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First up I wanna precede this rant by saying I usually defend GW and their staff from what seems like an unfair amount of flak. Other than White Dwarf and the bitz service I actually believe GW has made significant improvements in the last year or two both in quality and value.

Right, now thats out of the way please allow me to vent my spleen about a couple of related issues.

First up I just heard from a staffer that an entire store is facing diciplinary action because the store did not hit sales targets. Yes an official dicipline for each staff member due to lower than expected sales!

Surely thats not fair? Thats the kinda behaviour you expect from somewhere like Carphone Warehouse or a car dealership...next time GW staff are giving you the big sell you know why... their jobs depend on it

Second issue, a staffer at the other GW in my area was recently diciplined for the same reason - not enough sales and also not enough intro games. Now this guy is a brilliant staff member - keen to help you without being an eager puppy, there for both vets and noobs, one of the best hobbyists I've seen and a damn nice guy to boot. Dont get the wrong idea though, I dont know him outside of GW and I'm not one of those vets that lives in store and treats the staff like his posse.

The staffer in question, understandably aggreived at this called his manager a naughty word on Facebook (a pregnant fish as I understand). Now he didnt mention where he works or identify the manager by name but another employee reported this and he was sacked!

Is it just me or is that far too heavy handed? (just to clarify it wasnt the manager who sacked him, it was reported above him). Surely all this needed was a firm ticking off and the usual "you represent the company even outside of work" speech?

So there you have it, if this little lot is true, which admittedly can only be called "allegations", then GW has taken a serious turn for the worst.

Of course you could say none of this is my business and ask why I care? Maybe you'd have a point but it leaves a sour taste in my mouth, bullying management is a pet peeve of mine.

GW staff really do have a thankless job and it seems the company is making it harder.

Sorry for such a negative post, I really wanted to get that off my chest and I wonder if you guys think this is as appalling as I do.

There's a rude word for a pregnant fish?

Nurglitch wrote:There's a rude word for a pregnant fish?

Yes. It's Twit.

I thought of making this a one word answer, but that would've looked rude.

Well, in this economy I think that a disciplinary action due to sales is unreasonable, and I'd think they'd get further with rewards rather than penalties, but unfortunately, this is a growing problem in the professional world, and the fact is that it is the employees problem. Things that you put on social networking sites can come back to bite you in all sorts of ways, some of them professional. Even if you *know* you're putting your RL name on a social networking site, the 'net "feels" anonymous. The fact is though, that employers often check social networking sites, for the very reason that people put their guard down. And no one likes a gossip or someone that is going to call people names. I recently edited my social networking sites, not because I had anything I was ashamed of, but to make myself look more "proffessional looking", just in case.

Incidentally, how many password retrieval questions ask things like "where were you born" or "where did you go to high school". Isn't that a pretty common thing on social networking sites? Something to think about.

sleazy wrote:
The staffer in question, understandably aggreived at this called his manager a naughty word on Facebook (a pregnant fish as I understand). Now he didnt mention where he works or identify the manager by name but another employee reported this and he was sacked!

Is it just me or is that far too heavy handed? (just to clarify it wasnt the manager who sacked him, it was reported above him). Surely all this needed was a firm ticking off and the usual "you represent the company even outside of work" speech?

Whether this is fair or not, the ex-employee in question was a moron. The internet is not as anonymous as many believe, and his comments, even on 'his' facebook are statements made in public. It's really no different than calling your manager a name in the middle of the store. They're going to find out, you're going to get fired, and it's your own fault. I have no sympathy for that guy.

The other issues you raised - unless you talked to the store's management chain yourself, I wouldn't necessarily believe everything they say. I'm sure most retail jobs have target numbers and stores that don't meet those goals face changes.

Redbeard wrote:

sleazy wrote:
The staffer in question, understandably aggreived at this called his manager a naughty word on Facebook (a pregnant fish as I understand). Now he didnt mention where he works or identify the manager by name but another employee reported this and he was sacked!

Is it just me or is that far too heavy handed? (just to clarify it wasnt the manager who sacked him, it was reported above him). Surely all this needed was a firm ticking off and the usual "you represent the company even outside of work" speech?

Whether this is fair or not, the ex-employee in question was a moron. The internet is not as anonymous as many believe, and his comments, even on 'his' facebook are statements made in public. It's really no different than calling your manager a name in the middle of the store. They're going to find out, you're going to get fired, and it's your own fault. I have no sympathy for that guy.

The other issues you raised - unless you talked to the store's management chain yourself, I wouldn't necessarily believe everything they say. I'm sure most retail jobs have target numbers and stores that don't meet those goals face changes.

That is kind of how I feel, except I am sympathetic toward this, it is just that if you call people nasty names in public, they aren't going to want to hang on to you as an employee.

1. Disciplined for not meeting sales. In the real world world if you are a salesman and don’t meet sales you are fired. Whats the problem again?

