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Frazzled wrote:1. Disciplined for not meeting sales. In the real world world if you are a salesman and don’t meet sales you are fired. Whats the problem again?

2. Facebook. Lesson learned now try not to be a moron next time.

Frazzled shoots and score!

Yeah I take the point that its a stupid thing to do on facebook but I still think sacking is harsh.

The diciplining for not hitting sales sucks though, when I was a staffer (back when all this was fields) you were expected to only encourage appropriate sales and actually advise customers when NOT to buy too.

Like I said in my OP, I dont wanna come across as part of the "Lets bitch about GW" brigade, I'm just saddened by this.

It's a business, not play time. What part of this isn't understood?

I can understand the facebook. I don't talk about my employer, or competitors for that matter on the intranets (for good or bad). In addition to available publicly, its just bad form.

sleazy wrote:Yeah I take the point that its a stupid thing to do on facebook but I still think sacking is harsh.

If you're willing to publicly bad-mouth your boss in a format that is able to be not just tracked back to you but easily done so, you need to be willing to accept the consequences. Being fired seems fair and is the standard fare for what he did. If you wouldn't say it to someone's face, don't post it on the internet.

Facebook is far from private. My nephew was posting pictures of him and his buddies consuming alcoholic beverages before they were of legal age. I think it took him about two years to realize how his mother was always aware of what was going on. My niece does similar nonsense.

My wife's old high school class has a facebook page or whatever you call it. Mine probably does too, but I'm too lazy to care.

Frazzled wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Wehrkind wrote:Frazzled has a bit of a point. Granted, it is probably a poor way to retain people and morale, but GW stores are retail, just like RadioShack or Barnes and Noble. The company probably isn't too concerned about keeping specific employees, so long as there are people to work the store.

I know this was something probably more specific to the B&N Store I worked at, but there were specific people there who could commit murder and not be fired whilst there were some extremely competent employees whom management couldn't wait to have slip up once so they could fire them because they didn't personally like the person. It was seriously run like a high school there.

Unfortunately thats common in all walks of life.

I should restate. At the risk of damaging my heartless persona I should add that sales employees should be both rewarded and punished. Meet goals-bonuses. Don't -eventual termination with extreme predjudice. Look, here's our manager of the week:

If your manager has a button in his office marked "HOT HAIL" make sure he gets the first slice of birthday cake.

Oh, and if you're stupid on the internet, it sucks to be you. But on the other hand, if you're a manager, expect to be disliked. You're not anyone's friend. You're their boss.

sleazy wrote:Yeah I take the point that its a stupid thing to do on facebook but I still think sacking is harsh.

The diciplining for not hitting sales sucks though, when I was a staffer (back when all this was fields) you were expected to only encourage appropriate sales and actually advise customers when NOT to buy too.

Like I said in my OP, I dont wanna come across as part of the "Lets bitch about GW" brigade, I'm just saddened by this.

Whether or not disciplining for not hitting sales sucks or not is irrelevant. I don't know if it sucks or not, that is why I'm not in sales, I wouldn't be good at it. The fact is that I don't think a sacking is harsh when you call your boss or any co-worker names. I would say it is harsh to call someone that. I know he probably wasn't expecting it because of the false sense of anonymity on the net, and that I feel sorry for, but that gets out these days

Yeah, I don't really see a problem here. Sure, it's harsh, but as others have pointed out, there's probably other reasons for the firing, this was just a great excuse.

"Right to work" generally means that you can't be forced to join a union to get a job, essentially meaning there can't be any closed shops.

"At will employment" is the legal status of being an employee that can quit or be fired at any time for any cause or no cause. There are some legal protections against being fired for discriminatory or retaliatory reasons, but it's totally legal to fire somebody for completely arbitrary and ridiculous reasons.

Trust me, if this guy was seen as valuable employee, they wouldn't have fired him. Being a great guy, and doing his job well, are different things. I've worked retail for different stores, and at one we were seen as incredibly knowledgeable, friendly, and easy to work with. At the other one, we made a ton of money by selling more product. Learning to produce what you're supposed to produce, no matter how silly it feels, is a big part of life.

Its also called right to work in Texas and other states in the South Polonius-fyi. The term can be used interchangeably in common vernacular in many locations.

Polonius wrote:Yeah, I don't really see a problem here. Sure, it's harsh, but as others have pointed out, there's probably other reasons for the firing, this was just a great excuse.

"Right to work" generally means that you can't be forced to join a union to get a job, essentially meaning there can't be any closed shops.

