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Marines are NOT 15 points.

A tac squad is 90 points for 5 incl sergeant, and then it's 16pts per model to grow it. which means 170 points for 10 which gets you 10 marines incl seargent as well as a free flamer and a free HB / ML.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Savnock wrote:Servitors now do nothing on a 1-2 on a D6, tested for every turn.

Can you tell they're not getting a new model kit?

Pretty slowed since nobody in their right minds used Servitors anyway, this is just some idiot rules writer edited for being NASTY - Iorek on the page..

Before, we were told "the new codex isn't overpowered, just wait when the points costs come out and you'll see". Now we've heard Marines are still 15 points each, despite being given everything under the Sun and the Moon. So, any of those appeasing voices care to pipe up now? How is this anything but a lame jerkaround and across-the-board boost?

See above post. THEY ARE NOT 15 POINTS.

For Chaos marines, a five man unit is 105 points, which makes them more expensive. Then, at ten men they get a free flamer and ML, which basically recoups the losses of being a point more.
Yay for being a chaos marine!

Is the sgt in the 10-man squad a vet sgt (or at least does he have the same stats as a vet from the current codex) ?

If so, the cost of this squad in the current codex is:

10x15 (marines)
+15 (vet sgt)
+6 (flamer)
+5 (heavy bolter) or +10 (missile launcher)
total 176 or 181 pts.

So marines are actually cheaper in the new version (170 pts vs 176 or 181)

If the sgt is a normal sgt without improved stats then marines are more expensive (170pts vs 161 or 166)

Do the Marines have BP/CCW and Bolters like the renegades?

Greets
Schepp himself

marines 16 points bdw have frag and krag

Schepp makes the excellent point that CSMs get more weapon options. Marines cannot have BP/CCW unless they are assault squads (which has had me drastically rethink which list I will use for my custom chapter since I used the Traits to give my Tacticals BP/CCWs...)

While I really like the things I have seen in the new Marine list, I still see benefits in the DA and BA lists. It's all about how you want your army to play.

Jeff

Damn, I hoped that they at least have the option for BP/CCW.

Can they have two special weapons if they are 10 en strong? Or is it the usual one heavy/one special weapon combination?

If not, my (far future) planed army would be hard to build.

Greets
Schepp himself

I'd forgotten about the grenades and BP's

Its official - tac marines are cheaper (for the same loadout) than they were before!

JHall wrote:Marines cannot have BP/CCW unless they are assault squads

Well theres you're cause. Its interesting to think that CSM's are more flexible than "Tactical" squads. Needless to say however, we don't get our cool toys like the whirlwind, Razorback etc..

In game terms however, that extra attack can be very useful in CSM/SM combat, and given the mark of khorne makes them even more deadly, with 2/3 attacks, 4 on the charge!

I also noticed, however that their preds are a lot cheaper than ours. :(

Ozymandias wrote:Wait, so Pred Destructors are only 85 points (10 points cheaper than C: DA and C: BA)? And Land Speeders with Assault Cannons are 90 (again 100 for DA)?

And I can take an entirely bike mounted army with a bike mounted captain?

Why would I use my C: DA anymore?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Because your bikes scout and outflank and terminators DW assault turn 1!

Stand tall young man. It'll be all right.

does this new dex over write all the spin off, such as Templars? coz i love their models and ba ckground was thinking of starting a small project on them with a competative list in mind.

fitzeh wrote:Marines are NOT 15 points.

A tac squad is 90 points for 5 incl sergeant, and then it's 16pts per model to grow it. which means 170 points for 10 which gets you 10 marines incl seargent as well as a free flamer and a free HB / ML.

Do some math. 10 tactical marines x 15 pts each = 150pts. 15 pts for vet sgt (already build in). So the 5 points are for the "psuedo-free" weapon upgrades.

The sgt has 2 base attacks and I believe 9 LD

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:I saw the new SM codex tonight at GW retail store.

Marines are still 15 pts.

Tactical squads base price is 90 pts, includes vet sgt, but he is not called vet sgt.

marines are SIXTEEN points. a basic unit of ten is 170 before upgrades. (90 + 5x16)

Tech Marine is 50 pts. Can have 4 servitors, only 2 can carry heavy weapons

servitors cost 10 points each and come with servo arms. if they aren't with a techmarine, they can become mind-locked.

also, attack bikes are 40 points base w/heavy bolter

Did they drop the cost of Rhinos to 35? I had heard this was an option.. maybe to make em closer to Drop Pods?

If so, did Razorback price drop too?

I am VERY tempted to pop off my assault cannons on my Landspeeders now.. heck.. for adding that assault cannon I could have added a second Speeder (of course, squadrons are not great right now)..

And.. just to ask further.. did Typhoon missile systems stay the same cost, or did they also go up? Do they have new stat lines?

-Porkuslime

porkuslime wrote:Did they drop the cost of Rhinos to 35? I had heard this was an option.. maybe to make em closer to Drop Pods?

rhinos are 35. drop pods are ALSO 35.

