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anticitizen013 wrote:Could just as well use pieces of paper that say SPACE MARINE on them.

You probably say this to make a point, but the Rogue Trader book actually comes with a couple pages in the back of counters for the game that are just little paper squares with "Marine" and "Ork" written on them.

I'm tempted to bring a whole army of them to a GT as they're official GW product.

Haha really? I started playing in 2nd edition, so I didnt know that... but yes youre right I said that to make a point

LunaHound wrote:
Why though? why do people hate unpainted models? I mean is it lacking the realism to what we fantasize the plastic soldier men to be?

In the end miniature wargaming is about aesthetics. If you don't care about the visual spectacle of the game then you might as well be playing a traditional wargame with cardboard counters.

I NEVER play in public with unpainted lead. It's simply something I will not do. I consider it to be a matter of self respect. However I honestly don't care what others do. It's not my place to dictate that they follow my personal values when it comes to painting. A strong case could be made that my stuff looks even better when it's on the table with a "greay and silver legion".

TR

I've still never fielded an unpainted model. I've always fielded proxies or altered my army list.

There is nothing wrong with fielding unpainted models, but it is just not something I choose to do.

Trench-Raider wrote:In the end miniature wargaming is about aesthetics. If you don't care about the visual spectacle of the game then you might as well be playing a traditional wargame with cardboard counters.

Is it? I thought it was about crushing my enemies, seeing them driven before me, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

Personally, I only chose GW's games because of market penetration, not out of any great love of their aesthetics. I seriously dislike the (iconic) space marine's appearance.

I NEVER play in public with unpainted lead. It's simply something I will not do. I consider it to be a matter of self respect. However I honestly don't care what others do. It's not my place to dictate that they follow my personal values when it comes to painting. A strong case could be made that my stuff looks even better when it's on the table with a "greay and silver legion".

And yes - people have different opinions on this. Well-painted armies are a joy to behold, and a lot more fun to move around the tabletop. But for play-testing a particular build, who wants to sink many hours into painting a unit that you'll end up shelving anyway?

Personally, I only chose GW's games because of market penetration, not out of any great love of their aesthetics. I seriously dislike the (iconic) space marine's appearance.

Fair enough.
But I'm talking about generalities here not specifics. I'm refering to the overall hobby of miniature wargaming and not the mythical "GW hobby". So when I talk about aesthetics, I'm not specificly refering to GW's models.

for play-testing a particular build, who wants to sink many hours into painting a unit that you'll end up shelving anyway?

That's what proxies are for.

TR

Indeed. For once I am in agreement with Trenchie. Beware of low flying Horsemen folks...

Proxying is how I used to asses whether I could use a unit or not. To spend X amount of money on something, and then just shelve it is incredibly wasteful.

Then I got a job and just sort of bought what I wanted for a while. THen I went back to planning things but this time theory hammering in my head how I might fit a new unit into my force, or making informed decision based on how my latest defeat came to pass.

However, I try not to field unpainted models, unless I am currently collecting my force. I try to stick to 'paint as I buy' but then I get all over excited about my new list, by whatevers left, and field it. So every now and then my force will be a work in progress.

But an entire horde of unpainted models? Not for a few years now.

MagickalMemories wrote:I think it's silly, personally, to even CARE if the OTHER guy's models are painted or not.

As long as they're assembled, so you can see what he's playing, that's enough to know what unit it is, etc.

Eric

I disagree. As has been pointed out, if you want to do that, why not just get some cardboard counters? Because it's an improvement over the cardboard to have models, it's a further improvement to have painted minis, it's a further improvement to have nice terrain, etc. I can field multiple completely painted, 1850, ork armies, and I've never fielded anything unpainted for them. The first time I fielded them was for a local RT, at 1750. Ditto with my Space Marines, which I've had since I was like 15, when the game came out. I'm not expecting Golden Deamon standard by any means, but a coat of paint says to me that my opponent is serious about the game. I also understand people who haven't been playing that long having unpainted armies, but I also know some very lazy people who have been fielding the same Legions of Black Primer death for years.

anticitizen013 wrote:Kinda off topic... but personally I HATE playing with unpainted models. Theres just something about it that gets me. Plus playing with painted models looks so much better! Eye candy is important! Though I can understand if youre new and you want to kill your friends, thats perfectly understandable. But I still think the utmost effort should be taken to paint ones army. But that's just my opinion... hehe.

