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Captain, two terminators and a dread gives the marine player at least two powerfists, and the terminators likely have them too. And even if they don't, that's still a lot of expensive close combat punch against a bunch of orks. Orks vs dread might be interesting.

It's cool that the dethcopta is getting a plastic model.

Maybe the dread is just cut down the middle, front and back and it snaps/ glues together.

Alright a dreadnaught that doesn't cost $40; that aside Tacobake's idea of how it might be assembled does seem feesible, though I think atleats three parts, the feet seperate, maybe on the base would have better results. I'm wondering how they justify 2 terminators; you think 5th ed we get to see a revision of Terminator recon teams? Ork stuff will be cool, I had been looking to get another army (not that I or many of us need one) looks like it may be orks.

Maybe it's just 1 sprue of Space Hulk Terminators

I think including 3 DeffKoptas alone is a marketing stroke of genius.

Ork bikes are 3 for $30 and I assumed the plastic DeffKoptas would end up being the same, but now for $60 I get an Ork layout thats better than the Battleforce, and I get marine models to boot.

I can quite easily see people buying 5 Starters now to get the full compliment of Deffkoptas and the 100 out of 180 boyz everyone seems to want to field these days.

If the Dreadnaught is Lascannon/missle launcher, I could see marine players buying three boxes.

On the Macragge miniatures:

Personally I like them, and they blend right in. There is a small quality difference though, the genestealers tails are paert of their legs.

Not that you would notice in Yakfaces spot the difference.

On the two part Dread:

I dont like the sound of this, it must be a vacuum formed model. It would make sense to have a three part vacuum formed model, a front half a back half and a gun arm. I am having difficulty trying to work out how you would form a two part model.

I suspect that the dread is likely to be a fire support variant, that way the missile arm is part of the body - the second piece is the arm with the assault cannon/lascannon.

If the dreadnought sucks, I can always turn it into wreckage. I've been planning to make wrecked versions of various vehicles for when they get blowed-up, so I don't mind.

On that 2 terminators query, i've just read hatwhen the poster wrote "a couple of terminators" he was using it as a turn of phrase, and there will in fact be a 5 man squad. i'll edit the first post to make that clear.

A plastic warboss model would be interesting though if it were done in a 2 piece sprue or someting else over simplified I'd probably pass it up. Something more in line with the beakie and chaos beakie commander models would be awsome. Loads of weapon options and gubbins, that sort of thing. Deff koptas and grots would also be nice.

This sounds like it might be a little expensive with 3 deffkoptas. Thats 75$ right there.

waaaghboss wrote:A plastic warboss model would be interesting though if it were done in a 2 piece sprue or someting else over simplified I'd probably pass it up. Something more in line with the beakie and chaos beakie commander models would be awsome.

That'll come eventually, but it won't be in a starter set with clip-together models.

smart_alex wrote:This sounds like it might be a little expensive with 3 deffkoptas. Thats 75$ right there.

that's assuming Deffkoptas are Sentinel class models, as a light vehicle. I'd always assumed they'd be jetbike class, at about $15 each, or at most Crisis Suit class, at $20.

Have you priced out Battle for Skull pass? There's 4 regiments, two characters and a Monster just for the gobbos. Add in a warmachine and effectivly two regiments of dwarfs, and your retail value is over $230.

I figure the deffcoptas will be pretty simple, with a hull, a wing, two rotors, and maybe a gun or arm. With the new technology they can put a lot of stuff on a sprue.

The warboss as other pieces in there will be surely not more than 2-part. And there won't be any metal-stuff in there. Not after BfSP and Macragge.

And i made up the 2 Terminator part because I thought it would be strange to have less than 3 in it.

I was serious about the rock-smashing part, though.

Greets
Schepp himself

With regards to the BfM set, i picked this up just yesterday. Mainly for the mini rulebook dice and one of my group will take the Nids off me, another the marines. The models don't look all that bad although they're still on sprues i must mention the terrain piece though. That is COOL! I'm really looking forward to painting up the "crash site" and using it effectively as an objective marker (and not spread out as per the book in the set).

