah, some of the terminators are going to be expensive but they should pack a punch given twith the lord within 6 inches they reroll all hits)

Battalion
Sorcerer in terminator armor- MoT, Warp Time, Weaver of Fates - unholy fortitude (from council of traitors)
Dark Apostle- Trusted War- Leader (from council of traitors)
2 Dark Disciples

3 x 5 csm with chainreaper

5 chosen, 3 combiplasma, 1 plasmagun, 1 with pfist

Now the tricky stuff that I dont have points for etc that is still all painted (dont know how to work this in, not familiar enough with the rules)

2x Castellax-Achea Battle-automata with Æther-flame Cannon (I could count these as normal ones)
Thousand Sons Legion Osiron Pattern Contemptor Dreadnought with assault cannon and the blade, the assault cannon is magnetized the ccw is not sadly.
Magnus
2 space marine rapier quad mortars

Again all this is painted and looks good on the table top. First I dont know how much it costs point wise because of the forgeworld and next, I want a cohesive army that works together on the battlefield. I would like to keep the terminators the focus of the army. I am not opposed to adding units to support this- I thought maybe I would add a termite for the chosen so they could pop out and shoot. I also have a Xiphon that is not painted.

So things Im not sure of-
I dont know how to put in forgeworld units into my army.
I dont know how much said FW units cost as I am just used to 30k, not 40k.
What units would be good to add to my terminator core. I just ordered some FW Outrider bikes. I would just run them as normal CSM bikes, what do people think of bikes? I see you can replace 2 of the 3 bikes with combiplasma, do people like that option as the outriders have the bits for that. Any input would be greatly appreciated. I am thinking of adding in a unit of oblits as well as I love the new models, even though they dont match my 30k army look.

sturguard wrote:
Since I am getting no responses in the army list section, I'll leave it to you guys to help provide some clarity. I started building a CSM army from the new kits, then kind of decided my 30k Thousands Sons army doesnt see much use and its almost completely painted. I think I would rather finish this army off, rather than build a 3rd army. Although I am ok adding some non 30k units in, like maybe some cultists etc. I would just like your thoughts on this. I have LOTS of terminators (I actually have a 4th unit I didnt include in here)

So- Ill also be spending a CP on Council of Traitors

Vanguard Detachment- (Bringers of Despair Specialist Detachment)
Chaos Lord with jump pack, combiplasma, Ghorisvexs Teeth- Warlord Trait- First Amongst Traitors
5 terminators, 3 combiplasma, 2 combibolters, 1 powerfist, 1 chainfist, 3 chainaxes MoT
5 terminators, 3 combiplasma, 2 combibolters, 1 powerfist, 1 chainfist, 3 chainaxes MoT
5 terminators 5 combimeltas, 3 chainaxes, 1 powerfist, 1 chainfist MoT
(Yeah, some of the terminators are going to be expensive but they should pack a punch given twith the lord within 6 inches they reroll all hits)

Battalion
Sorcerer in terminator armor- MoT, Warp Time, Weaver of Fates - unholy fortitude (from council of traitors)
Dark Apostle- Trusted War- Leader (from council of traitors)
2 Dark Disciples

3 x 5 csm with chainreaper

5 chosen, 3 combiplasma, 1 plasmagun, 1 with pfist

Now the tricky stuff that I dont have points for etc that is still all painted (dont know how to work this in, not familiar enough with the rules)

2x Castellax-Achea Battle-automata with Æther-flame Cannon (I could count these as normal ones)
Thousand Sons Legion Osiron Pattern Contemptor Dreadnought with assault cannon and the blade, the assault cannon is magnetized the ccw is not sadly.
Magnus
2 space marine rapier quad mortars

Again all this is painted and looks good on the table top. First I dont know how much it costs point wise because of the forgeworld and next, I want a cohesive army that works together on the battlefield. I would like to keep the terminators the focus of the army. I am not opposed to adding units to support this- I thought maybe I would add a termite for the chosen so they could pop out and shoot. I also have a Xiphon that is not painted.

So things Im not sure of-
I dont know how to put in forgeworld units into my army.
I dont know how much said FW units cost as I am just used to 30k, not 40k.
What units would be good to add to my terminator core. I just ordered some FW Outrider bikes. I would just run them as normal CSM bikes, what do people think of bikes? I see you can replace 2 of the 3 bikes with combiplasma, do people like that option as the outriders have the bits for that. Any input would be greatly appreciated. I am thinking of adding in a unit of oblits as well as I love the new models, even though they dont match my 30k army look.

The best way to test out what points and options FW 30k models can be used as in 40k is to download battlescribe and add in a FW heratic astartes detachment. There you can browse what has rules and their points.

Bikes are ok now with bolter discipline but I wouldn't invest in combi plasma particularly. They're best imo as harassment and objective grabbing units. To keep 24" away and shoot a lot of bolter shots is useful.