Yes!

Platuan4th wrote:

anticitizen013 wrote:Could just as well use pieces of paper that say SPACE MARINE on them.

You probably say this to make a point, but the Rogue Trader book actually comes with a couple pages in the back of counters for the game that are just little paper squares with "Marine" and "Ork" written on them.

I'm tempted to bring a whole army of them to a GT as they're official GW product.

I've got some I could sell you. I wonder if you make photocopies if that's counterfeiting minis or not?!?!? IIRC, there's a little thingie saying that it's completely legal to make copies of those pages for personal use. Sounds like a real crowd pleaser at a GT. You could REALLY abuse the TLOS rules. Just play orks, and then you can move the out from behind the wrinkle in the table you've hidden them behind, and annihilate your opponent. It's like the new broken list, RT cardboard counter orks!

Trench-Raider wrote:
I NEVER play in public with unpainted lead. It's simply something I will not do. I consider it to be a matter of self respect. However I honestly don't care what others do. It's not my place to dictate that they follow my personal values when it comes to painting. A strong case could be made that my stuff looks even better when it's on the table with a "greay and silver legion".
TR

Exactly. I also think that once you get into the habit of playing with unpainted minis you have much much less incentive to paint your figures.

Nah. The Counters are not WYSIWYG, unless you fancy playing an army of unarmed Orkses?

For once I am in agreement with Trenchie. Beware of low flying Horsemen folks...

It's bound to happen occasionally. Even a broken clock is right twice a day after all...

TR

Good of you to admit that

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Nah. The Counters are not WYSIWYG, unless you fancy playing an army of unarmed Orkses?

Draw guns on them.

It will be a conversion.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Nah. The Counters are not WYSIWYG, unless you fancy playing an army of unarmed Orkses?

Draw guns on them.

It will be a conversion.

Oh god, so if I draw my own space marines on GW paper, does that count as from scratch?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Good of you to admit that

I think I'll be generous and let you enjoy that moment...

JD21290 wrote:i tried sprue painting, but that just means alot of extra work going back and cleaning up the paint job afterwards.

True, but I found sprue painting alot faster than painting after assembly. That being said, I usually assemble before painting, so I can play with my toys sooner....

BigToof wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Nah. The Counters are not WYSIWYG, unless you fancy playing an army of unarmed Orkses?

Draw guns on them.

It will be a conversion.

Oh god, so if I draw my own space marines on GW paper, does that count as from scratch?

Nah. Thats Copyright Infringement that.

Naughty!

LunaHound wrote:
Why though? why do people hate unpainted models? I mean is it lacking the realism to what we fantasize the plastic soldier men to be?

For me, it's just a matter of style. why do people hate proxied armies? What wrong with using bottle caps and peanuts? if all my peanuts are boys and all my bottle caps are nobs, it's easy to tell what I'm doing right?

It's a matter of style.

Platuan4th wrote:

anticitizen013 wrote:Could just as well use pieces of paper that say SPACE MARINE on them.

You probably say this to make a point, but the Rogue Trader book actually comes with a couple pages in the back of counters for the game that are just little paper squares with "Marine" and "Ork" written on them.

I'm tempted to bring a whole army of them to a GT as they're official GW product.

Go ahead Platuan4th, but don't be surprised if you get turned out/away due to lack of painted models.. While it was official in Rogue trader days, it isn't now.

What about cutting out the little pictures of space marines on the boxes?

Unpainted figures spoils the look of the game. The odd unpainted unit is ok if it's a genuine work in progress, but I'm not playing someone who continually fields an entirely unpainted army, it doesn't respect the game, your opponent or the hobby in general.

