Any hope for super heavies for other 40k armies?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**LunaHound**

Ghidorah wrote:Guys... Eldar have two Revenants already. Did you mean Phantoms?

Witch Hunters would just use the Titan Legions like the Guard do. Marines don't have any Titans.

Ghidorah

No, i want Revenant into plastic, same way bane blade varient went from resin into plastic.

Dont want Phantom, i have one, and even in apocolypse scale it takes up too much space.

**grizgrin**

WHOA. I've been living under a rock. Plastic t-bird and plastic WARHOUND are writing on the wall????

Can anyone SOURCE this, or is this just someones opinion??

**Ghidorah**

LunaHound wrote:No, i want Revenant into plastic, same way bane blade varient went from resin into plastic.

Ohhhhhh... Gotcha. I agree, plastic would be tits!

Ghidorah

**chaplaingrabthar**

Well, looking at the various Forge World Tau models,, the only super-heavy is the Manta and it's clearly far far too big to be practical, even in Apocalypse. Plus it's a flyer, so again likely a no.

**Agamemnon2**

chaplaingrabthar wrote:Well, looking at the various Forge World Tau models,, the only super-heavy is the Manta and it's clearly far far too big to be practical, even in Apocalypse. Plus it's a flyer, so again likely a no.

The Orca and the two Tigershark variants are all superheavy.

**grizgrin**

Yeah, Tau actually have some half-way decent support there.

**ZamboniKnight**

Ghidorah wrote:Witch Hunters would just use the Titan Legions like the Guard do. Marines don't have any Titans.
Ghidorah

Thank you! I was just getting ready to post something like this. Witch/Demon Hunters comandeer forces more than actually recruit/maintain them. They use whatever the IG will let them.

**Vaktathi**

Titans for any Imperial force are covered by the Warhound/Reaver/Warlord. Neither the Space Marines, Guard, Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters have their own titans, titans are the sole domain of the Adeptus Mechanicus, the closest thing is Guard leviathan ultraheavy command mobile forts.

Eldar already have Revenants, unless people wanted plastic versions. Do they have other types as well?

Orks are getting Stompas

Tau could get a giant massive Gundam type deal, but I don't think Titan type superheavy things are exactly the Tau's style either, they'll just shoot it from orbit or strafe it with Manta's and Tigersharks

Dark Eldar aren't exactly the types to use Titans.

Tyranids have Bio Titans and have several models from FW already

Chaos just use whatever the Imperials use

Daemons have their gigantic FW daemons

I think most everything is covered?

**ZamboniKnight**

Vaktathi wrote:I think most everything is covered?

Squat Land Train

**LunaHound**

I left out the plastic part in my first post lol.

Was hoping they would turn more FW stuff to plastic so i can afford some :"P

**Sidstyler**

Tau could get a giant massive Gundam type deal

God, no...

Plastic tigershark is a much better idea.

**LunaHound**

Sidstyler wrote:
Tau could get a giant massive Gundam type deal

God, no...

Plastic tigershark is a much better idea.

but... they all look the same -_- well similar... its boring

**chaplaingrabthar**

But Gundam Tau is even more boring and played out. I'd liek to see some of the Remora drone skimmers and Barracudas in plastic, but I know the demand isn't there so it's not going to happen.

**Kilkrazy**

If anyone wants to play Gundam Tau in Apoc they can buy a Gundam model and make a data sheet for it.

The Orca is an unarmed dropship.

**JohnHwangDD**

If someone wants to play Gundam Tau, they can just use the Warhound rules.

**Masaioh**

Stupid question, but how would it not be cost-effective to make some of the FW models in plastic? Are they hand-made or something? From what I see, GW models are strangely overpriced for no apparent reason other than game balance - ie mass HQ units costs way too much. Seriously, the baneblade is $95, but what is the plastic worth after being melted down?

**LunaHound**

Masaioh wrote:Stupid question, but how would it not be cost-effective to make some of the FW models in plastic? Are they hand-made or something? From what I see, GW models are strangely overpriced for no apparent reason other than game balance - ie mass HQ units costs way too much. Seriously, the baneblade is $95, but what is the plastic worth after being melted down?

Its not GW's fault for over pricing . They are a company, and do what companies does , which is making profit.

If the customers are willing to pay insane amount , GW will make the price insane.

If anything its the GW fan boy's fault for constantly justifying the high prices.

**ShumaGorath**

Masaioh wrote:Stupid question, but how would it not be cost-effective to make some of the FW models in plastic? Are they hand-made or something? From what I see, GW models are strangely overpriced for no apparent reason other than game balance - ie mass HQ units costs way too much. Seriously, the baneblade is $95, but what is the plastic worth after being melted down?

I hope you never look at how much it costs to mine diamonds vs how much they are actually sold for. Or for that matter how much a full software suite costs vs how much a few DVDs cost to make. Raw material costs are rarely what you are actually buying when you buy a product.

**dancingcricket**

Kilkrazy wrote:Titans were invented in the late 1980s when Battletech was a very successful game. GW wanted to compete, and produced Adeptus Titanicus.

They wanted it to be very grimdark and Imperial, so they thought up the Titan, a very tall legged vehicle more like a walking tower block than a battlesuit.

