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Posted By H.B.M.C. on 05/16/2007 7:00 PM
I think I did... but 'generalise' everything just didn't sound right. Genericize sounded better.

BYE

Dont worry mate, genericize is a real word.

I genericize all the time.  Not many people know about it, but its catching on in minneapolis.
What genericize is, is a generic jazzercize class.
Instead of listening to good, expensive and soulful jazz like Coltrane, Thelonius Monk, Duke Ellington, or Miles Davis ...we listen and excercise with ennui to the likes of Kenny G. if you werent white or dance like you were white before the genericize class, you will be getting your butt kicked like a peckerwood in the ghetto of cabrini green in no time after genericize.

Genericize. Dance like a white boy, get your butt kicked like a two year old. Genericize.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genericized

Wow.

Posted By malfred on 05/16/2007 7:43 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genericized

Wow.

It even shows me how to avoid genericide.

Thank god.

It's just the flow of things in 4th. I was playing second edition way back when, the codex are damn near the same. I can handle making things on a more even level, I can handle making units pretty near identical, but I don't like the fact that my army leader will be the same as the next guys. seems like it's a dumbing down of the codexes for the sake of easy to play universal rules. I guess it's a move to smite the powergamer and make all armies play on the same level. oh well.

Posted By stonefox on 05/16/2007 4:03 PM

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 05/16/2007 2:17 PM
It just sounds so... dull.

Generic this, and standard that. So utterly boring. Chaos is all about being Chaotic. These rumours are anything but.

BYE

They should have a rule where for every squad marked with Khorne, you get to roll a d6.  On a 4+, one member joins a special Khorne warband.  You will spawn d3+3 members of this Khorne warband if your general has a mark.  This khorne warband will not count for victory points  and it'll have all sorts of special rules.  They will also wear nothing but codpieces which give them a 3+ armor save.  I think this new idea will work, is fluffy, nobody will complain about cheese, and most importantly is chaotic.

Sooooo... it would be an old style Death Company.

Reading up so far, it appears for a little more than the current Rubric Marine, we possibly get: AP3 Bolters, SAP still, 4+ Invuln Save, Sorcerors needing to  pass Psy tests, maybe using 2 powers each per turn, Sorcerors w/Force Weapons and 1 wound now........

Interesting....

RE: Thousand Sons, don't forget the rumor that dreadclaw drop pods will be in the codex as well. Now if that's true, an 3+/4++ army with AP3 firearms and Slow & Purposeful can make pretty good use of dropping right into the enemy's lap, even if it does cost an extra 50 points.

Posted By 5deadly on 05/16/2007 7:51 PM
 I guess it's a move to smite the powergamer and make all armies play on the same level. oh well.

Isn't it the opposite?

The powergamer will find the optimum HQ option and always take it.

This means that all powergamer HQ's will be identical - the way GW likes it.

The way things are going here - taking away bionics (as an example) which powergamers ignore anyway screws over the fluffy/casual players who like to take different options to add personality to their HQ even if it isn't as effective in game.

My Space Marine Master has a Plasma Pistol, not because it's a good game option, but because he took it from my friend's Blood Angels Master in a duel of honour 8 years ago. He has bionics from the time his Company was wiped to a man, but he managed to flee with one wound left off the table.
Somehow fielding him with them makes me a dirty powergamer?

Likewise, powergamers are uneffected. The only had one choice before (the best possible option) and they only have one choice now (a different best most powerful option). They're not effected by the change in the least.

Ok if you feel that having a 6+ post wound Inv save is power gaming then so be it. I don't think that it is... I myself am an avid ?Dirty? (your word) power gamer. I?ve got a S8 lord who can cut a dread in half before it can even think of swinging?I think it?s lame that I can?t take a lightning claw and thunder hammer on my space marine captain. I think its lame that every guy with a Lightning claw vet sgt has to shelf the model. There are many lame moves made by GeeDub.
As a power gamer I?m offended that you think that having a bionic eye is power gaming. Go a set and combine combat drugs, furious charge, demonic strength and a dark blade maxing out the strength of your Chaos Lord that?s some power gaming!
And those days are gone. I don?t mind a little ?run of the mill? but your heroes should be YOUR heroes. Not a clone f the next guys.

