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Lets rewind the bitch fight a bit... what are you actually complaining about with the Taurox suspension?

The main thing I can see wrong with it is that it doesn't have enough travel and really the tracks themselves should have suspension rather than the entire assembly (but that's a problem with almost all IG vehicles).

What problem are you talking about?

 azreal13 wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

Dont use heroic scale models then.

Scale has nothing to do with it.

Or are you somehow saying that a 1/72 scale model kit is somehow more or less subject to the laws of physics than a 1/38?

No heroic scale is very very unnatural. Surely as a human you can look at a cadian and realize that having hands and a head like that is not natural and will not work. Let alone a space marine. Heroic and true scale a different. So if you enjoy space marines, im sure you can let some technical faults slide. You may want to try true scale kits.

Also how do you explain transports if realism is so important that the suspension needs to be looked at?

If we were discussing how it would be impossible to fit 10 men into the back of the vehicle as it is modelled, you'd have a point.

But we're not, just like we aren't discussing that Cadian's head and hands are too big, we are discussing whether the details of the Taurox have internal logic, plausibility or consistency, which they don't. A more appropriate comparison would be if the Cadian's lasguns all had a 90 degree bend in them, which they obviously don't, but that could also be hand waved away by "sci-fi" and "made up." But the fact that guns, like vehicles, have real world, contemporary analogues, means anyone with even a basic knowledge of these things will know that something is inherently "wrong" and if they notice it, this may break their SoD, and this isn't really desirable in this context.

So your telling me realism only applies to this one vehicle? And not the whole model range? Ok so in other words you are limiting the argument to something where the best I can say is:

It is unrealistic like every single GW model piece made.

I am fairly sure by now, after 25 years you would know that.

So you have been in a car with 5 seats, traveled though a rough explosion filled terrain and come out alive? Because thats a 40k transport for you. Clown cars. If you find the cartoon clown cars realistic then yea I dont think you can comment on technical problems.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Lets rewind the bitch fight a bit... what are you actually complaining about with the Taurox suspension?

The main thing I can see wrong with it is that it doesn't have enough travel and really the tracks themselves should have suspension rather than the entire assembly (but that's a problem with almost all IG vehicles).

What problem are you talking about?

Exactly that, place the struts at the top of the track unit, it at least looks like it could travel up and down, as it sits, they'd just collide with or destroy the track guards.

Also, not a complaint, merely an observation, alongside the slightly more important one that the arc of fire, RAW, for the turret is directly ahead, as it cannot rotate left or right.

text removed Reds8n

 azreal13 wrote:


Exactly that, place the struts at the top of the track unit, it at least looks like it could travel up and down, as it sits, they'd just collide with or destroy the track guards.

Also, not a complaint, merely an observation, alongside the slightly more important one that the arc of fire, RAW, for the turret is directly ahead, as it cannot rotate left or right.

Because I hate it when people make stupid criticism about something stupid. So yes I will go wannabe Facist and find out why you would bother!

 azreal13 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Lets rewind the bitch fight a bit... what are you actually complaining about with the Taurox suspension?

The main thing I can see wrong with it is that it doesn't have enough travel and really the tracks themselves should have suspension rather than the entire assembly (but that's a problem with almost all IG vehicles).

What problem are you talking about?

Exactly that, place the struts at the top of the track unit, it at least looks like it could travel up and down, as it sits, they'd just collide with or destroy the track guards.

Also, not a complaint, merely an observation, alongside the slightly more important one that the arc of fire, RAW, for the turret is directly ahead, as it cannot rotate left or right.

It was a throw away line, but it does seem to have upset superswastika for some reason!

Yeah, I'm not sure why a comment about how realistic the suspension of the Taurox is equired a condemnation, especially since the comment was relatively neutral/non-inflammatory

I don't know if this has been commented on yet, but I see that the Imperial Guard tab on GW's website has begun to undergo some changes. Rough Riders are gone from Fast Attack. There are also no more kasrkin under the Elites tab.

Can I go ahead and tell you both you are both pretty so we can drop this?!?!

Anyways as noted it is a waste of time. I shall stop, but it just greatly annoys me. The sarcasm fueled me to do more. Such is the internet I guess.

 azreal13 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Lets rewind the bitch fight a bit... what are you actually complaining about with the Taurox suspension?

The main thing I can see wrong with it is that it doesn't have enough travel and really the tracks themselves should have suspension rather than the entire assembly (but that's a problem with almost all IG vehicles).

What problem are you talking about?

Exactly that, place the struts at the top of the track unit, it at least looks like it could travel up and down, as it sits, they'd just collide with or destroy the track guards.

