Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

AresX8 wrote:

Leth wrote:I am curious why everyone is

A. only talking about the assault failing, and not talking about the assault succeeding. I cant tell you the number of times I have been 13 or 14 inches out and had to take my unit else where and had my tactics turn around. I like the risk reward idea. Now an impossible charge becomes more likely. Also what is the chance of rolling a double 1, 3% ish?

B. Talking about all the combinations that are capable in the rules. Lets not talk about what other people are capable of playing, rather what combinations you would actually play.

I am happy that I can now create a pseudo deathwatch army. Get a xenos inquisitor and a small Grey Knights squad. Add them to my regular marines. It should be a lot of fun and I look forward to it. I think most armies get closer to each other in strength, and while most people see allies as a unbalancing factor. I truly believe that they can be a powerful balancing factor across the board as well.

Because people on the Internet love to focus on the negative as it's what everyone else is doing. It's mob mentality.

What else are you going to talk about? You can only post so many times about how you can't wait to give all your money up.

An 8 inch assault, something impossible before, now has a significant chance of happening.

azazel the cat wrote:Something just occurred to me: if Dreadnoughts have 3 hull points, then the Venerable rule just became one of the most overpriced pieces of wargear in the game.

Lol, yeah, i had forgotten about this, it is so damn retardly expensive it is not even funny.

As to the how much softer AR13 and bellow now are, lets not also forget, that now you WILL be killed on the 3rd glance, and before you COULD survive a PEN, now after the 2nd glance your are toasted EITHER WAY.

Pyriel- wrote:

To some one that has ACTUALLY READ OR SEEN the book, is it true that after X amount of glancing hits, the next glance WRECKS the vehicle?. That would pretty much kill this edition for me, i mean what is a futuristic battle game with out tanks or mechs...?

It´s called a miniature tabletop game.
A nice change to all the idiotic my-line-of-vehicles vs your-line-of-vehicles and almost no actual miniatures ever seen.

I think the game you are looking for is called Necromunda, now Move along...

There should be a negative effect for you failing to get that charge though.

Because it allows, armies 12 inches out to be like what the hell lets go for it. And that I know of there is no minus to rolling under except you don't charge.

shank911 wrote:There should be a negative effect for you failing to get that charge though.

Because it allows, armies 12 inches out to be like what the hell lets go for it. And that I know of there is no minus to rolling under except you don't charge.

There is, you are target to snap fire either if you make it or not.

Eh, there's no negative effect now in 5th, I say we keep it that way. Not getting to assault seems like a negative enough thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xxvaderxx wrote:

shank911 wrote:There should be a negative effect for you failing to get that charge though.

Because it allows, armies 12 inches out to be like what the hell lets go for it. And that I know of there is no minus to rolling under except you don't charge.

There is, you are target to snap fire either if you make it or not.

Oh right, and that..

Leth wrote:I am curious why everyone is

A. only talking about the assault failing, and not talking about the assault succeeding. I cant tell you the number of times I have been 13 or 14 inches out and had to take my unit else where and had my tactics turn around. I like the risk reward idea. Now an impossible charge becomes more likely. Also what is the chance of rolling a double 1, 3% ish?

For me, when it comes to the random elements of the game, I'm going to plan on statistical averages. This means under the new rules, my assault moves are going to be based around getting my pieces within at least 7" and rolling statistcally average. So unless I'm absolutely desperate and making a hail mary play, any roll of more than 7" is rarely going to help me. On the other hand, if I get within 7" as I plan for and roll a 3 or 4, I get screwed. In other words a random charge on 2d6 is is going to hurt me far more often than it's going to help me.

Leth wrote:I am curious why everyone is

A. only talking about the assault failing, and not talking about the assault succeeding. I cant tell you the number of times I have been 13 or 14 inches out and had to take my unit else where and had my tactics turn around. I like the risk reward idea. Now an impossible charge becomes more likely. Also what is the chance of rolling a double 1, 3% ish?

B. Talking about all the combinations that are capable in the rules. Lets not talk about what other people are capable of playing, rather what combinations you would actually play.

