Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

People are forgetting this was the 'ard boyz and not the GT. I was at the GT and had a blast this year. One of the best I've been too of the convention era. I haven't read any real calls of cheating at the GT, just the ard boyz.

With most things the bigger the stakes, big prizes, the worst it brings out. On both sides of the equation. I didn't watch the ard boyz so I have no idea what happened. But I do know it's like this because of the prize level with such a low bar. No comp, no painting and the play if you got um theme.

There have been problems in the past with GT's but no where near this level. It a shame they were on the same weekend.

wynn studio

Moderation note.

I've been reading the thread and noticed a couple of posts saying this kind of thread (discussing cheating) should not be locked.

Previous threads on this topic have been locked because they were spiralling down into flame fests.

Any thread which becomes a slanging match is going to get locked, whatever the topic. Dakka is not a bar brawl.

Whenever the topic of cheating is bound up with accusations against identified persons, there are complications. The chance of a flame fest is vastly increased. Also, it sort of turns Dakka into a courhouse. Dakka is not a courthouse and has no desire to become one.

In my view this Hard Boyz issue was been very well aired. Both sides have made their points in several threads. Neither side is likely to budge from their position. The opinion of users is spread across a spectrum.

It's time to let it drop.

I say that not to defend anyone, but because the issue will not get resolved and it deflects people from better ways of spending their time.

Rather than arguing about specific cases, you should put together a code about proper conduct in games, ways of cheating and how to prevent them. That would be a much more positive use of everyone's time.

JohnHwangDD wrote:2. Wrecking Crew

Gareth is a WC member. He knows how to play Daemons. He fished for a way to avoid the two biggest downsides of his army in order to get an advantage the he could convert into a "win". From what I've seen, *none* of you WC members have a problem with this. And that's a pity.

If you (and your WC buddies) don't condemn it, then by inference, I can only conclude that you condone such "tactics". Even more's the pity.

3. Why it matters

This appears the first time someone's actually come forward and decided to say "enough". Bravo for them. They obviously decided that getting auto-dinged on future "Sports" scores would be worth the fuss.

The debate is healthy, and I'm sorry that your guy looks like an out-and-out cheater. I'm sorry that he's part of your crew. I'm sorry that you feel a need to defend him, rather than to expel him from your group.

Most of all, I'm sorry that this is how GTs are now "won".

Here is the thing. Had this never recieved all the attention it had, Gareth would have been put on probation without a second thought. However, if someone attacks your buddy you have to stand up for him. He has been told to only use the 60mm bases from now on. As for the mission, I see why everyone is up in arms about it, but I assure you he did not fish for that answer. Thats how it got ruled in the semis in Orlando, and purely because of last years missions.

Kilkrazy wrote:Moderation note.

I've been reading the thread and noticed a couple of posts saying this kind of thread (discussing cheating) should not be locked.

Previous threads on this topic have been locked because they were spiralling down into flame fests.

Any thread which becomes a slanging match is going to get locked, whatever the topic. Dakka is not a bar brawl.

Whenever the topic of cheating is bound up with accusations against identified persons, there are complications. The chance of a flame fest is vastly increased. Also, it sort of turns Dakka into a courhouse. Dakka is not a courthouse and has no desire to become one.

In my view this Hard Boyz issue was been very well aired. Both sides have made their points in several threads. Neither side is likely to budge from their position. The opinion of users is spread across a spectrum.

It's time to let it drop.

I say that not to defend anyone, but because the issue will not get resolved and it deflects people from better ways of spending their time.

Rather than arguing about specific cases, you should put together a code about proper conduct in games, ways of cheating and how to prevent them. That would be a much more positive use of everyone's time.

This is disturbing modquisition. That you would put the hammer down on a thread that, at least for the first two pages, has been remarkably civil is bad form. Why the aversion to discussing GW events marred by poor judging? Yakface's two contributions and subsequent silence speak volumes. This is because it is clear that the rules violation was flagrant and that the issue was not rocket science to properly judge. What purpose does continued discussion about this serve? 1. We can hope to change behavior in the future. 2. We can make sure that GW understands that, contrary to what a GW boss said, it is reasonable to expect basic competence from judges at events.

If your buddy is in the wrong, you don't.

