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I have a buddy who plays Tau (and does a good job at it too), but he thinks all Tau should be BS 4. What do you guys think?

Um...no. There's markerlights for that.

Fluff-wise, there's something about them living short lifespans and having bad vision.

I agree that crisis and broadsides should be BS 4, but nothing else.

I would agree, with Tau being an arguably underpowered army these days, BS 4 might put them back into balance.

Check out this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/267034.page

Discussed this issue to literal death!

Boiled down to this, I believe:

I WANT TAU TO HAVE BS4 SO I AM UBER! (I kid); Tau having BS4 has some fluff support.

BS4 would solve some of Tau's problems.

BS4 would not really solve any of Tau's problems.

Tau having BS4 has very little fluff support.

Tau not having BS4 has some fluff support.

Do Guardsmen have BS 4? No? Are Tau Fire Caste Warriors not simply Guardsmen of their race? Okay, this point is moot. I mean really, with a lifespan ranging at 40 years, unless you've got plot armor, you're not going to be trained to perfection. Space Marines train for thirty years or more as scouts before they even get their 'BS4' since they need experience. So no, I find this idea absurd and not fluff-based. Now, I do think they need to improve Markerlights, such as cost, but hey, that's been pointed out quite a bit.

I think Tau shas'ui should get +1 BS instead of +1 attack. Suits should be at least BS4. But your average Fire Warrior absolutely not, that's what markerlights are for.

lets just give them all BS2 and remove their helmets.

that would be fluff based.

why is everything a blur? o.o'

Nice one...
"Woah man, it's hard to believe in the greater good when s*** is flying everywhere at subsonic speeds!"

Anyways, I think that they should only have BS3. With BS4, then they'll kill around 1/6 more guys than normal, which isn't good.

This has been discussed to death. I don't think basic FWs should get Bs4 as standard but Tau do need an over haul and do need a huge boost they are by far the weakest army in 40K as it stands and Aun Va is the worst unit by miles and miles I literally woudln;t take him if he cost MINUS 100 points that's how bad he is!

Captain Solon wrote:lets just give them all BS2 and remove their helmets.

that would be fluff based.

why is everything a blur? o.o'

No it's not. From Lexicanum on Tau:
"Their eyes can see into the infrared and ultraviolet. Tau eyesight is good, but they focus on distant objects slower than humans." - http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau
Everything is not a blur to them, it just takes slightly longer to focus on it, what the difference in time between a human & Tau would be idk.

FlingitNow wrote:This has been discussed to death. I don't think basic FWs should get Bs4 as standard but Tau do need an over haul and do need a huge boost they are by far the weakest army in 40K as it stands and Aun Va is the worst unit by miles and miles I literally woudln;t take him if he cost MINUS 100 points that's how bad he is!

Take Farsight with minsquad FWs and full retinue... Profit... Tau have alot of cheese lists atm.. but like Dark Eldar, they need an overhaul to be more versitile (aka able to use 75% of the list instead of 20%) A good tau player running cookiecutter lists will be a more then formidable opponent, but then again, I've always wanted to see Kroot and Stealthsuits preform even HALF as good as their DOW counterparts.....

As far as Warriors with BS 4... Ha! (Echoing) That's what markerlights are for. Suits can get it with upgrades (unless you think they should be BS 5 with upgrades...) but then again assuming they get a 5th edition codex broadsides will probably be Base BS 10 and Crisis (now troops) will come with Powerfists (to keep up with the trend of other 5th edition updates) ......

Farsight bomb has been largely curtailed by 5th Ed as have the "cookiecutter" fireknife and deathrain lists. In a game where the opponent can charge you on turn one and they win as soon as that happens Tau are always going to struggle.

Boring castling every time isn't even the answer to a proper alphastrike marine list and neither is the Ninja piecemeal my army for easy destruction option. Whilst both those options work well against an unprepared or unskilled opponent they fail to a decent opponent who knows what he's doing.

BS4 on FW?

No

Black Antelope wrote:BS4 on FW?

No

Have to agree with this. I can see it on other things already suggested here, but not on the basic warrior.

They definately make up for the difference with markerlights and one of the most effective squad-wide weapons in the game: the pulse rifle.
S5, AP5 and 30 inch range= the bain of Guardsmen everywhere

JSK-Fox wrote:Anyways, I think that they should only have BS3. With BS4, then they'll kill around 1/6 more guys than normal, which isn't good.