The strut position looks fine to me, it would need a control arm going from the chassis to the top of the track (which you can't see in the picture) that would make it basically like a double-a-arm system or if there is no top control arm, the bottom joint on the outboard side needs to be a solid joint. My only gripe is that the track guard is too close to the track, it means the whole suspension system only has a few inches of travel, and given the track itself has no suspension as is not soft like a tire would be, it would have a very rough ride.

Also, I can't see how the power gets from the engine to the track, though I guess there could be an axle inside that rectangular arm.

I think we're saying the same thing from differing perspective, my thinking was if the strut was affixed to the top of the track unit (by moving the track unit down) then there would be sufficient room for decent travel without taking the guard out.

All a bit odd, as this has sparked almost a page of redundant discussion, when the fact that you cannot aim the gun turret (meaning you've got to commit to your target in the move phase) has gone largely unremarked!

The track guard is also completely pointless because it won't actually guard against anything because the track itself has an integrated guard.

Got the White Dwarf today. Not only am I pleased at getting it weekly, the last few weeks have had great content. Today the new elite guardsmen are featured very well. I was sceptical when I saw the first pictures on Dakka Dakka, but man those are really nice figures, the transport is cool knowing you get to re-roll difficult terrain. I will, get a squad for sure, and the new vehicle. The contents of the boxes are great! I am stoked to add another unit to the guard I got for Christmas!

 Kelly502 wrote:
Got the White Dwarf today. Not only am I pleased at getting it weekly, the last few weeks have had great content. Today the new elite guardsmen are featured very well. I was sceptical when I saw the first pictures on Dakka Dakka, but man those are really nice figures, the transport is cool knowing you get to re-roll difficult terrain. I will, get a squad for sure, and the new vehicle. The contents of the boxes are great! I am stoked to add another unitto the guard I got for Christmas!

I got the WD as well, and pre-ordered 2 boxes of Scions; while I won't get the MT codex at freakin' 60$ (I'd rather wait for others to get it and give me the dirt on it- don't want a fluff book with 6 orders and that's it after all) the box having both the troop ANd the command option in it is a real nice buy..even if it's 8.40$CDN/model

 Kelly502 wrote:
Got the White Dwarf today. Not only am I pleased at getting it weekly, the last few weeks have had great content. Today the new elite guardsmen are featured very well. I was sceptical when I saw the first pictures on Dakka Dakka, but man those are really nice figures, the transport is cool knowing you get to re-roll difficult terrain. I will, get a squad for sure, and the new vehicle. The contents of the boxes are great! I am stoked to add another unitto the guard I got for Christmas!

Doing the same, the White Dwarf rules will get me by, and if the Scions codex is any good then maybe I will get that. But 10 Storm Troopers and 1 Truck will be a cool addition to my army.

A friend of mine saw the AM troops and said they remind him of "Planet Strike the online video game.

Were I to get some of the Storm Troopers (Just prefer to call them that, personally), It'd be tough to blend them with my army. I guess I could just paint them up however I want, but it would be jarring to have a bunch of Vostroyans in their red greatcoats, bronze armor and giant furry hats backed up by a squad of random Storm Troopers.

I'm almost tempted to try something. Using my Vostroyans with the new White Dwarf stormtrooper rules. The Vostroyans have the (very) ornate Lasguns I could conceivably call Hotshot Lasguns, and they also have armor that resembles Carapace Armor across the board as well. Would be an interesting way to field my army to be sure. The only thing I wouldn't be able to adequately represent would be the Hot Shot Volleygun. Beyond that, it seems like they'd work very well as counts-as 'Scions'.

I may just try this, in the near future. We'll see. Would anyone have an issue with seeing Vostroyans being used to represent Scions?

Just curious. Thanks everyone, take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Well the new models are nice except the Tank/Vehicle thing is dumb looking in my opinion. Just a funky truck thing but I won't be buying guard anyways haha

What exactly is the Altar of War book? Looks interesting but I haven't read anything about it on news and rumours. What kind of scenarios are they?

So the Scions are not the new IG codex, but a more like the GK of the IG world? Atleast that is my impression of things.

This is really nitpicky, but I hate that the scion's backpacks have the tent/cloak/coat whatever rolled up on the top. It makes the pack look....too big and awkward.

Though I think if I the MT can take a russ as heavy support, I am going to make an Ally detachment for my tau/marines using the Taurox, first GW vehicle model I have really liked in a while.

 azreal13 wrote:
... alongside the slightly more important one that the arc of fire, RAW, for the turret is directly ahead, as it cannot rotate left or right.

