Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If you sort by qualifying rate, you get this:

Q% Army (#)
------------------
70% Orks (7)
50% Dark Eldar (2)
50% Daemons (5)
44% Tyranids (4)
42% Chaos Marines (11)
38% Eldar (5)

34% Average (45)

33% Guard (3)
30% Tau (3)
29% Necrons (2)
9% Marines (3)
0% Daemonhunters (0)

By qualification rates, the Orks did *very* well, but so did "uncompetitive" Dark Eldar & Daemons. Nids, Chaos, and Eldar are all solid picks. It remains to be seen how new Marines will do with their new Codex.

If you correct for quantities of players, Orks are *clearly* the top army, but CSM and Daemons are right up there as the alternative competitive choices to take.

The bottom half says that Witchhunters are a non-starter, along with Daemonhunters (but good on them for at least trying). Guard and Necrons, at least, get new Codices next year, so that's good.

Note to the Dark Eldar, Inquisition & Necron guys - if you don't show up in force at GW's events, it only proves to GW that you don't matter... In this regard, the bottom tier WFB guys (Dogs of War, Wood Elves, Chaos Dwarves) were *much* better about showing up and making GW know that they weren't dead yeat.

And special note to the Dark Eldar players - obviously, you're still competitive, so no, you probably don't need a "new" book anytime soon...

Janthkin wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Studies show that red cars are caught breaking the speed limit the most (yes, really). Does this mean red cars in general have stronger engines?

No, but there are a bunch of interesting psych studies on red cars, ranging from "cops notice them more" to "people who buy red cars are more likely to drive fast anyway."

Actually, the real problem is that red cars stick out like a sore thumb in a sea of silver & tan cars. That means it's easy for a lazy cop to pick them out of the crowd with his laser / radar gun, and then it's easy for the cop to chase the exact car to pull them over.

OTOH, if you're driving a car that's identical to a bunch of similar cars, it'll be a lot harder for the cop.

IOW, the key point is that being red helps with getting caught by the cops when you do speed.

Kilkrazy wrote:

InyokaMadoda wrote:

usernamesareannoying wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Your numbers are worthless.

what an awesome contribution to the topic...

they might not be the best but i think they are one of the most well rounded and this give a strong general a very good tool for making a great list.

Actually, from a statistical point of view, this 'opinion' is not far wrong. There isn't a big enough sample to draw any meaningful conclusions from - only that it would appear to be the case that Orks are one of the stronger army choices. As to whether they are the strongest or not, you would need many more, controlled, results to actively say.

Without my stats head on, it's easy to see why people would come to this conclusion and I would say that, like many others already in this thread, I would vote them as a 'top tier' army.

A valid sample doesn't need to be large, it needs to be representative of the population under study and large enough.

The population to be studied needs to be defined. Since the 40K population is divided between tournament players and narrative players, and narrative players don't care about codex power, it may be reasonable to say that the population to be sampled is the tournament going population. In which case, this sample may well be representative. We do not know if the sample is large enough, since we don't know the total size of the tournament going population.

Yes. I know. I was trying to simplify. If you'd prefer for me to deliver a better picture on statistical theory and the true value of sample size, then feel free to attend one of my lectures.

Janthkin said: "very few armies can bring the tools to deal with Nidzilla, MEQ-spam, and the Green Tide, all at the same time."

I think that is the real reason why orcs are doing well at tournament scenes.

So far I think the main "power" element that orcs have going is the vast number of competitive builds and the difficulty a "takes all comers" list has in dealing with those different builds and all other tournament armies.

The other thing orcs can do is spam shooting and assault at the same time. Few other codex allow you to spam shooting units and assault units with the ease that the orc codex does.

I think people will start to realize that torrent of fire is the way to deal with MEQ and horde armies alike, and this will change the orc dominance. Once people start taking squads of 10 termies with Thunder hammer and storm shield, no one will be relying on their plasma guns to kill terminators anymore. They will want as many multiple shot weapons as they can get as that will allow them to deal with tough elite units as well as lightly armored horde units.

Meph

Mephistoles1 wrote:Janthkin said: "very few armies can bring the tools to deal with Nidzilla, MEQ-spam, and the Green Tide, all at the same time."

I think that is the real reason why orcs are doing well at tournament scenes.

I think people will start to realize that torrent of fire is the way to deal with MEQ and horde armies alike, and this will change the orc dominance. Once people start taking squads of 10 termies with Thunder hammer and storm shield, no one will be relying on their plasma guns to kill terminators anymore. They will want as many multiple shot weapons as they can get as that will allow them to deal with tough elite units as well as lightly armored horde units.

Meph

Speaking as a Guard player, I've always known that volume of fire is crucial. Unfortunately, my codex charges me more for Guardsmen than Orks pay for Boyz.... They've got more bodies than I've got guns!

Don't even shoot the 10-man, 3+ save termie assault squad. Just walk away slowly. It takes 36 S3 (AP > 2) attacks to kill a Terminator; it's not worth the effort.

Janthkin wrote:Speaking as a Guard player,

Don't even shoot the 10-man, 3+ save termie assault squad. Just walk away slowly. It takes 36 S3 (AP > 2) attacks to kill a Terminator; it's not worth the effort.

That is what Demolishers are for. 2 pie plates, and job's done!

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Janthkin wrote:Speaking as a Guard player,

Don't even shoot the 10-man, 3+ save termie assault squad. Just walk away slowly. It takes 36 S3 (AP > 2) attacks to kill a Terminator; it's not worth the effort.

That is what Demolishers are for. 2 pie plates, and job's done!

Not against the new Storm Shields....

OK, *3* pie plates.

Which is how many you should be fielding anyways...

Orks have one really OTT unit. If you spam them out and just take a buffer unit the list is stupidly strong. But it isn't nearly all that if you spread the points around and try to take a more balanced force. You definantly won't be winning all your games.

I think its kinda sad that the strongest Ork build is a stand-off army. That just rubs me the wrong way on so many different levels.

black templars are made to kill orks. what the numbers show is only the number of GOOD players playing each race.