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I think that the Batman Franchise is entirely out of villains that can be completely realistically portrayed. That is entirely too bad, because that's exactly the point behind Nolan's series. You have to suspend your disbelief, but only a little bit. Everything could happen. Almost. And everything that couldn't is only due to high technology.

It's really too bad that they wasted Two Face's potential like that. He could've fit into a whole other movie. Scarecrow was an amazing, obscure choice for the first movie, Raz Al-Ghul was at least fitting, and nothing will ever top Ledger's perfomance as The Joker.

There are certain Batman villains that could never work. Killer Croc, Man-bat, Clayface, and basically any other anthromorphic freak of nature come to mind. Mr. Freeze is just a little too cheesy for Nolan's world. And I couldn't see The Riddler working out all that well (Though it would be interesting to see what Depp could come up with).

I do think that Helena Bonham-Carter (Fight Club, Sweeney Todd) would make an excellent and believable Harley Quinn, though without Ledger's Joker, it would fall flat.

Platuan4th wroteWell, there's always Maxie Zeus and Firefly to play up the tech villains, also.

Zeus is waaayyy too over-the-top for Nolan's Batman.

One could argue they should come up with a completely new villain, or just stop before it gets lame.

Let's be honest, this is what we all want to see:

Hot babe
Tight and/or skimpy costume

Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Batgirl, new villian - who cares?

Frazzled wrote:One could argue they should come up with a completely new villain, or just stop before it gets lame.

that is a decent idea, however many fans out there would be appalled by the thought. Also, one must consider that if each of the nolan batman films all have a distinct moral message, or moral theme to the hero/villain relationship... what sort of theme should be next, and how "original" an enemy can you create?? i kinda see them doing a staple villain, such as harley, or hatter, or deadshot, or anyone else really.. but completely changing some major aspect of them as never really seen before in the books and previous works. perhaps harley quin was merely an "innocent bystander" to a joker crime, and rather than be completely debilitated by the traumatic experience, something snaps, and she tries to take up His cause?? really, the only thing you would really need to introduce her, is a flashback to perhaps the bank scene....and the clown masks, so this way, you know it was a Joker attack, but you dont need to see joker.


really, nolan has already made some major changes to the way many people think about previous characters... i mean, leading up to the release of dark knight, every one i know was supremely sceptical about ledger playing joker... perhaps there could be a similar result by using another villain, with another gifted actor...

yeah,
I'd like to see hush or one of the clayface... probably clayface#3... or a poison ivy...
the only problem with hush, is that he's no where to be seen in the yound bruce wayne scenes.
Clayface#3 could be given a cool spin with bio terrorism... but his problem is he's tied into the clayface storyline with clayface 1,2,3,4 & 5

If they do a staple villan, I agree the Penguin fits into the 'Bringing down the mob, cleaning the streets' story that nolan has going.
But I think the riddler is probably the best option. and disagree with the notion that the riddler is a poor mans joker... that's just stupid. With the darker gotham bat world that nolan is creating, a twisted mind like the riddlers could be made more dark and perverted... If they steer him away from joker crazy, and more toward smart crazy!
I was chatting about this with my brother a few days ago and we both thought/agreed that Jim Carry might be a good choice of actor, giving him a second crack at it, to atone for his sins!

Panic...

Buscemi as the riddler

focusedfire wrote:Buscemi as the riddler

Yes!!!, I could definatly see Buscemi as a dark,driven,psychotic Riddler,IMO he would be a much better choice than Depp any day.

Jessica Alba as.... who cares just toss her in.

The problem with Mr. Freeze is getting his ice abilities to seem like a legitimate weapon and not just a gimmick.

The Riddler isn't a watered down version of the Joker, but he's still too similar, in my opinion, to be the main villain.
How is the Riddler going to top Heath in the crazy nihilist department? The Joker already had plenty of intricate plans as well.

I think the Riddler would be better as a side villain; maybe have him playing both sides, giving both sides clues through the riddles.

Hell, I think it'd be cool if he wasn't even in it. Just the riddles themselves. It would be in sharp contrast to the hands on approach of the Joker.

The two main villains have so far been:
Cruel vigilante who thinks his justice is the only way.
Nihilistic psychopath who only wants to see destruction.

Side villains have been:
Mob boss who loves his power.
Crazy psychiatrist who loves causing fear.
Good person driven completely insane.

The next villains have to be different from these.