1/3 more stuff. You divide by the expected hits at BS3, not the total dice rolled.



But yeah, Tau don't need BS4. While they are presently a weak list BS4 is a boring fix. The potential is there for markerlights and other weapons to make them a really unique army. They need some different points values and a stronger markerlight system, not a stat boost.

They definately make up for the difference with markerlights and one of the most effective squad-wide weapons in the game: the pulse rifle.
S5, AP5 and 30 inch range= the bain of Guardsmen everywhere

Lets go points for points 20 Guardsmen with first ranmk fire second rank fire against 10 Tau. FWs go first as they have longer range we'll assume both units are in cover:

10 FWs
10 Pulse rifles shots, 5 hits, 4.167 wounds, 4.167 dead - round to 4 Dead

16 Guard
32 Shots, 16 hits, 8 wounds, 4 dead...

6 FWs
6 Shots, 3 hits, 2.5 wounds, 2.5 dead - 3 dead

13 Guard
26 shots, 13 hits, 7.5 wounds, 3.75 dead - 3 dead

3 FWs
3 shots, 1.5 hits, 1.25 wounds - 2 dead

11 Guard
22 shots, 11 hits, 5.5 wounds, 2.75 dead - 3 dead...

That's in the open with massive round error in the Tau favour. Lets assume that they are in cover as normally happens:

10 FWs
10 Pulse rifles shots, 5 hits, 4.167 wounds, 4.167 dead - round to 2 Dead

18 Guard
36 Shots, 18 hits, 9 wounds, 4.5 dead, 4 dead...

It just gets worse and worse for the Tau.

I would hardly say you made a fair comparison. Guard have a 30pt upgrade and you compared both to in cover, where Tau would not have the advantage of their armor (both of your situations were in cover). Not only that, but you're not considering that just for Guardsmen to get close enough to shoot, if you play Tau correctly against Guardsmen, they will have to sustain a round of shooting from Tau with no rebuttle, as Pulse Rifles have a longer range. Heck, Guard can remain stationary, Tau pull up in their pimp-fish 30" away, and the Guard are out of range and can make no return fire! Lastly, FRFSRF requires the passing of Leadership Tests at Ld8, which will fail roughly half the time (Ld7 being exactly 50-50 chance), unless you take Leadership upgrades like Commissars, but there is still a failure rate you are not considering.

Basically, you left a lot out and assumed the worst case scenario for the Tau player, and Tau didn't do horrendously bad (as in, they are getting beaten up, but not wiped off the field). So in a worse case scenario, where everything is going well for a superior value of Guardsmen, Tau get beat up pretty well, but they aren't getting annihilated......


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Guard and Tau in the open (yes it can happen) in Turn 1, Guard 29" away from Tau. Tau will get first turn. 20 Guardsmen v. 10 Fire Warriors

Turn 1
Tau-10
10 shots, 5 hits, 4.17 wound, (no armor saves, as Pulse Rifles are AP5), 4.17 dead.

Guard-15.83 : Must move to be within range of Fire Warriors.
0 shots, 0 hits, 0 wound, 0 saves, 0 dead

Turn 2
Tau-10
10 shots, 5 hit, 4.17 wound, (still no armor saves), 4.17 dead.

Guard-11.7
11.7 shots, 5.83 hit, 2.917 wound, 1.4583 saved, 1.4583 dead.

Turn 3
Tau-8.5417
8.5417 shots, 4.271 hit, 3.559 wound, 0 saved, 3.559 dead.

Guard-8.1076
8.1076 shots, 4.0538 hit, 2.0269 wound, 1.0135 saved, 1.0135 dead.

Turn 4...... Well, we see where this is going. As ranges close, currently Rapid Fire would occur at the same ranges, as per RAW, but the majority of people I know would agree that Rapid Fire should occur at R/2 rather than 12", so if that is ever fixed, Tau will have another advantage. But the increased number of shots will just have a similar ratio. In cover, Guard will fair better, but I hypothesize they will still lose over time. That extra turn of shooting Tau get, plus always wounding Guardsmen on 2+ is just a lot to over come since Guard has a shorter range and will only wound on a 4+.

