Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

IIRC (and forgive me if they've already been listed, but this thread is getting Warseer-long), the random options are all pretty decent and geared toward h2h. So at least you know it's going to be an assaulty unit, although I imagine it'll rely on transports to get into h2h. And figure they'll almost certainly be way overpriced unless the new plastic kit casts its Spell of Points Reduction.

Having said all that, I have no idea why they went back to random options, especially including a null result.

The CSM codex saga is like one of those movie trilogies in which the second movie is so awful that the third movie just acts like the second movie never happened. What GW doesn't get is that the first movie was the awful one.

Wyches have a random ability roll. Its worked pretty well for them so far.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Posted By Ozymandias on 05/30/2007 8:47 AM
Wyches have a random ability roll. Its worked pretty well for them so far.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

True but the rumours thus far have suggested that on the roll of a 1, the Possessed get no power at all!

Also Possessed used to be a random roll and it was decided then that it was rubbish, so they gave them the customising abiltiy.

Personnally I wouldn't mind a random roll if it was randomly generated each turn. Truly fluffy as a Chaos unit!

"Fixed unit sizes isn't chaotic enough!"

"Random Possessed abilities is too chaotic!"

Hahahaha

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Anyone know of an RTS/RTT videogame that allows your units to have random abilities? I can't think of any well-balanced (that also happen to be well-played and popular for some reason) game that has them.

Quite an off comparison there, stonefox. Why would anybody implement a random whatever in a computer game? There are lots of games that are played world-wide and aren't balanced.

P.S. Diablo I had shrines with random effects. People had to decide whether or not it was worth the risk taking them.

I wonder what possessed stats will be; their points cost; if they will, or not, take up a slot (this one might've been answered already) and if they´re limited to the random power.

I admit that I preferred the previous possessed, but I'll have to see how bad these are in comparison in order to start complaining about it

Posted By Boss_Salvage on 05/30/2007 5:21 AM

Good (dark) lord I should stop reading these Chaos rumors O_O
And more fun? The last models I have to paint to make 2000 points is my chainfist-armed terminator lord, and 6 furies - neither of them exist come Sept

well, you can still use the furies, as they are still "daemons" and still exist
and, although it isn't much help, the chainfist can still be your powerfist equipped termi lord

Posted By stonefox on 05/30/2007 10:06 AM
Anyone know of an RTS/RTT videogame that allows your units to have random abilities? I can't think of any well-balanced (that also happen to be well-played and popular for some reason) game that has them.

World of Warcraft.

There's a wide number of craftable items that produce a range enchantment from a range of effects.

Xenosaga and most Final Fantasy games have spells or characters who main power is gambling (with a slot machine or not) in order to produce a great effect, or no effect at all.

I think that the idea is pretty silly - as is their mutations changing from game to game in a campaign, and it will discourage modeling them with particular mutations if they won't be WYSIWYG anyway.

Wait and see how it's actually implemented though.

Posted By deitpike on 05/30/2007 11:37 AM

Posted By Boss_Salvage on 05/30/2007 5:21 AM

Good (dark) lord I should stop reading these Chaos rumors O_O
And more fun? The last models I have to paint to make 2000 points is my chainfist-armed terminator lord, and 6 furies - neither of them exist come Sept

well, you can still use the furies, as they are still "daemons" and still exist
and, although it isn't much help, the chainfist can still be your powerfist equipped termi lord

You know, I failed to see that "generic demon" means you can use anything you want for them.  Not ... real happy about those possibilities, but there are possibilities.  On the fist, would a termi lord even be able to have a fist?  I assumed there'd be 2-3 options: power weapon / lightning claw / demon weapon + combi-bolter / kai gun.  Ala the metal termi lord that came out not too long ago. 

- Boss Salvage 

sorry, I was just reading the last page, I haven't had time to go through the whole thread.
I'm just looking at the furies not being a waste, as they are daemons, and I'm sure they'll have more when that "codex daemonica" or whatever it's called comes out.

fist looks to be a legal option. they don't seem to have alot of options until you give them their Mark.