As an aside i think it'd be a good idea to have more than one starter set. 40K has some great set battles that could be used as inspiration. I don't think 2 sets or even three would be over the top. It may dilute the sales stream a little but it might shift more box sets too. As an Eldar player i'd have bought a box set that gave simple guardian models and a weapon platform. With the range of armies availble a couple of solid pairings could work out. Just my thoughts tho...

Well, I don't think that producing multiple "2-piece" starter kits would be financially viable for GW. They make one kit, and then sell the crap out of it. As you can see, some new games buy it, but others buy it sometimes just for the mini rulebook, etc.

What they could do, that might help there army box sales is this : Make a few "Special Edition" box sets around the 5e release (or to coincide with the new box set release). You take the existing box, put a sticker over the UPC to give it a new number, and a little triangle sticker on the front corner that shows the extra items. Simple, easy, and cost effective. You take a current box set (lets say Eldar as they are an army not in the new box set), and then you add: Mini Rulebook, Dice, Templates, and Measuring Sticks.

There would be no need to add terrain pieces for size and cost containment. They could bump the price by 10-15 bucks. It seems like a no-brainer to me, but then again, I'm not running the company.

This is actually really exciting, a stupid easy way to get the new rules, bolster my orkses, and have something to potentially start a third army with (or just hack them to pieces for bits). I'm excited ^_^

Is the current rumour still a late summer/early fall release?

Schepp himself wrote:Point taken... It was a rather self-orientated statement there. But it still stands.

Greets
Schepp himself

please don't take this harshly but it is oriented rather than orientated.


back on topic, I certainly like the "simpleness" of the starter boxes. I can remember helping new players with the 3rd edition box and having their parent ask me why it was so difficult to get started. My responses, although well thought out, were usually along the line of detail and ability to make unique models. Their replies back were usually, it would be nice if you could just pop them together.

I know specifically of 6 players that bought the 3rd edition box set and after putting together 3 or 4 models, just gave up on it. They did manage to pick it all back up when BFM was released and each of them stated, that had 3rd edition been that easy to assemble they would have stayed in it.. Oh well, some like the ability to make unique stuff and some like the ease that 2 or 3 part models allow for. I like both to be brutally honest, as each has it's place in hobby. Not all of us are master builders and can do gundam like models with blindfolds on.

two_heads_talking wrote:I know specifically of 6 players that bought the 3rd edition box set and after putting together 3 or 4 models, just gave up on it.

I can hardly believe this. But it pretty much convinced me that simpler models in the starter box are the way to go.

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. No offense taken, feel free to correct me.

The 3rd Edition box set had the landspeeder, one the most consistantly warped models GW ever produced.

I can see that giving someone who had never built models before nightmares

I loved the contents of the 3rd edition boxed set, but I also liked the BfM set as well. If they make a 40k version of BfSP, then I will be most pleased. I painted up a BfSP for the store I game at and I was amazed at how much you got in that set.

Capt K

tht:

back on topic, I certainly like the "simpleness" of the starter boxes.

"Simplicity".

-

I concur with the BfSP fans. All starters should be like that.

Personally I liked the 2nd Ed box. 20 Marines, 20 Orks, 40 Gretchin. That was great.

A 5th Ed Starter Kit should have 1 Commander, 5 Terminators, 2 Tac Squads, 1 Dread & 1 Warboss, 30 Orks, 40 Gretchin, 2 Killer Kanz.

BYE

It sure would be nice if GW gave us 2 Battleforces for half the price of one by itself, and threw in a rulebook to boot.

It's a 'starter' set. It should be significantly discounted.

Not only would it seem like a bargain to snare new players, but it would go a long way to please veterans who are buying their 5th version of the game

Besides, we all know this hobby has escalated in price to almost riduclous levels. It wouldn't hurt to throw us a bone.

I don't have any hard figures to prove it, but I swear that fantasy has never been as poplular as it, in the local scene at least, since they relased the Battle For Skull Pass set.

People just can't seem to resist getting sooo many miniatures on the cheap, even though the model level of sophistication is less than the rest of the line.

Heck, I know a D&D player, who refuses to play Warhammer, who bought BFSP just for the miniatures.

BFM fails as a starter because it's not a playable force for either faction, and there isn't enough miniatures in it that you would consider buying it 'just for the miniatures.'