Furthermore, all metal/plastic figures can be difficult to make out, they all look the same, things are easier to corrently identify when painted, but leaving everything unpainted can be misleading.

Leaving *lead* figures unpainted is plain rude. It is toxic so unnecessary handling should be minimised.

I think you'll get a better game from someone who takes the time to fully paint their army. It shows enthusiasm, interest, passion and perhaps a more mature approach towards the game rather than "zOMG I got all these figures and I just want to play all at once and win now!!!".

BigToof wrote:[ As has been pointed out, if you want to do that, why not just get some cardboard counters?

I have no problem playing with/against cardboard counter.

I love to paint, therefor my armies are all painted. I like beautiful terrain and table. I do love to see beautiful models. But this thread was about one guy wanting to play with his friend, with an unfinished army.

What will his friend say? "Cool let's play" or "I'm not going to play toy soldier with you 'cause your toys aren't painted".

Whe are not talking about GT here...

two_heads_talking wrote:Go ahead Platuan4th, but don't be surprised if you get turned out/away due to lack of painted models.. While it was official in Rogue trader days, it isn't now.

I think someone missed some irony.

Platuan4th wrote:

two_heads_talking wrote:Go ahead Platuan4th, but don't be surprised if you get turned out/away due to lack of painted models.. While it was official in Rogue trader days, it isn't now.

I think someone missed some irony.

My comparing then to now, shows I followed the irony, you didn't follow the sarcasm..

Hooray for "the intarnetz"?

The game to me is more than just a war game. It's a hobby wargame. So, having said that, I much prefer to play with people that are into the hobby aspect and not JUST the wargame aspect. I just don't get as much out of a game of 40k, when my opponent plops down a bunch of plastic. I'm not saying that I would never play against one, but I sure wouldn't enjoy it as much.

There is also the aspect of, man I spent hours and hours painting my stuff and this guy can't even take the time to even try to paint?

GG

anticitizen013 wrote:Hooray for "the intarnetz"?

AMEN!!

generalgrog wrote:The game to me is more than just a war game. It's a hobby wargame. So, having said that, I much prefer to play with people that are into the hobby aspect and not JUST the wargame aspect. I just don't get as much out of a game of 40k, when my opponent plops down a bunch of plastic. I'm not saying that I would never play against one, but I sure wouldn't enjoy it as much.

There is also the aspect of, man I spent hours and hours painting my stuff and this guy can't even take the time to even try to paint?

GG

For real. I mean really with the new washes, all you need to do is prime your models white and give them various washes and youre done. Takes like 3 minutes to paint an army

two_heads_talking wrote:

anticitizen013 wrote:Hooray for "the intarnetz"?

AMEN!!

Hehe, no matter how good you are at the internet, you'll mess up sometimes! (Not directed at you, just in general).

EDIT because I'm blind and don't know how to type

anticitizen013 wrote:EDIT because I'm blind and don't know how to type

Damn those fat inaccurate sausages known as fingers!

I dont mind playing my friends if their models were unpainted, i would like them to be primed at least though, but as many have said, a well painted army is very eye-catching and will make some passers by (If you are playing in public) stop and stare in awe

I talked to some guys this weekend about a cool concept they've got for a Blood Bowl league with regard to painted miniatures. There's no penalty for playing in the league with unpainted minis, but if your entire team is painted, you get an extra Fan Factor to add to your team. Nice little bonus - not too overpowering, but a nice incentive to get things painted up.

Platuan4th wrote:

anticitizen013 wrote:EDIT because I'm blind and don't know how to type

Damn those fat inaccurate sausages known as fingers!

Theyre usually quite dexterous... honest! I've been painting since 8am so maybe theyre running out of steam... or sausagocity. Whatever that is.

I remember when I used to play in the store (back when I was a wee lad, haha) and people would ask to inspect my models and were very impressed with them. That made me feel good about myself (self esteem +2) and helped inspire me to paint more. I'm fairly certain no one is going to pick up an unpainted model and tell you good job (unless of course it's super converted/sculpted etc... but that's a special case that doesn't count haha).