Asmodai - I was asking for real-time strategy/tactical games, since those provide the closest mechanics to 40k. The gambling mechanics don't really need to "work" with the FF series since you're not playing against a human opponent nor are you playing a very balanced guy anyway since all your guys are uber heroes by the end of the game. I don't get what you mean with WOW's crafting mechanics since all of my enchants either have set stats or simple "chance on hit" stats that provide only one possible bonus anyway. In any case, I don't think anyone complains about enchants in WOW as much as UD rogues complained about hunters until we were nerfed to hell.
I can't think of any RTS games with units which have gambled effects/stats which leads me to believe that for the sake of balance (especially point-wise), gambling simply does not belong in wargames. I can just see it now: the Zerg queen in Starcraft 2 has random psychic powers - Korean players stop playing SC as a national pastime.

Posted By Ozymandias on 05/30/2007 8:47 AM
Wyches have a random ability roll. Its worked pretty well for them so far.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Yes and they are highly lethal without the random roll. If the possessed are the same then they will be a good deal. If not they won't be.

Posted By stonefox on 05/30/2007 12:51 PM
Asmodai - I was asking for real-time strategy/tactical games, since those provide the closest mechanics to 40k. The gambling mechanics don't really need to "work" with the FF series since you're not playing against a human opponent nor are you playing a very balanced guy anyway since all your guys are uber heroes by the end of the game. I don't get what you mean with WOW's crafting mechanics since all of my enchants either have set stats or simple "chance on hit" stats that provide only one possible bonus anyway. In any case, I don't think anyone complains about enchants in WOW as much as UD rogues complained about hunters until we were nerfed to hell.
I can't think of any RTS games with units which have gambled effects/stats which leads me to believe that for the sake of balance (especially point-wise), gambling simply does not belong in wargames. I can just see it now: the Zerg queen in Starcraft 2 has random psychic powers - Korean players stop playing SC as a national pastime.

I don't think RTS are that close anyway. 40K is closer to hex games like Panzer General. I'm honestly not sure if any of the old Avalon Hill computer translations had random abilities or not.

For WoW I was thinking of things like the Wildvine Lens.

All the Wyche roll options are good options, all fairly equal in footing.

With the Possessed, we probably get a roll of 6 granting them the ability to ignore armour saves, 4 sub-par abilities, and one that does nothing whatsoever.

Also, possessed need transport. If a wyche squad rolls up the fast movement option, then at least a raider is still useful. If I buy a Rhino for my possessed and they suddenly grow wings, I'm going to be pretty miffed, becasue there's 50 points wasted right there.

35. I expect Chaos Rhinos will drop in price like DA and BA.

Random abilities/or not can make for a horrible game. It's hard to plan for anything. I don't like the mechanic at all. But like everyone else has said, if they are a viable unit without the abilities, that will just be icing on the cake.

We can probably safely assume that the Possessed won't just be regular marines with a random ability. GW will want to sell some of the new possessed models.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Posted By Toreador on 05/30/2007 1:50 PM
Random abilities/or not can make for a horrible game. It's hard to plan for anything. I don't like the mechanic at all. But like everyone else has said, if they are a viable unit without the abilities, that will just be icing on the cake.

I can recall a few Pokemans that had a random effect attak, and also remember how often they got used ...

But uh ... pages back someone posted a hypothetical Poss ability table, and it looked quite nice.  Power weapons or rending or speed (sweet!) or something or something ... or nothing.  It's really that last throw-away that's the kicker, but this is chaos people!  I for one welcome the random possessed back, one of the last vestiges of madness in the new 'dex, it would seem.  It does suck that you basically have to dedicate them a transport because you can't count on rolling up speed, but hell, that just means my land raider can go do other evil things from the back field >

- Boss Salvage

Only true chaos plays Pokeman.... the horrors!!

They will be an interesting unit. Stats and cost will make a big difference.

When I saw pics of marines that my cousin (played IG) had back in 1997, I knew I wanted to give them all pokemon shoulderpads. I decided to do that with the Tau instead because they had one craftworld that had symbol resembling a pokeball.

I summon you Kroot!

Bit of a bump...