5d, I don't think you know what powergaming means. It's simply taking the best choice out of those possible. In chess, you're effectively a powergamer in every game. But, since everyone plays the same army, people will only start calling chess players powergamers is if you gave them the option to play an all-pawn army instead. Maybe you mean that less choices gives less combinations for powergaming? New armies will still be minmaxed, just with different options.

Anyway, why would you complain about generic heroes but not generic units? They're all just army choices. Yeah, someone will chime in about "the general should be unique blah blah" (and I don't really care because half the time I don't even remember the current temporary name I give my general) but from a gaming perspective, they're just army list choices. Why are choices for HQs more important than regular units? Personally, if I was given a choice I'd pick heavy support choices over HQs any day.



No. It's totally new. Like combat squads. GW is innovative!

Posted By Mr. X on 05/16/2007 9:16 PM
RE: Thousand Sons, don't forget the rumor that dreadclaw drop pods will be in the codex as well. Now if that's true, an 3+/4++ army with AP3 firearms and Slow & Purposeful can make pretty good use of dropping right into the enemy's lap, even if it does cost an extra 50 points.

Once upon a time I heard dreadclaws had assault ramps ... and I remembered this when I was lamenting how screwed 'zerkers are without their extra +D6" rage move.  But with assaulty drop pods, that's a BOOM! of the pod landing, then a SMASH! of the WS5 nutters slamming into combat.  Frankly I hope the assault ramp thing is just a figment of my imagination, because that's pretty unbeatable in game.  Unless, say, you could split every squad into 5-man units, minimizing the number of guns trapped in combat and ensuring that smaller squads would be wipped out, leaving the 'zerkers in the open ...

o_O

I realized another thing last night, and I know it's the real smoldering question on everyone's mind:

Where is Khârn??

Inquiring minds must know, and also would like to know if he'll get a new model, dammit.

- Boss Salvage

I am with you on that Boss. Kharn better be in there and new model would be great.

I'm a seasoned player. Not a 19 year old kid with his second army. I was buyin this stuff from comic shops when G.W. didn't even have a U.S. branch. My first minis where the freshly released harlequin box set and their rules in full were printed in a white dwarf.

I’ve play through overwatch and speed bands with turning templates, I played when that combiweapon not only could fire every turn but, you could fire both weapons at the same time. I’ve packed as many High strength weapons on as little troops as possible and sat there and shot you to death every time you poked your head out of cover…and get this, in you Own turn (god I miss overwatch)
You ever seen a land speeder go so fast it’s impossible to shoot, as it does loops after loop hitting you with drive bys…

WOW rant city.
I’ve been a fan of G.W. since I was 12…for 20 years…I’ve seen every product they released and I’ll buy the codex, even if I hate the rules and play. Why? Because you will too and if I don’t and try to play with the old dex I’m stuck in a time warp. Every so often G.W. makes as many models as possible obsolete. They tighten the rules, change up the army books and make you want/need to buy new models and reformat your army. I’m cool with it.

It’s like a cyclical culling of their market. Not all your army will change but enough to make it a purchasing event for the fan base as a whole….what better than give all the marine (good and bad) players a OPEN dex with the ability to take 6 dev squads, or 6 dreadnaughts…man there is a kid out there with a 6 dread army sittin on well over 100 dollars worth of useless dreads alone. All these Traits, only to take it all away poof gone. Not even a lightning clawed vet sgt left…watch. That’s really F’ed up and It’s happening to all of us again. But I’m in the same boat and learned to build my armies so they aren’t so hard to replace when the next culling comes. My current army needs to have possibly 3 models replaced (you guessed it Vets with Lightning claws!!!)

No hard feeling to any of my fellow G.W. fans. Were all kinda getting the shaft. The cool part is…..We are all getting the shaft and I’m not alone.
this isn't directed at any of you just a psycho rant....sorry

Take away sacred numbers filthy no account$#@!(&$)@_$!_>>>>>...........

Geesh 5, you aren't even that old to the hobby Back in my day......

I am not going to complain about much in the way of new books. No one stops you from putting bionics on a model. Rules don't have to cover everything. In fact it's kind of stupid for it to do so.

What I want, is a somewhat balanced, playable game. If they can do that in the next few books, maybe our hobby will survive. If not, I see it going down the tubes.You can lament the loss, and the changes, but the game and army books as it stands are killing the game.

So I welcome the change.

And looks like the cult troops are going to be damn nasty!

Looks like the rumour that orks lose the choppa rule could be true. Interesting.....