"At will employment" is the legal status of being an employee that can quit or be fired at any time for any cause or no cause. There are some legal protections against being fired for discriminatory or retaliatory reasons, but it's totally legal to fire somebody for completely arbitrary and ridiculous reasons.

Trust me, if this guy was seen as valuable employee, they wouldn't have fired him. Being a great guy, and doing his job well, are different things. I've worked retail for different stores, and at one we were seen as incredibly knowledgeable, friendly, and easy to work with. At the other one, we made a ton of money by selling more product. Learning to produce what you're supposed to produce, no matter how silly it feels, is a big part of life.

Sure, that's how it should be, but I've had jobs where total idiots were tolerated because they were friends with management. Anyone in such a position should really quit before their temper gets the best of them.

warpcrafter wrote:

Lanrak wrote:Hi all.
I suppose my experiance of diciplinary procedures may be different to other areas of employment.
(I work in manufacturing, engineering specificaly.)
The ONLY way an employee can be 'fired' (instant dismissal,) is for gross neglegance, or commiting an eligal act on premises.(Assault- theft etc.)
For less severe offences there is verbal -written -final warning procedures .

So for not meeting sales targets , a verbal warnings followed by written then a final warning would seem more fair than instant dismissal.IMO.

And thankfully on the shop floor, swearing is the norm, (its a great way to relive stress ,to shout abuse at offending objects.)And all name calling is done face to face (some times nose to nose,) and so is dealt with there and then.

STRESS
'... the confusion and tension wrought on the human body when the brain has to overide the basic desire to choke the living daylights out of some GIT that desperatley deserves it ! '

PS I thought a pregnant fish was spelt with a A not an I ?

TTFN
Lanrak.

P.S
Is it me or are the British blessed with lots more swear words than the Americans ?

I can second that whole thing about calling someone dirty words to their face as opposed to doing it behind their back. And twit with an A instead of an I is generally among Americans a word for a certain part of the female anatomy, and a really severe insult. It does seem that the British have more swear words than Americans, but so many of them don't seem so bad to us because we don't know what they mean. (EG: "Big girl's blouse" ((?))

Whatever you do, if you're in the UK and your daughter is misbehaving, don't threaten to paddle her fanny.

Exactly what "benefits" do GW employees get for hitting their marks, anyway? Does a gold star really count?

Unless I'm mistaken, you don't really "get" anything for doing well, but your ass will fly out the door faster than you can say "soup line" at the slightest wrong-doing. I really don't know how anyone can stand working in retail.

I feel his pain, apart from the facebook stuff. I have worked for GW, and yeah far worse goes on than you can imagine.

Frazzled wrote:Its also called right to work in Texas and other states in the South Polonius-fyi. The term can be used interchangeably in common vernacular in many locations.

Ok, I didn't know it used that way in common speech. They really are two separate legal doctrines through, and any serious conversation would do well to keep the concepts apart. I'm assuming most of the confusion arises from the fact that outside of professionals, really only union member enjoy any form of contractual protection from at will termination. In most Right to Work states, there is little union activity, and even if there was you wouldn't be forced into it. They'd be related, to be sure. Right to work as a concept dates back really only until 1947 (although it was founded on the ideological basis of Lochner and related legal doctrines) and was created by Federal statute (which allowed states to pass such laws) while the concept of at-will employment is an ancient part of common law. Under the statute of frauds, any contract over a year must be in writing, but contracts less than a year may be oral. In agricultural societies, most work contracts were for a year, but by 1877 it was pretty accepted that all employment is at will unless it can be proved by the employee that it was for a year.

I'm in with the "He deserved the firing" crowd. Not meeting sales goals shouldn't get you fired immediately, you should have a chance to recover.

Calling people names (even on the Internet) IS a firing offense, because that can actually be seen by a lot more people than if you just yelled at them in the store.

That is why I don't even have a Facebook account. I have a MySpace page that I look at every couple months, but that's it.

I'll have to say that if you want to destroy morale and any employee loyalty, definitely go the GW route outlined by the OP. GE yearly lays off the bottom 10 percent performers in their company, along with other crappy practices.
I guess it gets results, but, I've seen examples of companies in trust training and job relations classes that has as one of their priorities, to build up their employees.
These companies not only do well, but there's genuine employee involvement to improve the company and help as much as possible through Kaizen events, PDCA's, and other lean techniques.
GW's in the stone age if the OP's story is correct.