2. Facebook. Lesson learned now try not to be a moron next time.

wow Frazzled, what a great humanitarian view.

sleazy wrote:wow Frazzled, what a great humanitarian view.

He's not a humanitarian, he's a cynical realist. You should see his political leaning posts in the OT section.

Frazzled has a bit of a point. Granted, it is probably a poor way to retain people and morale, but GW stores are retail, just like RadioShack or Barnes and Noble. The company probably isn't too concerned about keeping specific employees, so long as there are people to work the store.

On the FaceBook thing, it is a little surprising that he was fired, but again, it is retail, and more importantly, he was a male staffer saying vulgar things about being female in reference to a female. There are laws against the company not disciplining him for that, and it is often less disruptive to fire a line employee than have a cranky manager in the same store with him.

Now, I am not saying that I think calling your manager a naughty name outside of the store, and not directly to co-workers should be firing offense, but that's what people voted for, so now they have it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've called bosses worse than Twit before, and they richly deserved it. I never know it was a name for a pregnant fish, I always thought it generally meant somewhat dimwitted and ineffectual. Hmmm...

Remember, this is the same employer that dumped Dave Taylor, an excellent role model for the hobby.

If people don't met goals, bad things generally happen. Whether they are reasonable goals or not.

warp, ive called my CO alot worse XD
allthough, thats not really good enough grounds for me to be discharged from the army lol


1: hate to say it, but im with frazz on this one, its retail, targets need to be met.

2: frazz is somewhat heartless
should have been warned for it, but not fired, allthough FB is hardly the place to insult someone.

Frazzled wrote:1. Disciplined for not meeting sales. In the real world world if you are a salesman and don’t meet sales you are fired. Whats the problem again?

2. Facebook. Lesson learned now try not to be a moron next time.

They aren't in the charity business, but would rewards not be more effective than penalties? You know that whole point of catching more flies with honey than vinegar?

Unfortunately the facebook thing wraps it up. The company has to fire the guy now to save face. You can't go around saying things about people and not expect it to get back.

A lot of companies are shedding staff for strategic purposes, and using the recession as an excuse. If GW want to do the same, they will jump on a pretext for sacking someone.

Wehrkind wrote:Frazzled has a bit of a point. Granted, it is probably a poor way to retain people and morale, but GW stores are retail, just like RadioShack or Barnes and Noble. The company probably isn't too concerned about keeping specific employees, so long as there are people to work the store.

I know this was something probably more specific to the B&N Store I worked at, but there were specific people there who could commit murder and not be fired whilst there were some extremely competent employees whom management couldn't wait to have slip up once so they could fire them because they didn't personally like the person. It was seriously run like a high school there.

The worst part is you can't really complain to the "We Listen" that Corporate set up because they tell the GM "We got a complaint about you from someone at your store about X Incident/Occurrence/Attitude/Inappropriate disciplinary action", like closing the door when it's just one Manager and the employee in the room during a reprimand(Corporate Policy is at least 2 Managers so that one can watch over the other).

sleazy wrote:The staffer in question, understandably aggreived at this called his manager a naughty word on Facebook (a pregnant fish as I understand). Now he didnt mention where he works or identify the manager by name but another employee reported this and he was sacked!

Sounds fair to me.

Next!

If sales are falling, boot to arse is applied, and quite justifiably.

Caling you manager something rude publically, is also understandably a deeply, deeply stupid thing to do.

When you get to my age you will be realistic (or cynical) enough to know that sackings rarely happen because of genuine incompetence or real offences.

They happen because the person to be sacked made an enemy, or doesn't have enough friends to protect them when the axe needs to be swung by management.

I've seen it plenty of times in a number of companies.

Hi all.
I suppose my experiance of diciplinary procedures may be different to other areas of employment.
(I work in manufacturing, engineering specificaly.)
The ONLY way an employee can be 'fired' (instant dismissal,) is for gross neglegance, or commiting an eligal act on premises.(Assault- theft etc.)
For less severe offences there is verbal -written -final warning procedures .

So for not meeting sales targets , a verbal warnings followed by written then a final warning would seem more fair than instant dismissal.IMO.

And thankfully on the shop floor, swearing is the norm, (its a great way to relive stress ,to shout abuse at offending objects.)And all name calling is done face to face (some times nose to nose,) and so is dealt with there and then.

STRESS
'... the confusion and tension wrought on the human body when the brain has to overide the basic desire to choke the living daylights out of some GIT that desperatley deserves it ! '

PS I thought a pregnant fish was spelt with a A not an I ?

TTFN
Lanrak.

P.S
Is it me or are the British blessed with lots more swear words than the Americans ?

Platuan4th wrote:

Wehrkind wrote:Frazzled has a bit of a point. Granted, it is probably a poor way to retain people and morale, but GW stores are retail, just like RadioShack or Barnes and Noble. The company probably isn't too concerned about keeping specific employees, so long as there are people to work the store.

I know this was something probably more specific to the B&N Store I worked at, but there were specific people there who could commit murder and not be fired whilst there were some extremely competent employees whom management couldn't wait to have slip up once so they could fire them because they didn't personally like the person. It was seriously run like a high school there.