What makes you say that?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
... alongside the slightly more important one that the arc of fire, RAW, for the turret is directly ahead, as it cannot rotate left or right.

What makes you say that?

How close the turret is to a raised section on the back end. You can see it better from the side on the 360 angle on the items page.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1350001a&prodId=prod2380233a

EDIT: Actually taking a third look at it, I disagree, i'm sure it can move 360. Sounds like that might be his gripe.

Maybe not 360, but I don't see how anyone could say that the turret can't rotate.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Kelly502 wrote:
Got the White Dwarf today. Not only am I pleased at getting it weekly, the last few weeks have had great content. Today the new elite guardsmen are featured very well. I was sceptical when I saw the first pictures on Dakka Dakka, but man those are really nice figures, the transport is cool knowing you get to re-roll difficult terrain. I will, get a squad for sure, and the new vehicle. The contents of the boxes are great! I am stoked to add another unitto the guard I got for Christmas!

Doing the same, the White Dwarf rules will get me by, and if the Scions codex is any good then maybe I will get that. But 10 Storm Troopers and 1 Truck will be a cool addition to my army.

If you are in only for the rules that's the clever move. Let GW keep the new "fluffy codexes" (worth crap) while we get the core rules in the WD.

M.

At least this IG vehicle has an engine. The Chimera must run on foot power like a Flintstones car.

 Miguelsan wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Kelly502 wrote:
Got the White Dwarf today. Not only am I pleased at getting it weekly, the last few weeks have had great content. Today the new elite guardsmen are featured very well. I was sceptical when I saw the first pictures on Dakka Dakka, but man those are really nice figures, the transport is cool knowing you get to re-roll difficult terrain. I will, get a squad for sure, and the new vehicle. The contents of the boxes are great! I am stoked to add another unitto the guard I got for Christmas!

Doing the same, the White Dwarf rules will get me by, and if the Scions codex is any good then maybe I will get that. But 10 Storm Troopers and 1 Truck will be a cool addition to my army.

If you are in only for the rules that's the clever move. Let GW keep the new "fluffy codexes" (worth crap) while we get the core rules in the WD.

M.

Agreed. I might boycott them as I think thats kinda stupid. So regardless of whats in the supplement I wont bother with it.

Vote with my wallet I will.

Whoa, go away for a minute and come back to a heated debate!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pitch forks and torches!

Also to people complaining about the price of the scions: $35 USD isn't that bad, considering Dire Avengers, Sternguard Veterans, Vanguard Veterans, and Deathwing Terminators. I mean the SM Combat squad is only $10 cheaper and has far fewer bits, as well as not being a dual kit.

 Swastakowey wrote:
It is unrealistic like every single GW model piece made.

Yes, but it's not about strict realism, it's about having things that feel plausible. I have a the FW Mars Alpha LRBT (which fixes a lot of the issues with the plastic kit) sitting on the shelf here, and it looks like a plausible tank at first glance. Yeah, there's no suspension, and the armor layout probably isn't very good, but it passes the "first glance" test. It looks like the result of someone with a decent idea of how real tanks work wanted to make a fictional tank with some WWI design influences. The Taurox, on the other hand, looks like a cheap toy designed by someone whose entire knowledge of tanks consists of spending a few minutes in the toy section at walmart. The proportions look wrong at first glance, and then when you start to look at the details you just find stuff that doesn't make any sense. It's a random cut and paste of various "tank-like" shapes, and not even very good ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
At least this IG vehicle has an engine. The Chimera must run on foot power like a Flintstones car.

The Chimera's engines are in the side sections, inside the track loop.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 PuddlePirate wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 PuddlePirate wrote:
Question. If these guys are to be their own army and seeing that stormtroopers have disappeared from the IG elite section, do we (IG) need to ally them in order to get stormtroopers?

I'm guessing the IG codex will have the rules for Storm Troopers still, but we won't know until the codex comes out a few weeks (or we get more leaks!).

*fingers crossed*

If they aren't in the codex I suggest dropping the hobby, because it means the gouge train is only going to get worse as GWs desperate thrashing continues.

The gouge train began a while back. Someone at GW realized two things.

1. Models made by any company can be used to play the game even homemade ones.
2. Rules must come from GW.

Then someone went to work on how to sell more rule books. Such as selling a 72 page coffee table book for $50.00 that contains rules for a single squad of 10 models (or in one particular case, two versions of a single model). Or even worse, selling the same content online, without the construction or shipping costs, for the same amount!!!

I saw that train coming down the tracks when the hard cover editions began. I believe that before too long the "big" codexes will go away and all you'll see are these "unit specific" codexes causing you to spend five times more for rules to field the same size army.

There's no such thing as gouging.