Anyway, as KK said I think a checklist for avoiding cheating is a good idea.
Here's my suggestions:
-Get rid of subjective scoring so that people aren't afraid of being "dinged" for insisting on decent play/asking a judge.
Any time I've seen these scoring systems in action they have been abused by unscrupulous players.
-Individual players need to take responsibility for calling their opponents on cheating. A lot of anti cheating threads have the injured party admitting they let the guy get away with it despite being unhappy. Well, if it bugs you that much, don't let him away with it. Pull out the rules, point out the real way things work, if he is still being a git, call over a judge and explain the situation to him. Then watch your opponent like a hawk and don't be afraid to call him on every little thing. Against a nice guy who doesn't cheat and is cool with my, I'm fairly easygoing. If someone is an asshat to me, I mae sure he doesn't get away with it.
-Insist that every player bring rulebook, codex, list and relevant FAQ to each game. Give 5-10 minutes at the start of every round for people to look over lists and discuss stuff.
-Have set down standards for terrain effects.
-Don't mess with basic conventions of the game, as Ard Boys is wont to do.

Once you do this, cheaters are far less likely to prosper. You've just gotta be willing to stand up to aggressive players, and willing to ask a judge promptly if you can't come to an agreement.
I've never really had a problem with cheating if I followed these guidelines. When I didn't, that's when it becomes a problem.
Also, if someone is a jerk when you play, don't socialise with him outside of game or play him in friendlies.
If everyone does that, pretty soon jerks will go away.

JohnWangHH what you have said is all speculation and most if not 100% is untrue. Not cool.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:JohnWangHH what you have said is all speculation and most if not 100% is untrue. Not cool.

G

Where is the speculation? JohnWangHH is merely presenting facts that have been admitted by the individual in question. I read stelek's blog and you accused him of the same thing yet both he and johnwangHH base their comments on facts that are known. Speculation would be to say that he was a cheater rather than just a player who does not know the rules of his own codex. In that case you are making a judgement about his intent and that is speculation. Do you understand the difference? Go reread the posts of your fellow WC member and you will say that he admits to the deployment and that he admits to traveling with two base sizes (just in case?). This is not speculation. Speculation would involve trying to figure out why the judge was manifestly incompetent. Speculation would be to figure out why the vast majority of 40k players are so nice as to allow power-gaming individuals to triumph. Speculation would involve wondering if WC is also a PvP guild on World of Warcraft.

GBF: I'd attach more weight to your posts if they went into more detail and weren't nearly all defensive reactions.

Deadshane1 wrote:

Representing WC, I'll go ahead and say to the community that we're sorry for any confusion on this subject.

No confusion. Your boy cheated and now you're trying to run damage control.

Wrecking Crews mission as stated on our website, is to form an elite group of competetive gamers that consider sportsmanship always as a major factor in placing highly in any tournement.

Obviously not as majorly as you should, amirite?

Any of you out there that have met with us KNOW that we're all about the GAME. As an entire group, we're all about honest gaming. We don't use tricks as a rule and any deviation from that policy will be addressed within our own community. If there were any shenanigans going on during the 'Ard Boys, rest assured, its's being looked into. Wrecking Crew wants nothing other than an Extremely pleasant, honorable and enjoyable a$$whooping for our opponents, one that you'll come back for again and again with a smile on your face.

Even if that "a$$whooping" comes from cheating? You shouldn't be so quick to pat your own back. The image the public has of your little circle jerk group isn't being improved by posting something like this

Above all that, remember, we're playing with toy soldiers. It's not the olympics. The offenders will eventually come to pay or realise for what they've done. I'm sure I'll have more to say on the matter as people reply.

Tell that to your boy who cheated and tried to scapegoat his opponent, then the judge.

olympia wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Moderation note.

I've been reading the thread and noticed a couple of posts saying this kind of thread (discussing cheating) should not be locked.

Previous threads on this topic have been locked because they were spiralling down into flame fests.

Any thread which becomes a slanging match is going to get locked, whatever the topic. Dakka is not a bar brawl.

Whenever the topic of cheating is bound up with accusations against identified persons, there are complications. The chance of a flame fest is vastly increased. Also, it sort of turns Dakka into a courhouse. Dakka is not a courthouse and has no desire to become one.