I am happy that I can now create a pseudo deathwatch army. Get a xenos inquisitor and a small Grey Knights squad. Add them to my regular marines. It should be a lot of fun and I look forward to it. I think most armies get closer to each other in strength, and while most people see allies as a unbalancing factor. I truly believe that they can be a powerful balancing factor across the board as well.

I can answer A in the viewpoint of a low T low Sv xenos player: DE.

Because fleet doesn't grant run + charge, in case you missed it. So, if we ignore the additional numbers from movement phrase, fleet assault units lost a guaranteed 6" on top of the 6" run, which would still get them to 12" charge if they're lucky, while non-fleet units all gained similar effect as 5th ed fleet units!

Strategically speaking, unless I'm very desperate in trying my chances, I'd never risk putting my fragile units in the open, this is why DE players either transport spam or WWP their CC units close, we don't have the luxury of power armour to stand in the open, enemies know that and will not hesitate in mowing our assault units down should they get the chance... And random distance is just GW's way to give them that chance. So instead of safely disembarking at 7" and knowing my wyches will be in assault, I now have to either get closer to reduce the chance of failing an assault, or to chance my wyches failing the assault and getting shot at in the open.

I'd say only very durable assault units(either through number or sv) would risk that 2D6" assault... Also, as someone mentioned, we have a chance at failing an assault, shooters don't need to chance their shooting, so why would anyone bring assault unit when shooting is more reliable? Providing you have the choice to go gunner army, of course.

These are all based on the rumours from this thread obviously, I'm still in denial...

Joe Mama wrote:Eh, there's no negative effect now in 5th, I say we keep it that way. Not getting to assault seems like a negative enough thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xxvaderxx wrote:

shank911 wrote:There should be a negative effect for you failing to get that charge though.

Because it allows, armies 12 inches out to be like what the hell lets go for it. And that I know of there is no minus to rolling under except you don't charge.

There is, you are target to snap fire either if you make it or not.

Oh right, and that..

Means your unit will be shot at with BS 1 at rapid fire range, regardless of whether you make it or not (templates rumor has it do 1d3 hits). Wont mind much if you are marines, but lower armor guys against bolters might, specially if you are left in the open and following that free shooting phase your opponent double taps your unit again this time at full BS.

xxvaderxx wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:Eh, there's no negative effect now in 5th, I say we keep it that way. Not getting to assault seems like a negative enough thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xxvaderxx wrote:

shank911 wrote:There should be a negative effect for you failing to get that charge though.

Because it allows, armies 12 inches out to be like what the hell lets go for it. And that I know of there is no minus to rolling under except you don't charge.

There is, you are target to snap fire either if you make it or not.

Oh right, and that..

Means your unit will be shot at with BS 1 at rapid fire range, regardless of whether you make it or not (templates rumor has it do 1d3 hits). Wont mind much if you are marines, but lower armor guys against bolters might, specially if you are left in the open and following that free shooting phase your opponent double taps your unit again this time at full BS.

Not to mention that you are now nice and open to the counter charge.

It's getting very snippy in here. I'm closing this thread for one hour; you can all go and cool down, and then we'll continue discussion of how the newest version of the rules for our toy soldier game are the [best|worst] thing to happen this decade.

Yay! Timeout is over!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, there is a lot of uneasiness going on in my local store as well. A lot of people thing Necros are going to dominate everything so hard that everyone else is going to have to slot in AA and Nightfight at every available slot.

While this isnt bad, that means that list building is going to go down a weird path, with a Rock Paper Scissors sort of feel.

necrons>mechspam>AA lists>necrons.

so, IG main paired with BA or SW which to choose,

BA seem much more killy due to Rage buff (i.e. Death company ally)

or SW as they have some of the cheaper Terminators (which seem to be more resilient in 6th)

what do you guys think

Okay this thread has been re-opened for discussion, but please let's remember:

A) You are not looking at the full set of rules yet (that will be this Saturday when the book is available), so there will likely be all kinds of little nuances that may change your opinions on things.

