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yes gw is very costly but the metal models are made of tin and the chinese are buying lots of it so therefore the cost must go up on metal mini's

i have the same problem, i dont want to buy models and not use them, ive been trying to make a effective deathguard list for months and slowly been narrowing down the cost, why? to make sure the models are WORTH it, that and i dont have any money.

I want to paint a kitkat bar so that it looks like a VTOL stick of deodorant.

nice, The deep blue model picture in an old White Dwarf and then again, with the first version of the VDR?

Nice

JohnHwangDD wrote:I have no idea what the OP is talking about.

That's a fairly common theme with you though, isn't it DD?

BYE

"i have spent £200 and will probbaly have to spend another 200 before gaming needs are content. "

200 + 200 = 400

I hadnt realised that the currency had changed value but its still $605.447

£400/$600 is a lot of cash though for what you're getting.You can have a hell of a lot of nights out partying for £400.Thats where my money goes lol.

If you have to rinse yourself about the amount of money you're spending on your chosen hobby, then perhaps you're in the wrong hobby.

You really have two options when it comes to money, you either hoard it, or you spend it. What you spend it on is actually irrelevant, as everything has an alternative...and a human can go insane considering all the alternatives.

One member hinted that you have confused "need" with "want"....to a point I would agree. I would also argue that a human doesn't NEED anything, as even the choice to live is exactly that....a choice.

So stop moaning, and get to the point...You want GW to produce and supply you with miniatures for nothing or very close to nothing....this is not in keeping with "reality". Accept that life has a cost, and you can chose to meet those costs, or fade away....

@ the OP.

I actually think GW prices are pretty reasonable, even with this recent price rise on certain parts of their stock. As someone who has just got back in after a 10 year hobby coma, I find:

a) The starter box sets (40k &WHFB) are roughly the same cost (or less!) for way, way better quality miniatures, number of miniatures, useful items like templates etc.

b) Plastics fantastics. The regiment boxes, multipart, are like startrek technology compared to the 'everybody stand to attention' plastics of old.

c) White Dwarf has gone up to £4.50. Same price as all other magazines. Still good value, since even its 'adverts' are for new miniatures, which I enjoy looking at. Unlike every other magazine in existence, which are 90% aftershave ads.

d) Every other alternative you have listed at the end of the day leaves you with nothing. A well painted mini is art.

John, your profile says you started war gaming in 1980, this means you must be at least 30+ years old. You will have a job, so you will have far more disposable income than say, an 18 year old student such as Darth, who doesn't have a job because he is busy studying. I am in the same position. How can you expect a person in this situation to "just leave it". It is a hobby we enjoy. We shouldn't have to stop playing because GW are set on making huge profit. It is unfair that GW charge almost extortionate prices and get away with it because they dominate the market.
And besides, how can you compare a care to some plastic/metal figurines anyway. It doesn't make any sense.
I might as well just say "Well, GW might be pricey but hey, a 6 bedroom mansion makes war hammer look like a piece of "

PS: White Dwarfe is awful, you pay £4.50 for something that is just an advertisement with the occasional battle report or painting feature thrown in for good measure. Even these features constantly bang on about the latest product.

Delephont another member missing the point of the thread. Im not "whining" im putting forward the question of whether GW prices are realistic anymore.

As konversionz said, its enough for a lot of nights out.

Are you saying money spent at GW is diffarent to money spent anywhere else?

P.S lots of these posts have been great, i do understand that warhammer has massive playability and lifespan.

Hi all.
I can remember when GW B&M stores sold a wide range of products, and Citadel Miatures were priced competativley.(Yes I am very old..... )

Ever since GW stores started selling GW-Citadel stuff in isolation has thier price rises outstripped inflation and other manufacturers.

GW are now in a catch 22 situation, the B&M stores give them an isolated environment so they can price things as high as they dare.
But the stores cost so much they barley make a profit on the massive mark up!

And with the advent of the internet availablity to the masses, alternative supliers to the GW B&M stores are easily found.

Value for money is subjective, and some folk are happy to part with the sums of money GW want for thier products.

But as prices go up, this pool of potential purchasers shrinks exponetialy!

As the recent AoBR boxed sets seem to indicate.Lower mark up and higher volume might be a more benificial approach for GW?

If you want to play a great game that wont cost you too much.
Down load the Full Thrust rules from GZG, and buy the 12 space ships from EM4 minatures for £2.50.(Complete game for less than the cost of 2 pots of GW paint!)

Any how , I suggest looking around , there are plenty of alternatives to GW .(Rules and minatures.)

Pay you money and make you choice.

Happy gaming .
Lanrak.

Anyone else notice how cheap the new Chaos Knights are? Wonder if we can see more kits appearing considerably cheaper than the rest

Im mostly impressed by the new fantasy Chosen units are.. 5 models in the box. 30$ for 5, now thats impressive.

Squig101 wrote:John, your profile says you started war gaming in 1980, this means you must be at least 30+ years old. You will have a job, so you will have far more disposable income than say, an 18 year old student such as Darth, who doesn't have a job because he is busy studying. I am in the same position. How can you expect a person in this situation to "just leave it".

