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Shummy's on the money here. Beastmen and Penal Legionnaire Suicide Bombers are a thing of the past. People clamouring for them to return is akin to people wondering if the next Marine Codex will bring Marine Jetbikes back... or the next Guard Codex bringing Guard Land Speeders back.

It ain't happening. Some things just grow old and get replaced with shiny new model kits.

BYE

BrookM wrote:
Nay, the big difference being that the support Sentinels will either have missile launchers or rocket launchers most likely, giving people craving for light infantry armies more fitting indirect fire support other than mortars or that stray Basilisk.

Missile and Rocket Sentinels would be awesome. I'd buy them for a dollar.

If you really want beastmen go play traitor guard, Imperial Armour 6 has a nice list with nasty beastmen in it as an option.

My worry right now is mostly for modeling purposes and the heavy weapon squads. I heard a rumor that they were thinking of bumping Heavy Weapon squads up to 10 men. If they do, I'm going to have to secure some more praetorian lasgun troopers, which aren't easy to find. I'd like to know if I should buy up a bunch of them, or if that's a false rumor. I suppose I could buy them, and turn them into more infantry squads if the rumor doesn't pan out, but with 13 full infantry squads (plus 4 tallarn and 50 catachan plastic conscripts), I'm not sure I really need more squads...

H.B.M.C. wrote:Shummy's on the money here. Beastmen and Penal Legionnaire Suicide Bombers are a thing of the past. People clamouring for them to return is akin to people wondering if the next Marine Codex will bring Marine Jetbikes back... or the next Guard Codex bringing Guard Land Speeders back.

They published doctrines for beastmen for use with the current IG Codex in White Dwarf. Just sayin'...

As far as fluff goes, I bet they could solve that problem pretty easily... by cutting and pasting the fluff from the old RT material.

by cutting and pasting the fluff from the old RT material.

Which wouldn't stand up very well.

They published doctrines for beastmen for use with the current IG Codex in White Dwarf. Just sayin'...

Were they ever/are they legal?

redstripe wrote:Missile and Rocket Sentinels would be awesome. I'd buy them for a dollar.

I'd bet GW will charge you a bit more than that...
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Polonius wrote:My worry right now is mostly for modeling purposes and the heavy weapon squads. I heard a rumor that they were thinking of bumping Heavy Weapon squads up to 10 men. If they do, I'm going to have to secure some more praetorian lasgun troopers, which aren't easy to find. I'd like to know if I should buy up a bunch of them, or if that's a false rumor.

I suppose I could buy them, and turn them into more infantry squads if the rumor doesn't pan out, but with 13 full infantry squads (plus 4 tallarn and 50 catachan plastic conscripts), I'm not sure I really need more squads...

I don't recall any rumor that SWS / HWS will go to 10 men. I suspect IG HWS (and SWS) will stay at 6 men. The big problem with going to 10 men is that it really requires a totally new HWS box and possibly more sprue for the extra 4 guys.

That said, 200 Guardsmen are probably enough.

Though I must confess that I'm sorely tempted to get another squad of Tallarns or metal Cadians just to round things out with more Veterans and such... But I'm really planning to wait for the Codex before buying any more Infantry. Besides, I'd have to reconfigure 2 or 3 figure cases to properly store and transport the additional models.
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ShumaGorath wrote:

by cutting and pasting the fluff from the old RT material.

Which wouldn't stand up very well.

Yeah, because cutting and pasting the old Fluff never works for GW...

ShumaGorath wrote:

They published doctrines for beastmen for use with the current IG Codex in White Dwarf. Just sayin'...

Were they ever/are they legal?

Worst case, they count as Kroot Mercenaries which were Chapter Approved / fully legal back in 3E.

Doesn't really require a new sprue.

Heavy Weapon Squad box would be three HW sprues, three HW crew sprues (total 6 guys) plus a single Cadian sprue (4 guys). That's 10.

BYE

ShumaGorath wrote:Guard beastmen are unfluffy and stupid. They go directly against the current fluff of the game. The only reason they ever existed was because of a limited and bad old model range that also saw tyranid warriors using bolters and space marines using shurikan catapults. They should never see the light of day again.

Speaking of beastmen, does anyone have a picture of them?

ShumaGorath wrote:

by cutting and pasting the fluff from the old RT material.

Which wouldn't stand up very well.

Which you obviously haven't even read so you don't even know what you're talking about...

They published doctrines for beastmen for use with the current IG Codex in White Dwarf. Just sayin'...

Were they ever/are they legal?

I think that they were Chapter Approved back in 3rd edition, but I don't really feel like digging up the White Dwarf at this time.

It was the abhuman one right? I don't remember there being an Abhuman Doctrine for Beastman.

BYE

I can't remember there being beastmen in the Abhuman issue. I'd dig the relevant issue up to check but GW did away with their WD archives on their site, making it quite a task to sift through all those issues..