I would hardly say you made a fair comparison. Guard have a 30pt upgrade and you compared both to in cover, where Tau would not have the advantage of their armor (both of your situations were in cover). Not only that, but you're not considering that just for Guardsmen to get close enough to shoot, if you play Tau correctly against Guardsmen, they will have to sustain a round of shooting from Tau with no rebuttle, as Pulse Rifles have a longer range. Heck, Guard can remain stationary, Tau pull up in their pimp-fish 30" away, and the Guard are out of range and can make no return fire! Lastly, FRFSRF requires the passing of Leadership Tests at Ld8, which will fail roughly half the time (Ld7 being exactly 50-50 chance), unless you take Leadership upgrades like Commissars, but there is still a failure rate you are not considering.

Actually the first example isn't in cover notice how the Guard aren't getting any save. The FWs go first to represent that free round of shooting, remember the FWs have to be stationary to shoot 30" so your idea of pulling up in the fish 30" away and shooting couldn't actually happen.

Chance of success of aleadership at LD 7 = 58%, LD8 = 72% with vox caster re-roll 92%. With Commisar = 99%.

You say not wiped out but they were wiped out with 11 guardsmen left even when the Guardsmen were out in the open (which would never happen).

We can give the Tau BS4 from MLs (say they have 2 ML drones for 60 points) if you like and still out in the open (remember MLs are far more variable than the almost certain orders):

10 FWs
10 Pulse rifles shots, 7 hits, 5.5 wounds, 5.55 dead - round to 6 Dead

14 Guard
28 Shots, 14 hits, 7.5 wounds, 3.5 dead - 4 dead

6 FWs
6 Shots, 4 hits, 3.3 wounds, 3.33 dead - 3 dead

11 Guard
22 shots, 11 hits, 5.5 wounds, 2.25 dead - 2 dead

4 FWs
4 shots, 2.66 hits, 2.22 wounds - 3 dead

8 Guard
16 shots, 8 hits, 4 wounds, 2 dead - 2 dead...

2 FWs
2 shots, 1.33 hits, 1.1 wounds, 1.1 dead - 1 dead

7 Guard
14, 7 hits, 3.5 wounds, 1.75 dead - game over

Put the cover we all know that the guard would actually be in and it is a non-contest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If the Tau were going first why would the IG player set up his guys within 30"? He set them up 31"+ away the Tau player woudl have to move into 30" range (could not shoot that turn) the IG could then move to within 24" meaning the Tau would get first round of shooting n. To claim they'd get 2 rounds of shooting in to just bizarre and it is the orders that make IG work and they are a pretty much guaranteed thing rather than the very up and down MLs.

FlingitNow wrote:Lets go points for points 20 Guardsmen with first ranmk fire second rank fire against 10 Tau. FWs go first as they have longer range we'll assume both units are in cover:...

But in your math, you are correct, Guardsmen did not receive saves.

I'm pretty sure statistically you have approximately a 50-50 chance at Ld7. As a matter of fact, I'm completely sure. It is why the game of craps is so popular. Maybe "simple" math your numbers are correct, but run a statistical analysis (way to complicated to right out using forum posting, as it requires integration, n/r rule, ! rule, and an expected variable z chart), and it comes out to approximately 50-50. So yes, if you buy a Platoon Command Squad (30pts) and a vox-caster for both units (5pts and 5pts, total 10pts) and a Commissar (35pts), a successful test at Ld9 is pretty certain, but that's..... 75pts worth of stuff that the Tau player isn't buying.... huh, funny how that works.... math I mean. After all that, you get four more Lasguns at BS3 though, and two poor CC units with Las and Bolt Pistols, neither are 24" range, however.

If we assume the Tau roll up to 31", and the Guard move up 6" (so 25" away), then Tau still get an extra round of shooting. So yes, it does work, you just have to use tactics (which is what most Tau players fail to recognize). If the Guardsmen don't move, then neither side does any damage, but nothing gets done. So it is boring and means nothing. If Tau move into their own range, Guard are still out of Tau range, and have to move in their turn, still. So Tau might have one turn less, but that doesn't show how their extra range can play into their hands. If a Tau player can not do this, they are not doing it right, which is hardly the army's fault. If Guard spends all their points on Ogryns, Ratlings, and Storm Troopers, it is not the army's fault if the player fails against orks, it was a poor choice of the player's to buy those units. If Space Marines spend all their points on Devastators, only to have them walking about the entire time, again, not the army or the unit's fault, but the player's.