In my view this Hard Boyz issue was been very well aired. Both sides have made their points in several threads. Neither side is likely to budge from their position. The opinion of users is spread across a spectrum.

It's time to let it drop.

I say that not to defend anyone, but because the issue will not get resolved and it deflects people from better ways of spending their time.

Rather than arguing about specific cases, you should put together a code about proper conduct in games, ways of cheating and how to prevent them. That would be a much more positive use of everyone's time.

This is disturbing modquisition. That you would put the hammer down on a thread that, at least for the first two pages, has been remarkably civil is bad form. ...

.

Please note that this thread has not been locked.

Da Boss wrote:GBF: I'd attach more weight to your posts if they went into more detail and weren't nearly all defensive reactions.

I tend not to attach any weight to his posts because most of them are just trolling. Hell, read his own sigs and info and he admits to as much.

The guy had Bloodcrushers on Terminator bases, right?

I have a brand new Blood Crusher sitting in my truck, unopened. I'm going to go outside and see what base is in the box. Back in 2.

...

...

...

...

There's no terminator base in the Blood Crusher box. The model doesn't even fit on a terminator base. Its body alone is 2 inches long. Wow. I'm pretty sure this doesn't pass the Sesame Street 'which of these things doesn't belong?' test.

The Daemon Codex says:

Daemonic Assault: No model in this army is ever placed on the battlefield during deployment.

Wow. That's really clear cut. Really real.

This guy isn't a scrub player who hasn't figured out how his army works. He's part of an elite nation-spanning gaming club. Right?

So how does Elite Gaming Club Guy "miss" that part of the rules?


So I understand what you're attempting to do, Deadshane, but I don't think there's much confusion on the topic. At all.

Until we can explain away those two points, well, seems like the "My wife fell down the stairs" defense.

Has this been discussed "enough?" Not to my satisfaction.

The essential question remains, unaddressed by any of his defenders.

Is there an argument to be made that allowing the Dawn Of War deployment rules to trump the codex daemons deployment would not be a HUGE game breaking advantage, one that would clearly be too huge an advantage to be fair, given that dawn of war deployment is one third of games?

All of the "give him the benefit of the doubt" arguments presuppose that a good answer to this question exists. No answer=no benefit of the doubt. I'm still waiting, but I think I'll be waiting forever.

Here's the crux of the issue.

Darkness wrote: However, if someone attacks your buddy you have to stand up for him.

The player who got cheated doesn't have tons of buddies on the boards. He was not a "famous" player nor was he a part of any "elite crew." We need to make sure this does not happen again. Otherwise our tournament scene becomes a popularity contest. Why do we need to keep on this? So the next person who tries to pull crap like this thinks twice about whether they want to weather the storm of criticism that comes with high level players pretending to be noobs.

Gareth converted all his blood crushers... He did not use any of the actual models made by GW. He used the new bloodletters mounted on steeds... So at first when he was playing the army he had no idea they are supposed to be mounted on the 60mm dreadnaught base but when he found out he purchased 24 60mm magnetized bases from Gale Force Nine. The rule book specifically states you may ask your opponent for permission to field models on bases they are not supplied with, which he did so that is in no way cheating. Also the tournament does not have scoring for sportsmanship so it is silly to imply Gareth made some type of comment he would chipmunk an opponent if they did not let him use the 40mm bases... really.

GW has made an official statement that all decisions made by their judges are final. You can go their forums if you would like to read it for yourself. It pretty much sums up everything. Nothing was swept under the proverbial rug. Hey these guys that judge are volunteers... let's cut them some slack for once.

Darkness wrote:Here is the thing. Had this never recieved all the attention it had, Gareth would have been put on probation without a second thought. However, if someone attacks your buddy you have to stand up for him. He has been told to only use the 60mm bases from now on.

As for the mission, I see why everyone is up in arms about it, but I assure you he did not fish for that answer. Thats how it got ruled in the semis in Orlando, and purely because of last years missions.

That's all well and good, however, the more the attention, the more important the visibility of the response.