Anything more on:

- Statline/abilities of generic lesser daemons
- The cost of a CSM (especially as a Space Wolf with a bolter/ccw, frags, and True Grit is 19 points, and the basic CSM described above is superior)
- CSM morale rules (e.g., is there a MoCU reroll?)
- Stats of the Reaper

After processing these rumors some more:

Huge nerfs to Chaos assault power -- Lords aren't going to be the monsters they once were, Berserkers are weaker now, and daemons could be (but, like, if they all got rending, which was conjectured, they'd be just as strong...), with a buff to the basic CSM (which, of course, is pending on the point cost for the basic CSM).

In exchange, the potential for lots of AP3 firepower. Hell, I'd still love to see the Reaper get bumped up to AP3. I mean, seriously, an AP3 flamer as standard gear on a troops squad? Marine players will *female dog* incessantly.

Is Chaos getting made into a mid-range shooty army with assault options? These rumors make me look at the new strong Chaos list as Noise Marines and Thousand Sons as mobile AP3 firebases with daemons strictly as countercharge. Maybe not a huge drop in power level if played well, but a huge, huge change in overall direction of the army.

I've commented for quite a while that the problem with marines in 40k is that there's a serious lack of AP3 weaponry compared to both AP2 and AP4, and now we may see a Chaos list with a lot of AP3 weapons available.

Sorry to only reply to your conjecture with more conjecture, but I don't see any AP3 weapons coming other than the already much mooted Thousand Sons buff.

Reapers will be as is, and no evidence to suggest at all otherwise so far, that I've seen. Let me know if there's any counter evidence, of course.

GW have tended to very much ration out the "low AP-firing" units within each list and CSM should not be any different. Your AP3 love is likely to go largely unrequieted, methinks.

Well, Thousand Sons are rumored to be losing their 2nd wound and are going up to 25 pts each.  So I guess they won't have plenty going for them anymore.

Uh... I didn't see this anywhere here, probably lots of people have seen it elsewhere, but it's always good to get more fuel for the fire.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1641406&postcount=777

Pics of the new Termies, Huron, a Khorne Champion, the Possessed, Chaos Lord Terminator, and the recut CSM sprue.

That's because it is over here:

www.dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/6/postid/169257/view/topic/Default.aspx

However, it will allow me to say again that the Metals are crud and the plastics, as far as I can tell, look pretty good.

Of course, the Codex itself seems pretty suspect, so, I guess it is a wash?

Posted By Lowinor on 06/12/2007 2:40 PM
Anything more on:

- Statline/abilities of generic lesser daemons

Last rumor I saw is that they're 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 10 and 13 pts.  I don't think it's confirmed that they don't have any special attacks or weapons, but it's pretty likely that's the case. 

Daemonbombs sure got a lot less appealing, huh? 

Posted By gorgon on 06/13/2007 5:53 AM

Daemonbombs sure got a lot less appealing, huh? 

Chaos sure got a lot less appealing.

Generic Daemons, random Possessed, 'Aspect Warrior' cult troops.

Idiotic.

BYE

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 06/13/2007 5:59 AM

Posted By gorgon on 06/13/2007 5:53 AM

Daemonbombs sure got a lot less appealing, huh? 

Chaos sure got a lot less appealing.

Generic Daemons, random Possessed, 'Aspect Warrior' cult troops.

Idiotic.

BYE

What he said!

I can only hope that the Codex flops so badly that GW learns the old "don't fix what ain't broken" lesson.

Tweaks were necessary, not this!

Of course if it flops I'm sure the end result will be the firings of more store managers or some such nonsense...

Posted By gorgon on 06/13/2007 5:53 AM

Posted By Lowinor on 06/12/2007 2:40 PM
Anything more on:

- Statline/abilities of generic lesser daemons

Last rumor I saw is that they're 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 10 and 13 pts.  I don't think it's confirmed that they don't have any special attacks or weapons, but it's pretty likely that's the case. 

Daemonbombs sure got a lot less appealing, huh? 

At 13 points a common tac marine is significantly better.  Why would anyone buy demons at this price?