B) Rules read in a vacuum often end up seeming quite different when you actually game with them on the table.

C) Tournament Organizers have in the past disallowed certain parts of the rules in order to appease player unease with parts of the game. There is no reason to assume that this wouldn't continue. So no matter how bad something may seem at first blush, if it really does turn out to be that way, then naturally tournament organizers will adapt and as always, in personal games house rules can be utilized to eliminate or change rules you hate.

D) Its a little early to have decided you love or hate something without having read the rules in entirety, so please try to keep the hyperbole to a minimum. And if someone does feel the need to take things to the extreme right now, it does no good to respond in kind calling them something negative because you disagree with their assessment.


So please stick to discussing the rumors, keeping in mind that (in most cases) you haven't read the full rules yet and you haven't played any games with said rules yet either.


Thanks!

I think the game you are looking for is called Necromunda, now Move along...

Think again.
You might want to epic, lots and lots of vehicles for you there and they are small so you can fit even more of them on a table.

Something just occurred to me: if Dreadnoughts have 3 hull points, then the Venerable rule just became one of the most overpriced pieces of wargear in the game.

Wow, good catch. Always thought the vens were overpriced as they were, now they will become pure ridicule unless properly FAQed.

Anyone here has a reasonable idea of what direction the new meta will take now when razorspam is probably gone?
Will we get clogged up in venom spams or IG-allies insanity?

If you have pre ordered keep your eyes open.

I logged to check my order had been dispatched about an hour ago and got "on truck for delivery" from the frieght company

Sent a gloating txt to mate and he recieved yesterday and didn't tell me

he is now disowned

But some places in Australia are getting theirs now

*getting wierd posting errors, hopefully works this time

or SW as they have some of the cheaper Terminators (which seem to be more resilient in 6th)

Might be fun times for Loganwing although I am afraid Draigowing is dead.

yeah according to rumors IG and SM (almost all) are best buddies, so maybe, jump pack Death Company in Vendetta's?

and i guess Sentinel tarpitting just went away, (glance glance your dead, sounds like a cheesy 80's song)

RegulusBlack wrote:yeah according to rumors IG and SM (almost all) are best buddies, so maybe, jump pack Death Company in Vendetta's?

Or an impy guard blod with a sanguinary priest nearby furious charge and FNP

100 pages or bust!

So wait everyone will run Guard gotcha, since there amazing

My only question to anyone who might have knowledge on it

If you snap fire, can you still use your attacks in assault.
Or is it one or the other kinda of thing??

H.B.M.C. wrote:100 pages or bust!

I bet it's going to bust.

everyone can run guard, so its kinda of a fallback, no brainer, default....

which kinda sucks cause i like my spec ops guard unit, now im just one of the masses.

I was thinking foot guard with some russes and venom spam.

youd have all bases covered.

Be a premium class shooting army, with all the str6 shots to kill rhino and anthing light, and then russes to take on better. Not to mention Hwy wep teams and such.

shank911 wrote:
I was thinking foot guard with some russes and venom spam

Some guy earlier mentioned 6 Grey Hunter squads with 3 Hydras

Please, don't spread false information.

Allies only lets you take 0-1 of a FOC choice.

Don't know if it is just me, but I can no longer find the Gamer's edition on the GW site

Apparently, it has sold out.

I was thinking foot guard with some russes and venom spam.

youd have all bases covered.

Be a premium class shooting army, with all the str6 shots to kill rhino and anthing light, and then russes to take on better. Not to mention Hwy wep teams and such.

yeah i kinda would like to know in entirety(sp) how best buddy allies work, i know some things transfer but what about others are they simply an extension of your army or still a seperate entity?

Well I pre-ordered mine through my flgs so I hope that I'll get it. I'm not sure though as I have never done it before.

i guess Sentinel tarpitting just went away, (glance glance your dead, sounds like a cheesy 80's song)

lol

Wonder how many hull points smallfry like sentinels and landspeeders will get.

100 pages or bust!

Hold your horses, we´re working on that