In this case, Deadshane's response would normally be taken as the club's official stance, per his opening with "Wrecking Crew Founding Member..." But then he goes on to make excuses and defend his guy's actions and stance. IMO, it's weak. Yes, he's lost games to cheaters, but he wasn't playing for the overall, and he didn't care. Gareth *was* playing for the overall, and that's what makes this different. As for not hearing until afterwards, that has a lot to do with how GW probably doesn't announce who's in contention while the games are underway.

Being told to only use the 60mm bases "from now on" rings pretty hollow, as he already "won" the event and prizes. So what does that mean? His local pals won't get cheated by his using undersized bases when Deep Striking? Well that's great for them, but he should have been using them from the beginning. OTOH, if he were to return the prizes, or send them to the guy he cheated, then that would actually mean something.

BTW, I'm sorry if this is too personal / intrusive, so you don't need to answer, but what does "on probation" mean in a virtual club like the WC? And am I to understand that, because many other people had the audacity to complain, the WC has decided to suspend whatever normal disciplinary processes and procedures that would have applied?

From what I understand, at no point did Gareth bring the Judge to the table and ask: "I play Daemons, and my Codex says that I never deploy models on the board, but DoW says I can deploy up to 1 HQ and 2 Troops on the board. Can I deploy those units even though my Codex expressly forbids this?"

Instead, he got a judge to agree with a bad ruling of which there is no evidence of ever having occurred. And what Orlando has to do with Ard Boyz, or why anyone would feel bound by any such decision is completely beyond me. As far as I'm concerned, he made up the Orlando ruling (unless you have the name of the GW official Judge, and can get that Judge to explain his reasoning), simply so that he could present his case as being more official than simply asking if he could break his Codex and cheat his opponent. It's a false appeal to authority that never should have been made. I feel really bad for the GW Judge (if he was even actually consulted, which appears to be something that nobody can corroborate).

But if it really did happen that way in Orlando, who was the Judge there, and how was the argument presented to him? Who was at Orlando (non-WC) who can corroborate this?

____

Green Blow Fly wrote:JohnWangHH what you have said is all speculation and most if not 100% is untrue. Not cool.

G

LOL. That has got to be the weakest retort / defense I've seen to date.

Oh yeah, if you're going to spell it out get my name right. You can even abbreviate it to "JHDD", if the sheer effort of copy-paste / press "Quote" is too hard for you.
____

Anyhow, if he converted to use Steeds, then the base would have to be at least 50mm round. GW horses start on 25x50mm, but I'm guessing they don't DS nearly as well as 40mm round. And those GW horses won't fit on 40mm. Unless he started with LotR horses. If that's the case, it's even worse.

But he should have looked at the old Juggernaut model for reference. While that wasn't based, it's a huge model, and no way does it fit on 40mm round, either.

"Hey, how about you let me use my Conscripts based on Dreadnought bases, you give permission for that, because you're a good Sport, right?"... "and I've also got these LOS-blocking converted signboard tanks that I want to use, you're cool with that, right?"


Also, please be clear that I'm not going after the Judges. I think the Judge got rolled. Though I do think that GW ought to change a number of practices, such as requiring heavier monitoring of those players in contention for prizes on Day 2.

I explained about the bases. It was not cheating but you are trying to say that it is. That is what I am saying.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:I explained about the bases. It was not cheating but you are trying to say that it is. That is what I am saying.

G

Uhhh... that may be what you think you are saying, but it's certainly not what the facts you are relaying support:

Green Blow Fly wrote:Gareth converted all his blood crushers... He did not use any of the actual models made by GW. He used the new bloodletters mounted on steeds... So at first when he was playing the army he had no idea they are supposed to be mounted on the 60mm dreadnaught base but when he found out he purchased 24 60mm magnetized bases from Gale Force Nine.

By your own telling he knew ahead of the tournament that his models were on the wrong bases, and he had the right bases with him. That's the bit people are having the hardest time wrapping their heads around (I know I am); he had the right bases and made the effort to convince his opponent that he should be allowed to use the wrong ones.

you have the right to ask your opponent to use a different base other than what is provided in the box. It's right there in the rules. That is in no way cheating or misleading. Gareth never said to anyone he should be allowed to use the 40mm bases... He asked permission to use them. Seeing this is legal it's a non issue at best really.