Tossing an idea in that would "kinda" give tau BS4 (but probably won't happen till they get a 5th dex) would be something similar in essance to bladestorm but instead of forgoing firing the in next turn they take a turn in which they cannot move or shoot to 'activate' "Kauyon" which would increase their BS by 1 on their next firing (not being able to move inbetween and not stacking, so for instance, a Firewarrior squad activates Kauyon in the movement phase and cannot move or shoot, the following turn, or any number of turns they continue to wait ((not moving or shooting)) they would recieve +1 bs on their shots for that turn.) This could be for any tau model such as Firewarrior, Stealthsuits, Pathfinders, Crisis Suits, Broadsides. Not for Drones/Vehicles.
(Patient Hunter... "Aiming"

Vehicles(Hammerhead, Skyray), Crisis suits and Broadsides could also have "Mont'Ka", no moving for the turn activated, but you must fire, and you may fire all weapons at any number of targets (reguardless of wargear) twice (similar to bladestorm) however by doing this you may not assault/move/shoot/go to ground(unless pinned) for the following two turns (You may still run on those turns however if you see fit) Skyrays would be limited by their ammo of course.

But then again, the above probably deserve their own thread, just so ideas that would make tau a bit more interesting (without shifting too much balance)

As far as statistics

Potential Dice results
1-1 <7
1-2 <7
1-3 <7
1-4 <7
1-5 <7
1-6 7
2-1 <7
2-2 <7
2-3 <7
2-4 <7
2-5 7
2-6
3-1 <7
3-2 <7
3-3 <7
3-4 7
3-5
3-6
4-1 <7
4-2 <7
4-3 7
4-4
4-5
4-6
5-1 <7
5-2 7
5-3
5-4
5-5
5-6
6-1 7
6-2
6-3
6-4
6-5
6-6

36 results 21 <7
58.3% Chance to get <7

at LD 8 26 <8
72.2% chance to get <7

with an ~3% chance to get 1-1 (an extra order, making your enemy reroll coversaves for instance)

Craps has nothing to do with 50% chance to get a 7 even if you went with the other breakdown

1-1 <7
1-2 <7
1-3 <7
1-4 <7
1-5 <7
1-6 7
2-2 <7
2-3 <7
2-4 <7
2-5 7
2-6
3-3 <7
3-4 7
3-5
3-6
4-4
4-5
4-6
5-5
5-6
6-6

(No repeats)

21 possibilities 3@ 7. 12 <7
Chance of 7 =~14.3%
Chance of <7 =~57.1

@ld 8 chance of passing = ~71.4%

Chance of 1-1= ~5%

The odds are definately in your favor in terms of Leadership tests... and thats not considering taking Kell or someone with a similar rule...

@ DAR : You're running a strict analysis of dice, not a statistical analysis. Without doing all the math right now, I remember getting a 7 or below is approximately 51.8% or something like that. It doesn't seem like it should make sense, but once you learn how it all works, it does.

Kell is ridiculously expensive to take for Orders (or anything else, for that matter). Orders are, at best, an interesting bit of fluff. In my practical experience with orders, they are unreliable and their impact is generally negligible. I would not suggest they be gotten rid of, because they can help, but in all honesty, the only two really worth taking is "Get Back in the Fight!" and FRFSRF. But at I said, for practical analysis, they aren't applying here as they are not being point costed as part of the units, nor is their success/failure rate being factored in as well. You don't round your number until the very end, so technically you could mathematically account for all of this and get a good comparison.

If I were a Tau commander, facing FRFSRF, it would behoove me to move my units to within Rapid Fire range, as the FRFSRF effect is far less effective (Tau get 2 shots, Guard get 3, a 50% boost over Tau compared to a 100% boost at range), if I couldn't get a first round of shooting in, and being assaulted wasn't an issue, or negligible/to my favor/etc... I would be interested in seeing that math.

Skinnattittar wrote:@ DAR : You're running a strict analysis of dice, not a statistical analysis. Without doing all the math right now, I remember getting a 7 or below is approximately 51.8% or something like that. It doesn't seem like it should make sense, but once you learn how it all works, it does.

