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While that may be true, players will still create themed lists based around a mark...unless they are undivided. This list clearly isn't undivided since not all marks are represented. His list is designed to win games. Period. While I have already stated that I don't have a problem with that (I don't think it's cheesy), I only have said that if any criticism were to be made to his list it's that Khorne and Tzeentch hate each other thus 'theme-wise' makes no sense.

Capt K

Green Blow Fly wrote:It doesn't really matter now that Chaos is like a box of crayons that you mix and match. Oh well maybe they will do the Legion codices.

- G

Khorne and Tzeentch don't hate each other, Nurgle and Tzeentch and Khorne and Slaanesh are the ones with the animosity.

this list designed to win games? what are you smoking. I forget the chaos lord in terminator armour is the best model in the whole game. I take these marks for they match the lord models i have and like.

*sigh*...re-read your books and fluff. Khorne despises magic and psychic powers as well and views them as weak....i.e. hates them. Why do you think the blood god created the collar of khorne?

Capt K

Da Boss wrote:Khorne and Tzeentch don't hate each other, Nurgle and Tzeentch and Khorne and Slaanesh are the ones with the animosity.

Taking 32 terminators isn't an attempt to take advantage of the boost that the mark of tzeentch gives? Your terminators are tzeentch termies right?


Capt K

skkipper wrote:this list designed to win games? what are you smoking. I forget the chaos lord in terminator armour is the best model in the whole game. I take these marks for they match the lord models i have and like.

no the only marks in the army are the two lords. at 1750 any ways. at 1850 yes there is one squad of tzeentch termi's and one squad of khorne termis

he called your list cheese lol what a tool three falcons thats not cheese not cheese at all

on the plus side he has three nicely painted falcons to put on a shelf come 5th edition.

CaptKaruthors wrote:Khorne see the use of psychic powers as weak and cowardly, thus hates tzeentch. Khorne despises all psykers....why do you think they made the collar of khorne?

Capt K

KiMonarrez wrote:Um, maybe I'm not remembering it correctly, but I thought Khorne hated Slaanesh, and Tzeentch hated Nurgle.

So Tzeentch and Khorne is fine, fluffwise.

I dont think any of them like each other, but the antipathy is Khorne/Slaanesh and Tzeench/Nurgle. The reason being that Nurgle represents stagnation, while Tzeentch is the lord of change. The Khorne/Slaanesh thing is because Khorne worshipers externalize, while the slaaneshi folks are all about internal experiences.

CaptKaruthors wrote:Taking 32 terminators isn't an attempt to take advantage of the boost that the mark of tzeentch gives? Your terminators are tzeentch termies right?
Capt K

Erick - did you even bother to read his list on the first page of the thread? 1 mark of tzeentch.

khorne lord in terminator armour with demon weapon and combi melta
tzeentch lord terminator with deamon weapon
10 terminator with 2 heavy flamers 2 combi flamers and 8 power fist 1 lc 1 power wepon
10 terminators with 2 reapers 2 combi flamers 1 combi melta 2 chainfiist 1 lc 4 fists 3 power weapons
10 terminators with two reapers 2 combi meltas 3 fists
5 man chaos space marines
5 man chaos space marines

I hope you seriously don't believe this was a list designed to win games.

I hope you seriously don't believe this was a list designed to win games.

That's why I asked. If they aren't marked, then no... this list just has a lot of terminators and nothing more. Lastly, like I have been saying... marked or not, his list isn't cheesy. It is just is a hodge podge with no clear theme.

Capt K

CaptKaruthors wrote:His list is designed to win games. Period.

Maybe the statement above is taken out of context because it was said before you asked about the marks.

skkipper wrote:on the plus side he has three nicely painted falcons to put on a shelf come 5th edition.

Why? A falcon, in cover, not moving is very survivable. A rerollable cover save from fortune and holo field makes them a very tough nut to crack.

Erich you forget that the term Theme and Fluff are used very loosely in the Chaos codex. All thanks to Gav "I dont like fluff" Thorpe.



p.s. Gav get a job!

They are used loosely, because GW's philosophy regarding Chaos has gone back to 2nd edition where you have a bunch of units, but ultimately it is up to you to design a theme around your favorite patron god if you want to represent it that way. Basically GW is putting the responsibility back with the players to theme the army themselves rather than having 50 million lists to cover all the factions. The same thought was put into the Eldar codex, and also the new Ork codex.

Capt K

thehod wrote:Erich you forget that the term Theme and Fluff are used very loosely in the Chaos codex. All thanks to Gav "I dont like fluff" Thorpe.



p.s. Gav get a job!

Maybe the statement above is taken out of context because it was said before you asked about the marks.

At first glance I missed the fact that they were not marked and assumed they were. Why else would someone field terminators in those numbers without making them bitches to kill. But then I didn't see that they were marked and asked just incase he may have forgotten to mention they were marked.

Capt K

CaptKaruthors wrote:Why else would someone field terminators in those numbers without making them bitches to kill.

The answer to your question is just because. Keith actually plays a lot of 40K with models "just because". Not for extreme killing efficiency. He has played this was since we started playing back in college some 15 years ago.