I bet they gain rending.
(My hope would be for choppa orks to be strength 4 actually, with a 5+ or 4+ save thank you very much)

Feel No Pain will be nice for my deathgaurd.

I'm just gonna miss my Lightning clawed Sgts. Yeah I totally feel you Toreador balance is nice and the new codex look is so throw back it's pretty. I'm open minded. the TS do sound like killing machines. I hope they keep my Noise marines all sonic and shooty as hell.
"up hill both ways in the snow ridin' tyranosaurs"

Ultimately an army with AP3 bolters has got plenty going for it.

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 05/17/2007 11:58 AM
Ultimately an army with AP3 bolters has got plenty going for it.

Abadabadoobaddon wins. No more needs to be said about the TS.

ender502

AP3 bolters AND 4+ Inv saves. Talking about the gunline. Line em up across the board and walk.

There is a lot of bite in what I see so far.

Makes sense. GW has all those unwanted boxes of 1k Sons sitting in a warehouse somewhere. Give them some broken rules and watch them fly off the shelves! Ingenious.

Posted By Cyric036 on 05/17/2007 7:41 AM
I am with you on that Boss. Kharn better be in there and new model would be great.

Interesting.  I consider Kharn one of Goodwin's best Chaos character models.  I can't imagine any of the sculptors could improve on him.  In fact, each of the Chaos characters needs a resculpt (if they do...many don't) MORE than Kharn.

Jes' Abaddon is great, but he needs a scale-up.  Fabius is fine, Kharn and Ahriman are great, and Cypher needed a resculpt (and got one, if rumors are true).

Fricking computers...

I am pretty sure that Thousand Sons won't be getting this imaginary ap 3, the rumour is that they will be getting something to make them more balanced for shooting and hand to hand. If they give them this ap3 crap, I will be refusing to play 40k until they remove them from the game, and I don't even own any MEQ's right now.

Now if they give them the equivalent of storm bolters, keep SAP with maybe the AC an ap3 gun and his force weapon. That sounds more like a playable and effective troop choice. The only reason I can see to make Thousand Sons need psychic tests is if force weapons start becoming available for them.

I kind of hope that the demon prince option is kept but make it more like a Tyranid Hive Tyrant hq choice instead of a Chaos Lord that gets upgraded, I think that would probably work the best.

Posted By citadel97501 on 05/17/2007 4:15 PM
I am pretty sure that Thousand Sons won't be getting this imaginary ap 3, the rumour is that they will be getting something to make them more balanced for shooting and hand to hand. If they give them this ap3 crap, I will be refusing to play 40k until they remove them from the game, and I don't even own any MEQ's right now.

*Laugh*  I hope that's satire.

To be fair I doubt GW is really stupid enough to give an entire army AP3. Then again, when you look at rules like Seer Council, Death Company, Harlequins, assault cannons and the old starcannon it reminds you GW developers do have the occasional brainfart.

Posted By sircarstic on 05/17/2007 4:44 PM
GW developers do have FREQUENT brainfartS.

I fixed your post.

(Great name BTW)

It could be worse, they could have given the TS rending on their bolters.

For 25+ points I am pleased with a 4+ Invuln and AP3 bolters+SAP on 2d6 w/a Sorceror and 1d6 w/o one. You keep forgetting 1k Sons will not have two wounds anymore. Also, seeing as how they will now cast 2 Powers/turn & need a frigging Psychic Test (meaning that damn Hood will still be a pain to deal with even more), I can bet Thrall Wizards may be gone, and/or Familiars. Keep in mind one squad will easily be around 300points, so don't complain if 20 of your pitiful 5 point Spinegaunts get vaporized in one volley.

Only MEQ armies will be worried about AP3 since Eldar/Guard/Orks/Nids don't get saves from normal bolters anyway.

Finally, our 1k Sons Termies will be dropped to 1 wound now, regardless if we get a 4+ Invuln save. (same as a Crisis Suit with Shield Generator).

I hope to see better and more effective Psychic Powers and toss out the mundane Minor Powers since 80+% of all existing armies pretty much ignore them anyway.

NT: the website timed out on me and double posted.

AP3 also negates mid-armor Tyranid creatures, so that's gonna hurt some genestealers and warriors... and elite carnifexes, but that's not that bad of a deal, i guess.

I just hope there are some more options for the different chaos units. Wait and see.

Greets
Schepp himself