Without proof, thats not saying anything. Effectively you are saying "Well, while you say 2 + 2 = 4, in my opinion I recall 2 + 2 = 17, I dont remember exactally how, but I know I got that result, if you learn how the math works, you'd see it that way as well". Condescension does not a well argument make.

www.random.org (I just did the dice roller 10 times and got <7, 7 of the times, thats a truely random method of obtaining the statistical information, however if you use actual math, and any of the tools in Excel, you will get the results I posted previously)

Skinnattittar wrote:
Kell is ridiculously expensive to take for Orders (or anything else, for that matter). Orders are, at best, an interesting bit of fluff. In my practical experience with orders, they are unreliable and their impact is generally negligible. I would not suggest they be gotten rid of, because they can help, but in all honesty, the only two really worth taking is "Get Back in the Fight!" and FRFSRF. But at I said, for practical analysis, they aren't applying here as they are not being point costed as part of the units, nor is their success/failure rate being factored in as well. You don't round your number until the very end, so technically you could mathematically account for all of this and get a good comparison.

Orders are incredible, not taking them is merely nerfing your list (which I guess adds some balance as IG is currently one of the strongest lists in 5th Edition atm...).

Skinnattittar wrote:
If I were a Tau commander, facing FRFSRF, it would behoove me to move my units to within Rapid Fire range, as the FRFSRF effect is far less effective (Tau get 2 shots, Guard get 3, a 50% boost over Tau compared to a 100% boost at range), if I couldn't get a first round of shooting in, and being assaulted wasn't an issue, or negligible/to my favor/etc... I would be interested in seeing that math.

When you have the ability to fly valks/vendettas (Easily the most op transport in the game right now) 24" and grav-shoot troops, it should not be too difficult to have the guard in RF range. Also, you mentioned that Tau are getting first turn... this means that IG have the advantage of deployment, which typically mean the Tau are gonna lose.

I'm surprised that Fling has not brought up the idea of just taking 20 veterans with cloaks meshed walking across the field. This would confer a 3+ save at all times and a 2+ if you decide to go to ground (thus making you more surviable to a Vindicator shell then a full strength Termi squad) and your Veterans are BS4 base....

I would hardly say IG are the strongest army. Tournament results are enough to speak for that. Without getting majorly off topic, I will simply say; The IG codex is new, and has dramatically changed how IG work, most people are still in system shock, but once they figure out the new Guard, they will see they are just much more flexible than they used to be.

On topic, there are an infinite number of variations and comparisons against Fire Warriors and anything, many of which can show Fire Warriors alone are at a disadvantage. That is not our purpose here. We are not trying to show how Fire Warriors are inferior to any given unit. Why? Well because to any given unit in the game, there are units that they are inferior to. Aggregate units, like Guardsmen and Fire Warriors are what need to be used for this sort of comparison.

Normally, actually, I compare a given unit to Space Marines (at 16ppm), rather than against Guardsmen. I like the idea of a Space Marine being the "base" unit in the game, the most basic comparison unit. Why? Well, they are the most common and their relatively high point value and basic attributes make adding and subtracting from their base cost easier. Guardsmen are very low in points, so adding or subtracting from them would be difficult (as the ratios become much more extreme as you approach 0pts).

Not to mention heavy weapons teams in cover FTW. 60 points for 3 heavy weapons? 1 crisis suit costs that much.

@ Ren, yeah veterans are BS4 and still cheaper and have better options than FWs. Just take two autocannons and you outrange the FWs and kill them and the unit would still be cheaper than a FW squad.

agnosto wrote:Not to mention heavy weapons teams in cover FTW. 60 points for 3 heavy weapons? 1 crisis suit costs that much.

@ Ren, yeah veterans are BS4 and still cheaper and have better options than FWs. Just take two autocannons and you outrange the FWs and kill them and the unit would still be cheaper than a FW squad.

And if I take an equal value number of Harlequins I can butcher BOTH forces with relative ease. Assuming I can cover the distance without getting shot up (ridiculously easy on the majority of tables). Or! An equal unit of Plague Marines! Or a Land Raider! If neither force has a Meltagun or Lascannon, it will make short work of everyone! Ah! How about Assault Terminators! Or what about x and what about y? Maybe even a, b, c, d, and m! Man.... Guardsmen and Fire Warriors both are such HORRIBLE unit choices! They should bother be free!



In all honesty... I'm going to retire from this thread. This has all been gone over to death! I posted the link earlier, if you want to check that out and find something new, go ahead and try. What I will agree on is that Tau need a new codex and Fire Warriors need a face lift. However, BS4 is not the solution and is not a proper fit for the army.