Oh god you think mech eldar is cheese try facikng nids with it the kind with 6 carnies and 6 squads of stealers with broodlord and tyrant it just jsut massacre

@ the comments about the rivalries.

Us older gamers who have been playing 2,3 or more codexes ago, know the rivalries. The funny thing is that in early 3rd and second, Khorne hated Tzeencth and Nurgle hated Slaanesh. Later that changed around.

Know we have no rivalries, no sacred numbers, no nothing. To call a list with previously unfluffy mixes of marks is crazy. A new gamer who picks up the codex has no idea of past fluff, to him that book lays it all out.

In the new codex, there is no unfluffy mix of marks, regardless of old fluff.

Darkness wrote:Us older gamers who have been playing 2,3 or more codexes ago, know the rivalries. The funny thing is that in early 3rd and second, Khorne hated Tzeencth and Nurgle hated Slaanesh. Later that changed around.

While I can't speak for first 3rd Edition Chaos Codex as I do not own it, I can say that your comments on 2nd Ed are completely wrong. Tzeentch is certainly Khorne's chief rival - the 2nd Ed Codex says as much - but that's only as far as their power is concerned. Slaanesh is still Khorne's enemy (the Codex says that as well). The daemonic animosity rules only happened when Nurgle was near Tzeentch and when Slaanesh was near Khorne.

As far back as the Realms of Chaos books those hatreds remained.

So no, you're wrong there, unless you have something from the first 3rd Ed Codex that says otherwise.

BYE

CaptKaruthors wrote:Khorne see the use of psychic powers as weak and cowardly, thus hates tzeentch. Khorne despises all psykers....why do you think they made the collar of khorne?

Capt K

KiMonarrez wrote:Um, maybe I'm not remembering it correctly, but I thought Khorne hated Slaanesh, and Tzeentch hated Nurgle.

So Tzeentch and Khorne is fine, fluffwise.

There is actually a bit in Slaves to Darkness about Khorne despising the "tricksy" ways of Tzeentch, but otherwise respecting him for being the next eldest Chaos power. So I can sort of see a Khorne/Tzeentch alliance working out of mutual respect and/or a common need.

usernamesareannoying wrote:

KiMonarrez wrote:Um, maybe I'm not remembering it correctly, but I thought Khorne hated Slaanesh, and Tzeentch hated Nurgle.

So Tzeentch and Khorne is fine, fluffwise.

like so many have mentioned under the new dex everybody gets along oh so well but for the true [3rd editions] fluff fans it was always khorne and nurgle, tzeentch and slaanesh. any other combo was a no no.

Khornes hates all magic, this is why he wouldnt team up with tzeentch.

Cheexsta wrote:There is actually a bit in Slaves to Darkness about Khorne despising the "tricksy" ways of Tzeentch, but otherwise respecting him for being the next eldest Chaos power.

A bit OT, but what is the "age order" for the chaos gods. And I know Slaanesh is the youngest.

the whole point of the new chaos codex isn't deep set chaos lore but new recriuts who are leaning one way or the other so the spirit of cooperation has not been quenched by anciet animosity

Special K:

Here's the list - It goes Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh, Andre from OutKast, Jada, Kurupt, Nas and then me.

Cookie for the reference.

snooggums wrote: Khornes hates all magic, this is why he wouldnt team up with tzeentch.

I 'spose I have to quote it then, don't I:

'His chief rival is Tzeentch, the Great Sorcerer. Tzeentch is the patron if wizards just as Khorne is the patron of warriors. Naturally this rivalry does not prevent Khorne making common cause with Tzeentch when the prospects for blood-letting are great. Combined, the two gods wield greater power than any of the others. Of all his bother-gods Khorne despises Slaanesh most of all, for the self-indulgent sensualities of the Prince of Chaos are an affront to Khorne. Even so, Khorne may join forces with Slanesh when ecessary, much as it may gall him to do so.' - Codex: Chaos, 2nd Edition 40K

So no, once again, Tzeentch and Khorne have never been, and will never be, 'Ancient Enemies'. That setup remains between Khorne/Slaanesh and Nurgle/Tzeentch.

Even the very nature of the Chaos Gods should tell you which one is opposite of one another:

Khorne - Focus/Slaanesh - Excess
Nurgle - Stagnation/Tzeentch - Progress

BYE

I was thinking back to that quotation from the second edition codex too. Great book.

anytime you have 30+ terminators the possiblity for blood letting is great. : )
i just ordered resin bases for the whole lot

skkipper wrote:anytime you have 30+ terminators the possiblity for blood letting is great. : )

I agree!

And I have a hard time believing that anyone could call a 30 Terminator army 'cheese' or anything like that. Terminators are nice, but they're not that nice. There are far scarier things you can do with the new Chaos Dex, soul-crushingly bland as it is, and I doubt many of them involve waves of Terminators.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Special K:

Here's the list - It goes Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh, Andre from OutKast, Jada, Kurupt, Nas and then me.

Cookie for the reference.

Dear God. If you're gonna resurrect the nickname, at least get it right. It was AMAZING K. Someone else was Special K. Sheesh.

Oh yes, you're right. It's been such a long time.

Who was Special K then...

BYE