G

Green Blow Fly wrote:you have the right to ask your opponent to use a different base other than what is provided in the box. It's right there in the rules. That is in no way cheating or misleading. Gareth never said to anyone he should be allowed to use the 40mm bases... He asked permission to use them. Seeing this is legal it's a non issue at best really.
G

You have to admit (instead of hard core defending the dude) that this alone is suspect. He is betting on his opponents ignorance. It appears he also knew that Deploying in DOW was not the correct way it should played, but he asked a judge anyway to see if they would rule in the same way (as a previous tournament)... again suspect.

I am a Daemon (Khorne, Nurgle) player, and 95% of the time if I get all my daemons in on turn two its a wrap. The DS is a balancing mechanic for the Daemons, if you eliminate this from 1/3 of the games one plays, that is a enormous advantage for the daemons, and they would be Over powered.

I can see if there was one questionable action, but 2 counts of shadiness in one game is suspect. I'm going to employ his tactics in games for a week, and watch my win record go up to 100%.

Mausama

OK, lots of discussion about the bases, so let's see what the rules say:

GW Rulebook, p.3 wrote:Bases
Citadel miniatures are normally supplied with a plastic base. If so, they must be glued onto their bases before they can be used in the game.

Some players like to mount their models on impressive scenic bases. As mounting your models on different-sized bases might affect the way they interact with the rules, make sure before the game that your opponent does not mind this.

Para 1: "Citadel miniatures". The book presumes, properly, that official miniatures will be used, not conversions.

Presuming that the conversion is essentially similar, they "must" use those supplied bases. For standard play, there are no alternatives.

Then it talks about "impressive scenic bases", which we all know means upsizing per the previous rulebook. Those 40mm bases in question aren't impressive at all, at least not nearly like what would be possible using the official 60mm base.

Then it notes that a size change "might affect the way they interact with the rules". Like, say, squeezing in more models when Deep Striking? Yea.

Finally, it admonishes "make sure before the game that your opponent does not mind this." By nearest immediate scope of reference, one can presume that GW is talking about ensuring that the opponent is aware of the possible rules interaction. As in: "I based my models on 40mm bases. My entire army Deep Strikes into play. Smaller bases mean that I can Deep Strike in a smaller space before I risk a Deep Strike Mishap. Do you mind this?"
___

"As mounting your models on different-sized bases might affect the way they interact with the rules, make sure before the game that your opponent does not mind this."

And the keyword "as" really is the kicker. When you get into a gaming situation, you need to ensure that your opponent doesn't mind the way that the new bases interact with the rules. It's a pretty strong statement, because the potential rules interaction is what you need to get the opponent to agree to.

Note that it doesn't break the thoughts into separate sentences: "Mounting your models on different-sized bases might affect the way they interact with the rules. "Make sure before the game that your opponent does not mind you using different-sized bases."

I don't see the issue and that is all I will say. Have at it.

G

@GBF - Thank you for conceding the point.

Green Blow Fly wrote:About the bases... Gareth is a college student and cannot afford $50 per model for each blood crusher so he converted his. He did not know that the model comes with a 60mm base when he built the army. He later bought 60mm bases so he can put his original 40mm bases on top of them. The rule book states you can ask your opponent for permission to use a base not supplied with the model so there is no cheating in that regard.

G
i

But Bloodcrushers are not $50 per model, they are half that price. It is this kind of hyperbole that has contributed to this whole situation. It is a mis-statement. It stretches the truth to elicit a favorable response to your side of the discussion. Much like presenting the DOW deployment rules in a slightly different way to increase the chance of getting the ruling in your favor.

DarthDiggler wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:About the bases... Gareth is a college student and cannot afford $50 per model for each blood crusher

But Bloodcrushers are not $50 per model, they are half that price. It is this kind of hyperbole that has contributed to this whole situation. It is a mis-statement. It stretches the truth to elicit a favorable response to your side of the discussion. Much like presenting the DOW deployment rules in a slightly different way to increase the chance of getting the ruling in your favor.

True!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1120033&prodId=prod1170209&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

Chaos Daemons Bloodcrusher of Khorne
...
Price: $25.00

So rather than run around in circles of accusations, dibelief and defence, how would you guys look to improve the Ard boyz tournament in the future.

Stelek, on his blog seems obsessed with people using large dice and implies that if you use them you are cheating.
Large ex-casino dice are being actively encouraged in the Australia tournament circuit so that dice cheating doesn't become an issue.