Now you're just being ridiculous.
I'm comparing troop choices here, which IG veterans are (correct me if I'm wrong). I use IG because the theme of the army is somewhat similar (mechanized) and the statlines are similar.
What's to stop an IG player from taking an entire veteran army? Along with cheap sources of heavy weapons and endless variety in tanks and so forth.

I propose something like this:
Firewarrior Squad………………………………………………………… 110 points
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Fire Warrior 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 8 4+
Shas’ui 3 3 3 3 1 3 2 9 4+
Heavy Team 2 3 3 3 2 2 2 8 4+

Composition:
1 Shas’ui
9 Firewarriors
Wargear:
Armor
Pulse rifle
Bonding knife
Photon and EMP grenades

Unit Type:
Infantry

Options:
The Shas’ui may take one wargear item from the armory.

Transport:
The squad may take
a devilfish as a dedicated
transport.

Any firewarrior may replace his pulse rifle with a pulse carbine……….free

Replace two firewarriors with a firewarrior Heavy weapons team armed with one of the following:
Missile Pod………….. 10 points
Plasma Rifle…………. 20 points
Burst Cannon………. 8 points

agnosto wrote:
I propose something like this:
Firewarrior Squad………………………………………………………… 110 points
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Fire Warrior 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 8 4+
Shas’ui 3 3 3 3 1 3 2 9 4+
Heavy Team 2 3 3 3 2 2 2 8 4+

Composition:
1 Shas’ui
9 Firewarriors
Wargear:
Armor
Pulse rifle
Bonding knife
Photon and EMP grenades

Unit Type:
Infantry

Options:
The Shas’ui may take one wargear item from the armory.

Transport:
The squad may take
a devilfish as a dedicated
transport.

Any firewarrior may replace his pulse rifle with a pulse carbine……….free

Replace two firewarriors with a firewarrior Heavy weapons team armed with one of the following:
Missile Pod………….. 10 points
Plasma Rifle…………. 20 points
Burst Cannon………. 8 points

Still sounds pretty terrible. Assuming the HWT cannot move and shoot, I don't see many Tau players ever taking this option (let alone wanting it). Giving the Shazoooie a single piece of wargear is also somewhat strange unless you are limiting his options from the armory as well.

if you are going to go to the trouble of making a new troops choice for Tau I would see something more fair being more along the lines of THIS:

~Firewarrior Shas'vre~
These firewarriors are towards the end first cycle of military service, soon to be placed in the admiriable XV8 or XV88 Battle Suit, sometimes lead by senior members whom have already been granted this honor.

Firewarrior Shas'vre Squad………………………………………………………… 180 points (0-2)
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Fire Warrior 2 4 3 3 1 2 1 8 4+
Crisis Shas’el 3 4 5 4 3 3 3 9 3+
Broadside Shas'el 3 4 5 4 3 3 2 9 2+

Composition:
12 Firewarriors

Wargear:
Armor
Pulse rifle
Pulse Pistol
Bonding knife
Photon and EMP grenades
Unit Type:
Infantry

Options:
One Firewarror Shas'vre may replace all of his wargear to be upgraded to either a Crisis Shas'el or Broadside Shas'el for 50 points and may be given any options normally allowed by the chosen Shas'el.*

*A Broadside Shas'el has the same wargear options as a Broadside Shas'vre

Transport:
Unless a Shas'el is taken, the squad may take
a devilfish as a dedicated transport.

Any firewarrior may replace his pulse rifle with a pulse carbine……….free

Up to three firewarriors may replace their Pulse Rifle with either a
Flamer - 5pts each
Fusion Blaster - 10pts each
Plasma Rifle - 15pts each
Rail Rifle - 15pts each

Just as an idea?

My idea was more a troop choice while yours seems more like an elite with them being a 'vre squad.

Admittedly, my concept could stand some more thought but I, personally, like the idea of heavy weapons teams.

As for the ability to move and shoot, all those weapons are assault or rapid fire so I don't see why they couldn't.

I just used the term "heavy" as the weapons are suit weapons manned by a two-man team. My thinking was along the lines of modern heavy weapons teams in the military, a team of 2 to carry and operate the mobile weapon system.

Maybe changing the burst cannon to a long barrel burst cannon makes more sense considering the range.

I don't think any of the heavy options are OP considering you're actually losing shots (in rapid fire range) since it takes 2 FWs to man the weapons.