If so, did Razorback price drop too?

yes. razorbacks w/TL heavy bolters are 40 base. they can get TL lascannons, TL assault can, TL multi-melta, lascannon w/TL plasma guns.

I am VERY tempted to pop off my assault cannons on my Landspeeders now.. heck.. for adding that assault cannon I could have added a second Speeder (of course, squadrons are not great right now)..

why not!? now you can get a speeder with JUST a heavy flamer on it.

And.. just to ask further.. did Typhoon missile systems stay the same cost, or did they also go up? Do they have new stat lines?

typhoons are H2 S8 AP3, and so ar Cyclones (H2)

HarveyDent wrote:yes. razorbacks w/TL heavy bolters are 40 base. they can get TL lascannons, TL assault can, TL multi-melta, lascannon w/TL plasma guns.

Anyone know cost for the Razorback upgrades?

And for that matter, MM and HF Landspeeders?

Lowinor wrote:

HarveyDent wrote:yes. razorbacks w/TL heavy bolters are 40 base. they can get TL lascannons, TL assault can, TL multi-melta, lascannon w/TL plasma guns.

Anyone know cost for the Razorback upgrades?

And for that matter, MM and HF Landspeeders?

TL lascannons are +35. i don't recall the others. i THINK the HF speeder is a free upgrade from the HB, but don't quote me on that. MM is +10 (iirc).

What about Sternguard? After all the hype on them, what's their point cost?

I for one don´t know what to say about any of the new things in the codex...
I knew that they favored UltraSmurfs but this is a bit silly even for GW...


//Edge

Tazok wrote:What about Sternguard? After all the hype on them, what's their point cost?

iirc they are 25 each, but if you take Kantor they are scoring, so you can have an elite army.

their ammo options are really, really powerful (s4 ap3 24" rapid fire, gets hot - this is the best one), especially since you can choose which one you want to use before you fire. another really good one is the standard bolter round that ignores cover saves (dragonfire bolts).

OnTheEdge wrote:I for one don´t know what to say about any of the new things in the codex...
I knew that they favored UltraSmurfs but this is a bit silly even for GW...


//Edge

power gamers will hate this book. every overpowered unit in the book was either neutered, or went way up in cost - anyone who was planning on playing with a specific, powerful unit and use multiples of it is going to have to completely rethink their army.

marine casual players are going to be annoyed because some of their units will be completely changed... while non-marine players will say "hey, awesome, marines aren't that great anymore."

personally, i have about 8 marine armies that must now be completely redone. i'm ok with it i guess, but it's still annoying to have to find new homes for 3 of my now-unusable apothecaries.

@ Harvey:
What, i thought they were useful? FNP for all in a command squad? Or is it just that you don't have command squads, and you can only have them in command?

It is irritating to have to completely reformat your army, but that is the nature of the GW pendulum I guess.

porkuslime wrote:I am VERY tempted to pop off my assault cannons on my Landspeeders now.. heck.. for adding that assault cannon I could have added a second Speeder (of course, squadrons are not great right now)..

And.. just to ask further.. did Typhoon missile systems stay the same cost, or did they also go up? Do they have new stat lines?

Or magnetize em

blinky wrote:@ Harvey:
What, i thought they were useful? FNP for all in a command squad? Or is it just that you don't have command squads, and you can only have them in command?

It is irritating to have to completely reformat your army, but that is the nature of the GW pendulum I guess.

oh the apothecaries are still good (mainly because they now work in HtH instead of against shooting). but my army had five of them...

other than that, i have no problems with the re-format except that i have to do it with sooo many different SM armies. ahh, whatever. i'll get over it

blinky wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

Marines are still 15 pts.

Ah, I see. So for the same price as chaos marines, they get ATSKNF, combat tactics, more weapon options and the like? Oh never mind, we have our generic daemons.

Well, Loyalists get that, weaker flexibility, an inability to take 2 assault weapon in a tactical squad, a lower Leadership attribute, and no second close combat weapon in melee.

HarveyDent wrote:TL lascannons are +35. i don't recall the others. i THINK the HF speeder is a free upgrade from the HB, but don't quote me on that. MM is +10 (iirc).

Thanks.

Cost on Power Fist, Thunder Hammer, and combi-weapons on sergeants? I think that's pretty much what I'm missing from finalizing my new army...

Right, as Derling mentioned, there are still lots of good options for CSMs. As someone who has almost 4K of Black Legion painted with almost 70 models of basic CSMs, I still think they pack quite the punch. I love the 2 CCWs and 2 Specials that Chaos can get. Granted, you have to have 10 man or bigger squads to get the 2 Specials, but they still can dish out some firepower.

I would love it for the Loyalists to be able to take 2 Specials. I find Heavy Weapons to be useless in Tactical squads for the most part. Especially now that you can't take a small 5 man squad with a missile launcher or lascannon to park on a hill somewhere.

Ozymandias wrote:Why would I use my C: DA anymore?

Because Jervis is a genius and you love the Dark Angels codex with all of your body (including your peepee)?