I really think that there are still a few Plausable villians to consider:
-Harliquin [she falls in love with the joker while hes in arkum asylem, and joins him]
-Catwomen
-The Riddler
-Kiler-Moth [ i dont know much about him but he takes the form of a man wearing a moth suit with gadgets like batman]
-Pengiun
-The Mad-Hatter, like the Riddler/Joker but takes after the alice in woderland mad hatter
-Posion Ivy

In hindsight it's actualy a shame that Two-Face played such a large part in the Dark knight,would have been much better to have left Dent Deformed and hospitalized at the end of Dark Knight,then have Two-Face as the main villian in the next movie.

Dent could still be alive (knocked out) ... i mean batman also fell from that hight and he was able to run away ok

Echo ... double post

How about Paul Giamatti or Billy Crystal as penguin.


Little factoid: Robin williams was originally up for the part of Joker in Tim Burtons version.


HHMMM Robin Williams as Penguin?

A few more ideas...

I think that Bane could fit into the hyper-realism of Nolan's world, if they humanized him a little bit (and got rid of his Spawn-meets-Wrestling costume). I'm sure that they could get the audience to be more sympathetic to Bane if, say, he was a soldier experiencing negative side-effects from an experimental Wayne Enterprises combat drug, out for revenge on Bruce Wayne himself (Perhaps after spending time court martialed for some reason). Sure, it's not extremely realistic, per se, but Nolan's gonna have to branch out somehow (he's basically out of totally real options), and I think Bane's the best candidate. Since he's not exactly a well-known character, he'd probably have to be a side-villain to appease the masses. Nolan could probably throw everyone off by casting Michael Clarke Duncan (The Green Mile) in this role, as he would need to be someone absolutely massive, and I think that would be a pleasant surprise to most people.

Wrath could probably work well. It would be a throwback to how everyone was dressing up as Batman in the Dark Knight, but with opposite intent. Perhaps he would have some reason to give Batman a bad name, and so he goes around murdering police officers disguised as him. The whole arc of Gordon killing his parents would probably be interesting as well. Though I don't like Wrath for a new movie nearly as well as I would like to see Bane (The whole bizzaro-batman feel he has going on is kind of strange), he could still probably work out better than half of the other batman villains.

I like Orkeosaurus' idea of not even being able to see the Riddler within a movie. That would make for quite the awesome villain.

I really think the best two for the next movie would be the penguin and catwomen, as they are both dark characters and have realistic back stories that can be toned up or down depending on the mood of the film

yeah,
I think it will have to be a main well know character to sell the movie... and prevent fail...
I thought they jumped to the joker to quick they should have saved him for later.. do a few more b list (scarecrow level) characters first?
the general public will just be left wondering who the hell is bane is? after he's fought the joker, why isn't it the penguin or the riddler bothering batman next?

Would it be unreasonable to cast another actor as the joker? explain his changed appearance with a toxic spill accident/ hits himself in the face with some acid...
or have bit parts of him with a mask on.

Orkeosaurus wrote:I think the Riddler would be better as a side villain... Hell, I think it'd be cool if he wasn't even in it. Just the riddles themselves....

that's just the plot of phone booth isn't it...

Tri wrote:Dent could still be alive (knocked out) ... i mean batman also fell from that hight and he was able to run away ok

They have a memorial for him at the end... he'd dead.

Chrysaor686 wrote:Nolan could probably throw everyone off by casting Michael Clarke Duncan (The Green Mile) in this role...

that won't work he's the King Pin (in dare devil)... maybe in the future there will be scope for dc marvel cross over movies...

Panic...

Panic wrote:yeah,
I think it will have to be a main well know character to sell the movie... and prevent fail...

I hardly think this is true. The third movie in a trilogy nearly always sells well if the second movie was good, and The Dark Night was a huge success.

How many people knew who Scarecrow was before Batman Begins?
Bane was known way better than Ra's al Ghul was. Batman Begins was still a huge success.

the general public will just be left wondering who the hell is bane is? after he's fought the joker, why isn't it the penguin or the riddler bothering batman next?

There would be something leading up to Bane's appearance. It wouldn't be him just walking up and going "I'm Bane!" "Oh it's Bane! Let's fight him!"

Orkeosaurus wrote:I think the Riddler would be better as a side villain... Hell, I think it'd be cool if he wasn't even in it. Just the riddles themselves....

that's just the plot of phone booth isn't it...

It's used in a lot of things, just like 'vigilante that takes things too far' and 'nihilistic psychopath who only wants destruction' are.

Besides, this wouldn't be the focus of the movie.

Squig_herder wrote:I really think the best two for the next movie would be the penguin and catwomen, as they are both dark characters and have realistic back stories that can be toned up or down depending on the mood of the film

i dont think you could legitimately do penguin and catwoman in the same film, as there would likely be law suits following as it was the EXACT villain duo used in batman returns.

there alot of ways you can introduce some of the staple characters in the batman realm, poison ivy could have been fired from Wayne Ent. for her biological weapons projects that werent authorized or something...


hehe... for a seriously twisted and sick plot twist...have Lucius Fox "defect" and become a master criminal

There were 3 clayfaces? I only know of one. Then again, most of my Batman knowledge comes from the animated series.