It is a hobby we enjoy. We shouldn't have to stop playing because GW are set on making huge profit.

It is unfair that GW charge almost extortionate prices and get away with it because they dominate the market.
And besides, how can you compare a care to some plastic/metal figurines anyway. It doesn't make any sense.
I might as well just say "Well, GW might be pricey but hey, a 6 bedroom mansion makes war hammer look like a piece of "

PS: White Dwarfe is awful, you pay £4.50 for something that is just an advertisement with the occasional battle report or painting feature thrown in for good measure. Even these features constantly bang on about the latest product.

You are correct, that I'm older with more disposable income than what I had in college. *Far* more than back in my college days. Back then I was playing much cheaper games, although the games were also priced cheaper. I did a lot more club board gaming, as a single board game would last years, for a single one-time up-front cost.

I make enough money that I can have somewhat expensive hobbies. I'm not ashamed of that. There is *NO* way on earth that I could have started them while I was still in school. So I had to wait before I bought.

But the idea that one needs to spend $600 USD on GW to get into the hobby isn't right. I can get a full 1500+ pt SM/Ork army, with rules for less than $250 based on AoBR and Battleforces. Codex is $25. Glue and supplies might run $50 if you know what you're doing.

If you can't afford to buy, then you either find a cheaper way to buy, or you stop buying. But the nice thing about 40k is that minis last nearly forever. That $400 (or whatever) spent can last 4 or more years of gaming, until the next edition. So in that context $100/year isn't much at all.

I also don't think GW pricing is out of line. Last time I checked, GW was cheaper than Privateer Press or Rackham.

Also, I don't buy WD at all (anymore). It's not worth it (to me).

But as always, you need to decide for yourself. Complaining about prices won't do anything for you.

I'm glad you have taken a more understandable stance on the problem.

But you havnt really adressed the question, why does GW charge £7 for each immortal?

Darth wrote:I'm glad you have taken a more understandable stance on the problem.

But you havnt really adressed the question, why does GW charge £7 for each immortal?

For the same reason (almost)everyone prices things: People will pay it.

Why do good paintball markers and airsoft guns cost upwards of $600-$1000+?

Squig101 wrote:A piece of metal that costs £5 (a necron immortal for eg) is frankly, a joke. GW are just ripping people off and its extremely unfair.

Yeah, GW is ripping people off.
The Immortal blister just comes with a torso and a single limb; you have to buy three other ones to actually get an Immortal. And scratchbuild the head. :S

(Also, there are quite a few things made of metal that cost more than £5.)

Hey, yeah! My wedding band cost like $350!

People have been complaining about GW's prices at LEAST since I got into the hobby (maybe about 15 years ago). They've always been a bit on the expensive side. Back in those days, I was fortunate enough to make a pile of money selling Magic cards, and could finance my GW gaming.

Nowadays, a lot of GW's competitors are comparably-priced.

I only spend $5 per week on discretionary stuff, of which GW is only a percentage. Just budget your money. You don't need a perfect army right away. Just build toward it gradually. The game is still loads of fun, even with an "ideal build."

And no, I don't think that GW is ripping anyone off. They give you what they say, for the amount they say. You have to decide if you want it. If you don't want it, feel free to buy those kit-kats or whatever it is that you prefer.

I must admit that I don't rally understand why GW price their plstic models at such a premium as they do. Their metal prices, I dislike, but understand why they cost so much, but plastics... not so much.

The reason I say that is because comparitively speaking, as other posters have said, here and elsewhere, the marginal cost of plastic models is miniscule - the vast majority of plastic costs is in the design/mold costs. And at the point models are sold, these are already sunk. So If they sold 100 units or 100,000 of a particular mold, the total COSTS to GW are not hugely different.

So, being mass-produced, low-cost goods it would seem to me the sensible thing to do would be to price them at a level that people could afford to buy a lot of them. Reduce the margin of them and sell more - that way GW would (I would think) benefit tremendously by undercuttin the competition by a massive amount, by eliminating the "sticker shock" (£18 for 10 tiny plastic models that you have to assemble and paint yourself makes NO sense whatsoever to someone new to the hobby) and by making the game accessible to a wider audience who are currently put off by the price of an army.

Somehow GW really doesn't believe that is how their market works, and presumably they have the market data to back that up (or probably not, having spoken to a couple of ex-regional managers I have spoken to - in who's opinion the marketing department responsible for price-setting are "fething-idiots" - their words not mine...)

Personally I think that GW should capitalise on their marginal advantage - which is the ability to produce wargaming figures cheaper and in larger quantities than anyone else.

Shoot, if the Perry twins can sell boxes of 42 Napoleonic models at £15 (http://www.perry-miniatures.com/index2.html), and Warlord games (run by Paul Sawyer, former WD editor and former Head of European Sales (or some title like that, I forget now) can sell 20 plastic Romans at £17 (http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/plastic-imperial-roman-legionaries-boxed-set-80-p.asp) why can't GW?