There are several problems with walking vehicles.

1. They fall over.
2. The taller a vehicle is, the easier it is to hit, because it is harder to get the range to the target than the azimuth.
3. Armouring a legged vehicle is more difficult than armouring a tank shaped vehicle.
4. Ground pressure means that legged vehicles will have terrible cross-country performance.

A battlesuit might make sense if it is light enough to move like a man, but can carry heavier weapons, and has good balance (because a person is inside can controls it with their natural sense of balance.) SM armour and terminator armour is like that. A Tau battlesuit is a larger version, with anti-grav assistance.

The thing is that technology like light, advanced composite armour, and anti-grav assistance, can be used much more effectively on a vehicle than a suit. So it only really makes sense to have suits of roughly man size. Much bigger than that and you are better off with a vehicle.

But battlesuits are cool.

You forgot
5. The square cube law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square-cube_law

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/square-cube-law.html

Titans really are rather impractical. Particularly when you realize that some modern weaponry has effective ranges much farther than your average tank can travel in a single day, and something like a titan is large enough to be quickly spotted via hidden scouts, recon planes or satelites, and their coordinates transmitted to something that can shoot the thing from over the horizon. The future of warfare isn't supersized monstrosities, it's things that are small enough to remain hidden, and fast enough to avoid incoming fire.

Oh, and I'd be ok with buying a Pylon or several if they weren't so expensive, or I had a lot more opportunity to use them. Same thing for Apocalypse only versions of C'tan, and Daemons. But either the cost needs to come down, or I need to find more apocalypse players. It's also the reason I'm hesitant to buy 9 soul grinders, the formation sounds neat, but most of the time I can't bring more than 3...

**JohnHwangDD**

Of course, in the far future of 40k, on may assume that the limited anti-grav technology that exists is used to mitigate the ground pressure issue (and presumably, the square-cube law).

That said, Titans are OK because they do have certain advantages over tracked vehicles when traversing very rough / uneven ground.

Besides, when has 40k ever been about realism?

**LunaHound**

I dont care about realism, i want cool looking models
that is FUN to play!!

Maybe im not suited for warhammer -_-

**Agamemnon2**

Kilkrazy wrote:The Orca is an unarmed dropship.

I seem to remember it had at least one weapon, but it's true, the usefulness of the Orca comes from being a superheavy flyer and as such fairly durable, and being able to deploy two dozen firewarriors, six battlesuits and eight drones at the same time.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

LunaHound wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:Tau fluff is that rather than building super-heavy vehicles or titans, they build big flying vehicles.

The problem with this is firstly scale. The Manta Ray done by Forge World is 25 inches by 34 inches! http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/TAU_AIRCRAFT.html

That means that many weapons in the game would have a problem shooting from one side of the vehicle to the other.

Secondly the cost and difficulty of making and building such large kits.

Thirdly, 40K has no proper air combat rules, and you would be stupid to build super flying machines and make them crawl around on the ground.

Therefore I think the fluff should be relaxed to give the Tau some kind of super-battle-suit smaller than a titan and more mobile.

I dunno who made the fluff but, if Tau had technology to make Crisis suits, wouldnt
it make more sense that they would be the ones most capable to make Titans ? Titan feels way more tech based then Tanks imo ,

GW is just lazy -_-

IS more the philosophy of War the Tau follow, one of tactical strikes. Hence why a parent Carrier bedecked with guns is more useful than a single, easily spotted, lumbering great lummox of a battlesuit.

**Masaioh**

"Titans really are rather impractical. Particularly when you realize that some modern weaponry has effective ranges much farther than your average tank can travel in a single day, and something like a titan is large enough to be quickly spotted via hidden scouts, recon planes or satelites, and their coordinates transmitted to something that can shoot the thing from over the horizon. The future of warfare isn't supersized monstrosities, it's things that are small enough to remain hidden, and fast enough to avoid incoming fire."

Bigger = more surface area = MOAR DAKKA

Plus they probably use advanced technology to render the laws of physics wholly obsolete, as has already been said.

**Kilkrazy**

If the laws of physics were obsolete the most efficient fighting vehicle would be something like a sea urchin.

**Illeix**

To hell with big stuff! give me a dozen Centaur assault carriers with conquerer cannons!

**Rolling Tunder Sucker**

After the new blood angels codex was releast i got it and in it there are rules for a smaller thunderhawk called a stormraven it can transport 10 guys + a drednought and can be armed with twinlinked assault cannons

It will be plastic theres your plastic thunderhawk

**BrookM**

NNNNNNNNNNECROOOOOOOOO.

**LunaHound**

Rolling Tunder Sucker wrote:After the new blood angels codex was releast i got it and in it there are rules for a smaller thunderhawk called a stormraven it can transport 10 guys + a drednought and can be armed with twinlinked assault cannons

It will be plastic theres your plastic thunderhawk

It could work as Valkyrie certainly is rather large ( but still not large enough to be considered a super heavy )

Trygon was a nice step , need Eldar Revenant Titan next :3

**RiTides**

Kilkrazy wrote:If the laws of physics were obsolete the most efficient fighting vehicle would be something like a sea urchin.

Win