Carrey was great as Riddler, but the plot was horrible, as were most of his costumes. The classic pyjama with the hat worked best in Forever, but I can't think of something that would work in the Nolan-verse. On the other hand, nobody thought that a Clown in a purple coat would work

Movies on that scale can't live without a female lead, so either they give Ramirez a bigger role or use Catwoman. Which I still think could work if done right.
To quote Batman TAS:

Catwoman: "You can't denie that there's something between us."
Batman: "Yes, and I'm afraid it's the law."

Well, look at how the Joker was portrayed.

In the comics and previously, he's been darkly comical, fond of daft things like exploding Jack In the Box etc. Then Nolan had him just utterly bonkers, living in a world of his own where he just didn't seem to really consider the consequences.

So, Penguin as the Mob Boss could well work. Just have him dressed dapperly, with a kind of Penguin 'wark wark wark' laugh and leave it at that.

The third movie needs more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catman_(comics)

...what?

Well, Nolan killed off my choice (Two-Face), although I'd be OK with a Zodiac-styled Riddler.

since many folks around here seem to like the idea of riddler, but only if he should take on a more methodical, cold thinking logical killer type persona, he would probably need to be well dressed... in a black or other very dark colored suit, with dark green highlights, whether thats a forest green shirt, or a dark green vest.... perhaps he uses a cane (in the 19th century manner...not in a crippled, invalid kind of way) that is topped with an enigmatic topper?

i really dont want to see another jim carrey-esque riddler performance, with neon green sequined jump suits, and question marks everywhere....


if they did Penguin...they should use Al Pacino

Ensis Ferrae wrote:since many folks around here seem to like the idea of riddler, but only if he should take on a more methodical, cold thinking logical killer type persona, he would probably need to be well dressed... in a black or other very dark colored suit, with dark green highlights, whether thats a forest green shirt, or a dark green vest.... perhaps he uses a cane (in the 19th century manner...not in a crippled, invalid kind of way) that is topped with an enigmatic topper?

i really dont want to see another jim carrey-esque riddler performance, with neon green sequined jump suits, and question marks everywhere....

Oh sure - like in this fan-made movie poster - http://www.flickfilosopher.com/flickfilos/art/tennantriddler.jpg

Maybe a few discreet "?"s here and there for the thickies in the audience.

Pacino as penguin? Could work."WHO'S WITH ME, HOO-Waa Waa Waa"(Scent of a woman mixed with the penguin)

Still like my idea of Gaul Giamatti as penguin.

Depp is good enough to be riddler. I just would like to see what Buscemi could do with a DC villian role.

I feel the same way about Billy Crystal. I know he doesn't do a lot of acting anymore but his subtle & smooth delivery would make for an interesting villian if used for the right role.(Also, He's not afraid of prothsetic make-up.)

Gitkikka wrote:

Ensis Ferrae wrote:since many folks around here seem to like the idea of riddler, but only if he should take on a more methodical, cold thinking logical killer type persona, he would probably need to be well dressed... in a black or other very dark colored suit, with dark green highlights, whether thats a forest green shirt, or a dark green vest.... perhaps he uses a cane (in the 19th century manner...not in a crippled, invalid kind of way) that is topped with an enigmatic topper?

i really dont want to see another jim carrey-esque riddler performance, with neon green sequined jump suits, and question marks everywhere....

Oh sure - like in this fan-made movie poster - http://www.flickfilosopher.com/flickfilos/art/tennantriddler.jpg

Maybe a few discreet "?"s here and there for the thickies in the audience.

ohh sure, maybe even MORE discreet than that...and NOT that bloke they got in a suit for that pic.... he would NOT make a very good riddler. he'd need a more cold, calculating look... like an Edward norton, or Kevin Spacey.

Marvel has Norton, But spacey would be good if they didn't take him over the top.

The Riddler in my opinion would be best as a reclusive sort of mastermind who engineers situations which can only be defused by solving his riddles, a brilliant, driven delusional type who is a total mystery as to his identity, so much that even Batman never actually figures out who he is. Make everything about him mysterious but plant really subtle clues to his identity throughout the movie. Also, I do believe that there is someone else out there who could play the Joker, and he wouldn't have to mimic Heath Ledger's performance. After all, his next appearance would be after being locked up in Arkham for awhile, and that is sure to change him.

My vote is for King Tut and/or Shame.