Now its no coincidence that the Perry Brothers and Warlord Games are so closely linked to GW - yet they see the massive marketing potential of plastic in allowing access to large armies. The question is, why do GW persist in following the same, outdated, pricing model? Stubborness? Idiocy? Bad market data? They know something we don't know?

You pays yer money and takes yer choice. But it sure makes no business sense to me.

EDIT: I just found another site offering an even better deal on plastic models! 52 (Fifty-two!!!!!) Napoleonics for £19.95!! (http://www.victrixlimited.co.uk/). Did someone mention "fantasy tax"?

I see your coming from more now john, however, for ork(such as myself) players the battle force is awful

GW price the models as high as they can.

thehod wrote:£200 is like 302 Double-Stacks at Wendys or 302 Double Cheeze Burgers at McDonalds.

or 1510 wendy's nuggets.

i don't care who you are. that's a lot of nuggets. i belt they sculpt well enough to make them look like humanoid objects... stick them in the little tubs of bbq sauce and you have a base. play friendly games that don't require wysiwyg, and if you take your nuggets to a tourney... they are already painted and based.

or a little mix and match? what? that doublestack is a rhino? no wai! 10 nuggets inside?! and that frosty is a drop pod with a junior bacon cheeseburger venerable dreadnought?

sign me up.


high five.

As long as I get good milage out of my purposes, I'm non too fussed.

And since on Saturday I get my Battle Board, I'll get even more games in than current. Sure, it's a hefty outlay, but *I* think it's worth it. You may not of course, but then it's all personal opinion and choice.

Compare GW Games (and indeed, Hobby games in general) to other time intensive Hobbies, and it is actually very well priced.

Osbad wrote:
Somehow GW really doesn't believe that is how their market works, and presumably they have the market data to back that up (or probably not, having spoken to a couple of ex-regional managers I have spoken to - in who's opinion the marketing department responsible for price-setting are "fething-idiots" - their words not mine...)

Personally I think that GW should capitalise on their marginal advantage - which is the ability to produce wargaming figures cheaper and in larger quantities than anyone else.

Now its no coincidence that the Perry Brothers and Warlord Games are so closely linked to GW - yet they see the massive marketing potential of plastic in allowing access to large armies. The question is, why do GW persist in following the same, outdated, pricing model? Stubborness? Idiocy? Bad market data? They know something we don't know?

You pays yer money and takes yer choice. But it sure makes no business sense to me.

It may be that there is some sort of ceiling on the market; only so many people will play Warhammer no matter how cheap it is. It is a rather niche product, you have to admit. GW's pricing may be based on the assumption that "The Hobby" can't grow indefinitely, and priced their models at the most profitable level given the size of their target audience.

On the other hand, they may have a dart board in the accounting office. Maybe one dart board for boxed sets, and one for blister packs. Or something. "Bullseye! Terminators cost $50!"

You never know!

When I was a Staffer, I used to sell it to people as a hobby and an investment of time. Sure, some Parents were a little surprised at the prices, but once they saw all it involved, the vast majority were more than happy to let their child give it a whirl.

The support offered by a GW store goes a long way to mitigating the initial start up costs. Of course, if you have no local store, then thats a largely moot point to make, but I thought I'd make it anyways!

"if the Perry twins can sell boxes of 42 Napoleonic models at £15 (http://www.perry-miniatures.com/index2.html) "

Well if you wanted to recreate waterloo you'd need 72,000 of them so i'm not sure thats so cheap

If you can't afford to buy, then you either find a cheaper way to buy, or you stop buying. But the nice thing about 40k is that minis last nearly forever. That $400 (or whatever) spent can last 4 or more years of gaming, until the next edition. So in that context $100/year isn't much at all.

The unfortunate thing about that though is that who cares if it lasts forever. No one is going to want to play you and your gorka morka orks with your third edition codex. You have to invest money to keep giving those hunks of metal and plastic a purpose. That cost of upkeep is something most other forms of expenditure don't have.

Metal lawn ornamentation lasts forever too, so does good jewelry. A lot of things last forever. Metal toy solider armies are not a longlasting durable good, they are a luxury hobby good that happens to be made of metal. If games workshop prices someone out of the hobby they don't keep the army and continue to play, they sell it and move on to something else.

Hmmm... New army or 30 high quality glossy new porn mags...

Seriously, they are a business, they price what the market can bear. They have costs, as a public held company they are required by law to do their best to make a profit. If you don't like the game (or can't afford it) the find another hobby.

EDIT: And I still have super old plaguebearers (3rd edition fantasy I think?) in my nurgle daemons - so depending on what you go with you can keep using old models. Even some of the crap ones can look good with a bit of paint, green stuff, and elbow grease.

Somnicide wrote:Hmmm... New army or 30 high quality glossy new porn mags...

Seriously, they are a business, they price what the market can bear. They have costs, as a public held company they are required by law to do their best to make a profit. If you don't like the game (or can't afford it) the find another hobby.

Well part of the argument is what can the market bear? They aren't exactly doing stellar as a company right now, and raising prices in a time of economic loss isn't exactly a wise decision in many regards.

Then if they don't, then they reprice or fail. Pretty straightforward ;-)