Oblits are powerful but expensive, with VotLW, endless Cacophony prescience and the devastation battery lord nearby they'll kill pretty much any vehicle in the game when they drop for about 440 points (if you take a jump pack lord to drop in with them). However they really need to come in turn 2 after some space is made for them and unfortunately that's what your termies will be doing too.

You could run Magnus as a big distraction, especially turn 2 with -1 to hit and 3++ but you generally would take Ahriman and 2 winged daemon princes to support him and blast around psychic powers.

Finally my pick would be 3 Lord discordants to support this list. They'll draw fire they're relatively tough, cheap and killy plus they're my favourite model from the new chaos lineup.

small_gods

Ok so I found I made some mistakes in my warlord etc so how about this?

Vanguard Detachment- (Bringers of Despair Specialist Detachment)
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor- Chosen of the Warmaster- Foecleaver
5 terminators, 3 combiplasma, 2 combibolters, 1 powerfist, 1 chainfist, 3 chainaxes MoT
5 terminators, 3 combiplasma, 2 combibolters, 1 powerfist, 1 chainfist, 3 chainaxes MoT
5 terminators 5 combimeltas, 3 chainaxes, 1 powerfist, 1 chainfist MoT

So, now at least I have the Bringers of Despair detachment and my lord outfitted correctly.

I get your point about the oblits, and terminators kind of competing but what if I start the terminators on the board? They are fairly durable, they have a range of 30" with their guns (move and shoot) and all 3 squads should be in range to reroll all their shots.I could also keep the sorcerer and dark apostle nearby to buff those units (give them -1 to be hit, and +1 to their invul save). They should attract enough attention to let the normal CSM units do some damage freely as well as the bikes. The oblits can then come in turn 2 and do their thing. So my question is, if I put the terminators on the board to start with my CSM and bikes, what do I need to add that is going to compete with the terminators for attention?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe I put the plasma terminators on the board and keep the melta ones in reserve to drop with the oblits simply because they will never get a chance to use their melta while walking.

I suppose with the black legion trait you could advance and fire with the units on the board and bikes plus them should clear a space for oblits and melta termies.

You need two sorcerers, the powers are just too good to miss, especially death hex. And I would give them mark of slanesh for double shooting.

As I see it you have 2 options depending on points. More Terminators or a lord discordant or two.

How about havocs, would they draw fire from the termies? I was thinking autocannon havocs since they would be cheap and have the range to stay out of most return fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or maybe 2 mixed squads of 2 autocannons/2 lascannons?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So i think given I wont have any of the heavy hitters or autoinclude units, Ill need alot of command points so I can constantly ensure the models on the board are rerolling misses or getting to shoot twice. I think I need to get up to around 12 with the additional CPs on 5's that gives me around 15-16. So I guess I need to aim for 2 battlions and the vanguard. I think a cheap battlion doesnt hurt me as I could use the extra HQs anyways. What would be a cheap battlion that would support just lots of csm bodies? I could always go 3x10 cultists and a sorcerer and jump pack lord but I am not sure how much those cultists will help.

Red cosairs are the obvious choice if you're wanting cheap CP, 2x master of executions and 15 csm come in at 355 points, will generally hold their own and give you 8CP so you're at 14 with a spearhead and second battalion. Which should be plenty. You could stick sorcerers in there for a few extra points and they will still work with your black legion stuff.

If you're wanting to keep it black legion you could fill out a brigade fairly easily with 3x3 bikers and 3x autocannon havocs or some obliterators etc.

Havocs work well if you have a decent ammount of LOS blovking terrain because they can move and shoot without penalty, they're pretty squishy in the open.

I see others are interested in terminators too, I think my plan is to use 5 termies with bolters and an autocannon as a mid range firepower unit, just the 5 of them will pump out 16 bolter and 4 Autocannon shots per turn which is a good amount. I play iron warriors so firing into enemies in cover is good for clearing enemies off objectives.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
I see others are interested in terminators too, I think my plan is to use 5 termies with bolters and an autocannon as a mid range firepower unit, just the 5 of them will pump out 16 bolter and 4 Autocannon shots per turn which is a good amount. I play iron warriors so firing into enemies in cover is good for clearing enemies off objectives.

I can reccomend that squad, especially if you go with Chainaxes.
The squad is cheap relatively and with you beeing legion you get VotLW and cacophony.
It's an Utility unit first and foremost.

I just played a fun "Monster Mash" list this weekend, thought I'd share. I used: an Alpha Legion Battalion consisting of a Demon Prince of Slaanesh, Biker Sorcerer (Warptime and Miasma of Pestilence), a Lord Discordant, 26 cultists, 2 x 5 CSMs, a Blood Slaughterer of Khorne, and 2 Maulerfiends; I made that a Soulforged Pack. I also took an Alpha Legion Vanguard with a Warpsmith and 3 Helbrutes with Fists/Scourges. Last, I took a patrol of Abaddon and 30 cultists. We played ITC and I think the army doesn't give up kills very easily, and is still very fast to get Objectives. It causes a lot of target priority confusion, since everything is pretty nasty in combat.