U.S. White Dwarf #302 (March '05) page 68. New Skills and Drills doctrine: Beasts (aka, Homo Sapiens Variatus). For +30 points a Conscript Platoon gains +1 WS and the Furious Charge ability.

I find these rumours very possible. But they are talking about heavyer sentinels, do they not refer to support sentinels (Imperial armour 3) with missile launchers?

I don't own any sentinels, I won't unless they improve them better than just giving them new weapons. An extra point of armor maybe, or maybe make em like biovores & zoanthropes where you can take up to 3, but they don't have to stay together. I used to love taking warwalkers with my old eldar army but they were so fragile they rarely did anything, they'd always be dead on the 2nd turn if not the 1st.

H.B.M.C. wrote:It was the abhuman one right? I don't remember there being an Abhuman Doctrine for Beastman.

You remember correctly the article in UK WD#303 (last White Dwarf I bought!) specifically stated that they were not beastmen. Beastmen were equal to Ratlings and Ogryns in RT and had acouple of cool models.

For the record the White Dwarf Abhuman doctrines were less than well balanced and not overly well thought out (much more so than the ones in the Codex).

Ratlings definately need new models and a new name wouldn't hurt either...

I for one hope the rumors of 10 man heavy weapons squads is true, it stinks for people with custom or rare models but in gaming terms it is needed. A 6 man squishy IG squad with overpriced heavy weapons is no kind of win.

I also hope that they bump SWS/HWS to 10 man squads.

With the current state of v5 (hard to limit LOS to fragile squads), 6man guard squads are extremely hard to keep alive. In addition, they also give up a KP.

Having a 10man squad for them would give them a little bit more survivability. It would also convince me to take SWS, as they would become better choices than Platoon Command squads (1 less KP and 5 more bodies).

I hope they bring back Tarantulas and Rapiers. Ratlings need a boost...hell..every elite slot needs a boost...and I shouldn't have to pay 25pts for a Lascannon in a 10 man squad...we should get free heavy bolters and ML's in our squads like marines do. That rule pisses me off.

Capt K

Which you obviously haven't even read so you don't even know what you're talking about...

Because wikipedia articles are so hard to read.

If you want beastmen backed by lasguns, play a renegade army.

Beastmen are NEVER going to happen. The same with squats. Current fluff places any mutants firmly in the Chaos camp...!

BoxANT wrote:I also hope that they bump SWS/HWS to 10 man squads.

With the current state of v5 (hard to limit LOS to fragile squads), 6man guard squads are extremely hard to keep alive. In addition, they also give up a KP.

Having a 10man squad for them would give them a little bit more survivability. It would also convince me to take SWS, as they would become better choices than Platoon Command squads (1 less KP and 5 more bodies).

you mention a guard squad and survivability in the same sentance? surely you jest. the only way guard special squads survive is by denying LOS which is harder to do in this edition. i'm hoping the wish/rumor of platoons instead of squads granting a VP is true (including for command platoons).

the_trooper wrote:If you want beastmen backed by lasguns, play a renegade army.

Except that the only current lists for renegades are the not legal lists in Imperial Armor, and the IG codex. Given that IG, for years in 4th edition have had legal beastmen with the abhumans doctrine, it's really not that ridiculous to think they've include them in the main rulebook. The fluff has long distinguished between stable abhumans like Ogryn, ratlings, beasts, etc. and the more chaotic instable mutants of the Lost and the Damned.

ArbitorIan wrote:Beastmen are NEVER going to happen. The same with squats. Current fluff places any mutants firmly in the Chaos camp...!

So we get all your psykers and navigators now? YAY! Good luck trying to beat us without warp travel. Evolution is Tzeentchs bitch!

Technically navigators aren't a mutation but a separate species all together.

warboss wrote:

BoxANT wrote:I also hope that they bump SWS/HWS to 10 man squads.

With the current state of v5 (hard to limit LOS to fragile squads), 6man guard squads are extremely hard to keep alive. In addition, they also give up a KP.

Having a 10man squad for them would give them a little bit more survivability. It would also convince me to take SWS, as they would become better choices than Platoon Command squads (1 less KP and 5 more bodies).

you mention a guard squad and survivability in the same sentance? surely you jest. the only way guard special squads survive is by denying LOS which is harder to do in this edition. i'm hoping the wish/rumor of platoons instead of squads granting a VP is true (including for command platoons).

So a 10 man squad doesn't have more survivability than a 6 man squad?

6 man squad...10 man squad...LOL. It doesn't matter. With all the "ignores cover" weapons out there now....6 guys...10 guys all die just as easily.

Capt K

Reecius wrote:I for one hope the rumors of 10 man heavy weapons squads is true, it stinks for people with custom or rare models but in gaming terms it is needed. A 6 man squishy IG squad with overpriced heavy weapons is no kind of win.

If they are priced fairly, and move to Troops as Scoring, they will be just fine. Not awesome, but fine.