The only real success of BFM was that bitz sellers were able to tear it apart and offer $17.50 Tac squads and cheap nids.

two_heads_talking wrote:
I know specifically of 6 players that bought the 3rd edition box set and after putting together 3 or 4 models, just gave up on it. They did manage to pick it all back up when BFM was released and each of them stated, that had 3rd edition been that easy to assemble they would have stayed in it.. Oh well, some like the ability to make unique stuff and some like the ease that 2 or 3 part models allow for. I like both to be brutally honest, as each has it's place in hobby. Not all of us are master builders and can do gundam like models with blindfolds on.

I agree wholeheartedly, three part marines are a good idea and mine from Macragge have their place in my army alongside normal multipart marines.

But a two part dreadnought doesnt sound good. Even five parts, body, legs, power back and two arms is hardly a challenge. The main problem GW has is that they cant provide instant play for new gamers, all miniatures need to be removed from the sprue with a hobby knife - then glued. Any number of components is acceptable, so long as they are not small and fiddly. Anything large and two part is in danger of looking as sucky as the Skull Pass cannon.

Some manufacturers are looking at bags of precut miniatures, dropping plastic quality to do so. This isnt where Gw wants to head, and I agree with them on this.

If the company wants to recruit ever younger audeience thenit needs to produce an intro level game for 40K and Warhammer that uses bagged models and a cut down system rather than warhammer and 40K itself. Then produce 40K and Warhammer intro boxes seperately with somewhat simplified but quality components as they do now.

when you say "cut down system", are you speeking of a simplified rule set for the young players?

I'm not sure what I think about this,......

Maybe in addition to,... some skirmish level encounter rules that kids could use??? I like the mini rulebook idea, and heck,... that's what the redshirts are for,... teaching the little kids how to play. Bringing in new players under a different set of rules is likely not a great idea.

If that is not what you were saying,.. please disregard.

Simplifying the models reduces the production costs allowing them to be included bulk, which is important to snaggin new customers. Once they are hooked into the game, and start caring about how their models look, they upgrade to the fancier mulipart models.

A Skirmish 40K is not the Godsend answer people keep proclaiming it to be. A 14 year old walks into a store and sees adult playing with 100+ model armies he doesn't want a box with 40 models and dumbed down rules. He'll want the giant box with 120+ figures and the rules the big boys are playing with, so he can join them.

Battle For Maccrage was skirmish 40K. You got two forces , and rules. you bang heads with, but wasn't a real 40K game.

Battle For Skull Pass is 2 armies, and rules, that allow you to play a real Warhammer Game, with miniature more detailed than the plastics we used 10 years ago.

The new 40K Battle for something or other looks to be like BFSP, and I think that is exactly the direction it needed to go.

BTW, if it's Marines vs Orks, it should be Rynn's World all over again.

Orlanth wrote: all miniatures need to be removed from the sprue with a hobby knife - then glued.

The BfM and BFSP models don't actually need glue.

Anything large and two part is in danger of looking as sucky as the Skull Pass cannon.

What's wrong with the cannon? I have 3 of them, and think they're just fine.

If the company wants to recruit ever younger audeience ...

And there's that assumption again that more basic starter sets are only for kids.

Kids are not the only ones who find the 3-part models more attractive for getting started. Being an adult doesn't suddenly make everyone excited about (or capable of) assembling multi-part models.

insaniak wrote:Kids are not the only ones who find the 3-part models more attractive for getting started. Being an adult doesn't suddenly make everyone excited about (or capable of) assembling multi-part models.

And that is why the 8-part Eldar Guardians aren't ever making their way into a basic set.

But I gotta say that the BfM SM look stupid with everybody staring straight ahead with cocked shoulders.

And while the new basic set might be a good deal, with the amount of SM I already own, I can't really see myself buying it except to bitz out.

I'm looking at buying the BFRW (Battle for Rynns World ?) just for the Orks, but I might just start another marine chapter as well.

I haven't done UltraMarines yet, and these allegedly come with Ultra Marine detailing. Even if I don't play it, it will be a loner army I can se to teach new players with.

Plus, I'm sure I could find homes for the 4-5 extra rulebooks.