Perhaps they should just dump the ard boyz tournament...

When the codex was released, I was ordering Crushers for $18.50 per model from an ebay store. I just did a basic search and found NIB models for $17.00 after currency conversion.

24 Crushers are indeed an expensive prospect, but if anybody is going to get into this hobby they'd better have several hundred dollars to drop on it.

Even with the financial situation aside, I'm sure an elite gamer club guy knew that Crushers came on the larger base.... and didn't manage to get them on there while he was "converting" them.

Just like he knew that Daemons never deploy.

So rather than run around in circles of accusations, dibelief and defence, how would you guys look to improve the Ard boyz tournament in the future

This one was entirely the fault of the GW judges. They made a bad call allowing models "converted for advantage" and then made another bad call allowing an army to break its codex rules.

Sometimes organizers are going to have a guy who shows up that makes a series of 'tard moves that invalidates their event. In this situation, they shouldn't just try to gloss it over with 'initial ruling stands!' banality because it sets precedence that ruins future events.

However, it's also on the players' shoulders to have the balls to stand up for themselves. If they're looking at a guy with illegal models deployed illegally, they should *not* game it out and then bitch later. If you're willing to play against a bs player, you have to be willing to accept the bs results. GW hobbyists are always going to have to be their own police.

sourclams wrote:

This one was entirely the fault of the GW judges. They made a bad call allowing models "converted for advantage" and then made another bad call allowing an army to break its codex rules.

What you may be forgetting is that when the judge who supposedly made the call in the first place was approached by Gareth's opponent in that game and questioned as to the call, he claimed he never made it, and none of the other judges remember hearing him make the call.

Bunker wrote:

sourclams wrote:

This one was entirely the fault of the GW judges. They made a bad call allowing models "converted for advantage" and then made another bad call allowing an army to break its codex rules.

What you may be forgetting is that when the judge who supposedly made the call in the first place was approached by Gareth's opponent in that game and questioned as to the call, he claimed he never made it, and none of the other judges remember hearing him make the call.

There may be something to this. Someone on the GW community site asked Gareth the name of the judge. Gareth did not respond.

Didn't he say the judge's name was Devlon or something like that at one point?

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:how would you guys look to improve the Ard boyz tournament in the future.

Stelek, on his blog seems obsessed with people using large dice and implies that if you use them you are cheating.
Large ex-casino dice are being actively encouraged in the Australia tournament circuit so that dice cheating doesn't become an issue.

Perhaps they should just dump the ard boyz tournament...

IMO, dropping Ard Boyz (as it currently stands) isn't a bad idea. In fact, I think that killing Ard Boyz would be an excellent idea. GW really did a foolish thing by encouraging non-Sports, non-Paint, non-Comp play. This was a terrible idea, and the results are exactly what one would have expected - dodgy sportsmanship and unhappy people.

The dice issue isn't the dice per se, more of a dice manipulation problem. The large dice simply allow certain kinds of tricks, specifically the group "drop". If you have very large dice, and arrange them to be all 4+ showing. Then clump them together and only lift them an inch above the table before dropping them, then they will be mostly 4+ aftewards. The tightness of the clump prevents an honest bounce or roll. If you practice the technique (and you can bet dollars to donuts that they do this - *all* manipulators do), you can get *very* consistent doing this.

Now *honest* rolling, which includes at least 2 bounces before settling on the tabletop, will give better (i.e. more even) rolls overall. That is why Casinos force players to *throw* the dice the length of the table and *bounce* them off the opposite cushion. If betters were allowed to simply drop the dice, or finger roll them off the palm, they can control the outcome very effectively. Just try some of these GT-winning dice tricks at a Casino and see what happens... You'll probably be gently escorted out of the building by a couple of gorillas after the second or third try.

Anyhow, the dice are relatively easy:
- mandatory "official" event dice with logo, part of entry fee (prevents weighted dice)
- mandatory dice cups (at least 3 shakes, opponent may demand re-roll if fewer shakes or no cup)
- mandatory dice trays (at least 3 bounces, outside tray must be re-rolled)

As for the rules:
- automatic expulsion of cheaters
- top tables watched by judges on Day 2