Unfortunately thats common in all walks of life.

I should restate. At the risk of damaging my heartless persona I should add that sales employees should be both rewarded and punished. Meet goals-bonuses. Don't -eventual termination with extreme predjudice. Look, here's our manager of the week:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Caling you manager something rude publically, is also understandably a deeply, deeply stupid thing to do.

Yup.

It's called "insubordination", and generally results in immediate disciplinary action by HR / Management if things are otherwise going well.

If not, guess who just volunteered to be first in line for payroll cost savings...

Lanrak wrote:Hi all.
I suppose my experiance of diciplinary procedures may be different to other areas of employment.
(I work in manufacturing, engineering specificaly.)
The ONLY way an employee can be 'fired' (instant dismissal,) is for gross neglegance, or commiting an eligal act on premises.(Assault- theft etc.)
For less severe offences there is verbal -written -final warning procedures .

So for not meeting sales targets , a verbal warnings followed by written then a final warning would seem more fair than instant dismissal.IMO.

And thankfully on the shop floor, swearing is the norm, (its a great way to relive stress ,to shout abuse at offending objects.)And all name calling is done face to face (some times nose to nose,) and so is dealt with there and then.

STRESS
'... the confusion and tension wrought on the human body when the brain has to overide the basic desire to choke the living daylights out of some GIT that desperatley deserves it ! '

PS I thought a pregnant fish was spelt with a A not an I ?

TTFN
Lanrak.

P.S
Is it me or are the British blessed with lots more swear words than the Americans ?

I can second that whole thing about calling someone dirty words to their face as opposed to doing it behind their back. And twit with an A instead of an I is generally among Americans a word for a certain part of the female anatomy, and a really severe insult. It does seem that the British have more swear words than Americans, but so many of them don't seem so bad to us because we don't know what they mean. (EG: "Big girl's blouse" ((?))

Lanrak wrote:I suppose my experiance of diciplinary procedures may be different to other areas of employment.
(I work in manufacturing, engineering specificaly.)
The ONLY way an employee can be 'fired' (instant dismissal,) is for gross neglegance, or commiting an eligal act on premises.(Assault- theft etc.)
For less severe offences there is verbal -written -final warning procedures .

In the US we have a basic concept called "right to work", meaning that you can leave at any time, for any reason, *and* you can be let go at any time, for any reason.

The reasons you list above are grounds for immediate termination, but people can be let go for insubordination and failure to meet sales targets, too.

In our defense Warpcrafter we also borrow words from lots of different languages.

Yes, a twit is mild. The other might get you: 1) severely beaten; 2) fired on the spot; 3) sued depending on if this is related to work.

Oh we do indeed!

Big Girls Blouse is an insult meaning you are somewhat less than manly.

Good With Colours, Puddle Jumper, Light on His Feet all cast the aspiration as to a gentlemans entirely private preference in partner...

The list goes on and on and on.

We also have the twit but spelt different word, though it is used far more jovially over here. It can also be applied to an act of random and extreme violence, hence Lister in Red Dwarf declaring 'lets get out there a t**t it!' when the Polymorph sucks out all his fear.

People are overharsh to GW employees, but the guy was kind of a moron. You're facebook is far from private. In fact it's specifically designed not to be. Most jobs will check your myspace and facebook these days before hiring you.

The moral of the story? Be nicer to GW employees, they're there to sell you crap and don't talk about people on SOCIAL NETWORKING SIGHTS, they are not private.

Yeah, especially if you call at a woman...

That's a slam-dunk Sexual Harrassment case that'll instantly end your career.

Lanrak wrote:Hi all.
I suppose my experiance of diciplinary procedures may be different to other areas of employment.
(I work in manufacturing, engineering specificaly.)
The ONLY way an employee can be 'fired' (instant dismissal,) is for gross neglegance, or commiting an eligal act on premises.(Assault- theft etc.)
For less severe offences there is verbal -written -final warning procedures .

So for not meeting sales targets , a verbal warnings followed by written then a final warning would seem more fair than instant dismissal.IMO.

And thankfully on the shop floor, swearing is the norm, (its a great way to relive stress ,to shout abuse at offending objects.)And all name calling is done face to face (some times nose to nose,) and so is dealt with there and then.

STRESS
'... the confusion and tension wrought on the human body when the brain has to overide the basic desire to choke the living daylights out of some GIT that desperatley deserves it ! '

PS I thought a pregnant fish was spelt with a A not an I ?

TTFN
Lanrak.

P.S
Is it me or are the British blessed with lots more swear words than the Americans ?

You are quite correct as far as UK employment law goes, but the US is different.

This is not a surprising situation at all. GW has had sales targets for years now, and got benefits or disciplines for hitting or missing them. This might just be the first time you heard of it, and the employees should not have told you about it in the first place.

They are in a sales environment, too bad they don't get paid much more than minimum wage.