Well I do have to say that all this strikes me as abit silly as it obvious that there is more to these two stories than we're hearing here-

Both events could go either way- either its totally unreasonable and someone is being evil higher up in the company etc...
OR there has been a history of poor behavior or people not doing their jobs as well-

If anything, I find its more likely the second- more due to my experience with such matters- but at the end of the day, we simply won't know- so saying it was fair/unfair seems abit redundant

Given that GW is a bunch of game stores, laying off the bottom 10% is probably good practice to unload slackers.

dietrich wrote:Facebook is far from private. My nephew was posting pictures of him and his buddies consuming alcoholic beverages before they were of legal age. I think it took him about two years to realize how his mother was always aware of what was going on. My niece does similar nonsense.

Haha.
My cousins wonder why their mother always knows what they're up to, and a friend of mine is wondering why he was rejected from the college he wanted to go to.

Apparently they found out about underage drinking through myspace on both accounts.

People are so stupid when it comes to that crap.

ummm he was fired from a job at a GW store. Maybe the employee can use his free time to learn a trade or return to university.

I mistreat my staff all the time.

Should I read the original post?

malfred wrote:Should I read the original post?

No. As you were, Malf.

If you think it's bad at a retail store, you should see how the medical equipment/software industry is getting now. I can't name any names, but people are pushing REALLY hard right now, far more than a year ago. Some of them are really good people, too. (And some of them aren't worth the MRSA needle in the sharps box.)

GW is a business not a charity, GW stores are shops not a clubhouse.

Sure, if the reported facts are true (which they might not be, it is second hand onformation and internal company rumours are just that: rumours. The term "disciplinary action" may be being misinterpreted here - "remedial measures" may perhaps be more appropriate? I don't know.) then GW's middle management are being a bit arsey. But hey, it was ever thus with middle management in any large corporation. No big surprise.

GW have some very nice people as staff. They also have some prize morons. At all levels. Again, no big surprise.

It's why I treat GW like what it is - a vendor of objects I like to buy from time to time. Sometimes some people, some of them working for GW, others just fans of their product, like to pretend that GW is some sort of friendly uncle or something. Wrong. It's a business out to make a profit. It may provide interesting products and stores that have a certain ambience, but it is no more humane an organisation than MacDonalds or Tesco is. The company wants to make a profit, the staff want to get paid, and sometimes that involves trying to give customers a good time. Sometimes.

that's why I have no compunctions about buying second hand, or at the largest discount I can find. They aren't a charity. I owe them no favours for they have surely shown me none.

Well what can i say, human nature i think?
Its easier to point finger and fire some people
then admit the game might have trouble during the
economy crises?

I mean they cant assume there are new players comming in constantly, they usually come in groups ( brought in by friends ) So the managers or higher ups and such are shallow on this issue .

I don't know if there are any current UK GW employees who would like to weigh in here, but I was a GW manager for a while and we never had any sales targets.

Is this just a US thing or has the company changed the rules globally?


In any event, I would have cheerfully fired staff for any number of reasons, but failing to meet an arbitrary sales target is not one of them (especially if he was a good staffer who sold appropriately - i.e. No, little Johnny, you're only 8 years old and you've never built a kit before - put the £50 Mumak back and try this starter set with some Orcs, paint and a brush instead. Its only £12 so you've saved your mum some money!! <gets grateful mum look> ).
This kind of thing may cost the company money in the short term but is far more likely to generate long term sales growth and is much better practice than 'sell £500 worth of stuff this week or you're out the door'.

Slagging me off on facebook - that's different, however, and companies are increasingly cracking down on it.

Chimera_Calvin wrote:I don't know if there are any current UK GW employees who would like to weigh in here, but I was a GW manager for a while and we never had any sales targets.

Is this just a US thing or has the company changed the rules globally?


In any event, I would have cheerfully fired staff for any number of reasons, but failing to meet an arbitrary sales target is not one of them (especially if he was a good staffer who sold appropriately - i.e. No, little Johnny, you're only 8 years old and you've never built a kit before - put the £50 Mumak back and try this starter set with some Orcs, paint and a brush instead. Its only £12 so you've saved your mum some money!! <gets grateful mum look> ).
This kind of thing may cost the company money in the short term but is far more likely to generate long term sales growth and is much better practice than 'sell £500 worth of stuff this week or you're out the door'.

Slagging me off on facebook - that's different, however, and companies are increasingly cracking down on it.

That's also a way to "Get a little grateful mum" if you follow my meaning...

Note: I have never heard of these "sales goals" but i have a good mate at my favourite GW store and im happy to buy $100+ each month or so there to help him.

Now with the Facebook thing, the issue isnt that he thought it was private but this is the internet, a single "hurtful" word over it and he gets fired?? what about all the people at my school that say so much worse? are you saying because school is classed as a work environment they should be exspelled? no sense in it, and if there really was any concern then they should have look further into the matter.